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Renarla
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Posted - 2009.05.14 04:53:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Renarla on 14/05/2009 04:53:31 Seriously, this has been a long time coming. Lowsec consists entirely of 2 types of people: Gankers Week Old Players
No one serious goes to lowsec to make isk. It has the lowest reward for the highest risk. I would like to write out a long detailed argument about this, but I really can't think of a way to put it any less simply than that. Move all high quality L4 agents to lowsec, move all static plexes to lowsec, move all quality exploration sites to lowsec. Just do something in order to make lowsec more than gankers killing each other. However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs. |
Vesper Link
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Posted - 2009.05.14 04:57:00 -
[2]
seriously?
how many threads is this gonna take for the whining to stop?
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Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.14 13:27:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tranka Verrane on 14/05/2009 13:28:06 See the med-sec thread for a possible solution.
Thinking of starting a Corp? Corp Chief wanted, new players considered, click above for details |
Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Renarla Move all high quality L4 agents to lowsec, move all static plexes to lowsec, move all quality exploration sites to lowsec.
You want Santa to kiss you good night and tuck you in too?
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:32:00 -
[5]
Well highsec is due to get nerfed from quite some time, there is too much reward for close to no risk.
Please resize sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 - Mitnal Lemme go for that pixels and you got a beer - val |
Dr Karsun
Gallente Empire News True Intentions
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:35:00 -
[6]
High sec is nerfed already - no good drops, no faction drops, no bp's, nothing of real value, while in 0.0 you have all that...
Don't argue, high sec is the carebear world, a place for noobs to stay. Eve is a hardcore game, but keep the HARD part out of high sec please. Look at it like on manhattan - it's safe there, the rest of new york is far more dangerous. :)
Not everybody wants to fly in gangs all time long and kill each other.
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Lumari
Caldari White Core. SIRRIUS.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:41:00 -
[7]
lol if they move all the level 4s to low sec thats more targets for the pirates
I hope they do this will be fun :)
Yarr
Lumari
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Syreniac
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:17:00 -
[8]
Level 4's in Lowsec is not the solution, because one (or both) of two things would happen:
- People would just run level 3's, and then in a few months people would be saying that those need to be moved to low sec
- The mission running crowd would just not bother and would move to another game
The solution is to massively (and I mean massively) increase the profitability of low sec missions, and remove the mid range minerals from reprocessed loot (trit and pyer are more than enough for money making purposes). This would mean that mining becomes worth the time and risk in lowsec and the same for the missions.
I agree about the static plexes though.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:29:00 -
[9]
Maybe its not high sec that needs fixing.... -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:46:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Valandril on 14/05/2009 15:46:24
Originally by: Syreniac Level 4's in Lowsec is not the solution, because one (or both) of two things would happen:
- People would just run level 3's, and then in a few months people would be saying that those need to be moved to low sec
- The mission running crowd would just not bother and would move to another game
If they wanna leave to other game, feel free to. To be honest i doubt that there is single player in eve whos only activity in eve is running lvl4 missions (beside isk farmers which must go). And problem with lvl4 in highsec is that you actualy earn MORE isk/h running lvl4s in highsec than by ratting in 0.0 (including overrated faction spawns), and you do it without any risk whatsoever. So if they will farm lvl3 instead thats fine, because there will be more reward lurking in lowsec/0.0 for those who wanna earn real money. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
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Syreniac
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Syreniac Level 4's in Lowsec is not the solution, because one (or both) of two things would happen:
- People would just run level 3's, and then in a few months people would be saying that those need to be moved to low sec
- The mission running crowd would just not bother and would move to another game
If they wanna leave to other game, feel free to. To be honest i doubt that there is single player in eve whos only activity in eve is running lvl4 missions (beside isk farmers which must go). And problem with lvl4 in highsec is that you actualy earn MORE isk/h running lvl4s in highsec than by ratting in 0.0, and you do it without any risk whatsoever. So if they will farm lvl3 instead thats fine, because there will be more reward lurking in lowsec/0.0 for those who wanna earn real money.
