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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.05.17 20:55:00 -
[1]
Trying to pick a battleship to store enmass when the FS calls for a BS fleet at close range. I'm think the Abaddon with a load out like:
Low: Damage Control II Low: EM Hardener II Low: Thermic Hardener II Low: Kinetic Hardener II x2 Low: Explosive Hardener II x2 Mid: Cap Recharger II x3 Mid: Heavy Capacitor Booster II w/ 800 chargers High: 8x Dual Heavy Beam Laser II (I consider rigs for this build optional) Rig: Anti-Thermic Pump I x2 Rig: Anti-EM I
Based on a all level 5 character Average Resist: 88.5% Effective HP: 133K
Taking leadership bonus the effective HP is 152K, if affected by a ganglink passive resist bonus the resist can go up to 90.3% resulting in an additional 10K HP.
The alternative or standard loadout: Low: Damage Control II Low: Armor Hardener II x4 (1 of each) Low: 1600mm Tech II plates or Rolled I's Mid: Same as above High: Same as above Rig: Trimark Armor Pump I x2 Rig: Anti-Explosive Pump I
I don't have EFT open but the effective HP is like an extra 100K and the average resist is around 80.
I like the Abaddon because of its tank, primarly its resist. The buffer tank is just there to keep you alive long enough until your fleet reppers target you. The higher resists make the fleet reppers more effective once they get to you, so that generally why I like the first loadout I listed.
I also like the Rokh because it can be fitted for close range and sniper range without changing anything but its guns, but its a shield tanker... and the fleet have a preference to armor tanking.
Any suggestions for large fleet close range bs are welcome.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.05.17 21:09:00 -
[2]
I'd store Geddons if you're going for en mass. The Abaddon is great, but expensive. ;-)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.05.17 21:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 17/05/2009 21:22:16 I looked at the Armageddon and Abaddon closely. The difference in cost is only about 10M ISK when the premium insurance is paid out. The Abaddon definitley has a much higher upfront cost (about 3 times) but the actually comparable lost ISK is smaller than one would think.
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2009.05.17 21:23:00 -
[4]
That build is horrific. Not only does it not have the optimal hardener layout for max tank (hint, its not all resist-specific active hardeners), but you state that your aim is to survive until you get remote reps from others. But, you're fitting neither remote reps yourself, NOR any real damage capability.
I.e. you are contributing nothing whatsoever to that fleet. You're a liability.
Compounded by the error of fitting cap rechargers (christ) on a subcapital ship, it couldn't be worse.
Start by defining what you WANT to do in that (presumably close range RR bs) gang. In the abaddon, you can either do RR or not (its a great boat for receiving it, but has cap issues giving it). What you should always do is damage. Fit minimum of 2 heat sinks, preferably 3 and t2 megapulses. The rest- combination of EANMs and plates. Fit a combination of cap booster, ECCM, sensor booster, point, to your liking. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.17 21:33:00 -
[5]
Quote:
Large Fleet OPs. What is the best close range BS?
Oxymoron, you don't really want to use close range BSs for large fleets, unless you are suicide bait or love to be primaried 100% of the time anyway.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.05.17 21:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 17/05/2009 21:44:34 Its a fitting for a large fleet op. For large fleet OPS the size of the fleet is going to be no less than 100 and normally around 300. All the repping is handled by logistics/carriers.
The goal is to be able to survive as long as possible when your ship is called primary. The reason why I avoided putting damage mods in the lows is because it takes away from the survivability of the ship. All that extra DPS isn't going to worth much if you go down quickly. The minimum requirements set by the FCs is to have your resists above 75 with an effective HP of 100K.
This build assumes there will be a ganglink bonus for the passive resist which makes have an ENAM II in place of a specific hardener less effective than a specific hardener.
If the FC says the BS are going to engage at 25KM and under than thats what were going to do. If the FC says BS are to be at sniper range 150KM+ than thats what I do, I'm just a soldier.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.17 21:57:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Quote: Oxymoron, you don't really want to use close range BSs for large fleets, unless you are suicide bait or love to be primaried 100% of the time anyway.
the OP specified that the entire fleet is setup like that. It's not an example of a lone rambo LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROY JENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINSing into a giant BS blob.
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AZN Steve
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.17 22:00:00 -
[8]
well it's still a lousy fit
here's more ehp and alot more dps :
high : 8 MPL II
med : heavy cap booster II sensor booster II disrupt II web II
low : 2 HS II 2 EANM II 2 1600mm RT plates DCU II
3 trimark
5 hammerhead II 5 warrior II
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Valenthe
Amarr Point of No Return Blade.
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Posted - 2009.05.17 22:17:00 -
[9]
In 100-300 fleet fights, if you are called primary it's game over anyway.
Just fit a semi decent buffer and try dish out as much DPS as you can whilst you're still alive.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.17 22:36:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Soporo on 17/05/2009 22:38:09
Originally by: Valenthe In 100-300 fleet fights, if you are called primary it's game over anyway.
Just fit a semi decent buffer and try dish out as much DPS as you can whilst you're still alive.
