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Quixis
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Posted - 2009.05.13 02:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
I guess I disagree with this. They are excellent support vessels since they cannot be nueted or jammed. The problem is that the price is so high, no one is willing to use them in front line combat in that role. I see them in gank mails more often than anything, which is not the role they are supposed to fill I don't think.
Since when could they not be neuted?
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Tibi
Zoners
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Posted - 2009.05.13 05:46:00 -
[32]
They can be neuted, but a well fitted mom will not be effected by it unless a ****LOAD of neuts is used. (****load > 60)
T. * |
aldarrin
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Posted - 2009.05.13 07:10:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tibi They can be neuted, but a well fitted mom will not be effected by it unless a ****LOAD of neuts is used. (****load > 60)
T.
8 Heavy Neuts drains cap at the rate of 200 units / second (600 * 8 / 24). It'll take a while to burn through those massive capacitors, but there's not a ship in the game that can ignore 200 cap / sec drain. And that's just one neuting BS.
60 is excessive actually, at that's not knocking out all cap in 3 cycles (I used a Wyvern for reference btw). -- Flame on. |
aldarrin
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Posted - 2009.05.13 07:14:00 -
[34]
Speaking of capacity, it would be nice if motherships got a reduction in capacitor usages from remote reps / cap transfers. That would make them very effective at logistics.
Or you could make it absorb (not negate, the MS gets the damage instead of say a pod next to it) the damage of pilots in fleet at very short range (1km?). That would make it easier to grab a replacement ship out of the bay. It'd be too exploitable though. -- Flame on. |
Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.05.13 07:20:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tekki Sandan Today 5 Razor motherships where taken down.
welp~ -------------------------------------
CCP, make me a winner. |
Tibi
Zoners
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Posted - 2009.05.13 10:12:00 -
[36]
Thanks for help ald :) * |
Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.05.13 13:27:00 -
[37]
Mom's have their place but should be looked in to.
My main concern is the cost.. they really shouldn't be costing more then a 1/3 of todays prices.. and the damned thing can't dock.
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Professor Perplex
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Posted - 2009.05.13 13:43:00 -
[38]
stop reading at ex*****ve :D
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Tekki Sandan
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 12:26:00 -
[39]
stay on topic please -_-
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Bassai Sho
Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.24 22:26:00 -
[40]
I like the "regroup" idea bringing people from other systems, it needs to use fuel like a titan and also strontium. But CCP dont read these anymore. Motherships are pointless these days to be fair. I mean ganking stuff on jump becons is a pretty damn limited role!!
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Shpuntik
Invicta. Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.25 17:39:00 -
[41]
Every MS I seen killed who had a remote ECM burst and got caught died to use them effect you have to align use it then warp and by the time you do that you will be bumped or have a cyno lit on top of you and bumped. Carriers and Mothership aren't there for DPS they are support and logistics ships and this is what they focus on.
They can't be lowered in price as they are meant to be a sort of elite ship not one every boy and his mother can use straight away. I would like the hic focused point changed so that when pointed the ship can't jump out which means to stop it warping you have to bump it means it would take more skill to kill them and making them not as overpowered as they were but makes them able to surivive bit better. I would like to see a cap increase in them as in the past neut moms was only way to stop them jumping out so increasing wouldn't be much of problem now. ---InViCtA---
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Onyc Tolip
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Posted - 2009.06.11 00:31:00 -
[42]
Being able to fit up to 5 warfare links is awesome. I personally don't think a mothership whould be encouraged to be on the front lines. thats a Titan's role. The MOMs should be fleet leaders, the center of all the behind the scenes things in a battle. The titan is a massive front line juggernaut. I'd like to see most of the combat related bonuses(besides its perfectly justified massive tank) forgotten about and really distinguish it from the titan as a fleet leader.
Possibilities: a full 8 high slots(it is a super cap) - 3 +1 link per lvl gives you 8 with max skills, if you wanna go that way
an SMA that can hold more than 4 battleships and a misc tackler or two
Clone vat bay fix. maybe better capacity, maybe just being able to put implanted clones in and out.