Step 1: Watch this forum for a week Step 2: Count the number of threads saying how 'scams need to be fixed' and 'salvage ninjaing is bad!!!111one!' Step 3: Profit!!!!!
You have to remember that eve is a sandbox, and your idea of the perfect sandbox is completely different to a person who runs missions. But it is true that Level 4 missions generate too much in the way of ISK, and either everything needs to be bought in to line with them, or they need to be brought into line with everything else.
Part of the major problem with L4's (and missions in general) is that there is no competition. If you make it so each agent can only have, say, 5 missions active with players at any time, then the overall level of profitability of high sec would go down as people are then in competition with each other for the best agents. Also make it so an individual can only get a certain number of missions a day from each agent. That would fix the problem without eliminating anyone's style of play, as there are enough agents if you include those in lowsec as well as in high, so people would want to go to lowsec for the opportunity for money making activities.
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Syreniac Step 1: Watch this forum for a week Step 2: Count the number of threads saying how 'scams need to be fixed' and 'salvage ninjaing is bad!!!111one!' Step 3: Profit!!!!!
You are speaking to soemone who has been trolling this forums for years, i know how many carebears are here. I also happend to know that they do a lot more than just run lvl4s all day long.
Originally by: Syreniac You have to remember that eve is a sandbox, and your idea of the perfect sandbox is completely different to a person who runs missions. But it is true that Level 4 missions generate too much in the way of ISK, and either everything needs to be bought in to line with them, or they need to be brought into line with everything else.
Part of the major problem with L4's (and missions in general) is that there is no competition. If you make it so each agent can only have, say, 5 missions active with players at any time, then the overall level of profitability of high sec would go down as people are then in competition with each other for the best agents. Also make it so an individual can only get a certain number of missions a day from each agent. That would fix the problem without eliminating anyone's style of play, as there are enough agents if you include those in lowsec as well as in high, so people would want to go to lowsec for the opportunity for money making activities.
So my idea is breaking sandbox because lvl4 missions would require you to go low and ship for bigger profit (a lot more compared to lvl3), but idea to actualy LIMIT theyr gameplay by amount of missions they can run is not violating it ? Choo chooo, here comes cluetrain with wagon of logic!
Lvl5 missions are broken because they are NOT worth it, you cannot really solo them and for couple people reward is not nearly high enought (also there is getting-ganked risk factor). Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Syreniac
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Syreniac Step 1: Watch this forum for a week Step 2: Count the number of threads saying how 'scams need to be fixed' and 'salvage ninjaing is bad!!!111one!' Step 3: Profit!!!!!
You are speaking to soemone who has been trolling this forums for years, i know how many carebears are here. I also happend to know that they do a lot more than just run lvl4s all day long.
Originally by: Syreniac You have to remember that eve is a sandbox, and your idea of the perfect sandbox is completely different to a person who runs missions. But it is true that Level 4 missions generate too much in the way of ISK, and either everything needs to be bought in to line with them, or they need to be brought into line with everything else.
Part of the major problem with L4's (and missions in general) is that there is no competition. If you make it so each agent can only have, say, 5 missions active with players at any time, then the overall level of profitability of high sec would go down as people are then in competition with each other for the best agents. Also make it so an individual can only get a certain number of missions a day from each agent. That would fix the problem without eliminating anyone's style of play, as there are enough agents if you include those in lowsec as well as in high, so people would want to go to lowsec for the opportunity for money making activities.
So my idea is breaking sandbox because lvl4 missions would require you to go low and ship for bigger profit (a lot more compared to lvl3), but idea to actualy LIMIT theyr gameplay by amount of missions they can run is not violating it ? Choo chooo, here comes cluetrain with wagon of logic!
