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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:20:00 -
[1]
I think it can. I have an idea for a trans-capital fleet combat ship.
The new class would be T1 and use capital ship components(marginally fewer than current carriers and dreadnoughts need) to make them cheap enough to use in PvP while incorporating marauder technology to eliminate the need for ungainly capital weapons or siege modules.
Each race's ship would have 6-7 guns/launchers with the 100% role bonus to weapon damage. Each would also have a role bonus reducing the grid/cpu need for capital reps and have a generous capacitor to run them. They would be restricted losec and 0.0 and have their own jump drives like all non-freighter capitals. They would have a T1 bonus to tank and weapon range only.
What to call them? People might vomit at this idea but they should just be called battleships. The current battleships we have now would be renamed as battlecruisers and our current battlecruisers would become heavy cruisers. I think this makes sense as real life battlecruisers were traditionally lighter, less armoured and more mobile than battleships while retaining firepower nearly as great as their bigger cousins.
On a practical level, pilots in 0.0 would have a capital ship to work towards that isn't just used for logistics, fleet support or pos sieges. Right now there are no capitals specifically designed for ship-to-ship combat. Sure they'd be "more of the same" in 0.0 blobs but I see this as a possible way to enhance warfare for smaller alliances who can't afford enormous dread fleets or don't want to risk more expensive capitals that aren't suited for direct combat. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:30:00 -
[2]
why?
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe why?
Why not? -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Sidephex
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:37:00 -
[4]
replying to confirm that members of H E L I C O N alliance make the worst posts
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Jihn Anolar
Minmatar Southern Crossfire Cartel Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: ArmyOfMe why?
Why not?
No, not why not. The ship needs to fill a purpose. Otherwise it's just more of the same crap for no real reason. Supporting small Alliances isn't a reason. There are MANY other things that CCP should do to help small Alliances, but this isn't going to make a big enough difference.
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mama guru
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: mama guru on 23/05/2009 16:39:57 I really wanna see that gap filled aswell. But the problem with making 6-7 Guns/launchers of BS size with the marauder treatment would be its insanely overpowerd DPS.
One thing I'd like to see from the black ops atleast is a near complete drop in offensive ability and grant them powerful bonuses to various scanning types and the ability to use covert ops Cloaks. Probing while cloaked etc or being able to scan a ships cargo/setup from several AU's away, giving it a 100AU directional scanner and the ability to intercept FTL communications of various types to be able to gather intel on enemy gangs, you can see how many gangmembers the pilot youre "targeting" has within a certain amount of lightyears etc. This would also reduce the power of metagaming which I think would help this game with solving some issues that has been ignored for a very long time. EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak. |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:40:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sidephex replying to confirm that members of H E L I C O N alliance make the worst posts
You must have a lot of time on your hands to read all the posts on the forums so you can judge which are the worst. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:42:00 -
[8]
Op's idea of the new battleships power presented in an easy to understand gif animation.
Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
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Lork Niffle
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zeba
That is an awesome movie. ------------------------------------- Read my bio ingame for tips on how to live and not be called nasty names by me. |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jihn Anolar
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: ArmyOfMe why?
Why not?
No, not why not. The ship needs to fill a purpose. Otherwise it's just more of the same crap for no real reason. Supporting small Alliances isn't a reason. There are MANY other things that CCP should do to help small Alliances, but this isn't going to make a big enough difference.
A combat capital ship doesn't need to have a role that is beneficial to large alliances only. It can be bheneficial to individual players who want to get into capitals but don't want to get stuck using them for logisitics or not using them at all because there are no pos sieges going on.
But if you must demand an overall purpose, they could be used as a way to break a pos siege with superior numbers of cheaper capital ships against the slow and ungainly dreads. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
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Jihn Anolar
Minmatar Southern Crossfire Cartel Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
A combat capital ship doesn't need to have a role that is beneficial to large alliances only. It can be beneficial to individual players who want to get into capitals but don't want to get stuck using them for logisitics or not using them at all because there are no pos sieges going on.
The point of a capital ship is that it IS something you don't use as an individual player. It IS something that needs support, otherwise you run into that problem of being OVERPWERED.