Remote repping in my experience is good at tanking other caps and repairing outposts. Even most battle ships in FLEET battle, if you get called out, you're a goner. quickly.
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King Dave
The Glenn Quagmire Finishing School for Young Ladies Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.06.11 08:07:00 -
[43]
Motherships do have a role. (Carriers and mothership were first implemented as anti-battleship) They do however suck at this now.
Fixing them:
Make there fighters do more damage, a dd-proof fleet bs can take mom dps for a minute or two before dieing. The fact they only do double the dps of a carrier is a joke. Infact a thanatos with 4 DCU's fitted does comparable dps to all moms bar the nyx. - HIC's are also way to tough for motherships. Which is a bit of a joke! It can take a mom around 5 minutes to kill a super tanked hic. If they hic gets a triage carrier repping it, it is basically invincible, the mom will never get out. - A mothership should be able to compete with dreadnaught damage without the tracking issues.
The Remote ecm burst being changed to a capital ecm burst would be a great idea, would give moms a chance to escape when in crap situations
Give them a range bonus to smartbombs! Simply because i can't afford nice ones!
But seriously the main problem is doing such crap damage. 3 Gankageddons can outdamage a nyx.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 09:40:00 -
[44]
Originally by: King Dave Motherships do have a role. (Carriers and mothership were first implemented as anti-battleship) They do however suck at this now.
Fixing them:
Make there fighters do more damage, a dd-proof fleet bs can take mom dps for a minute or two before dieing. The fact they only do double the dps of a carrier is a joke. Infact a thanatos with 4 DCU's fitted does comparable dps to all moms bar the nyx. - HIC's are also way to tough for motherships. Which is a bit of a joke! It can take a mom around 5 minutes to kill a super tanked hic. If they hic gets a triage carrier repping it, it is basically invincible, the mom will never get out. - A mothership should be able to compete with dreadnaught damage without the tracking issues.
The Remote ecm burst being changed to a capital ecm burst would be a great idea, would give moms a chance to escape when in crap situations
Give them a range bonus to smartbombs! Simply because i can't afford nice ones!
But seriously the main problem is doing such crap damage. 3 Gankageddons can outdamage a nyx.
1. i too want my 10x more expensive BS to do more than 2x damage of cruiser 2. remote repped hic = no disruption = you can warp/cyno out 3. where is your gang? dont tell me you use MS to "solo"
They work ok, IF you know how to use their advantages.
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Endel
Quam Singulari Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.06.11 12:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Endel on 11/06/2009 12:21:33 15% reduction in Triage mode duration per carrier level. Able to use fighters in triage.
There, your super-carrier with more ooomph
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King Dave
The Glenn Quagmire Finishing School for Young Ladies Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.06.11 14:56:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
1. i too want my 10x more expensive BS to do more than 2x damage of cruiser 2. remote repped hic = no disruption = you can warp/cyno out 3. where is your gang? dont tell me you use MS to "solo"
They work ok, IF you know how to use their advantages.
1. The effort into getting a bs compared to a cruiser is nowhere near comparable to that in getting a mothership. 2. A hic can turn his point of for 0.5 second and receive rep from a number of carriers, a mothership pilot would be very lucky to see this for the split second that he has to be able to warp out, if he is not already bumped or pointed by another hic. 3. I don't use my mothership atall at the moment apart from an oversized hauler/ mobile station. If i do happen to have a large amount of backup available for it, i would probably use another ship as it is simply a burden on the gang and requires the gang to babysit it, while ignoring their original objective.
If you think using them in PVP is viable then you are wrong. Apart from hot dropping lone battleships in belts or freighters/ jump freighters at jump bridge beacons. Or just pure epeen boosting and for the sake of using the ship.
