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Tal Nok
Amarr DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2009.05.21 13:25:00 -
[1]
In relation (warning - graphic content but it's on CNN) to this video, from time to time in the States, we hear a lot of these stories.
If you were faced with the situation (but not knocked out as the guy in the video and you were 100% innocent of anything), but had a way to defend yourself, would you? How far would you go to make sure your life is no longer in danger by crooked FUBAR cops?
I have a concealment license and as such, keep a loaded pistol in my car with two extra clips all the time. I also have a stun gun which stays in the car as well (been used often unfortunately due to drunkards).
By United States Law, accross all 50 states and it's territories, you are able to use a weapon if your life is in immediate danger. However, if your life is in danger because of crooked cops, and you end up shooting them, you will 99% get shot if not fatally wounded yourself, for taking out a cop by another cop reguardless of the situation once "officer down" has been called.
So take the beating, possibly lose your life and sue later? Attempt to subdue the officer with greater firepower / stun his face off? What's your take?
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY.
Need sacrifice.
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.21 13:31:00 -
[2]
The jackass had it coming
Pomp FTW!!! |
Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.21 13:32:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grez on 21/05/2009 13:32:48 Why are you talking about guns?
Don't be a ****ing moron, and don't get the beating you deserve. Problem solved. --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.05.21 13:40:00 -
[4]
Simple really. Do not agitate the cops. Treat them like dangerous animals that will rip you to shreds if you give them an excuse to do so. No need to suck up either, staying cold and factual is probably more effective.
As soon as you raise a hand(gun) against a cop, you will be drowned in charges or bullets. It is foolish to start a fight you can't win. The (law) system is set up specifically to leave you in a no-win situation when dealing with cops. Best you can hope is someone filming the happening and making it public. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:00:00 -
[5]
Well, loathe as I am to condone police beatings, their reaction can hardly be surprising considering he tried to run over one of their colleagues.
It's not very professional of the police to go steaming in like that (especially seeing the way the suspect was hurled from the vehicle, the cop could have been clubbing a corpse for all he knew), but we often forget that they are prone to all the same emotions that we are. When someone takes down one of their number, they will be liable to be trigger happy.
This trick is not to **** the cops off in the first place.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tal Nok I have a concealment license and as such, keep a loaded pistol in my car with two extra clips all the time. I also have a stun gun which stays in the car as well (been used often unfortunately due to drunkards).
was your life in danger or do you simply like electrocuting drunks who are minding their own business stumbling home because you'll get away with it
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Mr Reeth
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Abrazzar Simple really. Do not agitate the cops. Treat them like dangerous animals that will rip you to shreds if you give them an excuse to do so. No need to suck up either, staying cold and factual is probably more effective.
As soon as you raise a hand(gun) against a cop, you will be drowned in charges or bullets. It is foolish to start a fight you can't win. The (law) system is set up specifically to leave you in a no-win situation when dealing with cops. Best you can hope is someone filming the happening and making it public.
Pretty much this.
But in a hypothetical situation where a cop was actually trying to kill me I would kill him first if I could and turn myself in immediately. But I would definitely want to turn myself over to the state police rather than the local police.
And at the first chance I got I would move very far from where it happened.
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:15:00 -
[8]
You know I am pleased these police office got fired! Yes It was bad that he almost had a police officer! tho give you no right to lower your self to the people commits the crime to beat the crap out of them. They had him when he crashed and he off to jail!
Your in the Police force to be professional. We expect the same from the armed forces! but sadly I think Officer in US can take the **** on many cases and act they are the law not enforcing the law. I am so applying to join the Police force but I assure you I not going to lower my self to these guys.
Don't get me wrong but I support officer for there work but at a professional standards not this. Same I support the troops at a professional standards.
Trinity Corporate Services |
Tal Nok
Amarr DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gneeznow was your life in danger or do you simply like electrocuting drunks who are minding their own business stumbling home because you'll get away with it
Others lives were in danger. I'm not suprised however, that you actually asked that question.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY.
Need sacrifice.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Abrazzar Simple really. Do not agitate the cops. Treat them like dangerous animals that will rip you to shreds if you give them an excuse to do so. No need to suck up either, staying cold and factual is probably more effective.
I've always noticed that people in other countries (I'm in the UK) seem to be genuinely afraid of their Police and will go out of their way to act timid if they are pulled over or stopped in the street and asked a question.
