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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
Colt Blackhawk
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
3
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Posted - 2012.11.26 16:49:00 -
[571] - Quote
Quote:During the most recent Buckingham reboot we deployed an updated version of the NPCs, the larger versions especially should tank harder now.
The current mechanics are that one NPC spawns at the start, and the second only appears if you fail to kill the first quickly. If we find that gunless farming begins to return we can put more NPC spawns in at a later point, but in general we want as much of the danger and difficulty of these plexes as possible to be provided by pvp rather than pve.
Let us know what you think of the specs on these latest versions of the rats.
No. No. No. Following will happen: One guys in ship with guns will kill the first wave and place an alt in the plex while doing the next wave in another plex and placing another alt on plex and so on. Or fleets of 5 pvp guys who run all plex guards in one system after the other while gunless frig armada follows. NO! Not again. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
98
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Posted - 2012.11.26 17:11:00 -
[572] - Quote
Been on for a few minutes the battlecruiser tanked my incurses easily, my myrms drones also had a problem and they are supposed to put out somewhere like 380dps and had to use the guns to finish the NPCGÇÖs off so that is a lot better.
Going to say I donGÇÖtGÇÖ really get the logic behind the spawn mechanic.
If the plexer cannot kill the NPC then the timer does not run and no farming takes place, the player is then just circling an NPC wasting ammo, I guess there is a scenario where a ship with borderline DPS gets chased away by the second NPC but I would suggest that players will either break the NPC quickly or will just not be able to in which case further spawns are unnecessary and only open to exploitation (players may deliberately spawn it with an alt to gain a small advantage, many plexes come pre spawned in certain locations already)
I would much rather that second spawn always spawn at the back end of the timer to ensure the ship finishing the timer is still appropriate.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
252
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Posted - 2012.11.26 17:22:00 -
[573] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The current mechanics are that one NPC spawns at the start, and the second only appears if you fail to kill the first quickly.
This will immediately cause a single rat pop at the start with gunless frigs (probably trial accounts) following to complete. Gunless chain plexing will result almost immediately after this patch is released, please don't bring that back!
Just one rat at the beginning and one rat at the end is still not sufficient (though better).
IMO, the optimal setup is:
4-5 rats spawn. The timer only stops counting if a rat is not killed by the time another rat is ready to spawn. Then the next spawn is paused until the previous rat is killed. Once it is, the queued rat spawns and the timer resumes again.
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Axl Borlara
T.R.I.A.D
53
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Posted - 2012.11.26 17:30:00 -
[574] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Lili Lu wrote:It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment. I disagree. Bring a recon in against a vexor sitting at 0 on the warpin and see what happens.
You are missing the point. Ok, yes you could start with a t1 cruiser in a plex. However, why would you not start by defending with a t2 cruiser? In which case, you'd attack using t2 as well.
It works reasonably well now because in minor plexes, t2 frigates aren't allowed. Faction frigs are debatable, but in most cases, there are practical uses for t1 frigs. Same for mediums. t1 cruisers are used because that's the best available. (plus of course faction). |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2483
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Posted - 2012.11.26 17:51:00 -
[575] - Quote
Axl Borlara wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Lili Lu wrote:It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment. I disagree. Bring a recon in against a vexor sitting at 0 on the warpin and see what happens. You are missing the point. Ok, yes you could start with a t1 cruiser in a plex. However, why would you not start by defending with a t2 cruiser? In which case, you'd attack using t2 as well. It works reasonably well now because in minor plexes, t2 frigates aren't allowed. Faction frigs are debatable, but in most cases, there are practical uses for t1 frigs. Same for mediums. t1 cruisers are used because that's the best available. (plus of course faction).
We'll keep an eye on it and can change as needed if the results aren't good. However I plan on using medium plexes to farm HAC kills using my T1 cruisers. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Anna Shoul
14
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:00:00 -
[576] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:During the most recent Buckingham reboot we deployed an updated version of the NPCs, the larger versions especially should tank harder now.
Just went into a Caldari Medium Facility with an Atron. My favourite under-3-mil throwaway fit too. Now there's a State Cruiser Wreck and I'm waiting for the button to spin out in solitude. :) Not sure if that was what was intended.
As a side note, the system capture status vanished from the screen after I completed the first plex and never came back. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
632
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:05:00 -
[577] - Quote
Anna Shoul wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:During the most recent Buckingham reboot we deployed an updated version of the NPCs, the larger versions especially should tank harder now. Just went into a Caldari Medium Facility with an Atron. My favourite under-3-mil throwaway fit too. Now there's a State Cruiser Wreck and I'm waiting for the button to spin out in solitude. :) Not sure if that was what was intended. As a side note, the system capture status vanished from the screen after I completed the first plex and never came back. Sounds like high-dps short range hulls are a "challenge" for this implementation of FW plexes?