They do have other uses however like when you siege pos' you can warp out all the normal caps first, so that the super caps soak up the warp disruptors of the pos.(if you failed to put it into re-inforced!!) Also they are awesome for storing ships as replacements (hello 2.5 million m3 ship capacity) meaning you dont have to dock up in large fleet fights instead of trying to dock for a new ship then lagging, logging, relogging, petitioning to be moved then crying and hitting the power switch. They also mean you get on everyones watch list in large fleet fights if you are ever allowed to be used. Which makes some people feel special inside. (like me) But they really avoid what they were made to be good at, which is killing.
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Xianthar
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 15:49:00 -
[47]
turn it into a true mothership, its there for logistics so give it a logistics role
let it carry ~50 BS in its maintenance array and a clone bay that can hold like ~100 clones. Turn it into a poor mans jump portal / covert insertion ship.
I don't really see a need for moms to be on the front lines of a capital fight.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 16:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: King Dave
1. The effort into getting a bs compared to a cruiser is nowhere near comparable to that in getting a mothership.
It is BS to cruiser is exactly like mothership to carrier. 10x the cost.
Quote:
2. A hic can turn his point of for 0.5 second and receive rep from a number of carriers, a mothership pilot would be very lucky to see this for the split second that he has to be able to warp out, if he is not already bumped or pointed by another hic.
If you cant see opportunity to warp/cyno out then dont fly ms.
Quote:
3. I don't use my mothership atall at the moment apart from an oversized hauler/ mobile station. If i do happen to have a large amount of backup available for it, i would probably use another ship as it is simply a burden on the gang and requires the gang to babysit it, while ignoring their original objective.
We use motherships both as haulers and on field of battle. They work well and need only slight boost, kkthx.
Quote:
If you think using them in PVP is viable then you are wrong. Apart from hot dropping lone battleships in belts or freighters/ jump freighters at jump bridge beacons. Or just pure epeen boosting and for the sake of using the ship.
And how is hotdropping freighters on bridges bad? Its actually decent and no-risk tactic only moms are capable of doing easily. Yes ofc you can bring 15 bombers or 15 bs but this means you need to bring 15x more pilots to do the same job. Also its not the only use for em. I will let you figure out rest.
Quote:
But they really avoid what they were made to be good at, which is killing.
Find me quote from CCP stating that motherships are made for killing. AFAIK they were always "bigger carriers" not "omg monsterkill carriers". |
Sigras
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Posted - 2009.06.11 16:28:00 -
[49]
What about splitting the mothership and carrier into their seperate roles? Each would be stronger than it is in its current role and weaker in the role the other is meant for . . . allow me to explain
********** Thanatos
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: 10% bonus to drone bay capacity per level (New Bonus) 10% bonus to deployed FightersĘ damage per level (up from 5%) 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can deploy 2 additional Fighter per level (up from 1) 200% bonus to Fighter control range
It gains the new bonuses at expense of: 99% reduction in CPU need for Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules 50% bonus to Capital Shield and Armor transfer range per level **********
********** Nyx
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: 100% bonus to Capital Shield and Armor transfer range per level (Up from 50%)
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Projected Electronic Counter Measures modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare 10% bonus to capacitor need of capital armor repair systems per level (New Bonus) 10% bonus to capacitor need of Capital Shield and Armor and Energy Transfer arrays per level when in triage mode (New Bonus)
It gains the new bonuses at expense of: 5% bonus to deployed FightersĘ damage per level Can deploy 3 additional Fighters per level
What do you think?
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Azuse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 17:25:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Azuse on 11/06/2009 17:26:08
Originally by: Endel Edited by: Endel on 11/06/2009 12:21:33 15% reduction in Triage mode duration per carrier level. Able to use fighters in triage.
There, your super-carrier with more ooomph
Personally i always though more along the lines of simply removing the comment & fighter penalties while adding a jump timer (like the titans dd), but as a role bonus. Solving two problems really.
- Sitting as posses assigning fighters
- Weak tank. Huge buffer yes, but when a fleets shooting you you actually need to be able to rep too
Essentially turning it into a front line powerhouse. Superiour to carriers in damage, logistics, disruption (emc), clones and a far better tank/survivability than a carrier but not without cost.
