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SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.25 00:03:00 -
[1]
Just running through some fittings for the 2 of these, I wanted a solo boat and I like the way these 2 stack up. Here is what I came up with, Please critique / advise to help me improve the setup for either.
[Omen Navy Issue, Nano] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Small 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Hobgoblin II x5 / Warrior II's, I was leaning towards the Warrior's.
My Perceived Advantages over the Zealot, Drone bay + Utility high for a Neut to help get rid of tackling inties. speed is a little under 1.9kms EHP is 21.5k with a huge hole in the EM res, which I was thinking about using rigs to plug. At Point blank it does roughly 650 DPS and it does between 519-550 (depending on rather you use hobs or Warrior II's) with scorch at 23+5km range,
[Zealot, New Setup 1] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
EHP of 19.6k, Does 573 DPS with Faction Multi's and 456 with Scorch out to 34.5, doesn't seem to have any way to deal with tackling inties, goes a little above 2kms.
Now im VERY Unfamiliar with using a Nano Cruiser to begin with. Would these speeds even be fast enough for this to be viable? Also both have a Align time of 4.4 im not sure if that is quick enough for solo work.
If this is just a bad idea please let me know why.
I left the Rigs empty although I will probably end up rigging the one I decide to actually fly.
--- Its like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one." |
Constantine Arcanum
IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2009.05.25 00:08:00 -
[2]
imo 2km/s just isn't fast enough to be safe... i'd rather fit some eanm's and a tracking comp instead of the LSE.
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SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.25 13:07:00 -
[3]
So 2kms is too slow for survivability, shame its the only thing the Omen Navy Does better then the Zealot, as far as tanking it goes, you might as well be using a Harbinger for that. |
Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.05.25 13:17:00 -
[4]
Shiled resistance rigs for the zealot imo, they are cheap compared tothe ship. |
SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.25 13:43:00 -
[5]
Looking at them both I actually decided to modify the setups and fit some armor resistances rather then the shield extender, ended up with almost as much EHP 21k and a smaller sig radius. Also I was able to size down the LAZORS on the Omen Navy Issue and fit a cap booster + Medium Neut.
[Omen Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400 Warp Disruptor II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Warrior II x5
Does only 505 DPS though.
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Meridius Dex
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.05.25 14:49:00 -
[6]
Honestly, the Zealot is not all that hot for solo work; much of what it can do can be done better (and cheaper) by the Harbinger. You buy a Zealot, you use it for sniper HAC gangs, fitting beams, SBs, HS and TEs.
For what you are trying to do, the Omen Navy can be speed fit better, as it sports a flight of light drones and a neut thusly:
[Omen Navy Issue, NanoNomen] Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Energy Discharge Elutriation I Energy Discharge Elutriation I Dynamic Fuel Valve I
Warrior II x5
450+ dps out to a 20K optimal, over 2000 m/s, and without the neut running she's cap stable for about 2 minutes, long enough to win any duel. Any inties closing into scram range get the neut and the drones and the lossmail.
I personally prefer the NOmen as an AB/web/scram brawler:
[Omen Navy Issue, Facepuncher] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
10MN Afterburner II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Small Nosferatu II
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Hobgoblin II x5 |
Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.25 17:10:00 -
[7]
Zealot: range and beams. Omen NI: Tank and pulses.
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SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.25 18:56:00 -
[8]
If your going with tank + pulses doesn't the harbinger completely eclipse the Omen NI? |
Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.26 05:04:00 -
[9]
You wanted opinions on fits for Zeals and Omnis.
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SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.26 05:16:00 -
[10]
I do want opinions / fits for them, but I would prefer fits that are not completely eclipsed by another cheaper ship, I think the only niche the navy omen can fit in is a modified solo boat style replacement for the zealot. But it might not be quite fast enough for even that. --- Its like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one." |
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Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:17:00 -
[11]
A Navy Omen is a cool ship, the reason you should fly it is just because of that. Harbinger will naturally give you more bang for your buck.
But thats the case with most faction ships.
Faction ships = Epeen (saying this again: most of the time)
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:19:00 -
[12]
Don't fly HACs/faction cruisers with a gank and tank mentality - leave that for battlecruisers which have more slots and grid.
Take advantage of your bonuses and use them to the extreme. Being a nano-cruiser now doesn't mean you negate all incoming damage, it means you dictate your engagement range (ALWAYS out of scram/web range). You fire moderate damage, and you burn away (and warp) if the enemy is countering you and you're not going to win. A battlecruiser is usually to slow to get away, and so it relies on its tank to survive. Sometimes that's a less surviveable option than a nano cruiser.
Or you can go with a sniper build and reach superior ranges than what a battlecruiser can provide.
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
ry ry
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:57:00 -
[13]
Edited by: ry ry on 26/05/2009 18:05:59
Originally by: Aesheera A Navy Omen is a cool ship, the reason you should fly it is just because of that. Harbinger will naturally give you more bang for your buck.
But thats the case with most faction ships.
Faction ships = Epeen (saying this again: most of the time)
nonsense, faction cruisers are cheap HACs. granted faction frigs are epeen extensions, but faction BS are solo monsters (providing you can find a 1v1, which is easier said than done).
then again, battlecruisers are great at what they do - i've ben a big fan of the FOTM shield-gank nanocane for ages, and have steamrollered small recon gangs that fancied their chances, throw some scimitars in with shield buffer BCs and you've got a very strong gang.
don't over estimate their effectiveness though - a shield+logi gang of ours recently got face****d by a RR bs gang that deployed a bucket load of t2 sentries on us.
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Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:03:00 -
[14]
You miss my point on so many levels, im not even going to sit here and type a tl;dr explanation for you.
