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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.20 18:41:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 20/05/2009 18:44:41
Originally by: Sep'Shoni
A corpmate tried that the other day. He was mining arkonor. It was going to take him 11 trips in and out of the wormhole to get a refinable quantity. I logged off before he was done, but not before he had competition from other players as well as the sleepers to evade.
He was having fun, which is the important part, but mining veld in a better ship would have earned more for the amount of time involved -- which is the root of the problem.
And you did not mention about the best sites having "electrical fields" dealing a periodic 500 damage, which basically kills any attempt with anything less than an hulk, plus forces miners to keep haulers dozens of kilometers off else they pop.
Yay efficiency and competitivity.
Edit: linky
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Jimmy Duce
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Posted - 2009.05.20 21:28:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 20/05/2009 18:44:41
Originally by: Sep'Shoni
A corpmate tried that the other day. He was mining arkonor. It was going to take him 11 trips in and out of the wormhole to get a refinable quantity. I logged off before he was done, but not before he had competition from other players as well as the sleepers to evade.
He was having fun, which is the important part, but mining veld in a better ship would have earned more for the amount of time involved -- which is the root of the problem.
And you did not mention about the best sites having "electrical fields" dealing a periodic 500 damage, which basically kills any attempt with anything less than an hulk, plus forces miners to keep haulers dozens of kilometers off else they pop.
Yay efficiency and competitivity.
Edit: linky
... Do you realize what you are saying. Veld is the most profitable and your solution is to INCREASE sources of the other not so profitable ores?... Again pointing out that this seems only to be about isk not fun.
About the guy making 11 trips to WH space. I know next to nada about what is needed to refine but I figure 1 mining barge full of any high end ore should be atleast a few mill, as one ret mining barge full of veld is easily 200K+. And you ever thought u could have helped him out? So instead of only one mining barge load u have barge + industrial?
I didn't know about the electrical field. Up until about 2 weeks ago I didn't even know there was ore in WH space. Repairing 500 every minute is what? 10dps? Yes I understand that it is a big wallup for a single ship but 2 things, buffer, shield boost. or have another more tanked ship with shield transponders. Yes... multiple ships. A baddger has what 5 mid slots? Easily able to buffer/resist/boost to suruvive.For some reason they actually want us to work together in the MMO. Someone in that linkie u posted said there was 450 mill in 1 field worth of ore. That's ore that nobody can "own" Nobody can truely gate camp. sure u need to keep your scanner up and keep a cloaked scout near the WH entrances etc. But still... 450 mill in 1 asteriod field well worth some risk.
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Tomoyuki
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Posted - 2009.05.21 02:05:00 -
[63]
After reading most of this topic I would say that we should not nerf mission runners income. I don't care as much as a miner but what I do care about is the respawn rate of the ores which is down right ridiculous. Moving from aoc when minerals will respawn completely after a few hours and then coming to Eve and waiting to the next downtime is down right stupid. I mean a lot of belts gets drained pretty quick and this is right after downtime.
For people that says well I seen a lot of belts that are not touched. Well I prefer to mine near my refinery that I have the highest standings so that kind of does restrict me more then mission runners where you can pick up missions anywhere.
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Silverace
NailorTech Industries Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.05.21 02:18:00 -
[64]
One idea is to make the acquisition of high-end minerals such as zydrine and megacyte possible only through mining high-end ores. This would give advanced miners an edge and a nice end-game for the professional miner. It would also enforce a more dynamic change in market prices for those minerals as wars break out in different parts of 0.0 which makes mining in those regions much harder at times.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar The Empire Nation Dead Mans Hand
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Posted - 2009.05.21 03:26:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jimmy Duce
About the guy making 11 trips to WH space. I know next to nada about what is needed to refine but I figure 1 mining barge full of any high end ore should be atleast a few mill, as one ret mining barge full of veld is easily 200K+. And you ever thought u could have helped him out? So instead of only one mining barge load u have barge + industrial?
different ores take different amounts of cargo space per ore unit. arachnor might be worth a lot, but its also very large. thus, it is impractical to mine without significant logistics, and these logistics cant be taken through a wormhole without collapsing it. not to mention the defense needed for a major mining op in w-space would be rediculous to defend the miners.
one does not simply mine high end ore.
