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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.20 09:33:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rajere on 20/05/2009 09:35:37 When these were first put on SiSi they were originally getting Cov Cloak & Cov Cyno ability. For some reason I guess dev's thought that would be too powerful(?) so they rolled out to TQ with only the Cov Cloak bonus listed. Yesterday's patch updated/rolled back the item description on the Covert Reconfigs, and now they say you can fit a Covert Cyno (but you actually can't).
Could a dev/gm or anyone who knows confirm if this was simply a mistake in rolling back the item description to the previous entry which listed Cov Cynos, or confirm that you do intend for Strategic Cruisers with Cov Reconfig subsystem to be able to use them, but the code is bugged or something preventing them from being equipped on TQ at this time?
Here's a screen shot from TQ:
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.20 14:17:00 -
[2]
Oh come on CCP, this should be a simple answer.
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.05.20 16:30:00 -
[3]
Some kind of clarification would be nice.
Personally, I think its entirely appropriate that the t3 ships get a covert cyno along with a covert cloak. Would give that particular set-up a much more focused 'recon' style, and kinda justify how much it kicks the crap out of your damage.
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Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.05.20 21:25:00 -
[4]
Did you bug report it? I got a fairly fast reply when I bug-reported an inconsistency in the old Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating description.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.20 21:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arushia Did you bug report it? I got a fairly fast reply when I bug-reported an inconsistency in the old Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating description.
I've got bug reports from November 2008 still unanswered, but sure, I just bug reported it, guess it will keep my other bug reports company.
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.21 15:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rajere on 21/05/2009 15:07:37 Got a response to my bug report:
Quote: This report has been attached to a defect
Ok, that still doesn't answer my question though, which is the defect?
A: The item description text got rolled back to previous version is the defect, they are not getting a bonus to fit Covert Cynos B: The item description was updated to the new version, they are supposed to be able to fit covert cynos, the fact that they cannot is the defect.
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.22 06:21:00 -
[7]
bump :/
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.23 11:50:00 -
[8]
Still no word? very simple clarification is all that i'm asking for.
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Lazarann
Caldari Balls Deep Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:59:00 -
[9]
If the patch notes also say that the covert cyno can be fitted, I would assume the 'defect' probably refers to the fact that you can't seem to fit it. For the record, I tried to fit it in EFT and it wouldn't let me either.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.23 22:38:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Rajere on 23/05/2009 22:38:30 patch notes said nothing about the Covert Cyno or the covert reconfig subsystem. And you can fit it in the latest version of EFT, just can't fit it in game.
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.25 00:49:00 -
[11]
Still need to know the answer, I've also updated my bug report asking for clarification...
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Lefevre
Caldari The Glenn Quagmire Finishing School for Young Ladies
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Posted - 2009.05.25 09:51:00 -
[12]
"and now they say you can fit a Covert Cyno (but you actually can't)."
bump for CCP response! - -
Chode Rizoum http://gigkb.skullone.net/?a=homehttp://gigkb.skullone.net/?a=home[/url][/url]
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CCP Oneiromancer
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Posted - 2009.05.25 12:53:00 -
[13]
The defect was with the subsystem description, which incorrectly stated that you can fit a covert cynosural field generator.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.25 16:19:00 -
[14]
Thanks for the clarification
*note to self, have Lefevre bump all threads I need CCP response too* |
Witchking
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.04 14:30:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Witchking on 04/06/2009 14:33:52 Edited by: Witchking on 04/06/2009 14:31:56
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer The defect was with the subsystem description, which incorrectly stated that you can fit a covert cynosural field generator.
I don't buy this, I suspect perhaps there was some difficulty in implementing this and now the dev team is backpedalling. How about paying a bit more attention to the blackops battleship functionality instead of constantly neglecting them?
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey!
Sorry for not being very vocal on the forums, I have been reading them, but haven't really given myself time to post. Here's a small update.
Note: bonuses might change around slightly but you should get the general idea and goal of each subsystem.
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.
4th Offensive subsystem:
Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.
4th Defensive Subsystem:
Warfare link bonuses. Only one warfare link at a time, but with a higher bonuses.
4th Propulsion Subsystem:
Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.
4th Engineering Subsystem:
Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.