I noticed this especially last summer when in Berlin. We were waiting for a train at Ostkreuz and there were several Bundespolizei on the upper platform. As soon as anyone came up the stairs they would subconsciously move alone the platform away from the officers, whilst me and my friend were the only ones standing up where the officers were.
It was pretty strange to watch.
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Kikki Di'je
Lay Low
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Grez Edited by: Grez on 21/05/2009 13:32:48 Why are you talking about guns?
Don't be a ****ing moron, and don't get the beating you deserve. Problem solved.
Reading is fundamental.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.05.21 14:45:00 -
[12]
Good to see them go.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Mr Reeth
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Posted - 2009.05.21 15:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
I've always noticed that people in other countries (I'm in the UK) seem to be genuinely afraid of their Police and will go out of their way to act timid if they are pulled over or stopped in the street and asked a question.
I noticed this especially last summer when in Berlin. We were waiting for a train at Ostkreuz and there were several Bundespolizei on the upper platform. As soon as anyone came up the stairs they would subconsciously move alone the platform away from the officers, whilst me and my friend were the only ones standing up where the officers were.
It was pretty strange to watch.
I'd really like to know what the UK is doing differently if people are not afraid of the cops. One way police in America have of telling someone is hiding something is if they are NOT afraid.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Vort3x.
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Posted - 2009.05.21 15:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Abrazzar Do not agitate the cops.
Pretty much this. Cops get pretty wired, as anyone would. Just don't show yourself to be vaguely a threat and you should be treated well.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.21 16:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tal Nok In relation (warning - graphic content but it's on CNN) to this video, from time to time in the States, we hear a lot of these stories.
If you were faced with the situation (but not knocked out as the guy in the video and you were 100% innocent of anything), but had a way to defend yourself, would you? How far would you go to make sure your life is no longer in danger by crooked FUBAR cops?
I have a concealment license and as such, keep a loaded pistol in my car with two extra clips all the time. I also have a stun gun which stays in the car as well (been used often unfortunately due to drunkards).
By United States Law, accross all 50 states and it's territories, you are able to use a weapon if your life is in immediate danger. However, if your life is in danger because of crooked cops, and you end up shooting them, you will 99% get shot if not fatally wounded yourself, for taking out a cop by another cop reguardless of the situation once "officer down" has been called.
So take the beating, possibly lose your life and sue later? Attempt to subdue the officer with greater firepower / stun his face off? What's your take?
What the hell are you on? What you posted here and what was in that video are two entirely different things.
The man was suspected of drug trafficking. he led the officers on a 100mph chase endangering himself, other civilians, and the officers. He even tried to, or possibly had, struck an officer who had thrown spike strips. And you are talking about innocence!?
I do not condone the officers actions in the last few seconds of the video and for that the man will most likely get off scott free and even make some money while he's at it. Up until then though they were doing their job.
But damn dude, don't go off trying to make this guy out to be a saint. Innocent people pull over. Innocent people listen to the officer and converse normally. Innocent people do not go tearing up the highway at 100mph and try running over another human being!
If you come across a crooked cop remember that you have 3 things, The right to be silent, USE IT. The right to an attorney, BE SILENT UNTIL YOU TALK TO HIM. And the Dash cam, make sure that is the first thing the attorney get his hands on. It is not just there for the officers because as you can plainly see, it worked against them in this case. If you fight back they will fight harder and you will only make it worse for yourself. You have to step up to their level and fight them using their own tools, namely the law. Possibly the dumbest, most stupid thing you can possibly do, is play vigilante. How do you think that will play out in the news?
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goodby4u
Valor Inc. Psychotic Tendencies.
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Posted - 2009.05.21 16:09:00 -
[16]
I would let them beat me senseless, because normally they wont kill me(otherwise its definately a **** storm for them) and assaulting a cop would mean I have no legal recourse against them AND no defense from going to jail.
On the + side after they do beat me senseless my wounds will probably heal, but my "pain and suffering" would last forever.
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Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.21 16:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kikki Di'je
Originally by: Grez Edited by: Grez on 21/05/2009 13:32:48 Why are you talking about guns?
Don't be a ****ing moron, and don't get the beating you deserve. Problem solved.
Reading is fundamental.
I read what he wrote - what does police brutality have to do with owning a gun? Nothing.
Again, don't be a douche, and problem solved (or avoided). --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Tallaran Kouros
Caldari Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
I've always noticed that people in other countries (I'm in the UK) seem to be genuinely afraid of their Police and will go out of their way to act timid if they are pulled over or stopped in the street and asked a question.
