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Zheren Huli
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Posted - 2009.05.19 23:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zheren Huli on 19/05/2009 23:07:47 Hi there.
As the topic says raise this threat to make the following changes regarding this devblog:
New Dev Blog: Overview changes in Apocrypha 1.2
with this change exspecialy lowsec gets us a little in trouble. why? because of this:
-5 person = outlaw = solid red backround -5 to -10 person = solid red backround
dont forget this goes for standings from yourself aswell as for standing from your corp/alliance towards a hostile corp/alliance which surely will not only have -5 member.
now who has the time to check up on this in lowsec? how much people will now fall for gategunfire because they dont want the possible outlaw to escape?
meanwhile wartargets in empire = red flashy.
i say why not just make outlaws AND wartargets flashy? they are both shootable anywhere on sight it wont make much of a difference. |
Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.05.19 23:17:00 -
[2]
A TIMELINE OF SELECTED EVENTS
<-|---------------|----------------|----------------|--> Dinosaurs.......Jesus..............YOU..............Now
Also, it's not hard to make your own overview settings. You're asking for trouble using the default settings.
Really, they did this for the benefit of new players. It's not a bad thing.
No support. |
Zheren Huli
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Posted - 2009.05.19 23:21:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lucas Tigh A TIMELINE OF SELECTED EVENTS
<-|---------------|----------------|----------------|--> Dinosaurs.......Jesus..............YOU..............Now
Also, it's not hard to make your own overview settings. You're asking for trouble using the default settings.
Really, they did this for the benefit of new players. It's not a bad thing.
No support.
maybe where the You is you should write I.
just as example. imagine you are a member of cva which have to maintain nrds in their 0.0 space. and with all that -5 to -10 standings FROM YOUR ALLIANCE IF YOU DONT GET IT! you have now to fly through lowsec domain like they do too.
now how do you think how much small cruiser / frigate pilots will die to gategun fire cause they now see redsolid backround as outlaw?
it just makes it easier to see than a small colortag and people will use it. but for using it you are screwed not the way it should be. |
Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.05.19 23:27:00 -
[4]
Perhaps I should have noted that the timeline was there to point out that this has already happened. Both your post and thread title make it sound as if it has yet to happen.
To refute your extremely situational example, again, Apocrypha 1.2 only changes the default overview settings. It was done for the benefit of new players. You can still modify it to your own liking. And again, most if not all members of a serious (heh) space holding alliance like CVA will have their own custom overview settings, which this patch does not mess with (save the bit that blues now show up as reds sometimes due to changed priorities on the display, but that's easily fixed ). |
Zheren Huli
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Posted - 2009.05.19 23:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lucas Tigh Perhaps I should have noted that the timeline was there to point out that this has already happened. Both your post and thread title make it sound as if it has yet to happen.
oh really? would have never noticed it was in the new patch... oh wait several servercrashes cause of it.
stil if you did read the threat you see i complained before about it.
Originally by: Lucas Tigh
To refute your extremely situational example, again, Apocrypha 1.2 only changes the default overview settings. It was done for the benefit of new players. You can still modify it to your own liking. And again, most if not all members of a serious (heh) space holding alliance like CVA will have their own custom overview settings, which this patch does not mess with (save the bit that blues now show up as reds sometimes due to changed priorities on the display, but that's easily fixed ).
modifing it yourself stil dont changes the fact that it would be the easiest to have wartargets and outlaws both flashy which is what i suggest.
to identify someone by a small colortag seconds after he decloaks for a gatejump for example is lesslikely than when you see the whole red bar turn red / flashy.
as it is now people who have solid red backround for horrible standing selected just to see their enemys easy will now have a hard time once they change from 0.0 to lowsec. if you would clear me up what the exact problem would be in having wartargets aswell as outlaws flashy? |
Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.05.19 23:46:00 -
[6]
No, you're wrong. The change was brought in 1.2. That was days ago. 1.2.2, which was pushed today, brought minor changes. Today is when the server crashed.
You linked the dev blog where they make the announcement. The reasoning is there, and it's sound.
And again, if you refuse to change your overview settings to your own liking so that you always know what you're dealing with, that is not my nor anyone else's problem. |
Zheren Huli
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Posted - 2009.05.19 23:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lucas Tigh No, you're wrong. The change was brought in 1.2. That was days ago. 1.2.2, which was pushed today, brought minor changes. Today is when the server crashed.
You linked the dev blog where they make the announcement. The reasoning is there, and it's sound.
And again, if you refuse to change your overview settings to your own liking so that you always know what you're dealing with, that is not my nor anyone else's problem.
complaining for a possible change at todays patch maybe vOv?
stil waiting for you answer on why its bad to have wartargets aswell as outlaws flashy which is the only suggestion i am making in this thread just in case you missed it. |
Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.05.19 23:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zheren Huli complaining for a possible change at todays patch maybe vOv?
Today's patch:
-Modules will no longer be subject to an activation delay when a ship has de-cloaked after jumping through a stargate. -Storyline missions have been fixed and will now be offered correctly. Any storyline missions that you have already qualified for will now be offered. -Station environments will no longer move with you when you use the clone jump service. -Fixed an issue that would cause the ships and items panels to not display correctly when the load station environment option was unchecked. -Numerous server side issues have been fixed.
So no, you're not complaining about a change from today's patch. Hence my "God, you're late" reaction.
Originally by: Zheren Huli stil waiting for you answer on why its bad to have wartargets aswell as outlaws flashy which is the only suggestion i am making in this thread just in case you missed it
From my post above: "You linked the dev blog where they make the announcement. The reasoning is there, and it's sound."
