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Alonzo Odantis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.05.10 19:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm new here, so maybe i'm missing something.
But I keep hearing how the game catered to carebears by making gankers not get insurance for suiciding and overall making it harder to pop noobs and miners in the heart of highsec space.
1) So you want to be able to gank people in high sec because it's "realistic" right? no safe zones right? But you want insurance to give you money back so you can do so without it costing you much...remind me who the carebear whining to CCP is in this scenario again?
2) "Wah we are so sick of carebears being catered to, stop making the game harder" yeah...about that...
i heard a lot of good things about the pvp community in this game, but so far the bulk of the 1337 pirates I see from the forums just want to be able to gank SAFELY in highsec without worrying about anti-pkers or anyone being able to stop them...
Irony...
"OMG These miners just expect to be able to do nothing but mine all day and have no risk. That's such garbage everything in this game should have risk...PS Please stop making me have to lose money to suicide bomb someone in the middle of a space police station"
if it was up to me, it would be 1 char per account, and a much harsher clone system. IE: You may save your clone once a month, any progress made since last save is lost. The insurance not only wouldn't cover your suicide ship, but once you blew up a handful of ships in a short amount of time no insurance would cover you. Think about real world insurance, no one is going to insure your car if you get into an accident every week.
Don't when you can pop on an alt, do your damage, and hide back on your main that has pristine rep because you use alts to do your dirty work, don't cry to me about "carebears" because you're the biggest ones in the group. |
Evolution1979
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.05.10 19:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
lmao 2/10 |
StonerPhReaK
Nasgul Collective Cascade Imminent
54
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Posted - 2012.05.10 21:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Was a great read...
Up till "real World".
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Johnnyjelly
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.10 21:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:I'm new here, so maybe i'm missing something.
But I keep hearing how the game catered to carebears by making gankers not get insurance for suiciding and overall making it harder to pop noobs and miners in the heart of highsec space.
1) So you want to be able to gank people in high sec because it's "realistic" right? no safe zones right? But you want insurance to give you money back so you can do so without it costing you much...remind me who the carebear whining to CCP is in this scenario again?
2) "Wah we are so sick of carebears being catered to, stop making the game harder" yeah...about that...
i heard a lot of good things about the pvp community in this game, but so far the bulk of the 1337 pirates I see from the forums just want to be able to gank SAFELY in highsec without worrying about anti-pkers or anyone being able to stop them...
Irony...
"OMG These miners just expect to be able to do nothing but mine all day and have no risk. That's such garbage everything in this game should have risk...PS Please stop making me have to lose money to suicide bomb someone in the middle of a space police station"
if it was up to me, it would be 1 char per account, and a much harsher clone system. IE: You may save your clone once a month, any progress made since last save is lost. The insurance not only wouldn't cover your suicide ship, but once you blew up a handful of ships in a short amount of time no insurance would cover you. Think about real world insurance, no one is going to insure your car if you get into an accident every week.
Don't when you can pop on an alt, do your damage, and hide back on your main that has pristine rep because you use alts to do your dirty work, don't cry to me about "carebears" because you're the biggest ones in the group. I got an idea make a thread about something new and interesting not complete and utter ****! |
Alonzo Odantis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.05.10 21:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
StonerPhReaK wrote:Was a great read...
Up till "real World".
It's an example to the actual process of insurance. Are we supposed to pretend there's some altruistic super-corp out there shelling out all of this insurance money. Was just cutting off the "Why shouldn't get get insurance" qq
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Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo TEMNAVA
101
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Posted - 2012.05.10 21:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:I'm new here, so maybe i'm missing something.
Stopped reading around this part... ~Boredom Breeds Direction~ |
Angry Onions
League of Angered Gentlemen
218
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Posted - 2012.05.10 22:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Interesting side note: Suicide gankers and high-sec miners seem to be the two most whiny demographics in EvE. E .-+ ` ' / -+. F Your Carebear tears fuel us
Heil Hizzle Mein Nizzles. |
Alonzo Odantis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.05.10 23:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Proclus Diadochu wrote:Alonzo Odantis wrote:I'm new here, so maybe i'm missing something.
Stopped reading around this part...
Don't worry, I'm here to teach you how to play. |
Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo TEMNAVA
102
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Posted - 2012.05.10 23:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:Proclus Diadochu wrote:Alonzo Odantis wrote:I'm new here, so maybe i'm missing something.
Stopped reading around this part... Don't worry, I'm here to teach you how to play.
OK, alt.. What is it like being a *****?
~Boredom Breeds Direction~ |
Alonzo Odantis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 23:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Proclus Diadochu wrote:Alonzo Odantis wrote:Proclus Diadochu wrote:Alonzo Odantis wrote:I'm new here, so maybe i'm missing something.