I noticed this especially last summer when in Berlin. We were waiting for a train at Ostkreuz and there were several Bundespolizei on the upper platform. As soon as anyone came up the stairs they would subconsciously move alone the platform away from the officers, whilst me and my friend were the only ones standing up where the officers were.
It was pretty strange to watch.
I'd really like to know what the UK is doing differently if people are not afraid of the cops. One way police in America have of telling someone is hiding something is if they are NOT afraid.
They don't routinely carry firearms for one, and by and large neither do the criminals.
It happens, but it's not all that common.
Over here we mostly fear the powers that the police are given thanks to the bad laws that the government creates, but we don't fear the *police* per se.
I know that 99% of police officers here are honest, trustworthy and completely respectful if I ever have cause to interact with them.
I've never felt afraid of a police officer or felt that I couldn't go to them if I was in trouble or had a problem, and that goes for armed officers too.
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Grez Edited by: Grez on 21/05/2009 13:32:48 Why are you talking about guns?
Don't be a ****ing moron, and don't get the beating you deserve. Problem solved.
This only works for white people. I'm glad the officers were fired because there was absolutely no reason to attack him after the wreck and he was no longer a threat.
To the OP if I ever got into some trouble and you swooped in with your handgun and your costco shirt tucked into your jeans I would knock you the **** out. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
I've never felt afraid of a police officer or felt that I couldn't go to them if I was in trouble or had a problem, and that goes for armed officers too.
No kidding. There's a group that has a coffee break at the gas station frequently and I go hang out with them all the time. Its really hard to believe but I found out they are average joes like you and me!
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Tal Nok
Amarr DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
What the hell are you on? What you posted here and what was in that video are two entirely different things.
The man was suspected of drug trafficking. he led the officers on a 100mph chase endangering himself, other civilians, and the officers. He even tried to, or possibly had, struck an officer who had thrown spike strips. And you are talking about innocence!?
I do not condone the officers actions in the last few seconds of the video and for that the man will most likely get off scott free and even make some money while he's at it. Up until then though they were doing their job.
But damn dude, don't go off trying to make this guy out to be a saint. Innocent people pull over. Innocent people listen to the officer and converse normally. Innocent people do not go tearing up the highway at 100mph and try running over another human being!
If you come across a crooked cop remember that you have 3 things, The right to be silent, USE IT. The right to an attorney, BE SILENT UNTIL YOU TALK TO HIM. And the Dash cam, make sure that is the first thing the attorney get his hands on. It is not just there for the officers because as you can plainly see, it worked against them in this case. If you fight back they will fight harder and you will only make it worse for yourself. You have to step up to their level and fight them using their own tools, namely the law. Possibly the dumbest, most stupid thing you can possibly do, is play vigilante. How do you think that will play out in the news?
This was a hypothetical question that a lot of people apparently missed. No where was I making him to be a saint. Maybe I wasn't clear, but I'll post it again.
Originally by: Tal Nok If you were faced with the situation (but not knocked out as the guy in the video and you were 100% innocent of anything), but had a way to defend yourself, would you? How far would you go to make sure your life is no longer in danger by crooked FUBAR cops?
So take the beating, possibly lose your life and sue later? Attempt to subdue the officer with greater firepower / stun his face off? What's your take?
Perhaps it would have been better to have said, if you were pulled over at Random, and felt that your life was in danger, what would you do? I mean, if one cop had a gun drawn on you, while beating the crap out of you, what would you do?
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY.
Need sacrifice.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:56:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 21/05/2009 17:56:55
Originally by: Tal Nok
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
What the hell are you on? What you posted here and what was in that video are two entirely different things.
The man was suspected of drug trafficking. he led the officers on a 100mph chase endangering himself, other civilians, and the officers. He even tried to, or possibly had, struck an officer who had thrown spike strips. And you are talking about innocence!?
I do not condone the officers actions in the last few seconds of the video and for that the man will most likely get off scott free and even make some money while he's at it. Up until then though they were doing their job.
But damn dude, don't go off trying to make this guy out to be a saint. Innocent people pull over. Innocent people listen to the officer and converse normally. Innocent people do not go tearing up the highway at 100mph and try running over another human being!
If you come across a crooked cop remember that you have 3 things, The right to be silent, USE IT. The right to an attorney, BE SILENT UNTIL YOU TALK TO HIM. And the Dash cam, make sure that is the first thing the attorney get his hands on. It is not just there for the officers because as you can plainly see, it worked against them in this case. If you fight back they will fight harder and you will only make it worse for yourself. You have to step up to their level and fight them using their own tools, namely the law. Possibly the dumbest, most stupid thing you can possibly do, is play vigilante. How do you think that will play out in the news?