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Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1047
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:13:00 -
[578] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Axl Borlara wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Lili Lu wrote:It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment. I disagree. Bring a recon in against a vexor sitting at 0 on the warpin and see what happens. You are missing the point. Ok, yes you could start with a t1 cruiser in a plex. However, why would you not start by defending with a t2 cruiser? In which case, you'd attack using t2 as well. It works reasonably well now because in minor plexes, t2 frigates aren't allowed. Faction frigs are debatable, but in most cases, there are practical uses for t1 frigs. Same for mediums. t1 cruisers are used because that's the best available. (plus of course faction). We'll keep an eye on it and can change as needed if the results aren't good. However I plan on using medium plexes to farm HAC kills using my T1 cruisers.
Eh, sorry.
It's really nice that the FLIPPING designer and known "pro" is thinking about farming T2 HACs. THat's really cute and special and stuff, but thanks for thinking about all the people that are learning to PVP and will never ever ever stand a chance.
Good thinkin.
Where I am. |
Anna Shoul
14
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:14:00 -
[579] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Sounds like high-dps short range hulls are a "challenge" for this implementation of FW plexes?
Me, I'm not sure that there's a point to have NPCs in plexes at all.
Granted, it took me quite a while to kill that cruiser as my DPS isn't that high in that fit, but it certainly couldn't touch me. Maybe solo NPCs aren't really the way to go - a couple frigs to back it up could cause me problems.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2484
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:20:00 -
[580] - Quote
Anna Shoul wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Sounds like high-dps short range hulls are a "challenge" for this implementation of FW plexes? Me, I'm not sure that there's a point to have NPCs in plexes at all. Granted, it took me quite a while to kill that cruiser as my DPS isn't that high in that fit, but it certainly couldn't touch me. Maybe solo NPCs aren't really the way to go - a couple frigs to back it up could cause me problems.
The NPCs not applying much damage is intentional so that they don't discourage pvp as much as the current system. They exist as speedbumps, and other players are the main event. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
89
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:31:00 -
[581] - Quote
Do plex timers reset/tick down yet when people warp out? |
Anna Shoul
14
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:31:00 -
[582] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The NPCs not applying much damage is intentional so that they don't discourage pvp as much as the current system. They exist as speedbumps, and other players are the main event.
It's not the DPS in this case, but the tracking. At ~1200m/s with an effective orbit radius of ~1500m, it was unable to hit me entirely, so I could orbit it indefinitely. If it's role is to prevent me from plexing with an undersized and underpowered ship, it didn't work very well, I didn't try that Atron fit in a larger plex, but I suspect an all-T2-mods version would kill it anyway. If it's role is just to annoy me and give my FW opponents more time to catch me plexing in their system, well, yes, I suppose it works... ...but it would do best to scram me then. :) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2484
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:35:00 -
[583] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Do plex timers reset/tick down yet when people warp out?
Unfortunately we didn't have time to get that into the first Retri release. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Colt Blackhawk
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
5
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:52:00 -
[584] - Quote
I wonder about another problem actually in the design: When a minmatar plexer in minmatar ship is plexing he is also with 80% probability perfectly fitted for pvp. Why? Because he has best possible em and thermal resists. If an amarr plexer tries the same in an amarr laser boat he has some disadvantage: He is probably perfectly fitted vs minmatar rat damage but the chasing minmatar pilot knows that and uses another damage type. Something the amarr pilot cannot do.
On topic:
Please do not start this one wave stuff. I was so happy I didn-¦t see any doublestabbed plexing slashers any more. And do not tell us you will switch it fast if you see too much plexing. You already needed about 5 months to fix the plex issue after Inferno which almost killed whole amarr militia plus absurd amounts of isk for minmatar (yeah congrats plex costs 600m now...) Not to mention this heroic idea at the beginning giving caldari and minnie npcs ewar and amarr plus gallente not.... That was the beginning of the drama. We really don-¦t need that sh..... again. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1162
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:53:00 -
[585] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Anna Shoul wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Sounds like high-dps short range hulls are a "challenge" for this implementation of FW plexes? Me, I'm not sure that there's a point to have NPCs in plexes at all. Granted, it took me quite a while to kill that cruiser as my DPS isn't that high in that fit, but it certainly couldn't touch me. Maybe solo NPCs aren't really the way to go - a couple frigs to back it up could cause me problems. The NPCs not applying much damage is intentional so that they don't discourage pvp as much as the current system. They exist as speedbumps, and other players are the main event. love it
can upgraded FW systems give a bonus to how many speed bumps spawn? like 3 max for highest level? 2 for the next lowest, and 1 for every other so it's only a high end bonus? or maybe just maxing out a system makes spawns double so 2 ships show up?
just brain storming http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
253
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:06:00 -
[586] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We'll keep an eye on it and can change as needed if the results aren't good. However I plan on using medium plexes to farm HAC kills using my T1 cruisers.