Stopped reading around this part... Don't worry, I'm here to teach you how to play. OK, alt.. What is it like being a *****?
A group of asterisks? I have no idea.
Don't worry, I'll still teach you how to play.
The hilarious thing about this game is that the level of scamming has made people so paranoid, they are in complete disbelief that someone is a genuine new player. I think I'm going to like this game. |
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Boomhaur
46
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Posted - 2012.05.11 00:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:Proclus Diadochu wrote:Alonzo Odantis wrote:Proclus Diadochu wrote:Alonzo Odantis wrote:I'm new here, so maybe i'm missing something.
Stopped reading around this part... Don't worry, I'm here to teach you how to play. OK, alt.. What is it like being a *****? A group of asterisks? I have no idea. Don't worry, I'll still teach you how to play. The hilarious thing about this game is that the level of scamming has made people so paranoid, they are in complete disbelief that someone is a genuine new player. I think I'm going to like this game.
If your paranoid and think everyone is out to get you, you will do well in this game. If not there is a slight learning curve.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1 |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 07:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
The solution is to rise the insurance rates for mining vessles...very obviously miners work in a risky environment, sharp edges of roids, trigger happy balt scum,...every reasonable insurance company would consider to work in a cost effective way and adapt the rates to the risk of the insurent.
But wait! Me not hatez you little carebear!
Same could be done with suicide gankers. As they obviously have a tremendous amount of "wear and tear" the insurance rates for gankers in high sec could be adapted to their losses to concord or faction police. In the end insurance will at one point be more expensive than what they actually could benefit. /discuss |
Troll Gremlin
Pirates of the Carebearing
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 07:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
i like turtles.....
P.S im not a troll...really im not...its not my fault i have to live under a bridge to get away from all the bit.ching.
Ah..think about a eve were ppl just settle they're nerdrage ingame...what a boring game that would be. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
101
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Posted - 2012.05.11 08:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
how is a gank "safe" if you are guaranteed to lose your ship in it? |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
147
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 09:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:I'm new here, so maybe i'm missing something.
But I keep hearing how the game catered to carebears by making gankers not get insurance for suiciding and overall making it harder to pop noobs and miners in the heart of highsec space.
1) So you want to be able to gank people in high sec because it's "realistic" right? no safe zones right? But you want insurance to give you money back so you can do so without it costing you much...remind me who the carebear whining to CCP is in this scenario again?
2) "Wah we are so sick of carebears being catered to, stop making the game harder" yeah...about that...
i heard a lot of good things about the pvp community in this game, but so far the bulk of the 1337 pirates I see from the forums just want to be able to gank SAFELY in highsec without worrying about anti-pkers or anyone being able to stop them...
Irony...
"OMG These miners just expect to be able to do nothing but mine all day and have no risk. That's such garbage everything in this game should have risk...PS Please stop making me have to lose money to suicide bomb someone in the middle of a space police station"
if it was up to me, it would be 1 char per account, and a much harsher clone system. IE: You may save your clone once a month, any progress made since last save is lost. The insurance not only wouldn't cover your suicide ship, but once you blew up a handful of ships in a short amount of time no insurance would cover you. Think about real world insurance, no one is going to insure your car if you get into an accident every week.
Don't when you can pop on an alt, do your damage, and hide back on your main that has pristine rep because you use alts to do your dirty work, don't cry to me about "carebears" because you're the biggest ones in the group.
This is EVE, people should be able to defend themselves and take matters into their own hands, which is something I wholly advocate and follows the sandbox theme of the game. The issue people have with carebears "whining" is that they don't want to play the same game that the rest of us do and instead of asking CCP for a way to put guns on their sandcastles, they want CCP to draw lines in the sand instead.
I absolutely think there should be risk in the game for all parties, but instead of petitioning CCP to create equal risk for aggressive parties they instead request complete pacification. Finally, if you want to compare EVE to real life, why not just complain the flying around in internet spaceships aspect is unrealistic and should be changed. Troll harder.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
667
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 09:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote: i heard a lot of good things about the pvp community in this game, but so far the bulk of the 1337 pirates I see from the forums just want to be able to gank SAFELY in highsec without worrying about anti-pkers or anyone being able to stop them...
Quoting because highsec gankers are the only people who claim PVP status in eve. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Elinarien
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 10:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:The solution is to rise the insurance rates for mining vessles...very obviously miners work in a risky environment, sharp edges of roids, trigger happy belt scum,...every reasonable insurance company would consider to work in a cost effective way and adapt the rates to the risk of the insurent.
But wait! Me not hatez you little carebear!