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Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
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Posted - 2009.05.21 07:49:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Clansworth on 21/05/2009 07:49:31 well, when i was living in 0.0, I DID simply mine high end ore. Was making about 70 mil/hour on it back then. Me and a few friends roaming from belt to belt, mining in our tanked hulks, watching local.. larger ops had security one jump out, hauling the ore to POSs to await a scouted freighter run to outpost for refine. It worked well, and our income FAR outweighed any random losses we incurred. This was right before the Drone regions arrived. Times are a bit different now. You now make half as much on ABC ore, and with the higher population, the risk of intruders is proportionately higher.
Intel Boost |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.21 08:31:00 -
[67]
Quote:
... Do you realize what you are saying. Veld is the most profitable and your solution is to INCREASE sources of the other not so profitable ores?... Again pointing out that this seems only to be about isk not fun
Do you realize what are you quoting and reading?
The bad returns minerals are medium end, while the guy is talking about Arkonor.
Quote:
I know next to nada about what is needed to refine but I figure 1 mining barge full of any high end ore should be atleast a few mill, as one ret mining barge full of veld is easily 200K+. And you ever thought u could have helped him out? So instead of only one mining barge load u have barge + industrial?
This is your issue and why you should not post here.
Moreover, in case you missed it, "high end ores" don't have the same godly raw vs refined volume ratios of Veldspar.
Quote:
Repairing 500 every minute is what? 10dps?
Repairing 500 damage when your barge does not have 500 shield hit points to start with nor can anyway regen it before the next discharge, might be a decent issue in a WH. Those ships are not exactly known for the godly tank, nor the uber ability to fit reppers and keep up with the grid to keep strip miners running.
Quote:
A baddger has what 5 mid slots? Easily able to buffer/resist/boost to suruvive.For some reason they actually want us to work together in the MMO.
First of all you assume everyone got or can even fly badgers.
Second, that the poor man's profession can easily split revenues like that. If the revenues per character are **** poor alone, they turn to abysmal when using multiple.
If mining pre-requisites keep getting longer to still give visibly sub par money, why can you ie solo mission for more, without paying a second account, without teaming up with anyone?
"Work together" applies just to miners, to justify them having the bone?
Quote:
That's ore that nobody can "own" Nobody can truely gate camp. sure u need to keep your scanner up and keep a cloaked scout near the WH entrances etc. But still... 450 mill in 1 asteriod field well worth some risk.
So now we are up to 3 accounts, to still earn in 0.0 sec less than others do in high sec in solo. What's next?
Quote:
well, when i was living in 0.0, I DID simply mine high end ore. Was making about 70 mil/hour on it back then. Me and a few friends roaming from belt to belt, mining in our tanked hulks, watching local.. larger ops had security one jump out, hauling the ore to POSs to await a scouted freighter run to outpost for refine. It worked well, and our income FAR outweighed any random losses we incurred. This was right before the Drone regions arrived. Times are a bit different now. You now make half as much on ABC ore, and with the higher population, the risk of intruders is proportionately higher.
Yup, the past was decent, as you can also read on Halada's "The Complete Miner's Guide" and with Veldspar at the lowest (< 2 ISK pu) you'd still earn double than today. It was also the time when Isogen was the reference income source, while today its value is half of Veldspar.
Finally, alliances turned more and more restrictive about letting you go dig their limited ABC minerals (my miner's alliance policy is to pod you if you are found in the ABC roids systems even if you belong to their alliance) and the increased player base is adding to the competition on who manages to dig what.
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Tsual
Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal
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Posted - 2009.05.21 16:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jimmy Duce Returning to thread to point out that this is still an isk/hr argument and not a game improvement regarding making mining "fun".
Recource harvesting professions have a lot of grind in them and that does conflict with fun a lot. The other fact is that there are players that indeed enjoy the (dumb) repetitive nature of such grind. Last but not least isk per hour arguments do feel to me like e-peen waving mixed with inverse fishing for compliments by accusing the other side of having the bigger one.
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AFortuna
Caldari Lone Star Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.21 18:02:00 -
[69]
Why does it always have to be about the amount of ISK you can make? I wouldnt mind making the same ISK if they made mining FUN. I want to mine really I do, but its so boring that people end turning away from it.
Keep the same amount of income from mining, just make it more FUN TO DO! please :)
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Lokia Enroch
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Posted - 2009.05.21 20:13:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Lokia Enroch on 21/05/2009 20:16:26 A big problem with mining is that once you have Exhumers 5, Ice mining 5, and the processing skilsl for the 'high sec' ores to 4 or 5, you don't really have anymore way to speed or make mining faster or more effective.