Originally by: Arthur Frayn But if you must demand an overall purpose, they could be used as a way to break a pos siege with superior numbers of cheaper capital ships against the slow and ungainly dreads.
OH! You mean exactly like a Battleship could be used?!
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Richard Koslinsky
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Posted - 2009.05.23 16:58:00 -
[12]
The gap is filled...T3...
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:02:00 -
[13]
You would call them Black Ops, as the ship you just described would make current BOs obsolete.
The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jihn Anolar The point of a capital ship is that it IS something you don't use as an individual player. It IS something that needs support, otherwise you run into that problem of being OVERPWERED.
So do BS fleets in nullsec. You always need support outside of empire no matter what ship you're flying. I'm not suggesting a ship that can solo anything. I came up with this idea as a fleet ship that does a better job than battleships. Don't be so daft.
Originally by: Jihn Anolar OH! You mean exactly like a Battleship could be used?!
Exactly, but with MOAR battleship per square inch! -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rajere You would call them Black Ops, as the ship you just described would make current BOs obsolete.
Black Ops make themselves obsolete.
I think the OP has an interesting idea, but obviously it needs some [read: lots of] tweaking.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Ze4K DK
Gallente Nova-Tek Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn I'm not suggesting a ship that can solo anything.
Ok let me see if i get this straight... You want a ship with 6-7 100% bonused BS sized weapons, cap reps and a jump drive... Ok so it needs a cyno to use the jump drive but what else prevents this ship from being SOLOOMGWTFBBQPWNAGE?
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 23/05/2009 17:21:30 the idea of t2 tier 3 battleships is better than this one + i want a black torp abaddon
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=659654
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ze4K DK
Originally by: Arthur Frayn I'm not suggesting a ship that can solo anything.
Ok let me see if i get this straight... You want a ship with 6-7 100% bonused BS sized weapons, cap reps and a jump drive... Ok so it needs a cyno to use the jump drive but what else prevents this ship from being SOLOOMGWTFBBQPWNAGE?
The fact that no ship currently in the game, no matter how awesome it is, be it a Titan or Dread or Mothership, is a solopwnmobile.
Solo ships are always nuked by blobs. It's a fact. This ship idea would be subject to that fact. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Ze4K DK
Originally by: Arthur Frayn I'm not suggesting a ship that can solo anything.
Ok let me see if i get this straight... You want a ship with 6-7 100% bonused BS sized weapons, cap reps and a jump drive... Ok so it needs a cyno to use the jump drive but what else prevents this ship from being SOLOOMGWTFBBQPWNAGE?
The fact that no ship currently in the game, no matter how awesome it is, be it a Titan or Dread or Mothership, is a solopwnmobile.
Solo ships are always nuked by blobs. It's a fact. This ship idea would be subject to that fact.
either way this is the wrong forum for this trully moot point
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moreleftergal
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:50:00 -
[20]
as everyone else has indicated, the question is more "should it be filled?" you don't need a halfway ship between each ship class.
how about a ship with twice the firepower and tank of a BS, twice the agility and speed of a capital, costing 2/3 the price of a carrier, that fills an entire carrier maint bay, can't use an MWD effectively, has to fit precision to fight BSes....
i don't care how you stack it, it's just a bad idea. you'd end up with something that's not enough of anything to fill a useful role. not enough tank or dps to be as useful as a dread or carrier, not enough agility or speed to evade a BS with a point, can be neuted and popped by a single competent BS pilot, not enough precision to hit BC or lower....
this is terrible, this idea.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 18:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: arbiter reborn Edited by: arbiter reborn on 23/05/2009 17:21:30 the idea of t2 tier 3 battleships is better than this one + i want a black torp abaddon
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=659654
A T2 tier 3 battleship will be as expensive as a marauder and be uninsurable and therefore not be used in pvp. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 18:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: moreleftergal
i don't care how you stack it, it's just a bad idea. you'd end up with something that's not enough of anything to fill a useful role. not enough tank or dps to be as useful as a dread or carrier, not enough agility or speed to evade a BS with a point, can be neuted and popped by a single competent BS pilot, not enough precision to hit BC or lower....
this is terrible, this idea.