This was a hypothetical question that a lot of people apparently missed. No where was I making him to be a saint. Maybe I wasn't clear, but I'll post it again.
Originally by: Tal Nok If you were faced with the situation (but not knocked out as the guy in the video and you were 100% innocent of anything), but had a way to defend yourself, would you? How far would you go to make sure your life is no longer in danger by crooked FUBAR cops?
So take the beating, possibly lose your life and sue later? Attempt to subdue the officer with greater firepower / stun his face off? What's your take?
Perhaps it would have been better to have said, if you were pulled over at Random, and felt that your life was in danger, what would you do? I mean, if one cop had a gun drawn on you, while beating the crap out of you, what would you do?
Which as I said is completely the opposite of the video that you showed.
And my answer is already in that post. Would you like to be the man set up for life because of police brutality and have the people watch your back or would you like to be known as the cop killer who took away a dedicated officer and husband/father?
My way of defending myself is using the evidence of that dashcam on him. My way of defending myself is showing the bruises and lacerations on my person. Yeah sure I took a beating, it'll hurt for a few months. He loses his job, and most likely see jail time, and those marks stay with him for life.
As I said pulling a gun on an officer is the dumbest, most stupid thing you could ever do.
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WhiteSavage
Gallente Altruism.
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:59:00 -
[23]
Move to Russia. I hear the cops there are great guys.
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Tal Nok
Amarr DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2009.05.21 17:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: FOl2TY8
To the OP if I ever got into some trouble and you swooped in with your handgun and your costco shirt tucked into your jeans I would knock you the **** out.
For argument's sake:
When I'm out of uniform, I don't wear commercial wear, nor jeans. I'm not apart of any sourthern or back neck states I'm sorry to inform you.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY.
Need sacrifice.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.05.21 18:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich As I said pulling a gun on an officer is the dumbest, most stupid thing you could ever do.
And most likely the last. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.21 18:12:00 -
[26]
Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 21/05/2009 18:16:16
Originally by: Tal Nok
Originally by: FOl2TY8
To the OP if I ever got into some trouble and you swooped in with your handgun and your costco shirt tucked into your jeans I would knock you the **** out.
For argument's sake:
When I'm out of uniform, I don't wear commercial wear, nor jeans. I'm not apart of any sourthern or back neck states I'm sorry to inform you.
You wear them on the inside.
And to answer your original question, I'm white, I don't break the law and when I go to countries outside the US I mind my P's and Q's so this would never happen to me. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Tal Nok
Amarr DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2009.05.21 18:17:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Which as I said is completely the opposite of the video that you showed.
And my answer is already in that post. Would you like to be the man set up for life because of police brutality and have the people watch your back or would you like to be known as the cop killer who took away a dedicated officer and husband/father?
My way of defending myself is using the evidence of that dashcam on him. My way of defending myself is showing the bruises and lacerations on my person. Yeah sure I took a beating, it'll hurt for a few months. He loses his job, and most likely see jail time, and those marks stay with him for life.
As I said pulling a gun on an officer is the dumbest, most stupid thing you could ever do.
See, I agree, it's not a smart thing to do but something that we are quite capable of doing and to an extent, part of our job when we see wrong doing by an officer. In reality, we have to announce who we are, and provide credentials.
But what of the average joe? I understand the whole thing with taking the hits and nailing the offending cop afterwards, but I mean is that it? Nothing can be done at the time? Why would you have to go through the pain if it could be stopped right then and there?
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY.
Need sacrifice.
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EliteSlave
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.21 18:22:00 -
[28]
you really have no choice but to take the beating and to have your day in court,
if you discharge your firearm at a police officer even if your in the right, you will lose in the end.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.21 18:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tal Nok
See, I agree, it's not a smart thing to do but something that we are quite capable of doing and to an extent, part of our job when we see wrong doing by an officer. In reality, we have to announce who we are, and provide credentials.
But what of the average joe? I understand the whole thing with taking the hits and nailing the offending cop afterwards, but I mean is that it? Nothing can be done at the time? Why would you have to go through the pain if it could be stopped right then and there?
Could you please tell me where you live?
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Tal Nok
Amarr DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2009.05.21 18:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Could you please tell me where you live?
If it provides some sort of bearing on the argument, I live in a major metropolitan area on the East coast.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Forum gods ANGRY.
Need sacrifice.
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