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Lady Valory
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:02:00 -
[1]
I was checking the market for the last month and then this dawned on me...
With so much isk in the hands of Ebank and other large conglomerates, can't they just buy EVERY t3 ship ever made for like EVER--assuming current rates of production?
If you look at t3 volume in jita, there really isn't more than a few 10s of billions of isk being moved via t3 hulls...
This means quite frankly that we will NEVER see t3 hulls below 500 million isk as with the ISK oversupply, traders can always buy up EVERY t3 hull produced?
I'm not putting a value judgement on this--but my analysis seems correct?
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Jastra
Gallente Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:05:00 -
[2]
if someone starts buying all of them then they become ISK makers surely and there will simply be a greater supply as people look to fill the bottomless pit of need, no ?
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:22:00 -
[3]
They can't buy any of mine.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:19:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/05/2009 12:19:17
It took you so long to realize T3 was doomed to become an oddity rather than an industry ? We knew that since it came up on SiSi and we tried to convince CCP their drop/harvest/whatever rates are abysmally low.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.09 13:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Akita T It took you so long to realize T3 was doomed to become an oddity rather than an industry ? We knew that since it came up on SiSi and we tried to convince CCP their drop/harvest/whatever rates are abysmally low.
Hey, give the slow kids some time..
Forge '07 on Sale
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PublicRelations Kwint
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:41:00 -
[6]
First off, as currently implemented, you'll run into more titans than t3 ships. They're doomed to be rarely flown oddities that are more an indicator of wealth than an actual weapon.
There's this thing called supply and demand. If someone were to try buying all of the hulls up indefinitely, first off the price would balloon but if they persisted even at the skyrocketing prices then this massive profit margin would encourage more and more people to produce them. The higher demand raises prices which in tern raises supply until they equalize. If you attempt to indefinitely buy all of the ships then supply will increase perpetually until it hits some sort of hard limit imposed by game mechanics but we're so far away from that it's not even worth contemplating. Eventually supply would have to meet demand and given the inertia of the system, it would likely overcome it and you would finally see cheap T3. What will actually keep prices high perpetually is the extremely limited interest keeping profits low and thus supply low. Point being, it's not an excess of ISK that means we'll never see cheap T3 hulls, it's an absence of interest in them.
By the way, it wouldn't take EBANK to buy up all the hulls on the market. A few tens of billions really isn't that much ISK. Hell, Kwint Industries could clean them out if there an actual reason to it.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Lord Zarcam
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:05:00 -
[7]
Wealthy traders got that way by buying smart and selling at a profit. There's nothing smart about current T-3 prices. And not enough demand to sell at a profit.
In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream! |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:19:00 -
[8]
People who are serious about flying T3 and PvPing in it will band together and sort it out for themselves as my PvP corp has. We don't need to buy them, they are produced as a byproduct of where we live and where we hunt. We'll sell them as bespoke items to friends that ask for them, but most of our supply will be used to equip us in combat.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bad Bobby People who are serious about flying T3 and PvPing in it will band together and sort it out for themselves as my PvP corp has. We don't need to buy them, they are produced as a byproduct of where we live and where we hunt. We'll sell them as bespoke items to friends that ask for them, but most of our supply will be used to equip us in combat.
As a producer of polymers for a group who does exactly the same thing as the above I concur. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2009.05.10 02:57:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Shadarle on 10/05/2009 02:57:35
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 09/05/2009 12:19:17
It took you so long to realize T3 was doomed to become an oddity rather than an industry ? We knew that since it came up on SiSi and we tried to convince CCP their drop/harvest/whatever rates are abysmally low.
Isn't that a good thing, not a bad thing tho? CCP makes everything too easy. About time we got something that only I can afford
Oh and btw, should we take a poll to see if I should buy up every T3 hull on the market for the next week? Might be interesting to see the market effects of it...
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Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.10 05:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 10/05/2009 02:57:35
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 09/05/2009 12:19:17
It took you so long to realize T3 was doomed to become an oddity rather than an industry ? We knew that since it came up on SiSi and we tried to convince CCP their drop/harvest/whatever rates are abysmally low.
Isn't that a good thing, not a bad thing tho? CCP makes everything too easy. About time we got something that only I can afford
Oh and btw, should we take a poll to see if I should buy up every T3 hull on the market for the next week? Might be interesting to see the market effects of it...
Could be interesting - a little subsidy to the frontiersmen bringing home T3...
@ the OP - yes, at the moment it's entirely possible that the wealthier in MD could soak the T3 hulls off the market. It's also quite obvious they aren't. Buying high to sell higher (IE market manipulation) only works when you have a decent grasp on the supply - at the moment the supply hasn't even begun to be tapped, it looks to me like the majority of the high-sec isk printing machine took one glance at wormholes, snubbed their noses and went back to generating a reliable 20-30 mil/hour base. Snatching up the existing hulls - both validating their price and driving it higher - would reinforce wormhole ventures and encourage their growth. While this might be a good investment for EVE general public, the individual ROI may not even be a positive one.
I say do it, because anything that brings the MD regular's wealth down closer to mine brings me one step closer to winning EVE.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2009.05.10 07:01:00 -
[12]
meow
Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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Kat Bandeis
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.10 07:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lady Valory ...can't they just buy EVERY t3 ship ever made for like EVER--assuming current rates of production?
