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Taipan Leviathan
Dark Star Confederation Magnum Opus.
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Posted - 2009.05.10 16:45:00 -
[31]
Heve been playing around with them today.
Best thing they do is bumping youw ith a Deimos and a claymore. They also threathend to wardec evryone mining but that appears to be nothing more then Smacktalk.
--------------------------------------------------- THE BIG BANG: First there was nothing, Then it exploded. |
Taram Caldar
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.10 17:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Taipan Leviathan Heve been playing around with them today.
Best thing they do is bumping youw ith a Deimos and a claymore. They also threathend to wardec evryone mining but that appears to be nothing more then Smacktalk.
Noir. has been contracted to clear Hedion of mining activity. If you wish to make a reasonable profit mining we highly recommend you mine in one of the other nearby systems.
Thank you.
As to 'smacktalk' the only folks smacking seem to be the folks we've been contracted to disrupt.
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.10 18:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Snasty Which system?
I sense something sinister
So yeah OP, pay a merc outfit to harass them back. If you can not afford that then the next time it happens gather the independent miners in the local area to gather the resources
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
Ebolak
Vengeance Asset Relocation Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.10 19:46:00 -
[34]
I went to Hedion yesterday to check it out and mess around with the Noir guys. Every belt is full with asteroids, and next to no one mining it. I just wanted to check out the effectiveness of the bumping but got bored pretty quick, as im not a miner.
Noir are doing a great job of keeping miners out of the system, and its impressive that they can clear out a 1.0 system with only a few guys. Who ever is paying them is getting thier moneys worth imo. They have no problem bumping you way out of range of the asteroids if you are in a retreiver or a hulk. If you are mining in a frigate or a cruiser, with a mwd or ab fitted, just orbit the asteroids and they cant hit you.
I would think it is a perfect situation for newbie miners that want to mine in a 1.0 system that is one jump from Amarr.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.10 19:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ebolak I went to Hedion yesterday to check it out and mess around with the Noir guys. Every belt is full with asteroids, and next to no one mining it. I just wanted to check out the effectiveness of the bumping but got bored pretty quick, as im not a miner.
Noir are doing a great job of keeping miners out of the system, and its impressive that they can clear out a 1.0 system with only a few guys. Who ever is paying them is getting thier moneys worth imo. They have no problem bumping you way out of range of the asteroids if you are in a retreiver or a hulk. If you are mining in a frigate or a cruiser, with a mwd or ab fitted, just orbit the asteroids and they cant hit you.
I would think it is a perfect situation for newbie miners that want to mine in a 1.0 system that is one jump from Amarr.
If you want to see how effective the tactic of using frigates (or noobcorps) is, I suggest you check our kb. :)
We are deadly serious about the execution of this contract and will use every legitimate means at our disposal to deliver on the service our customer is paying us for.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Ebolak
Vengeance Asset Relocation Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.10 20:13:00 -
[36]
I dont doubt your seriousness. I did mine there for a bit in a frigate and a cruiser, to see if it was effective against bumping. I guess I got bored and stopped mining before you guys would suicide me.
Anyway, good work on locking down the system :)
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.10 21:46:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 10/05/2009 21:51:02 Oh man ... this cracks me up ...
I've mined in Amarr in my Bestower AFK ... though not recently ...
It's not like this is Caldari space where there aren't plenty of relatively quiet systems.
What I don't understand ... is why there is any ore left.
I mean ... if someone is paying some Merc's to keep the other miners out ... you'd think THEY would be mining it.
Of course ... what you want to do ... if someone IS mining this system ... then THEY are the ones who've contracted the Merc's (if THEY are the only ones being left alone) SO - hire some Merc's to war dec THEM.
If you care ...
Ah ... this still cracks me up ... I can't believe that you couldn't just make more money mining the system until it's empty and then moving elsewhere than by adding the payments for the Merc's to your overhead ...
I'll bet this really started as some kind of an ego contest ... that turned into a turf war ... this can't be about making money.
"Oh my gosh! We'll go broke if we have to make TWO jumps! Let's hire Merc's!"
