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Tzuko1
Minmatar
The All-Seeing Eye
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:52:00 -
[1]
Cool, with this new patch i just put my Black ops to the market.... Its now, complete useless. I advise all black ops pilot to do the same.
olß |
Dart Sirius
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Posted - 2009.05.14 22:09:00 -
[2]
/Signed
I think you better trash it cuz no one wants to buy it after this patch 
Oh and what about recons???
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Clockmaster Xenos
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Posted - 2009.05.15 02:24:00 -
[3]
What did they change this time?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.15 03:01:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Tzuko1
... I advise all black ops pilot to do the same.
Bad decision to say this out loud.. prices will plumet 
Better recycle it and sell the components.. will at least keep you afloat 
Forge '07 on Sale
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Pringlescan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.15 03:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Clockmaster Xenos
What did they change this time?
You used to be able to mwd/cloak and get the mwd speed bonus combined the speed bonus of your black ops battleship for 10 seconds. That would normally be enough so that when the mwd ended you were 20-30km from where you arrived in the system allowing you to get past bubble camps. Now since the mwd turns off it makes it a LOT more likely for you to get caught by bubble camps.
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Cosmo Raata
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.15 06:13:00 -
[6]
A little bird has told me the entire reason for this nerf was to allow black ops to use covert ops without being overpowered.
If I am proved wrong, I will eat said crow.
Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr! |
Tairon Usaro
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.15 07:45:00 -
[7]
well a little bird has told ME, the entire nerf was just an epic failure in the implementation of the cloak-jamming nerf (which i understand and accept). it will be reverted by the next patch.
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Some days i loose, some days the others win ... |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.15 08:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Pringlescan
Originally by: Clockmaster Xenos
What did they change this time?
You used to be able to mwd/cloak and get the mwd speed bonus combined the speed bonus of your black ops battleship for 10 seconds. That would normally be enough so that when the mwd ended you were 20-30km from where you arrived in the system allowing you to get past bubble camps. Now since the mwd turns off it makes it a LOT more likely for you to get caught by bubble camps.
I'll just leave this here.
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Haruhiist since December 2008
^Third Times a Charm^ |
Tzuko1
Minmatar
The All-Seeing Eye
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.15 19:15:00 -
[9]
well, for now sell order cancelled.
but i hope black opses will have some real usefull boost or modification.
olß |
Lilla Kharn
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.15 19:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tzuko1
well, for now sell order cancelled.
but i hope black opses will have some real usefull boost or modification.
They already do. And, no, I won't elaborate if you can't think of it yourself.
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"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato |
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Vrenth
Gallente
Lightning Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.15 19:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tzuko1
well, for now sell order cancelled.
but i hope black opses will have some real usefull boost or modification.
At least you lost your rigs, emo kid. 
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Let's make CLONE VATS useful! |
Tom Hanks
Raype Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.15 20:38:00 -
[12]
The entire point of black ops is to use them with a cyno scout. They have a jump drive for a reason. So stop moaning and get a scout with a covert cyno generator to find targets for you. Once he does, then you jump to him and gank.
So stop crying about it and use the ships as intended (which is easy since you just sit somewhere cloaked until you find something to gank)
Caldari Racial Purity
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.15 21:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tom Hanks
The entire point of black ops is to use them with a cyno scout. They have a jump drive for a reason. So stop moaning and get a scout with a covert cyno generator to find targets for you. Once he does, then you jump to him and gank.
So stop crying about it and use the ships as intended (which is easy since you just sit somewhere cloaked until you find something to gank)
Blackops are terrible in combat roles. Too easy to kill for the price tag, and they have no "real" non combat use. None that's feasible with such a small jump drive and no fuel bay anyway.
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Haruhiist since December 2008
^Third Times a Charm^ |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.15 21:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tom Hanks
The entire point of black ops is to use them with a cyno scout. They have a jump drive for a reason. So stop moaning and get a scout with a covert cyno generator to find targets for you. Once he does, then you jump to him and gank.
So stop crying about it and use the ships as intended (which is easy since you just sit somewhere cloaked until you find something to gank)
Then change the worthless cloak bonus to something useful, if they're not meant to cloak. Or give them the covops cloak, if they are.
PS: a carrier will do your proposed job better, and for less ISK. Black ops suck.