Yes... yes they can. In every society, though, the peasant class has to have something to aspire to. So EVE and the market aspires to make us little folks believe that we, too, can have one of these elitist ***** enlargers, too... :)
Social goodness, baby, social goodness. :)
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.05.10 07:15:00 -
[14]
Quote:
It took you so long to realize T3 was doomed to become an oddity rather than an industry ? We knew that since it came up on SiSi and we tried to convince CCP their drop/harvest/whatever rates are abysmally low.
It's that line of thought that stuffed up invention.
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PublicRelations Kwint
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.10 07:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shadarle
Oh and btw, should we take a poll to see if I should buy up every T3 hull on the market for the next week? Might be interesting to see the market effects of it...
I fully support it. If we could get a dozen people to sign on we'd cause one hell of a jump in prices short-term but the increased production and interest would likely lead to substantially lower long-term prices and that means they might actually be cheap enough for me to justify buying one to my self. It's win-win, you get be e-famous for throwing your money around and the rest of us get cheaper T3 ships in the long run.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.10 07:28:00 -
[16]
I actually put heavy consideration into doing this with some EBANK cash. However I then decided the risk was too high. It was highly likely that CCP would hear many people claiming they were too expensive and change the drop-rate at which time prices would drop like lead and we would be left with stocks we needed to sell at 3 or 4 digit percentage losses.
For a quick buy and resell this may have worked but requires online time (rather than just stockpiling and letting others push the prices up) and online time is something I don't have to devote to this.
That's about it, the reason I didn't nag the board to let me blow some cash on T3 wares. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.10 08:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ricdic 3 or 4 digit percentage losses.
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.10 08:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ricdic 3 or 4 digit percentage losses.
He's talking about the losses when he falls asleep while doing level 4 missions in one.
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Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.10 08:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ricdic 3 or 4 digit percentage losses.
He's talking about the losses when he falls asleep while doing level 4 missions in one.
Bastard |
Yarik Mendel
Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.10 11:03:00 -
[20]
Even at HAC prices, I still wouldn't fly one.
A Hurricane or Harbinger can still own any T3 cruiser. If you think otherwise, send me a mail and we'll try it out.
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2009.05.10 11:17:00 -
[21]
If you buy up all t3 hulls the market will notice and fill that gap. Now you're sitting there with a bigger market than when you started, same suply and in order to get monopoly you bought all your supply at a bad price. This is offset by the few hulls you sell at the higher price you would set but how many % do you think you could raise the price of something which sole flaw is it's high price? In the sum up you would turn a loss.
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Telinturco
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Posted - 2009.05.10 11:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Yarik Mendel Even at HAC prices, I still wouldn't fly one.
A Hurricane or Harbinger can still own any T3 cruiser. If you think otherwise, send me a mail and we'll try it out.
A legion has better resists, way more EHP, does more laser damage at 50% greater range and can even be made neigh unjammable to boot. Oh yeah, and it's a hell of a lot faster than a Harby.
Harby: 5 Medium Drones granting slightly higher DPS
Legion: Domination in every other category.
Legion wins.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.10 12:21:00 -
[23]
Oddly enough, you know what role the T3 ships fit best right now?
Farming sleepers.
Ohh the Irony. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2009.05.10 19:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jotobar If you buy up all t3 hulls the market will notice and fill that gap. Now you're sitting there with a bigger market than when you started, same suply and in order to get monopoly you bought all your supply at a bad price. This is offset by the few hulls you sell at the higher price you would set but how many % do you think you could raise the price of something which sole flaw is it's high price? In the sum up you would turn a loss.
This is only true if production is not actually a problem and demand was the choke point.
If buying up all the T3 hulls causes a major ramp-up in production then that means that the current T3 production process is working perfectly. It means that supply & demand is in effect and people just don't feel its worth it to produce or harvest more at current prices. If, on the other hand, buying up all those ships did drastically increase the price as production couldn't keep up then you would be proving the production process has a flaw somewhere.
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Power Sauce
Kenzzoku
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Posted - 2009.05.10 20:38:00 -
[25]
If you want to generate the most whines for very little isk and effort; buy all the best pve subsystems for the Tengu.
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Da Death
Minmatar Relentless Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.12 14:10:00 -
[26]
To buy all t3 ships is a bad investment
* When buying them, you might have the power over market/price for some little time until someone else throws a few t3 ships on the market and prices starting falling again.
* Because prices are falling you have 2 options: Buy the new t3 ships from market again (oh crap....) or start selling your t3 fleet asap to protect yourself from a greater loss.
cheers! á Curse Absolution Prorator Impel T2 Mods/Drones/Ammo Manufacturer
Since 2003. |
Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.05.12 14:19:00 -
[27]
I just bought ALL veldspar ingame!
*looks at Amarr market*
Damn you Chribba! ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2009.05.12 14:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ricdic It was highly likely that CCP would hear many people claiming they were too expensive and change the drop-rate at which time prices would drop like lead and we would be left with stocks we needed to sell at 3 or 4 digit percentage losses.
Good choice, IMHO. CCP intervention is exactly why I'm not touching T3.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compressionexpansion! WTF? |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.12 14:33:00 -
[29]
Those who risk nothing gain nothing. Invest 10B in buying them all, relist them for twice the price and you only need to sell half of them to go even (almost). The rest is just pure profit, no matter if CCP increase the droprate or not.
That said, good look to any resellers daring to do the market thing.
Win a Tempest Tribal Issue for 10M ISK |
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Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.12 14:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Confuzer I just bought ALL veldspar ingame!
*looks at Amarr market*
Damn you Chribba!
...
I think you really do get his attention when you invoke his name...
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