Oh well ... whatever ...
HA! HA! I just had a thought ... for those of you like the OP who are mad - think about it this way - the Merc's are screwing you by not letting you mine - but the guy who hired them is screwing HIMSELF by paying for them!!!!
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Starbuck Kalithdor
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Posted - 2009.05.11 01:13:00 -
[38]
Well they're not doing that great a job, i stripped 2 belts in there earlier.
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Marguerite Antiki
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Posted - 2009.05.11 02:39:00 -
[39]
Curious - couldnt you set ya ship to orbit a container in space around a group of roids so you couldnt get bumped. IE set yourself to orbit at 1500km near 5 roids. That way if you get bumped the orbit function will move you back into place.
Would that work ?
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.11 03:52:00 -
[40]
This is a fun thread to read.
Noir, kudos for taking on a new and interesting type of contract with some new tactics.
Miners - you're going to have to think outside the box here. I remember when Goons decided no-one could mine in Empire in a hulk and almost made good on the promise. A bunch of miners got together and sorted out some contractors for a war-dec or two. Don't take it as griefing (which I firmly believe it's not, so don't bother wasting the GMs time), take it as a challenge to work out a different way of dealing with it.
I love the idea of a mining competition in the system, that's just too funny. Noir trying to keep people out, while the system steadily fills up. All we'd then is for Goons to declare another jihad and the system would be definitively cleaned for a little while - but maybe they're too busy right now for that sort of thing.
On another totally random tangent: Maybe the group that's hired Noir are campaigning against Macro miners? I don't know enough about that system to know if they were active there. If this is the case then it's a worthwhile cause, even if a few innocents are affected for a short time.
______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University.
Now Recruiting. |
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 05:13:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Taipan Leviathan They also threathend to wardec evryone mining but that appears to be nothing more then Smacktalk.
Noir.'s version of smacktalk confirmed ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Psiri
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Posted - 2009.05.11 05:16:00 -
[42]
ITT joke mercs
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 05:33:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Psiri ITT joke mercs
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Mike Seary
Minmatar Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.05.11 07:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Luiticus Edited by: Luiticus on 09/05/2009 01:00:45 So I looked at the market for the system with the best buyer price for standard veld in my region, go to this 1.0 system and find this corp has been contracted to harass any miner in the system till they leave. At first I just laughed it off, carried on mining and ignored their local spamming. But then they started bouncing my ship away (by ramming it with theirs) from the belts until my lasers were out of range, by the time I decided to quit I was being followed instantly to every belt so I must of been the last miner left to put up with it. Basically really annoying and feels like an exploit, I could deal with something like this in low sec, indeed even getting blown up in low sec, but in a 1.0 system??
I recommend mining somewhere else then....
PROTIP: they are not griefing. They are doing their job.
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Taipan Leviathan
Dark Star Confederation Magnum Opus.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 10:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde
Originally by: Taipan Leviathan They also threathend to wardec evryone mining but that appears to be nothing more then Smacktalk.
Noir.'s version of smacktalk confirmed
I love it how you dont post your losses on your KB.
Good thing we have battleclinic
Still nice kd ratio. --------------------------------------------------- THE BIG BANG: First there was nothing, Then it exploded. |
Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 10:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Taipan Leviathan
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde
Originally by: Taipan Leviathan They also threathend to wardec evryone mining but that appears to be nothing more then Smacktalk.
Noir.'s version of smacktalk confirmed
I love it how you dont post your losses on your KB.
Good thing we have battleclinic
Still nice kd ratio.
If you know of a kill not posted, contact Alekseyev Karrde with specifics.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Ohoi Camsi
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Posted - 2009.05.11 11:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka This is a fun thread to read.
Noir, kudos for taking on a new and interesting type of contract with some new tactics.
Indeed, i havent seen anything like this before. Still I have to agree with some people, that mining is still possible and profitable still. Big rocks over there. Just get a decent buffer on your ship in case they decide to suicide you, although they cant afford to suicide too many ships for loss of sec.