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Tom Hanks
Raype Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.15 22:42:00 -
[15]
Say you have 3 black ops and 3 recons. You can send out 1 scout to find a target, then drop covert cyno. Black ops open portal, 3 recons jump through, then black ops jump in. Gank.
So why do you ever need a covert cloak for this? You dont.
Why do you need more firepower or tank? You dont.
YOUR WEAPON IS THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE YOUR BATTLES FROM MANY JUMPS AWAY
You are invincible, unless you choose to jump into a situation you cant handle, then thats your bad call and you should die.
So stop crying because a black ops isnt a super amazing battleship hac/recon.
Caldari Racial Purity
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.15 22:55:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 15/05/2009 22:56:19
Originally by: Tom Hanks
Say you have 3 black ops and 3 recons.
Why the crap not just use the three recons alone?. Less restricted in movement and they dont have to constantly carry fuel for bridging. At 700m-1b a piece, I can think of numerous more effective 7 man gangs which will A. Get more kills and B. Hurt less when the inevitable OSHI moment happens. Why use 3.5bill (Not including mods), and have all the mandatory skills, when you could spent 1bill~ (Probably including mods) for less training time and higher efficiency?.
Your trying to justify the costs with a "Special Feature" that is pretty much "Meh" in the first place. 4ly (5~ly with max skills) isnt alot of range to bridge anyone and the fuel needed for multiple consecutive bridgings will kill your little 3 black ops 3 recon gang before they can get out their own back yard.
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Haruhiist since December 2008
^Third Times a Charm^ |
Ahz
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Posted - 2009.05.15 23:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Why the crap not just use the three recons alone?
My point exactly.
Anything you can do with 3 recons and 1 black ops you can do better with 4 recons.
Until CCP fixes this problem black ops will just be a novelty toy.
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Tom Hanks
Raype Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.16 06:46:00 -
[18]
The black ops can jump instantly from multiple systems away. Recons cannot. If you dont like what black ops can do, then dont use them. But they have a role, even if it is limited. Maybe their powers will be expanded later, we will see.
Caldari Racial Purity
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Altaica Amur
Professors On Steriods
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.05.16 08:19:00 -
[19]
More ships of a smaller size and cheaper cost will often be more effective then single more expensive ships but that assumes an infinite supply of pilots to fly them which is hardly the case. In a world where capable pilots are far more valuable then the ships they fly black ops are a useful, but expensive, step up from recons. Some may wish to stick with recons due to the price of black ops and that's fine but comparing it to multiple recons is just foolish.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.16 15:06:00 -
[20]
For everyone selling their Black Ops, i'll purchase any/all Redeemers @ 500mil per. Thanks.
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp
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NOTR
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Sydian Rie
Minmatar
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2009.05.16 17:39:00 -
[21]
I don't see anything wrong with Black Ops. Try using them the way they were intended. What I don't understand is why these forums are so full of whining, if you don't like how you can't use a ship then don't fly it.
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Karentaki
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.16 19:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Altaica Amur
More ships of a smaller size and cheaper cost will often be more effective then single more expensive ships but that assumes an infinite supply of pilots to fly them which is hardly the case. In a world where capable pilots are far more valuable then the ships they fly black ops are a useful, but expensive, step up from recons. Some may wish to stick with recons due to the price of black ops and that's fine but comparing it to multiple recons is just foolish.
What we're saying is not that 1 blackops = 5 recons.
We are saying that 1 blackops < 1 recon, at least in 98% of situations. Same number of pilots, less SP, less ISK. How is that balanced?
Sure blackops get a jump drive, but that isn't very useful beyond moving around. Currently the only reason you want to have a blackops is so that you can use 1 recon or covops to get a small fleet of recons into a cyno jammed system. However, 99% of the time, no matter how many recons you jump in, it will always be better to have a fleet of battleships fight their way in, than have a fleet of recons sneak in. Recons can't on their own kill POSs, which is what all 0.0 warfare essentially is.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Solar Ra
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Posted - 2009.05.16 21:13:00 -
[23]
IMO add either 2 of these and BO's will be fine:
T2 resists
Fuel Bay
100% base jump range
Cloaked warp ( cov ops cloak or new skill)
Reduced production cost 30%-50% (perhaps replace some volume of the T2 parts with capital parts)
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.16 21:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Altaica Amur
More ships of a smaller size and cheaper cost will often be more effective then single more expensive ships but that assumes an infinite supply of pilots to fly them which is hardly the case.