If you want to farm HAC's in a cruiser, you can still do so in the current majors.
A serious question:
Obviously with rookie plexes, frigates are not considered on par with t2 frigates. What makes cruisers vs t2 cruisers different from frigates vs t2 frigates?
Because the coming setup of destroyers vs t2 frigates seems like it should translate to battlecruisers vs t2 cruisers. Same question, what makes this different? |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
144
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:50:00 -
[587] - Quote
I agree, the best solution would IMO be one plex size for every of the 6 ship classes, with t2 rated one class higher. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
747
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:54:00 -
[588] - Quote
Why did we cut numbers of NPCs to one at a time? That is crazy. I'll just have to hop into a 500-600 DPS Catalyst and get under the guns of one BS rat to run majors. Or a Stealth bomber.
Here is the thing CCP Fozzie. Every little corp or alliance in FW has a home base system. They also all have a 8 hour blind spot where people of the opposing faction can plex their systems. This new system will bring back the farmers as well as the three hour blocks of time you need to dplex your home system before you can do what you actually want to do.
Currently you need a committed effort to take a system. If rats are interfering with PvP then cutting their DPS and slightly modifying numbers would be the way to go. This is everything plus the kitchen sink.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
632
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:57:00 -
[589] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Anna Shoul wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Sounds like high-dps short range hulls are a "challenge" for this implementation of FW plexes? Me, I'm not sure that there's a point to have NPCs in plexes at all. Granted, it took me quite a while to kill that cruiser as my DPS isn't that high in that fit, but it certainly couldn't touch me. Maybe solo NPCs aren't really the way to go - a couple frigs to back it up could cause me problems. The NPCs not applying much damage is intentional so that they don't discourage pvp as much as the current system. They exist as speedbumps, and other players are the main event. So, it still takes a sufficiently long time for a lower sized hull to wear down rats in a larger sized plex? If so, then that's fine.
The 600 dps Catalyst option should not be available for larger plexes, but I see this as challenging to achieve if you also want a Drake or other ship to be able to solo a plex as well. Good luck!
The other thing to do is space out the rat spawns so that it makes it more difficult to afk plex with minimum skill alts (spawns at beginning and end of timer, and evenly spaced throughout if there are more than two).
That's probably the best you can do. Then it's up to the players. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1179
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Posted - 2012.11.26 21:13:00 -
[590] - Quote
i soloed a lage plex in a cheap pvp fitted punisher while playing planetside. (only one cane spawned). I don't see why it is supposed to be better as the current situation. In fact i would be happier if CCP would keep it as is. Having the beacon within warpin range serves no purpose, it rather limits ship options. Having a singe NPC at a time in the plex will just unlock those stealthbombers again - but this time it has sov implications rather then just missioning.
the changes are rather random, e.g. once timer resets are implemented you just could revert most of them. This is the real fix to thie problem. There is still no reason why the plexer should stay and fight. Unless you add a bubble around the flag you can move the warpin wherever you want - its pointless - it just causes other issues a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
166
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Posted - 2012.11.26 21:15:00 -
[591] - Quote
Farmers gonna farm. The best you can do is make it so the barrier to entry is high enough to deter the casual farmer from rolling nine alts.
Part of making FW a farmer unfriendly area is on the players to make it unpleasant and unprofitable to farm plexes and runaway at the first sign of trouble, but getting the timer reversion in place as fast as possible would be a big help in that regard. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
747
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Posted - 2012.11.26 22:36:00 -
[592] - Quote
It is reinventing the wheel where no reinvention needs to be done. The most annoying thing about minors is the endless frigate spawns. There is what, seven or eight spawns?? That is annoying but the rats themselves are not a threat in a minor.
Rats in mediums and majors only interfere if there is a full spawn. Make the spawn one at a time - issue solved.
Plexing is a sov mechanic. It needs to be time consuming. One rat at a time is a joke. If this rolls out as is on TQ Amarr will be on their heels again. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
747
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Posted - 2012.11.26 22:50:00 -
[593] - Quote
One more thing....