A mission runner has so many different ways to approach running missions, that he can improve the speed, efficiency and effectivenss of running a mission. Its a progression not seen in mining really.
Mission runners progression:
LVL 1 Frig-small weapons LVL2 Cruiser Meduim weapons LVL3 Battle Cruiser Fitting skills LVL4 Battleship BS-Tank (~1 weeks) BS-Fitting for T2 Tank (1 week) BS-Better Fitting options (2 weeks) BS-Gank and T2 weapon skills (one month) BS-BS lvl 5 (One month) T2 BS (3 months)
For mining its: Frig Tier 1 mining barge Tier 2 mining barge Traing other misc mining yield skills to 5 (2 weeks) Wait 20-30 days Tier 3 mining barge (but dont' bother because...) Wait 5 days Hulk Spend two weeks while using T1 strip miners Start using Crystals for high sec ores after 1 day Stop
AT that point the only reason to continue training ANY mining related skills is because you have some low sec ores you are chomping at the bit to eat. But any alliance already has enough alts with Exhumers to mining for the minerals you can't buy for the cheap in mission hubs. They only need help mining the massive quantities of high sec minerals needed. As a mission runner, being able to fit a module that improves any measure of DPS boosts almost all (pvp included0 aspects of game play. For the miner the benefits are marginal or non-existent outside mining.
I am hoping to make some money mining in null sec, and support my new allaince, but looking at the belts, and taking logistics into consideration, it is almost the same amount of profit as mining veldspar in high sec with a few buddies for gang bonuses, and hauling benefits. If it was not for my desire to contribute to some of the massive invasions and defenses I read about on the forums and 3rd party forums. I'd still be in high sec, or had sold my clone to someone else. I had another clone that did missions for a crappy -14 agent, and in two hours I'd be 12-20 million richer for a ship I only spent 5 million SP training for.
And for missions, you don't have to join an alliance to do "hi end" missions.
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Jimmy Duce
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Posted - 2009.05.21 21:13:00 -
[71]
About those who want CCP to make it fun that's what I'm asking, how? Any suggestions? They made the lazors pretty, they made the roids realistic. But mining is very repetative. How do u make it fun? Someone said give the roids guns, maybe that's an idea.
About running out of skills to train you realize that you are pretty much saying the equivalent of training for all T2 frigates. There's just nothing else to do. Well... yeah kinda. The natural porogression is from miner-> industrialist. Then inventor. Then maybe go crazy and do some capital construction, which btw is heavy on the low end ores which is one of the reason trit is so high, all these cap ships needs tons and tons of trit.
About people not wanting miners... go to the recruitment channel and say I can fly a hulk and love mining. You'll be convoed by roughly 10 people.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.21 21:45:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Jimmy Duce About people not wanting miners... go to the recruitment channel and say I can fly a hulk and love mining. You'll be convoed by roughly 10 people.
Menial tasks and less-worthwhile profession always call for more people. The others do better stuff to bother with it.
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Crain Fraggs
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Posted - 2009.05.22 02:54:00 -
[73]
Haven't read it all, but checked all the links and saw it wasn't here yet:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/919549/page/1
hope they haven't forgotten about this
greetings, Crain
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.05.22 13:52:00 -
[74]
Trit costs 4.2 isk per unit when its supposed to cost 1 isk
How on earth can you ask for mission loot to be nerfed ? trit would sky rocket and your allready getting 400% its base value.
Mining community seems completelly unable to supple required quantities as it is and you want other sources cut ? lol
Rocks too small? As others have suggested open up a few missions and mine those and you'll be rolling in it.
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Lokia Enroch
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Posted - 2009.05.22 14:04:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Jimmy Duce ... About running out of skills to train you realize that you are pretty much saying the equivalent of training for all T2 frigates. There's just nothing else to do. Well... yeah kinda. The natural porogression is from miner-> industrialist. Then inventor. Then maybe go crazy and do some capital construction... About people not wanting miners... go to the recruitment channel and say I can fly a hulk and love mining. You'll be convoed by roughly 10 people.
The natural progression is to move from one profession, and to start all over again in another? And not only a whole new profession, but your previous skills help you in no way at all? The Gunnery Skills you learned doing the T2 frig are still valid skills, the fitting skills are still valid skills that you probably have to know to fly larger ships.