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Zheren Huli
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Posted - 2009.05.20 00:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Zheren Huli on 20/05/2009 00:13:18 Edited by: Zheren Huli on 20/05/2009 00:12:06 Edited by: Zheren Huli on 20/05/2009 00:04:55
Originally by: Lucas Tigh
blabla
So no, you're not complaining about a change from today's patch. Hence my "God, you're late" reaction.
Originally by: Zheren Huli stil waiting for you answer on why its bad to have wartargets aswell as outlaws flashy which is the only suggestion i am making in this thread just in case you missed it
From my post above: "You linked the dev blog where they make the announcement. The reasoning is there, and it's sound."
you really dont get that i was aming for an also blinky in todays patch well whatever...
to your "and it's sound" i think its far from. just take this passage:
||| The current defaults, where only outlaws are set to blink, is rather unintuitive - the blink seems to suggest that there's a great deal of urgency involved, but people who are just outlaws can't actually legally shoot you. By contrast, war targets are currently non-blink by default, despite the fact that they can shoot you at will. |||
i bolted the funny part as outlaws will shoot you no matter if its legal or not ironicaly thats why they are called outlaws. also its "urgent" when you consider the flashy guys in highsec "until now" were mostly suicide ganker (aside from the average shuttle / interceptor traveler who appears some semi few seconds on your overview).
what looks more dangerous, a simple red button or a flashy red one?
also let us take into account the differenece between a wartarget and an outlaw:
wartarget is shootable without begin attacked by gateguns. outlaw is shootable without being attacked by gateguns.
wartarget can shoot us without being attacked by gateguns. outlaw will be attacked by gateguns *this is only in our favor when we dont attack first so it dont makes a huge difference except that it would be a positive thing for us if they started so its in our favor and who would mind that?*
wartarget can jump to highsec after deagressing. outlaw can jump to highsec after deagressing *will either be killed by concord or the faction police will web him for warp out so its a 50% 50% thing, non the less it works again in our favor* |
Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.05.20 00:12:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lucas Tigh on 20/05/2009 00:15:41
When will you understand that this is for newbies? If Billy McNoobcorp see something flashy red on his overview, he's going to think that it poses a threat, or he's going to shoot at it.
Or both.
I'm unsure how outlaw mechanics work in highsec. (Yes, I realize they will get shot by faction police, but it's possible to tank those for a time.) Do people that fire on an outlaw get marked as legal targets for said outlaw? If so, it seems that poor old Billy is now in dire straits. If not, meh.
The point is that CCP wanted to polish off an aspect of the game that could end up frustrating a lot of newbies. It is not their problem, or anyone else's, if you are too lazy to change your overview settings from the default. As such, this issue is hardly worthy of the Assembly Hall, where people raise issues that CCP and CCP alone can fix.
Edit: You said, "i say why not just make outlaws AND wartargets flashy? they are both shootable anywhere on sight it wont make much of a difference." And I say, why not just get off your ass and change it yourself? If that's how you want it, fine, but don't go thinking that it should be that way for everyone else. |
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Zheren Huli
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Posted - 2009.05.20 00:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zheren Huli on 20/05/2009 00:27:48 Edited by: Zheren Huli on 20/05/2009 00:27:25
Originally by: Zheren Huli
Originally by: Lucas Tigh Edited by: Lucas Tigh on 20/05/2009 00:13:22 When will you understand that this is for newbies? If Billy McNoobcorp see something flashy red on his overview, he's going to think that it poses a threat, or he's going to shoot at it.
thats exactly what it does. if hes going to shoot it well i dont think people except really stupid once will try to kill a ship 2-3times their size. sure you can argue with t2 frigs but those wont attack you under gatefire so vOv...
Originally by: Lucas Tigh Edited by: Lucas Tigh on 20/05/2009 00:13:22
Or both.
I'm unsure how outlaw mechanics work in highsec. (Yes, I realize they will get shot by faction police, but it's possible to tank those for a time.) Do people that fire on an outlaw get marked as legal targets for said outlaw? If so, it seems that poor old Billy is now in dire straits. If not, meh.
The point is that CCP wanted to polish off an aspect of the game that could end up frustrating a lot of newbies. It is not their problem, or anyone else's, if you are too lazy to change your overview settings from the default.
so how often do you see outlaws fight at highsec gates? its not sustainable as faction police AND gateguns shoot you, so yeah really good point. see my analogy post above.
if a person turns flashy from stealing your ore wow now he turns red and the person who was in lowsec before and saw red or got killed of by them would surely not do the same...
Originally by: Lucas Tigh Edited by: Lucas Tigh on 20/05/2009 00:13:22 As such, this issue is hardly worthy of the Assembly Hall, where people raise issues that CCP and CCP alone can fix.
really issues like that one where you didnt even read the devblog? yeah sure |
Zheren Huli
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Posted - 2009.05.20 00:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Zheren Huli on 20/05/2009 00:27:06 wrong button grr 2.30am :P |
Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.05.20 00:38:00 -
[13]
I never said that Sleeper drones attacking fit in the heretofore established cannon. I just supported it. It would be hilarious. Nice job using ad hominem attacks to try to prove me wrong...from a completely separate discussion.
And the point still stands that this is no one else's problem. |
Zheren Huli
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Posted - 2009.05.20 00:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lucas Tigh I never said that Sleeper drones attacking fit in the heretofore established cannon. I just supported it. It would be hilarious. Nice job using ad hominem attacks to try to prove me wrong...from a completely separate discussion.
And the point still stands that this is no one else's problem.
u mad?
its stil a thing only ccp can change from what its now or you ganna tell me where the field is so i can turn on blinky for other tags than war/milita target?
acctualy outlaw bold red vs bold red low standing is a problem a lot people will face but sure have your oppinion.
i really would like to have the oppinion of a member of the cva block on this who work in both lowsec and 0.0 and enforce a playstyle *nrds* that is heavy influenced by this. |
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