4th Electronic Subsystem:
A simple CPU bonus to scan probe launchers, allowing you to fit an expanded probe launcher with ease, along with a nice 10% increase to scan strength of probes, making it an very good scanning platform. In addition to this they'll give a tractor beam range / velocity bonus.
These are in authoring right now, so you can expect to see them on Singularity very soon. I'm working on getting the subsystems re-seeded, should happen very soon.
Also. The price, don't panic quite yet, we're still confident the price will go down.
Comments!
So... why did you change this?
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achoura
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Posted - 2009.06.04 16:25:00 -
[16]
Isn't it obvious? Having a ship in eve that can both cloak and fit covert cynos would not only be horribly over-powered but also overpower black ops. Oh wait... ***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Ari Chu
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.06.05 19:45:00 -
[17]
More ships able to use the Cov Cyno seems like a great idea to me, and T3 ships seem like good candidates to have the option.
I'm all for allowing it.
---
"The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers. |
Tainted Vixen
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.06.06 09:23:00 -
[18]
How is this a defect if it was included in the description of the subsystem, and listed as a feature in the 4th subsystem post?
I can just go back to using an Arazu, but why again is this a defect? |
Doom Dominix
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Posted - 2009.06.06 10:36:00 -
[19]
What the f-word? Are we entitled for reimbursement if we bought a Loki (or any other T3) and it's fitting under the premise of being able to fit a covert cyno generator?
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Jita Johnny
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Posted - 2009.06.06 22:41:00 -
[20]
Thank God for this, because otherwise black ops BS would become dangerous overpowered |
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p1ss
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Posted - 2009.06.07 01:24:00 -
[21]
The defect was with the subsystem description, which incorrectly stated that you can fit a covert cynosural field generator.
Speaking as someone who just put out nearly 1.5 bil to buy this ship for that purpose, this is load of crap. It was clearly stated to have this ability ccp intended for it to have it and they should live up to its commitment and make it happen. Giving this this ability does nothing to the power of blackop ships it just put another big ticket item on the field which could be ganked by anyone with half a brain. unfortunately the ones that whine about blackop are the ones that can't figure out how to avoid them. Come on ccp do what is right give the ship its advertised ability.
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iuricel
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:50:00 -
[22]
I would like to know why the decsion was made to remove it, or rather not to add it? Obvious at one point someone thought it was a good idea but for whatever reason it got dropped. Maybe because it would make black ops less useless and we cant have that
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Azuse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:15:00 -
[23]
You must admit it's somewhat ironic that while every other ship designed for cynos is capable of using cov ops ones, the ship most capable infiltration ships in the game (most advanced, most expensive, highest sp, highest risk etc. etc.) is incapable of using them.
I mean if you take a the cov ops ss and add the interdiction ss then have the the infiltration ship, there is no contest. It's illogical to create a ship capable of filling a niche roll more effectively than any other then removing it's ability to do so. On the plus side, as the prices come down and the ships more into the reach of more pilots this thread will only increase in length and hopefully yield some constructive feedback.
With that in mind i'd like to add, and i suspect this is why it was pulled, that any ship capable of being part of a b. ops gang not only needs the ability to use covert cynos also requires the ability to travel as part of the gang i.e. use covert portals. We know black ops are at some point, along with all other jump capable ships, getting their own fuel bays but lets assume that simultaneously that added cov cynos and the use of jump portals to t3. You would be able to move scouts, bombers, recons, fire-power in the case of the bs and cov ops t3 which is essentially a hac with different strengths. It would move them from niche to mainstream viable tactics. The chaos you could cause once you factored in wh..
In any case that's the real beauty of the modular design, they can add abilities to sub-systems without disturbing he balance of the ships. Still, we live in hope.. -------------------------
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:27:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Rajere on 08/06/2009 16:33:35 Um the Covert Reconfiguration subsystem never had the ability to fit a Covert Cyno on Tranquility. It was only on SiSi and it was pulled before they released the 4th sub-systems to TQ. The description of the subsystem was accurate from release until the 2nd fail patch a few weeks ago, Hence this thread (1.2.2.3.4? The patch to fix the jump bug they managed to patch in, cus they were too stubborn to simply roll back the cloak patch so they had to patch the patch)
So anyone who bought a T3 specifically for this ability have only themselves to blame. In the future it would be wise to A: read TQ patch notes instead of SiSi and B: I dunno, read GD forum, like this thread maybe?