Lvl5 missions are broken because they are NOT worth it, you cannot really solo them and for couple people reward is not nearly high enought (also there is getting-ganked risk factor).
I didn't see an idea in your posts... (probably my fault TBH) Sorry!
Now, what my idea would do is make people spread out. There are lots of level 4 agents (give me a minute to count them all) and they would easily be able to accommodate them all.
Just to clarify, you did read that the limit is one how many missions they can do FOR ONE AGENT? That's just to stop people camping a single agent preventing anyone else using them.
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Syreniac
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Syreniac Step 1: Watch this forum for a week Step 2: Count the number of threads saying how 'scams need to be fixed' and 'salvage ninjaing is bad!!!111one!' Step 3: Profit!!!!!
You are speaking to soemone who has been trolling this forums for years, i know how many carebears are here. I also happend to know that they do a lot more than just run lvl4s all day long.
Originally by: Syreniac You have to remember that eve is a sandbox, and your idea of the perfect sandbox is completely different to a person who runs missions. But it is true that Level 4 missions generate too much in the way of ISK, and either everything needs to be bought in to line with them, or they need to be brought into line with everything else.
Part of the major problem with L4's (and missions in general) is that there is no competition. If you make it so each agent can only have, say, 5 missions active with players at any time, then the overall level of profitability of high sec would go down as people are then in competition with each other for the best agents. Also make it so an individual can only get a certain number of missions a day from each agent. That would fix the problem without eliminating anyone's style of play, as there are enough agents if you include those in lowsec as well as in high, so people would want to go to lowsec for the opportunity for money making activities.
So my idea is breaking sandbox because lvl4 missions would require you to go low and ship for bigger profit (a lot more compared to lvl3), but idea to actualy LIMIT theyr gameplay by amount of missions they can run is not violating it ? Choo chooo, here comes cluetrain with wagon of logic!
Lvl5 missions are broken because they are NOT worth it, you cannot really solo them and for couple people reward is not nearly high enought (also there is getting-ganked risk factor).
I didn't see an idea in your posts... (probably my fault TBH) Sorry!
Now, what my idea would do is make people spread out. There are lots of level 4 agents (give me a minute to count them all) and they would easily be able to accommodate them all.
Just to clarify, you did read that the limit is one how many missions they can do FOR ONE AGENT? That's just to stop people camping a single agent preventing anyone else using them
I did but this is ******ed idea that didn't pass by my logic filter, all it cause is making lvl4 running even more boring routine: 1. Run lvl4 for one agent 2. Move to another Rinse and repear, great change and making lvl4s interesting gameplay. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Valandril [i want more targets to gank!]
Fixed that for you.
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Valandril [i want more targets to gank!]
Fixed that for you.
Especialy that i pvp in empire. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Syreniac
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Valandril I did but this is ******ed idea that didn't pass by my logic filter, all it cause is making lvl4 running even more boring routine: 1. Run lvl4 for one agent 2. Move to another Rinse and repear, great change and making lvl4s interesting gameplay.
I brings level 4's in line with the other ways of making money
miners have to search for belts with ore in traders have to search for markets manufactures have to search for manufacturing slots explorers have to just plain search pirates have to search for targets scammers have to find gullible people missioners (currently) have to log on and double click on their agent
The problem with Level 4's is that they are a non-competitive way of making ISK. Miners, traders and manufactures are all in competition, as are pirates and scammers and other ways of making Isk. Once the highsec level 4s are full, you can either move to level 3's or lowsec.
It is slightly less abrasive than just moving all Lvl 4s to lowsec, but could have the same overall effect.
On a slightly different note, there are 1673 level 4 agents in EVE. Looking at that times 5, it is a bit small. I would suggest a number between 7 and 12 for the limit of missions available.
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Valandril [i want more targets to gank!]
Fixed that for you.
Especialy that i pvp in empire.
oops should have been for the OP.
anyway, making L4s even more boring is a terrible idea. making it more tedious to find an agent with missions for you is a terrible idea. trying to force those not interested in pvp down into lowsec is a terrible idea. |
Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Valandril [i want more targets to gank!]