Same could be done with suicide gankers. As they obviously have a tremendous amount of "wear and tear" the insurance rates for gankers in high sec could be adapted to their losses to concord or faction police. In the end insurance will at one point be more expensive than what they actually could benefit. /discuss
Perhaps ganker's insurance rates should be set using the same underwriting algorithms that get applied to a spotty 17 year old kid who tries to insure fully comp his pimped 10 year old Corsa... |
Alonzo Odantis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 13:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
The gambit of excuses for why i'm posting this is hilarious.
I'm not a miner. I've been playing not quite 2 weeks now and all of my skillpoints so far are in basic stuff and combat oriented skills.
This wasn't a troll, though I troll often, and this isn't an alt.
I'm a new player that is attracted to eve due to open pvp and lootable/punishable death in pvp.
But I'm not going to pretend that my gameplay is somehow dampened because if I kill someone in high sec space (which you CAN do, they aren't invuln or anything) that I will die?
Sandbox doesn't mean "here's absolutely zero npc influence" There aren't enough players to fill an entire galaxy. I see anywhere from 20-45k of people online which is a lot...not enough for one city on one planet but you want no npc influence in an entire galaxy? The game would be empty and dead.
UO had one shot guards and that certainly didn't take away from pvp and people didn't cry that npcs protecting people in a small section of the game (protecting in the form of punishment, not actually protecting) ruined the pvp experience.
The only "pvper" i could see crying about this is someone that can't win in actual combat. I don't care about morality of it, I don't care if the guy loses 5 years of mining work, but I'm not going to throw a tantrum and pretend the devs are out to wipe me off the map because I can't kill someone in what is essentially a police station without getting caught. You keep saying they are carebears for wanting no risk, but the minute there's risk for the pvper it's "the devs hate us"
I think it's amazing you can suicide gank, I'm not going to pretend that any npc interaction at all is unfair or ruins the game.
How immersive of a sandbox is it if one guy in a crappy ship can go into a center for galactic trade and pop people without police.
I think it's HILARIOUS that someone can feel "safe" and get their ship popped ANYWHERE. But telling me you think you should only be subject to whatever friends people can have online in their sector at any one moment? No, that's just dumb. That's just a ganker looking for easy mode |
Alonzo Odantis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 13:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:how is a gank "safe" if you are guaranteed to lose your ship in it?
It's not, but that's what the ganker carebears are crying about.
"Wahh it's not fair that if I attack someone in the middle of a highly secured sector I can get killed for it :( Nevermind that the only reason my suicide tactic works is because no one can target me in this safe zone and I don't mind that it helps me at all"
Obviously real pvpers don't care about this. You can be a high sec ganker if you want and that's fine, but don't cry about how "the devs hate me" and make emo posts about it on your livejournal. I have no sympathy for carebears, that goes for miner carebears and ganker carebears that cry anytime there's a downside to ganking, while saying the miners have no right to ***** because they should have known there was a downside to mining in high sec (getting ganked)
the carebear finger pointing is hilarious when both sides look like pink teddybears with rainbows on their tummies. |
Captain Sunnymuffins
Jita Customs and Excise
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 16:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think you are missing something. May I suggest keeping marbles in a jar?
Professional suicide gankers couldn't give a toss about insurance.
Your assessment of "risk" is inaccurate. A suicide will always lose their ship - risk is 100%. There is also the risk of failure. The suicide ganker must decide whether the target's loot and the chance of failure are sufficient to out-weight this risk.
You'll find that whiners exist across all professions. They are people who find comfort in the ability to blame someone else for their short-comings. |
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Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
116
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 17:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:
if it was up to me, it would be 1 char per account,
no one is going to insure your car if you get into an accident every week.
Don't when you can pop on an alt, do your damage, and hide back on your main that has pristine rep because you use alts to do your dirty work, don't cry to me about "carebears" because you're the biggest ones in the group.
These. 1 character per account would be awesome. Reputation, war, consequences. Hiding behind and/ or recycling alts really does nothing to make Eve a better, more immersive game.
As for insurance - the SCC must be the most unprofitable business in history. Who the heck would insure combat ships, or any ship really, flown by capsuleers? |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
566
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 17:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nooblets have no business making or forming judgments on something they do not understand.
2 weeks for all intents and purposes is 2 hours.
Come back when youve played for 6 months...then let us know if you really think thats the case.
Oh and welcome to EVE Online....noob. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Rita May
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 17:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:how is a gank "safe" if you are guaranteed to lose your ship in it?
ok, so this comes up every ******* time in any Gankthread
It is not a risk. Why? Because it is a fact that you going to get that ship poped - so it is a cost calculation, like the ammo you shoot, nothing more, nothing less. Therefor it is "safe" in sense of: you know your investment - and if your're doing your ganking right you know the outcome... |
Cassandra Masami
Cestus Wraith
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 17:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:how is a gank "safe" if you are guaranteed to lose your ship in it? It's not, but that's what the ganker carebears are crying about.