PS: The Covert Reconfiguration Subsystem does grant Jump Harmonics 2, thus T3 with this subsystem are able to use a Covert Jump Bridge...So if you want to bridge a ship with 1/3-1/2 the DPS of a blackops into an engagement, you may do so, for only 2-3x the cost of a BOs.
PPS: There's really no reason to want to fit a Covert Cyno on a T3 cruiser anyway. This thread, this inquiry was purely academic. Seriously. any gang/ship/circumstances that can pop a 75k EHP force Recon in 30 seconds, can also pop a 150k EHP T3 cruiser in 60 seconds...Only reason I was even interested was in the extremely slim possibility that the 5th Subsystem lets you add a Interdiction Probe Launcher or WDFG....snowball's chance in hell basically. And if they do add a bubble launcher, then you'd want to fit a regular Cyno anyway cus the only real advantage that gives you is a Covert Cloaking Bubble ship that's got enough EHP to survive multiple DDs :)
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Azuse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 17:08:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Azuse on 08/06/2009 17:08:37 If by no reason you mean having a cov ops ship immune to bubbles, therefore able to move it's gang anywhere unhindered by deploying a covert cyno that no one can find at a safe spot does not count then no, there is no reason.
We fly cov ops with covert cynos to both scout and infiltrate, but negotiating five large bubbles plus substantial camp is still difficult where as one of these with the interdiction ss simply presses cloak and warp. Add in the fact it can probe as effectively while both dealing and absorbing damage (lokis for example can do 400 dps) and you just might find people are interested in it.
Also, once you reach this level of play cost moves from a prohibiting factor to a simple factor and remember, the current prices are still falling from the introduction. Even if they fail to reach the 300m ccp target (unlikely given the dt tweaks to whs) not having to worry about bubbles is a huge selling point. It allows you total freedom in 0.0 which is practically priceless.
That aside, it still raises the question as to why every other cloak/cyno capable ship can utilise both types, why this one also could initially, but now cannot. |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.06.09 04:24:00 -
[26]
It never had the ability on Tranquility.
Yeah, bubble immunity is way more convenient, it would certainly save time while traveling to your destination, but unless your covert pilots are terrible all it does is save time. If the gate camp is as heavily manned as you describe then it's not like you're going to be popping a covert in that system anyway. Also I certainly wouldn't assume you're immune to probing, you're stuck in space uncloaked for a full 60 seconds which is more than enough time to narrow you down unless you're in a deep safe (this is ignoring the fact that popping cyno's at safe spots is somewhat counter-productive and diminishes much of the advantage that the BO's have).
Basically if I can navigate my way through a mass of bubbles and light tackle ships in a dual trimarked/dual 1600 plated Pilgrim then your covops frigates can to. T3 offers convenience no doubt but any other covert cloaking ship has the ability to go anywhere just as well, it simply takes a bit of time. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.09 06:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Azuse It's illogical to create a ship capable of filling a niche roll more effectively than any other then removing it's ability to do so.
The original idea of T3 was a generalist ship capable of filling several niches (changing modules) not better than T2. The advantage should be the capability to change role with a fast stop in a station, not in being better at a specific niche role than other ships.
so probably the capability was removed exactly because it was making the class better than any other specialist ships at fillling this specific role.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.06.09 08:52:00 -
[28]
we actually don't mind the subsystem having the ability to fit a covert cyno. The issue we encountered was our use of new fitting restrictions was never really meant for subsystems and we have to wait for code changes to allow that happen or revert the covert cyno back to using a good old cpu based fitting restriction.
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Anderson
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.09 16:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis we actually don't mind the subsystem having the ability to fit a covert cyno. The issue we encountered was our use of new fitting restrictions was never really meant for subsystems and we have to wait for code changes to allow that happen or revert the covert cyno back to using a good old cpu based fitting restriction.
Thank you :D Good times to be had with T3 + BOps
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Mike C
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.06.09 18:06:00 -
[30]
Tried it earlier, and apparently Strategic Cruisers with the covert subsystem can use a Black Ops' jump portal. Is this a bug, feature or "unintended feature"? |
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