I currently run Majors in a Naga. It cuts through the rats like a hot knife through butter. It also gets some great comedy kills when people come into the plex and charge me. The ship itself is at great risk when I'm jumping it in and out of a system I'm trying to plex. It's also very vulnerable until I get range inside a plex. Lastly, cloaky ships are a significant threat.
The button is being moved closer in and the number of rats are being brought down. Do you think I'll continue to risk my Naga? Or just bring a cheap DPS boat?
You should be looking at where the rats spawn relative to the button and how often they spawn. Changing everything is unnecessary. |
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
47
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Posted - 2012.11.26 23:05:00 -
[594] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:We'll keep an eye on it and can change as needed if the results aren't good. However I plan on using medium plexes to farm HAC kills using my T1 cruisers. Eh, sorry. It's really nice that the FLIPPING designer and known "pro" is thinking about farming T2 HACs. THat's really cute and special and stuff, but thanks for thinking about all the people that are learning to PVP and will never ever ever stand a chance. Good thinkin. Gotta emphasize this. C'mon, Fozzie, you're usually so good at keeping personal perspective out of balancing. Don't fail us now! |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
145
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Posted - 2012.11.26 23:21:00 -
[595] - Quote
I like the new solitary rat, but it should really be tougher.
I was able to blap a the single Harbinger NPC that is guarding a large plex in seconds with my nado.
P.S: Also I repeat: 6 ship classes -> 6 plex sizes, t2 rated one class higher. |
Garr Earthbender
Justified Chaos
80
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Posted - 2012.11.27 00:58:00 -
[596] - Quote
How about that. Battleship sized guns blap slow moving battlecruiser sized NPCs. Go figgure. -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
Anna Shoul
14
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Posted - 2012.11.27 03:32:00 -
[597] - Quote
Something random I just thought about.
If my memory serves me right, Faction Warfare LP store offers also include offers that require enemy navy tags. Previously, those tags were plentiful due to being readily available in any plex.
Well, now that there's only one NPC per plex, where exactly are people meant to be getting these? :) |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
33
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Posted - 2012.11.27 06:53:00 -
[598] - Quote
chatgris wrote:I will join in the chorus of "please no t2 cruisers in mediums". Being able to avoid the falcon/rapier/curse/guardian crap (ships that fight bs's out in the open) is one of the best things about fw.
But I will try and state my case in relation to the other plexes:
Destroyers enter the plexes with t2 frigates. It follows that battlecruisers are the tier to fight t2 cruisers.
Concretely, I am suggestig:
Rookie (t1 frigs) Minor (t1 frigs and destroyers and t2 frigs and below) Medium (t1 cruisers and below) Major (t2 cruisers and battlecruisers and below) Unrestricted (everything, no gate as now)
Not only does it keep the fun factor of being able to hide from the null sec style gangs in t1 cruisers, it matches the logic splitting off the rookie plex from the minor plexes.
This. Please do it like this.
Also....the number of farmers have been reduced greatly since the last patch. I no longer try to run med or large plexes in my frigate.....I go and risk my SFI for it if a med or large needs to be done. I don't see any problems with the current NPC's right now.
NPC's should be having same overall difficulty though. Right now I'm mostly safe from amarrian NPC's when I'm 40k away. Should be same difficulty for all races. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
98
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Posted - 2012.11.27 14:21:00 -
[599] - Quote
The battlecruiser in the large plex seems to have the right level of tank now, not much you can do about high DPS destroyers but at least they are quite vulnerable to other ships.
The cruiser in the medium is still vulnerable to my incursus and I feel you can kick itGÇÖs tank up a notch, any of the new cruisers easily put out decent DPS and will have no problem dealing with a bit more tank.
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Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
76
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Posted - 2012.11.30 00:46:00 -
[600] - Quote
Alticus C Bear wrote:The battlecruiser in the large plex seems to have the right level of tank now, not much you can do about high DPS destroyers but at least they are quite vulnerable to other ships.
Vulnerable would be a 1000km bubble around the plex and multiple NPCs that can actually hold at least a T1 frig until the fabled "pvp" comes to the farmer.
Consider this scenario: neutral Daredevil/Vigilant comes in, ganks the 1 NPC ship, moves to next plex. Docks up if anything comes near him. After all plexes cleared, he decloaks the 8 stabbed Condors/Reapers to run the timers. Here he can go afk, and come back 30 minutes later.
Retribution = Farm Wars 2.0. |
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