I will be defo visiting the system later this evening for some adventurous mining :)
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Taram Caldar
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 12:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Taipan Leviathan
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde
Originally by: Taipan Leviathan They also threathend to wardec evryone mining but that appears to be nothing more then Smacktalk.
Noir.'s version of smacktalk confirmed
I love it how you dont post your losses on your KB.
Good thing we have battleclinic
Still nice kd ratio.
Every ship loss with a player on the kill is posted. If you know of one that is missed let us know. We pride ourselves on the accuracy of our killboard.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.05.11 12:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk HA! HA! I just had a thought ... for those of you like the OP who are mad - think about it this way - the Merc's are screwing you by not letting you mine - but the guy who hired them is screwing HIMSELF by paying for them!!!!
Perhaps not.
As an analog, consider the case of farmers who are paid by the government to keep their fields fallow for a year. You might say that the government is screwing themselves by not using that "rent" to grow their own crops in the field, but that's missing the point.
Your assumption is that Noir's client hired them in order to have little or no competition in mining the belts in Hedion. That is one possible situation for this to be worth their while, and quite a likely one, but by no means the only one. For example, they might have ulterior motives in reducing the overall amount of ore taken from Hedion; perhaps trying to introduce a local price spike in minerals, or trying to push lots of miners to another nearby system and thus increase pressure on a rival, or clear out Hedion and wait for the vacuum effect when the contract comes to an end, etc.
One thing I think it's safe to say, is that the client who is paying for this knows exactly what he's asked for any exactly how much he's paying for it, and has decided it's worth his while. Assuming that he's voluntarily screwing himself by hiring mercs for something that doesn't benefit him is... odd.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.05.11 13:49:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Luiticus But then they started bouncing my ship away (by ramming it with theirs) from the belts until my lasers were out of range, by the time I decided to quit I was being followed instantly to every belt so I must of been the last miner left to put up with it.
Orbit a fixed object, such as an asteroid or an Orca and the bump tactic pretty much becomes useless to your opponents (unless they get several ships out and try to bump you in unison) as your ship stays in a constant state of motion (and thus corrects their bumps) unless the object your orbiting is removed, either by leaving, popping or being destroyed, at which point you just assign another object to orbit. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Joshua Lonestar
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:38:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Joshua Lonestar on 11/05/2009 14:38:29 I'm not sure what my opinion is on it. Mixed feelings, but I certainly wont go all nerdrage on either side.
The mercs are doing a job. Simple as that. They do it for the money, not because they want to grief people, not because they hate anyone, strictly business.
I almost want to march my hulk out there and mine just to give them someone to bump. But, its a bit far and more time then I want to spend for the annoyance factor.
Whoever is doing it really doesnt stand to gain much I wouldnt think. They arent mining it themselves, so they dont get the ore. The market probably wont be affected all that much from 1 system going unmined, the miners will just shift to other systems. Unless this is just a test run to see if its possible to lock down a system.....
From a miners point I can see it as griefing, even if the devs say its not.
All in all, I like it. I've shifted systems enough for various reasons that if a group had a contract to lock down a system I'd rather they just told me so I could move rather then waste my time bumping me. But I do find the whole contract to stop miners to be an interesting diversion from the norm.
And to the other miners, well tough. It isnt like mining is filled with danger and excitement. Think of it as a much needed break from an otherwise boring job.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk HA! HA! I just had a thought ... for those of you like the OP who are mad - think about it this way - the Merc's are screwing you by not letting you mine - but the guy who hired them is screwing HIMSELF by paying for them!!!!
Perhaps not.
As an analog, consider the case of farmers who are paid by the government to keep their fields fallow for a year. You might say that the government is screwing themselves by not using that "rent" to grow their own crops in the field, but that's missing the point.
Your assumption is that Noir's client hired them in order to have little or no competition in mining the belts in Hedion. That is one possible situation for this to be worth their while, and quite a likely one, but by no means the only one. For example, they might have ulterior motives in reducing the overall amount of ore taken from Hedion; perhaps trying to introduce a local price spike in minerals, or trying to push lots of miners to another nearby system and thus increase pressure on a rival, or clear out Hedion and wait for the vacuum effect when the contract comes to an end, etc.