- Moms are surprisingly vulnerable to neuts already, triage makes it twice as vulnerable and cap stability become a challenge (perhaps improve survivability i.e. survival chances? idk)
- Limited fuel capacity, tweak the required fuel cost for triage on moms to keep it balanced?
- Adding a jump timer would commit the pilot to the fight*
Think of it as a panic/support button that serves absolutely no use outside of front-line combat meaning that while it's no good to pos huggers it provides real benefits to those who have taken the time to train up. The fuel use would be ccps control, maybe tied into the carrier skill on moms?
Anyway, just a thought.
N.B. If you're reading this and thinking this won't do anything to help with 100 dread blobs, no single change on any ship will solve that, it's just a problem with cap fights in general. Fuelled by the human desire for minimal risk.
*True, not in the same way the immobility carriers suffer does but then, this ships costs twenty times what a carrier does and being able to warp means little when everyone knows you can't leave system. Besides, if you were ina position that required rr/tank boosts then it's likely you're going to be tackled already, it just give more time to kill the tacklers but it means you can't just use it to quickly save/gank someone then jump away again. -------------------------
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Yon Krum
The Knights Templar Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.06.12 07:47:00 -
[51]
Well, apparently CCP is someplace in the process of re-imagining supercapitals (who knows what ideas are being used), and the mothership--if you were to use the 10x cost for 2x effectiveness--should be boosted by at least 30%.
I've had a variety of ideas regarding this, some of which other posters have illustrated. A "capital ECM burst" module would be one, and fair since motherships are still vulnerable to bumping (as are titans). A range bonus on smartbombs could be another, though while we're adding capital modules we might as well add a "capital smartbomb."
More interesting would be some kind of expansion of the remote ECM burst, into something that affects an area focused around the targeted ship, and breaks locks with a strength of about 50-60. It would be very useful against a sniper group or other remote-rep gang.
Racial versions could also work very well, in the form of area-of-effect turret disruption, sensor dampening, and target painting. Neuting could be possible as well, since we have the void bomb, but I'm unsure about it. Webbing or warp-jamming are too much for a remote, area-of-effect module (and we have interdictors for the latter).
Another possible idea could involve anti-cloak technology of some kind, though I think that belongs more in a smaller hull class (like the interdictor).
Higher damage bonuses for fighters would be reasonable, as would be rep bonuses (or reduced triage times and fuel costs), but in general damage-increasing ideas are best left to the titan as it is revised.
--Krum
--Krum |
Gareth Thomas
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Posted - 2009.06.12 11:36:00 -
[52]
If its not worth the price, then dont build it. If it dies too easily, then dont fly it.
Seriously, if they made it immune to everything, then how on earth would any one destroy it?
We want to move away from "The fleet with the most ships wins", but we also dont want to move towards "The team with the most MS's wins".
The game should revolve around tactics and planning - not who has the biggest pecker. |
Sigras
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Posted - 2009.06.12 15:55:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gareth Thomas If its not worth the price, then dont build it. If it dies too easily, then dont fly it.
Seriously, if they made it immune to everything, then how on earth would any one destroy it?
We want to move away from "The fleet with the most ships wins", but we also dont want to move towards "The team with the most MS's wins".
The game should revolve around tactics and planning - not who has the biggest pecker.