Do lvl 4 missions runners have to compete with their peers for missions? Do they compete for 'open' mission slots? No, they log on, hit accept, take there T2 fitted BS out, and earn roughly 20 mil an hour to include slavage and looting. They sell the salvage, Good modules and reprocessed loot (lol, high end ores). Not even a valid comparison.
It takes a well established production line, capital and time to make isk using the 'cradle to grave' method of mining, producing and selling. Older mission runners don't compete vs younger mission runners. But Older industrial players definitely compete against younger industrial players. And what happens is that prices go down and less money is made all around.
Mission runners don't have to compete like that.
And in the end I don't care really about how much money mission runners make. I don't. And I agree that mining needs to have a dynamic that makes it enjoyable, and worth the effort. My personal wish is this. Lower the duration on strip miners, to something very short, like 5 seconds.
Why? Because right now its a waste of time on some roids because they don't have enough to last the full cycle of a strip miner. "But, just use a scanner and turn it off at the right time!" No I want that scanner to do something useful, like FIND ORE. Turn it into a single purpose module that finds belts. "But Lokia, there are probes for that, you will invalidate them!" No it won't. Make it work like the ship scanner, forcing you to warp to planets.
Right now, in missions and exploration, you can find threads that complain about the effort it takes to find and complete Radar, Ladar, and Magnometric sites because of all the 'damn' gravimetric sites. Turn that relatively useless module into a bare necessity. This could cause a few things.
It might force out some macroing. I'd not say all because, I'm sure someone will figure it out. But it might help lower the level of minerals entering the market from it. This gives some added value to the 'real' miner. Take out static belt locations, everywhere. This has the added effect of masking miners in low sec from players intent on their demise by forcing them to use the same module. But in no way completely ensuring their safety. Make them smaller so that finding one is not a honey pot for several hours for a hulk.
This would affect ratters, but this is also a spur of the moment thought. As for recruitment. Most deals go like this. "We need someone to mine for us. We will pay you a fraction less than market for your minerals. In return for mining alone and unsupported, we will include you in our corp." How do combat clones get recruited. "We provide you with free <whatever> and action!" Not saying there are no good deals though.
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Callista Omenswarm
Astronautical Engineering
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Posted - 2009.05.22 15:00:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Lokia Enroch
Mission runners don't have to compete like that.
Except they do, Caldari mission running offers the worst rewards precisely because of all the competition.
AE's T1 BPC Store - Rigs, Ammo, Modules and Ships |
Tsual
Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal
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Posted - 2009.05.22 17:26:00 -
[77]
Easiest solution nerf med and high end outcome through item refining, however at the moment this can't be done due to code restrictions. It might be do-able by changing the way production works:
BPO's or the production process requires three different parts:
- Frame - this is the part of the item from which minerals can be recovered through reprocessing.
- Core - minerals in this section are so strongly interconnected that only a fraction of the original minerals can be regained.
- Composites - minerals in this sections are basicly lost as they have been chemically altered in the production process that they are unrecoverable
Before any item comes on the market it has to be pre-assembled through the bpo, meaning frame, core and composites are put together, basicly the process on the coding site works following:
While frame and core are building parts, composites are seen like tools that get damaged 100% in the pre-assembling process just named "consumables"/"wastage" or something like this.
The building process for core components is similar to the pre-assembling process just that here minerals are "consumables"/"wastage".
In so far reprocessing would first produce a frame and a core and this frame and core could be turned into minerals again.
just my two cents
(Would increase overhead in tech 1 production, and require an overworking of bpc/bpos including tech 1 and modified tech 1 items.)
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Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
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Posted - 2009.05.22 17:35:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tsual Easiest solution nerf med and high end outcome through item refining, however at the moment this can't be done due to code restrictions.
Actually, it COULD easily be done with minimal coding. If the item database is any indication, the materials used in producing an item, and the materials received from reprocessing that item, are actually two different numbers int he database. Just take the 2nd set, and go through and drop them all by 25%. Take a look at the bombs in the database. Their reprocess numbers are WAY different than the materials numbers. Linkage
Intel/Nomad |
Tsual
Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal
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Posted - 2009.05.22 18:03:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Tsual Easiest solution nerf med and high end outcome through item refining, however at the moment this can't be done due to code restrictions.