One thing I think it's safe to say, is that the client who is paying for this knows exactly what he's asked for any exactly how much he's paying for it, and has decided it's worth his while. Assuming that he's voluntarily screwing himself by hiring mercs for something that doesn't benefit him is... odd.
You're assuming the person doing the paying is correct in his evaluation of the situation. I'm assuming that he is not. Yes, there are all kinds of different ways someone might be trying to be clever about this and ... people who think they are being clever NEVER seem to realize they are screwing themselves (while they are doing it) - when in fact they are (which they may come to realize later).
I see no real utility in any of the options you mentioned. There's just so many different systems around Hedion and Amarr space is so thinly mined that I can't imagine any of this making a blip on the market. Now - back when Kernite was hot - there could be a good bit of competition in some of the systems that had Kernite in them since none of them refreshed every day. There I could imagine a real utility in locking out a system to have all the Kernite for yourself. But Veld? There's tons of Veld all over the place and ... one extra jump just isn't going to make that much difference to anyone, especially when there are so many other systems that are one one jump away from Amarr which, as I mentioned yesterday, does of course have belts of it's own.
I went by last night and again just now. Noir was busy last night but there were less than one third of the belts that had been mined out of Veld and those still had quite a bit of Scordite left in them. This morning there were an average of a dozen people in system while I surveyed the belts, mostly transient, but no sign of Noir. There was one guy I saw mining in an Osprey who was bouncing about the belts for each load but that was about it. Another guy had apprently wanted Noir to flip his can but they didn't do it ... so ... I've no idea if they were there before I dropped by or not.
*shrug*
I don't know what the client's reasoning is behind this and I doubt that we'll find out but it's been my experience that - if doing things like this was really a good idea - you'd see it done by lots of people all the time - and I've never seen this before (not that no one else has done it ... but not often enough for it to be common enough for me to have seen it or read about it in the forums).
Now - I can imagine the client having a reason which is important enough to them to do this. But then people do all kinds of stupid things all the time for reasons that are important to them ...
Anyway, we're unlikely to find out why this is being done so the question is probably academic anyway.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.05.11 15:22:00 -
[53]
I think the contracter has much, much isk and is bored to hell.
I think this is an experiment. An interesting one.
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Benzaiten Reverse
Caldari Shokei
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:08:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mike Seary
Originally by: Luiticus Edited by: Luiticus on 09/05/2009 01:00:45 So I looked at the market for the system with the best buyer price for standard veld in my region, go to this 1.0 system and find this corp has been contracted to harass any miner in the system till they leave. At first I just laughed it off, carried on mining and ignored their local spamming. But then they started bouncing my ship away (by ramming it with theirs) from the belts until my lasers were out of range, by the time I decided to quit I was being followed instantly to every belt so I must of been the last miner left to put up with it. Basically really annoying and feels like an exploit, I could deal with something like this in low sec, indeed even getting blown up in low sec, but in a 1.0 system??
I recommend mining somewhere else then....
PROTIP: they are not griefing. They are doing their job.
Its no difference bumping industrial or mining ship, in high sec it should still count it as greefing/harrasing as there is NO WAY you can prevent them from doing it. Getting agresion for bumping would be nice, but hardly implementable and easily exploitable as for (which ship bumped).
If they wardec 1st then be it, you will be able to shoot back when they try.
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 19:22:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Benzaiten Reverse
Its no difference bumping industrial or mining ship, in high sec it should still count it as greefing/harrasing as there is NO WAY you can prevent them from doing it. Getting agresion for bumping would be nice, but hardly implementable and easily exploitable as for (which ship bumped).
If they wardec 1st then be it, you will be able to shoot back when they try.
There is an easy way to prevent us from doing it. Don't mine in Hedion.