Which is why i like my idea . . . you could bring a MS in 100k from your cap fleet ans rep from range, but it would take planning and intelligence not to get the crap blown out of it as it would not have any defenses of its own. |
Shani Mukantagara
Amarr Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.06.14 17:26:00 -
[54]
-They need better ECM burst -Capital Smart bombs for Supercaps only - Increase ammount of fighters they can controle by 1 per level -Motherships need a big Logistics buff:
Amarr Carrier Skill bounuses: Aeon : 5% bonus to Capital Armor/Remote Armor/Capacitor amount per level : 55% bonus to Capital Energy and Armor transfer range per level(a few extra KM is always usefall imo) : 5% bounus to ALL Active warfare link moduals per level : Is able to use Fighter Drones while Tactical Reconfiguation modules are active
Nyx : : 55% bonus to Capital Shield and Armor transfer range per level : 5% bounus to ALL Active warfare link moduals per level : Is able to use Fighter Drones while Tactical Reconfiguation modules are active : 3% bounus to Fighter Drone damage/volocity per skill level
Wyvern : : 5% bonus to Capital Shield/Remote Sheild/Capacitor amount per level : 55% bonus to Capital Energy and Armor transfer range per level : 5% bounus to ALL Active warfare link moduals per level : Is able to use Fighter Drones while Tactical Reconfiguation modules are active Hell : : Increase the 5% bonus to Shield/Armor rep amount to 10% per level (remote only) : 5% bounus to ALL Active warfare link moduals per level : 2% bounus to Fighter Drone damage/volocity per skill level : Is able to use Fighter Drones while Tactical Reconfiguation modules are active
Capital Skill level (Motherships /Titans:
: ALL resistances are increased by 2% per level (stacks with the current aeon/Wyvern bonus) : Increases jump range by an 1 lightyears per level : Decrease activation time of Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules by 10% per level : Increase cargo/corp hanger by 10% per level : Increase range of Capital Smart bombs by 20% per Level ( base range of a capital smat bomb 7500m ?)
The only less logistical mothership would be the Nyx and realy it shoudl be a damage Mothership after all!
Fix, they become the logistical beasts they where ment to be. Keep them vunrable to dictors a motherships tank is the support fleet its supporting!
My spelling sucks |
Tairon Usaro
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.14 17:55:00 -
[55]
Quote:
I would love the ability for piloted ships to dock with a mothership (until the maintenance bay is full), be jumped into a new system and then undock again. Yes this is a bit like a jump bridge but with a new twist. When docked the pilots would see some sort of station interior, be able to access fittings, corp hangers etc and generally prep for the upcoming battle.
THIS
It would be an awesome freaking cool feature and to my underestanding it appears quite doable to implement such feature. Pilots inside the MS could be handled just as in stations. When the MS logs off or gets destroyed all pilots get booted from the MS, when the MS jumps, Pilots just gets moved to the same system while staying inside the MS. The cloning vet bay just sucks. Switch it to this and it would rock. Also fine for Roqual but with less pilots and only restricted shiptypes.
in terms of PvP it would also be a cool feature having the MS spawning 20 pilots that defend it .... |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.06.14 18:40:00 -
[56]
It's not ****ing possible, learn to read. The server would barf all over itself if you try to put one player entity into another one. It's not a matter of 'oh, just do this', you don't understand jack **** about how eve is coded. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Tairon Usaro
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:00:00 -
[57]
but you certainly do ... lol ! Think about it, its not multiple Pilots staggered its one Pilot flying a mobile Station. So there no syncro problem as in standard multi-player-vehicles as for example in Starwars Galaxy. Much simpler, just a station-like-screen and a forced eject if the MS looses connection.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:36:00 -
[58]
TBH id love just working cloning bay. Remove "clonig bay siege mode" (or w/ever its called). Let me jump from MS to station and vice versa (so implanted body sits in MS). And suddenly MS will add a LOT of mobility to smaller gangs.
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Vector950
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Posted - 2009.06.16 12:59:00 -
[59]
In my opinion in posted below best are:
1. Capital ECM burst working like DD but only disrupt locking on 20-30-40 sec. 2. Remote ECM burst but need more range about 2x more and same disrupt locking on 20-30-40 sec. 3. Give MS bonus on Capital Remote reps so they can rep more effeciency. (about 25% more shield/armor per lvl) 4. Give as logistical cuperacap MS must have bonus on effeciency warfare link bonus per lvl may be about 5% by each race same as command ship.
5. For all supercaps give invul for capacitor drain modules, so they can't be neuted. 6. For all supercaps give resist bonus for capital skill per lvl, so supercaps will be more resistable for enemy fire. 7. And possibly give MS portal, but only for support ships, NOT BS.
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