Actually, it COULD easily be done with minimal coding. If the item database is any indication, the materials used in producing an item, and the materials received from reprocessing that item, are actually two different numbers int he database. Just take the 2nd set, and go through and drop them all by 25%. Take a look at the bombs in the database. Their reprocess numbers are WAY different than the materials numbers. Linkage
Bombs are atypical as normally it's reprocess*(1+wastefactor/100) = mat. requirenments.
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Lokia Enroch
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Posted - 2009.05.22 19:32:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Callista Omenswarm
Originally by: Lokia Enroch
Mission runners don't have to compete like that.
Except they do, Caldari mission running offers the worst rewards precisely because of all the competition.
Ummm not the same, the 20mil/mission estimate is without taking LP into consideration. You are speaking about LP, right? If not, please explain yourself with this "My agent said he got three other guys to rescue the damsel so I'd have to offer to do it for less to get the job" business. And barring standings almost nothing stops you from using another NPC corp to run missions with. Nor does it stop you from hitting 'accept'. Mission make something out of nothing, production (the basis of your disagreement) takes something that is sold competitively, and turns it into something you have to sell competitively.
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Sep'Shoni
Gallente Carpe Diem inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:56:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 20/05/2009 18:44:41
Originally by: Sep'Shoni
A corpmate tried that the other day. He was mining arkonor. It was going to take him 11 trips in and out of the wormhole to get a refinable quantity. I logged off before he was done, but not before he had competition from other players as well as the sleepers to evade.
He was having fun, which is the important part, but mining veld in a better ship would have earned more for the amount of time involved -- which is the root of the problem.
And you did not mention about the best sites having "electrical fields" dealing a periodic 500 damage, which basically kills any attempt with anything less than an hulk, plus forces miners to keep haulers dozens of kilometers off else they pop.
Yay efficiency and competitivity.
Edit: linky
...
About the guy making 11 trips to WH space. I know next to nada about what is needed to refine but I figure 1 mining barge full of any high end ore should be atleast a few mill, as one ret mining barge full of veld is easily 200K+. And you ever thought u could have helped him out? So instead of only one mining barge load u have barge + industrial?
...
He wasn't in a mining barge. A mining barge wouldn't have lasted long enough to get in and out of the wormhole.
Sep'Shoni
Mining ore and making stuff. Its not just a job, its an obsession. |
dankness420
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Posted - 2009.05.23 18:25:00 -
[82]
Edited by: dankness420 on 23/05/2009 18:25:49 one thing that i noticed is that all of the super unprofitable ores are the crappy lowsec/empire ones with a high (400-500) amount required to refine them. maybe the amount required per batch should be lowered on the unprofitable crappy ores.
however i think that pyrite is the main problem. it is cheaper then trit because you dont need as much yet it is just as easy to get.
also give us a capital mining ship.
make it mine like maybe 10% more then a hulk but give it the maneuverability and cargo bay of an orca. 5 mid slots 4 lowslots and a 150m/3 drone bay. would cost around 800m isk
that way lowsec and 0.0 mining would get a boost. since its pretty much just a hulk with a larger cargo bay it wouldn't charge much in terms of making mining more profitable then it already is but it would give miners more progression after the hulk.
and since it would be a cap, people couldn't just sit in empire AFK with them and be able to mine trit even better while afk. it would make it much easier to mine out in 0.0 and due to the large cargo bay you could operate at a farther range then a hulk.
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Jimmy Duce
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Posted - 2009.05.24 15:17:00 -
[83]
More supply will make low sec ores even crappier.
About industry, ahh... not really. I'm pretty sure that some of the industry skills overlap with mining. And if you *like mining anyways and if you supply the minerals for contruction for yourself all the stages of profit is yours. That is why some people are willing/able to produce at extremely low profit margins because they consider it took them 3 hours to mine one BS and so sure they could have made 85 mill if they just sold the ore they only see the 90 mill from the sale of the BS.
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Gabber359
Caldari Gulliver Corp Prismatic Refraction
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Posted - 2009.05.24 21:48:00 -
[84]
I've been mining for over a year now and yes, it needs an overhaul. After all is said and done, there are two simple fixes that would boost mining profitability. 1) Nerf drone loot (drone regions ! Gah!) reprocessables. Give them bounties 2) Nerf (lvl4) mission loot drops/reprocessability
Those are the major things I'd like to see revised. The only thing I fear, is running out of beer! |
Seminole Sun
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Posted - 2009.05.25 03:11:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Gabber359
1) Nerf drone loot (drone regions ! Gah!) reprocessables. Give them bounties
This is the big one. I also think that the reprocessing of some stuff needs to be toned down with regard to Isogen and Nocxium. The loot from missions reprocesses to these at far too high a rate which is what's really tanking things like Omber and Jaspet. The profitability of ore mining should be fairly straightforward.