^^^ All things being equal a tank, any tank, in a fight that size might as well be an afterthought. But then again, depending on your foe, a DD capable tank these days is important. Oh, and everything outside of LowSuck (and a lot of things in that too) needs a speed mod.
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abrasive soap
Balls Deep Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.18 00:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Valenthe In 100-300 fleet fights, if you are called primary it's game over anyway.
Just fit a semi decent buffer and try dish out as much DPS as you can whilst you're still alive.
not entirely true
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Dan Glebitts
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Posted - 2009.05.18 10:25:00 -
[12]
I got as far as reading no plates for a fleet op and shook my head... then glimpsed the beams and Cap rechargers...
You can easily fit a gank'y' Abbadon that can put out just under 1k DPS and still have 130k EHP
Or if you prefer more of a tank 550 DPS and 217k EHP
Leave Beams for sniping, Leave cap rechargers for protracted POS shooting. Just leave filling your low slots with hardeners.
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Nova Satar
Annihilate.
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Posted - 2009.05.18 10:31:00 -
[13]
Phoon
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.05.18 10:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nova Satar Phoon
... or domi - putting the gist back into logistics |
Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:00:00 -
[15]
Why the Typhoon or Domi?
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:09:00 -
[16]
Can't go wrong with this:
[Abaddon, Lasers] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II
ECCM - Radar II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Anti-Explosive Pump I Anti-Kinetic Pump I Anti-Thermic Pump I
45km optimal should be sufficient for close range engagements.
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:13:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Khors on 18/05/2009 21:15:50 The abaddon Ive been using for rrbs gangs:
[Abaddon, pvp rr] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets ECCM - Radar II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
works great so far, but I wouldnt know exactly how it does under fire, since I haven't been called primary in it. EFT says ca 180k ehp though. EFT also says it deals glorious 700+ dps, but that's only when in close range. Usually it's scorch that is loaded, and drones are ****ing about on their own, more like 550dps or somewhere in that area.
I was concidering the geddon at first too, pretty much the same firepower, however harder to fit and less ehp. It's more a question of isk imo.
I dont know about other races either, but Mega's seem to be decent as well
edit: I guess lindsay beat me there
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 18/05/2009 21:15:49 Lindsay Logan, I like the mid slot configuration. The low slot/rigs would have to to be changed though as damage mods in the lows are currently advised against.
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:21:00 -
[19]
Abaddon is great choice, you can get by with cheaper rigs than geddon for same EHP and better resists and it¦s easier to fit on top of that.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:23:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Mykpilot on 18/05/2009 21:25:04
Originally by: Khors I was concidering the geddon at first too, pretty much the same firepower, however harder to fit and less ehp. It's more a question of isk imo.
The difference between the Abaddon and the Armageddon is really only in the upfront cost. The Abaddon does cost about 3 times as much to purchase and insure. However, the difference between the two ships after premium insurance payout is small, its between $10M-12M.
Which to me as long as you can pay the upfront costs, the Abaddon is the easy choice.
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mykpilot
Large fleet ops, not gangs.
Well, just my choice of words. Do I really need to say "fleet" for you to see its potential? Anyway, put it in a wing with damnation and you can get some extra shiny ehp out of it.
You will notice that it needs the capboosters to sustain fire, but in a large fleet fight there's gonna be alot of lag, so it's not gonna burn out as fast as you think. Smaller engagements are worse though
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mykpilot
The difference between the Abaddon and the Armageddon is really only in the upfront cost. The Abaddon does cost about 3 times as much to purchase and insure. However, the difference between the two ships after premium insurance payout is small, its between $10M-12M.
Which to me as long as you can pay the upfront costs, the Abaddon is the easy choice.
Putting together a fleet of 3-4 Abaddons is gonna run you alot more (up front) than a fleet of 3-4 Armageddons. And yes, up front cost matters when you only have 600M or so to throw at the project. ;-)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.18 21:48:00 -
[23]
Comedy close range fleet option: disco Apoc? It's been done at least twice to great success - if there have been lots of failures, I haven't heard about them. --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.05.18 22:35:00 -
[24]
ELECTRON DOMI!
[Dominix, Electron Domi] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II ECCM - Magnetometric II
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.05.18 22:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa ELECTRON DOMI!
[Dominix, Electron Domi] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II ECCM - Magnetometric II
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Comments: - T2 hvy booster if at all possible - T1 MWD, anything else is too spendy for no real reason - It handles like a brick, and thus I recommend D250 or 350mm rails instead, especially as gang size goes up. - Consider Garde II's (125), Bouncer II's (250), EC-600's (300), Med Armor Rep (350), Warrior II's (375). The Gardes can safely be traded for a set of 4 heavy rep drones and an extra set of Warrior II's.
However, I want to point out that this is a perfectly reasonable fit. I tend to prefer the Ion domi, but... /shrug
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Warrio
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.18 22:51:00 -
[26]
Apoc, Pulses, Plates, Computers. sXe |
Ahz
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Posted - 2009.05.18 23:26:00 -
[27]
Close range BS...Blasterthron?
Personally the only time I see BS in fleet it's for sniping. The close range stuff uses smaller, faster ships.
Therefore my close range fleet BS is an AC hurricane.
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