Ignoring the steep price of black ops relative to their performance also assumes an infinite supply of ISK per pilot, which (in general) is also not the case.
And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question? |
Tom Hanks
Raype Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.17 07:30:00 -
[25]
I don't see anything wrong with Black Ops. Try using them the way they were intended. What I don't understand is why these forums are so full of whining, if you don't like how you can't use a ship then don't fly it.
^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^
Like I said before. You send out a scout with a covert cyno, when you find something to kill, you jump in the black ops/bombers/recons and kill it. Otherwise you dont bother jumping in. You dont need a covert cloak for this since there is no reason to use a star gate or anything. You only need a covert ops frigate with a covert cyno.
Caldari Racial Purity
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thoth rothschild
Strategic Solutions Ltd.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.17 22:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tom Hanks
I don't see anything wrong with Black Ops. Try using them the way they were intended. What I don't understand is why these forums are so full of whining, if you don't like how you can't use a ship then don't fly it.
^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^
Like I said before. You send out a scout with a covert cyno, when you find something to kill, you jump in the black ops/bombers/recons and kill it. Otherwise you dont bother jumping in. You dont need a covert cloak for this since there is no reason to use a star gate or anything. You only need a covert ops frigate with a covert cyno.
I highly recommend to get more intel on the jump range of the BO Ships.
4 Recons can do better without a Bo while roaming.
The slow BO Ship is in most cases a big break to the agility of a roaming gang, considering the jump range to be 1 or max 2 systems.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.17 22:16:00 -
[27]
The most useful thing i can think of using a Black ops for is bridging Blockade Runners straight from highsec to the doorstop of your POS a jump or two into lowsec. They tank worse than T1 ships and have much less Effective Hit Points, meaning they are useless for Wormholes both Solo and Grouped, Roaming gangs will either bust straight into the camp if they can take it, or take a different route if they cannot, They will be too busy carrying cap 400-800's to bring Fuel along with.
Sure, you can argue "You dont need covops cloak if you can jump ontop of your target" all you want. But the minute any target see's a covops frigate decloak and activate a covert cyno, its off-grid already. whereas if you had just brought the Recons in the first place it would be dead.
Blackops Do not bring extra manoeuvrability.
Blackops Do not bring extra survivability.
Blackops Do not bring extra ....kill-ability?.
They were somewhat cost effective at 500-600mill, but now at 800-900~mill, they are pointless.
___________________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
^Third Times a Charm^ |
Kulmid
Asshats and Alcoholics
Turbo.
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Posted - 2009.05.17 23:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: thoth rothschild
I highly recommend to get more intel on the jump range of the BO Ships.
4 Recons can do better without a Bo while roaming.
The slow BO Ship is in most cases a big break to the agility of a roaming gang, considering the jump range to be 1 or max 2 systems.
While I don't disagree that Black Ops are a broken class, almost all of these statements are completely untrue except maybe the second.
When we used Black Ops in Providence we were able to jump up to 10+ systems depending on which ones we went to/from. Getting the covert ops ship through the gate camps was easy and a 5 man roaming gang will throw massive flags into all intel channels when they jump into the entry-point. A single covert ops is much less alarming and when a single red jumps into local with no sign of anyone else around people will continue to rat. The Covert Ops then lights the covert cyno at a safespot and 1 tackle recon is bridged in. A ratter is tackled and the rest of the ships are bridged in. We were then able to jump back out to low sec after killing a few people avoiding all of the camps that generally would outnumber us 5 to 1. We could jump all around providence (ie. from K1Y, a well known ratting system, to E-Y, a well known mining system which is behind a massive choke).
As far as breaking agility of a roaming gang, that is also completely untrue. My Sin would often align as fast or faster than most other ships in the gang due to Black Ops naturally high agility and the Sin's bonus. While they are pretty useless in full-on combat roles, they are very good for moving gang into 0.0 from low sec without scaring every ratter in the region before you are within 10 jumps. Also, I don't think ganking ratters is really all that fun either, so our Black Ops trips into Providence only lasted until they stopped trying to save the tackled ratters.
Again, I am not saying that Black Ops don't need some boosts to bring them inline, but its obvious you really have no idea what it is you are talking about.
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