Fixed that for you.
Especialy that i pvp in empire.
oops should have been for the OP.
anyway, making L4s even more boring is a terrible idea. making it more tedious to find an agent with missions for you is a terrible idea. trying to force those not interested in pvp down into lowsec is a terrible idea.
This. ________________________________________________ Check out my ideas! New Destroyers |
Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Valandril [i want more targets to gank!]
Fixed that for you.
Especialy that i pvp in empire.
oops should have been for the OP.
anyway, making L4s even more boring is a terrible idea. making it more tedious to find an agent with missions for you is a terrible idea. trying to force those not interested in pvp down into lowsec is a terrible idea.
You don't force them, but they can sit in empire and wormhole/run lvl3, but fact that most moneymaking thing in eve (game which is supposed to be working around risk:reward ratio) comes without any risk is just ridiculous Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
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Nephilius
Caldari Grey Legionaires
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:51:00 -
[21]
Fail. Been said before, and while it may increase lowsec traffic (I stress may), its just not a fiscally good idea. No matter how much you want to force the MMO in this game, some people want no part of what this would ultimately mean for them. I ate a Carebear once...couldn't quit farting rainbows for a month. |
Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.14 17:33:00 -
[22]
I wouldn't mind doing L4 missions in lowsec really, as long as it was impossible to scan you down once you're in deadspace. It's one thing to run the pirate gauntlet at stations and gates, it's another to be engaged and on the edge of your tank when bad guys show up. |
Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.14 17:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan I wouldn't mind doing L4 missions in lowsec really, as long as it was impossible to scan you down once you're in deadspace. It's one thing to run the pirate gauntlet at stations and gates, it's another to be engaged and on the edge of your tank when bad guys show up.
Make the mission easier, but the mission-runner scannable.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:51:00 -
[24]
Many 0.0 players have their mission alt in high-sec to make some ISK for PvP. So you want to see even more market/trader alts instead? The really big ISK are made on the market anyway. Too lucrative? How do you want to stop that?
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.05.14 20:01:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Valandril on 14/05/2009 20:03:13
Originally by: Tarron Sarek Many 0.0 players have their mission alt in high-sec to make some ISK for PvP. So you want to see even more market/trader alts instead? The really big ISK are made on the market anyway. Too lucrative? How do you want to stop that?
Trading also needs some ner***e, now everyone and theyr mother are trading because all it takes to make money is to be a nolife who can play 0.01isk games (sure, smart traders still make money by logging on for 15mintues/day, but less than nolifes). And market should not be decided by nolife (this is what for we got brokers) but place where you can take certain position on item. And the day it happends, you will see a lot less traders on market. For discussion about this topic i send you to MD, there are several ideas how to change it there.
Other thing is that trading empire->0.0 makes you more money than empire->empire. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.05.14 20:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Valandril
If they wanna leave to other game, feel free to.
hey, can you hear CCP shouting 'NO!!' ?
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Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lumari lol if they move all the level 4s to low sec thats more targets for the pirates
I hope they do this will be fun :)
Yarr
Lumari
I was thinking this would be the easiest and simplest way to change the dynamics.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 22:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek Many 0.0 players have their mission alt in high-sec to make some ISK for PvP. So you want to see even more market/trader alts instead? The really big ISK are made on the market anyway. Too lucrative? How do you want to stop that?
Market is subject to competition. More market alts = less profit.
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Parmala Udoni
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Posted - 2009.05.15 20:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan trying to force those not interested in pvp down into lowsec is a terrible idea.
hear, hear!
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ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
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Posted - 2009.05.15 21:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Parmala Udoni
Originally by: Cade Morrigan trying to force those not interested in pvp down into lowsec is a terrible idea.
hear, hear!
~ MED-SEC ~ AND The Blatantly Obvious |
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