1 sec minerals < .5 sec minerals < low sec minerals < 0.0 minerals < Mercoxit
if the economics don't lead to that then they should be reviewed.
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Zarlis
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.25 06:54:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Salfulon Edited by: Salfulon on 18/05/2009 02:58:30 Edited by: Salfulon on 18/05/2009 02:58:05 I am forced to ask why CCP haven't completely revamped their mining game mechanics yet. It's no longer an effective primary means of mineral acquisition and currently yields less isk per hour than mission-running. When a specialised mining character with a year of industrial skills under their belt and an expensive tech 2 mining barge makes less than half as much isk as a six month old pilot in his first battleship,
it's a clear indicator that something is wrong.
Mining was something that ccp put in game back in 03 instead of content to keep people busy. It was buried years ago like all dead things should be so please stop digging up this stinking corpse.
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Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
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Posted - 2009.05.25 08:02:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Avalon Champion on 25/05/2009 08:02:32
Originally by: Gabber359
1) Nerf drone loot (drone regions ! Gah!) reprocessables. Give them bounties
One of the few thing that makes the drone regions worth anything is the drone compounds. About 3 years ago the then inhabitants of the drone regions, where complaining about the crap spawns and how ratting wasnt worth it becuase of the 0 isk bounties and crap drops. So CCP buffed them to be equivalent of other 0.0 regions.
The LvL4 vs Mining arguments always amuse me, Lvl 4's are quite capable of yielding on average 20mil, but to get near that you need to have pretty good skills, maybe 10-15mil with average skills, and an 8-9 month old char, as far as competition goes, there is none except for ninja salvagers/looters and they only hang around the mission hubs.
Nerfing mission loot, i agree someinthing needs to be done, drop the mid range mins by 15% and high end by 25%. The down side to this that some mineral compression will suffer.
CCP have been giving industry some love int he last couple of patches, firstly the Rorqual, then the ORCA, cheaper hulks, anyone else remember when hulks cost about 500mil-1bil, now you can pick them up for 100mil.
Back to the OP, I personally find mining relaxing as it is, so how do CCP make mining more 'FUN', I've read a couple of the quoted threads before, the one that Crain linked is one of the best, and from what i remember was a dev chat at last years Fan fest, and based on ive seen and read, CCP have introduced some of those features in WH space, Eg Non-static belts, Random Events.
It would be a minor change to make all belts non-static, the problem is balance, ensuring that the belts have the same base quantity as current systems. Making them scanable will remove 90% of bots, although, you would just need to find the belt then set the bot to warp in and start.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.05.25 11:23:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Salfulon It's no longer an effective primary means of mineral acquisition and currently yields less isk per hour than mission-running. When a specialised mining character with a year of industrial skills under their belt and an expensive tech 2 mining barge makes less than half as much isk as a six month old pilot in his first battleship,
it's a clear indicator that something is wrong.
Mining always has, and always will earn less than mission running no matter what you do, because the simple fact is, you can sit in a belt with 6-7 accounts for the same amount of effort that it takes to run just a couple in missions. Effort = ISK. You can go AFK while mining and while your income will stop in a short while, you don't have to worry about dying in highsec. Basically, it's heaps easier so takes heaps less isk.
Now in 0.0 the rewards are more on par, but then you can't exactly run 6-7 accounts risk-free in 0.0.
I'm not saying mission running is by any stretch 'hard' just that mining scales better in terms of how many simultaneous accounts a non-macroer can use. Unfortunately if you only play with one account, you're still going to be subject to this rule, since mining income is determined by the amount mined vs the demand, and people with multiple accounts will turn to mining over mission running at the first sign of mining becoming anywhere near the value of mission running.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.25 12:19:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Capn' Krunch
Originally by: Callista Omenswarm know of any level 4 mission ships you can cobble together for 150mil?
Yes, you can build a very capable mission running dominix on that budget.
Or a perfectly good raven.
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Sim Cognito
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Posted - 2009.05.25 18:08:00 -
[90]
I believe that the issues we are discussing in this thread along with the procurer and the covetor mining barges(which are very problematic and do not have an everyday use for miners etc there are tons of threads about them)should be brought up to the new CSM. |
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