It's "safe" despite the guaranteed ship loss because the loss is guaranteed and becomes an operational cost for each occurrence of that activity. If it weren't guaranteed and had some reasonable expectations for survival then it would be a risk and less safe.
Personally I think people often use "safe" to refer to predictability. From what I've read and seen there is a formula for ganking an exhumer, one that meets with success the majority of the time and so could be considered "safe."
- Gather ingredients: 2 catalysts, 1 exhumer, sprinkling of blasters with faction antimatter
- Pour into asteroid belt with ice or rocks and agitate well
- Strain the resulting mixture to extract tears
- Garnish with olive and serve chilled on C&P forums
It's not completely safe or predictable, nothing is. Failure is always an option. Not even the vaunted "safe/risk free isk" L4 missions are completely safe since people do on rare occasions lose ships in them. They're just "safer." Same way highsec space is "safer" and not "safe." |
Daemon Ceed
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
98
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 22:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Alonzo Odantis wrote:The gambit of excuses for why i'm posting this is hilarious. I'm not a miner. I've been playing not quite 2 weeks now and all of my skillpoints so far are in basic stuff and combat oriented skills.
That's right. You've been playing barely 2 weeks and you want to try to start suggesting things in a game that you know little to nothing about. Do what most of us have done; Play for at least 4-6 months, figure out why things are the way they are, and then if you so choose open your mouth and try to give suggestions. Right now, you are like a student in his first week at an automobile mechanics 101 course and trying to give ideas on how to completely redesign the internal combustion engine. Post with your main or GTFO! The Sandbox = Play however the hell you want. |
Darth Snuggles
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 22:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Captain Sunnymuffins wrote:There is also the risk of failure. The suicide ganker must decide whether the target's loot and the chance of failure are sufficient to out-weight this risk.
We finally get to the scales that the ganker must weigh. Loss of sec status for no gain is a real b^&*h. |
Darth Snuggles
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 22:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Nooblets have no business making or forming judgments on something they do not understand.
2 weeks for all intents and purposes is 2 hours.
Come back when youve played for 6 months...then let us know if you really think thats the case.
Oh and welcome to EVE Online....noob.
Daemon Ceed wrote:That's right. You've been playing barely 2 weeks and you want to try to start suggesting things in a game that you know little to nothing about. Do what most of us have done; Play for at least 4-6 months, figure out why things are the way they are, and then if you so choose open your mouth and try to give suggestions. Right now, you are like a student in his first week at an automobile mechanics 101 course and trying to give ideas on how to completely redesign the internal combustion engine.
You're both right - all input from new players cannot possibly have any value. God forbid that someone could *possibly* think outside the box.
99% of the time, the "noob" is completely off-base. But dismissing it all means you miss the 1% that could be valuable. |
Varesk
Mafia Redux Black Legion.
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 01:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Angry Onions wrote:Interesting side note: Suicide gankers and high-sec miners seem to be the two most whiny demographics in EvE.
You forgot people camped in by AFK Cloakers. |
Alonzo Odantis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 02:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Daemon Ceed wrote:Alonzo Odantis wrote:The gambit of excuses for why i'm posting this is hilarious. I'm not a miner. I've been playing not quite 2 weeks now and all of my skillpoints so far are in basic stuff and combat oriented skills.
That's right. You've been playing barely 2 weeks and you want to try to start suggesting things in a game that you know little to nothing about. Do what most of us have done; Play for at least 4-6 months, figure out why things are the way they are, and then if you so choose open your mouth and try to give suggestions. Right now, you are like a student in his first week at an automobile mechanics 101 course and trying to give ideas on how to completely redesign the internal combustion engine.
and you're like a sad old man that still thinks his job as elevator operator matters.
You assume too much that i'm as slow at learning as yourself. I don't need 6 months to know that whining from carebear gankers is whining.
Whining isn't unique to eve. |
Cunanium
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 21:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:how is a gank "safe" if you are guaranteed to lose your ship in it?
It is "safe" because, outside of getting an optimal warp in on your target, there is no threat. You do not have to worry about jumping into a gate camp, drag bubbles, accidentally jumping into a system with 40+ reds in it who see red and go crazy running your ass into the ground. You don't have to worry about being sneaky and all the other nullsec/lowsec tricks for moving through space.
You are just average joe in a dessie or nado rolling around, moving from gate to gate. No one bothers you, no one cares until you warp in on a target. Thus, high sec ganking really isn't considered PVP because it lacks ALL of the typical dangers of real pvp, either through wardecs (high sec), or the typical risks associated with low/null.
Basically, they are guaranteed to get on their target without anyone else ******* with them.
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