It would be a terrible idea to use solo. Why not fleets of them?
Large Battleship fleets suffer from a few problems. Two of which are lag and availability of pilots. A fleet of ships that I'm talking about would be more affective with fewer numbers than a battleship fleet that puts out equal dps. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Constantine Arcanum
IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2009.05.23 18:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: moreleftergal
i don't care how you stack it, it's just a bad idea. you'd end up with something that's not enough of anything to fill a useful role. not enough tank or dps to be as useful as a dread or carrier, not enough agility or speed to evade a BS with a point, can be neuted and popped by a single competent BS pilot, not enough precision to hit BC or lower....
this is terrible, this idea.
It would be a terrible idea to use solo. Why not fleets of them?
Large Battleship fleets suffer from a few problems. Two of which are lag and availability of pilots. A fleet of ships that I'm talking about would be more affective with fewer numbers than a battleship fleet that puts out equal dps.
then everyone would just fly the new bs's in fleet with the same numbers... it would just make the current bs's obsolete.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.23 18:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Constantine Arcanum
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: moreleftergal
i don't care how you stack it, it's just a bad idea. you'd end up with something that's not enough of anything to fill a useful role. not enough tank or dps to be as useful as a dread or carrier, not enough agility or speed to evade a BS with a point, can be neuted and popped by a single competent BS pilot, not enough precision to hit BC or lower....
this is terrible, this idea.
It would be a terrible idea to use solo. Why not fleets of them?
Large Battleship fleets suffer from a few problems. Two of which are lag and availability of pilots. A fleet of ships that I'm talking about would be more affective with fewer numbers than a battleship fleet that puts out equal dps.
then everyone would just fly the new bs's in fleet with the same numbers... it would just make the current bs's obsolete.
Not for players who don't have the skills to fly them or the alliances that can't afford them as they'd be much more expensive than battleships, take capital ship components to build and need to use a cyno. Battleships would still be useful as they're cheap and mobile compared to the ships I'm talking about. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Lt Angus
Caldari End Game. Dead End.
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Posted - 2009.05.23 18:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Jihn Anolar The point of a capital ship is that it IS something you don't use as an individual player. It IS something that needs support, otherwise you run into that problem of being OVERPWERED.
So do BS fleets in nullsec. You always need support outside of empire no matter what ship you're flying. I'm not suggesting a ship that can solo anything. I came up with this idea as a fleet ship that does a better job than battleships. Don't be so daft.
Originally by: Jihn Anolar OH! You mean exactly like a Battleship could be used?!
Exactly, but with MOAR battleship per square inch!
lol please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.23 20:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn A T2 tier 3 battleship will be as expensive as a marauder and be uninsurable and therefore not be used in pvp.
strange that i see lots of ships costing more then a marauder in pvp every day, i also see marauders used every day in pvp.
fact is that we dont need any ships between battleships and caps, the step is ment to be a big one and thats how it should remain.
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Rilwar
BlackStar Industrial
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Posted - 2009.05.23 20:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Zeba Op's idea of the new battleships power presented in an easy to understand gif animation.
Quoted again... just because it needed to be.
Mitnal was here. |
Nova Satar
Annihilate.
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Posted - 2009.05.23 20:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Richard Koslinsky The gap is filled...T3...
The gap between Battleships and Capitals is a incredibly expensive yet ****ty cruiser?
Get out.
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.05.23 20:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn Each race's ship would have 6-7 guns/launchers with the 100% role bonus to weapon damage. Each would also have a role bonus reducing the grid/cpu need for capital reps and have a generous capacitor to run them. They would be restricted losec and 0.0 and have their own jump drives like all non-freighter capitals. They would have a T1 bonus to tank and weapon range only.
I wouldn't mind seeing a combat ship the size and cost of an Orca, but what you suggest is blatantly overpowered. The fleet bringing 100 of those ships would be nearly invulnerable. With T1 insurance taken into account, it wouldn't cost more to lose one than to lose a battleship. And then what's the point of battleships in the first place?
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Bigpimping
Pimp Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.23 21:02:00 -
[30]
Yes it can, with cream. ________________________________________ He who pimps, is God... |
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