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foxxxy69
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Posted - 2009.05.11 20:00:00 -
[56]
well i was thinking it was funny so i went there to mine and they ganked my hulk i have max shields and armour but they killed it befor concord could help :(
2009.05.11 07:25:00
Victim: foxxxy69 Corp: School of Applied Knowledge Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Hulk System: Hedion Security: 1.0 Damage Taken: 4026
Involved parties:
Name: Ender Darklight (laid the final blow) Security: 1.5 Corp: Noir. Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Damage Done: 2545
Name: Erichk Knaar Security: 0.6 Corp: Noir. Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Damage Done: 1481
Name: Taram Caldar Security: -0.7 Corp: Noir. Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Tempest Weapon: 1400mm Carbine Howitzer I Damage Done: 0
Destroyed items:
Small Shield Extender II Strip Miner I, Qty: 2 Cargohold Optimization I, Qty: 2
Dropped items:
Mining Laser Upgrade II, Qty: 2 Veldspar, Qty: 13657 (Cargo) Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Medium Shield Extender II Concentrated Veldspar, Qty: 12499 (Cargo) Strip Miner I
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 20:12:00 -
[57]
foxxxy, you didn't go there to mine, you were mining there every day (pretty much 23/7, near as I can tell) long before our operations began.
Also, you're not allowed to post killmails on the forums. I suggest you edit your post before a mod does. :)
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Takemikazuki
Celrydreahad Finance
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:59:00 -
[58]
I can't believe anyone is labeling this as griefing.
This game need more stuff like this, not less.
Instead of meaningless petitions, find a way to counter the exection of the denial performed by Noir. or find another system to acquire your ores in.
Even if it was a lockdown of an entire constellation (or a region for that matter) I would consider it legit.
It's a simple competition for resources.
You either compete - and succeed, or you compete - and loose, or you simply move your operative assets elswhere to be able to mine in peace.
What's next? Shall i petition the irritating little woodpecker that is eating large chunks of my profits by underbidding me in a certain station?
No of course not. Either I leave that station or I fight back with the resources at my disposal.
You need to understand the concept that the astroids you mine aren't your personal mineral pinatas unless you have the power to defend and define them as so.
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.12 00:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Takemikazuki I can't believe anyone is labeling this as griefing.
This game need more stuff like this, not less.
Instead of meaningless petitions, find a way to counter the exection of the denial performed by Noir. or find another system to acquire your ores in.
Even if it was a lockdown of an entire constellation (or a region for that matter) I would consider it legit.
It's a simple competition for resources.
You either compete - and succeed, or you compete - and loose, or you simply move your operative assets elswhere to be able to mine in peace.
What's next? Shall i petition the irritating little woodpecker that is eating large chunks of my profits by underbidding me in a certain station?
No of course not. Either I leave that station or I fight back with the resources at my disposal.
You need to understand the concept that the astroids you mine aren't your personal mineral pinatas unless you have the power to defend and define them as so.
This ^
Just because someone thought of something new, doesn't immediately make it an exploit. I believe this is what CCP want, people to think and take the game in new directions.
I for one support such lateral thinking, the true consequences of this action will not be miners unable to mine. It will be miners thinking of a new and inovative way to counter this threat. With luck it will turn into a cat and mouse game, as each side refines their tactics. The strong will survive and be better for the experience. The weak will whine about it and fall by the wayside - giving up mining, giving up the system or even giving up the game - it will be their loss.
______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University.
Now Recruiting. |
rofflesausage
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Posted - 2009.05.12 01:02:00 -
[60]
Originally by: foxxxy69 well i was thinking it was funny so i went there to mine and they ganked my hulk i have max shields and armour but they killed it befor concord could help :(
Make an alt on another account (trial will do), and get him to attack your Hulk at the belt. Your alt will get Concorded but Concord will stick around in the belt. This way if you get attacked after, the aggressor pretty much gets insta-popped.
This won't stop high DPS ganks - several ships with a high volley damage will still kill you, but it makes it harder for less people to do so as you don't have to wait for Concord.
Either way I'm not sure if I should faceplam because of Noir bugging miners, or congratulate them on carrying out this unusual contract. Who am I kidding? Congrats on the tears, Noir
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