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SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Omarvelous Don't fly HACs/faction cruisers with a gank and tank mentality - leave that for battlecruisers which have more slots and grid.
Take advantage of your bonuses and use them to the extreme. Being a nano-cruiser now doesn't mean you negate all incoming damage, it means you dictate your engagement range (ALWAYS out of scram/web range). You fire moderate damage, and you burn away (and warp) if the enemy is countering you and you're not going to win. A battlecruiser is usually to slow to get away, and so it relies on its tank to survive. Sometimes that's a less surviveable option than a nano cruiser.
Or you can go with a sniper build and reach superior ranges than what a battlecruiser can provide.
Im familier with the sniper Zealot its a beast of a ship, I like the idea of the Omen Navy issue, I wasn't questioning if 2kms was enough speed to negate damage so much as to always dictate range and what kind of align time should I shoot for to keep this semi safe for solo roaming. Btw, this is in FW in lowsec so I don't have to worry about bubbles.
The setup I currently have aligns 4.3 in , does 580 DPS, in a knife fight, 470 out to 23+, has over 23k EHP, fits a medium neut, and goes 1985ms,
If I switch over from ODII's to NanoII's it aligns in 3.1 and has a max speed of 1883, it also drops 3k off the ehp. --- Its like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one." |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.05.26 20:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: SuiJuris
Originally by: Omarvelous Don't fly HACs/faction cruisers with a gank and tank mentality - leave that for battlecruisers which have more slots and grid.
Take advantage of your bonuses and use them to the extreme. Being a nano-cruiser now doesn't mean you negate all incoming damage, it means you dictate your engagement range (ALWAYS out of scram/web range). You fire moderate damage, and you burn away (and warp) if the enemy is countering you and you're not going to win. A battlecruiser is usually to slow to get away, and so it relies on its tank to survive. Sometimes that's a less surviveable option than a nano cruiser.
Or you can go with a sniper build and reach superior ranges than what a battlecruiser can provide.
Im familier with the sniper Zealot its a beast of a ship, I like the idea of the Omen Navy issue, I wasn't questioning if 2kms was enough speed to negate damage so much as to always dictate range and what kind of align time should I shoot for to keep this semi safe for solo roaming. Btw, this is in FW in lowsec so I don't have to worry about bubbles.
The setup I currently have aligns 4.3 in , does 580 DPS, in a knife fight, 470 out to 23+, has over 23k EHP, fits a medium neut, and goes 1985ms,
If I switch over from ODII's to NanoII's it aligns in 3.1 and has a max speed of 1883, it also drops 3k off the ehp.
I'd pick the nanos then - if your HAC/Faction cruiser is in structure its about to pop anyways. ~3 second align is 'good enough' for many low sec situations.
Keep in mind your omen navy issue can also use ecm drones...
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
ry ry
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Posted - 2009.05.26 21:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aesheera You miss my point on so many levels, im not even going to sit here and type a tl;dr explanation for you.
are you sure about that?
Originally by: Aesheera A Navy Omen is a cool ship, the reason you should fly it is just because of that. Harbinger will naturally give you more bang for your buck.
But thats the case with most faction ships.
Faction ships = Epeen (saying this again: most of the time)
tl;dr: faction ships are epeen extensions because you get a better better DPS and more HP from a cheaper BC.
hacs and battlecruisers are different ships. they have different strengths and weaknesses. saying 'don't fly a fleet stabber because canes are cheaper' is missing the point of faction ships so spectacularly and on so many levels i don't think all the tl;dr explanations in the world will help you.
xx
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Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ry ry
tl;dr: "hacs and faction cruisers are flashy toys because you get a better better DPS and more HP from a cheaper fully-insurable BC."
This is why i simply wont make a large post about it ;) Fail again.
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ry ry
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Posted - 2009.05.27 08:58:00 -
[19]
"you're wrong, but i won't tell you why because.. uuh.. i can't be bothered and stuff."
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Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 26/05/2009 22:21:00
Originally by: Aesheera You miss my point on so many levels, im not even going to sit here and type a tl;dr explanation for you.
you sure about that?
This reply from you proves that completely:
Originally by: ry ry
tl;dr: "hacs and faction cruisers are flashy toys because you get a better better DPS and more HP from a cheaper fully-insurable BC."
If you think thats what I said, enjoy piramid posting from this point on
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Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:53:00 -
[21]
Here, Ill post and edit while you frantically spam some more in your next reply. Or you can sit this one out and ill give you a few pointers.
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SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.27 13:20:00 -
[22]
I can get more hp then the average tanked cruiser while using a "nano fit" on a Navy Omen.
I think its ******ed to use the ship in a manner where it is completely outclassed by another ship REGARDLESS of rather or not you can afford to lose 20 of them.
Sure it fits a mean tank for a cruiser but then its just a kinda fast extra squishy BC with less DPS. Which is no good for solo work. The Faction frigates are definately only for your Epeen but the Faction cruisers are actually VERY comparable to the HAC's and are about the same price.
--- Its like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one." |
murrue
PARABELUM-Project
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Posted - 2009.05.27 15:23:00 -
[23]
Navy ships have hudge HP buff, so maximise this. Don't try to nano**** a omen navy, it's useless. Put 1600, trimark and eanm for tank, FMP and Hs for gank, and crush any cruiser size enough dumb to fight you. Omen navy is a great solo ship, and has tools to deal with small size ships, you just need to use it in the right way.
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Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.27 15:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: SuiJuris I can get more hp then the average tanked cruiser while using a "nano fit" on a Navy Omen.
I think its ******ed to use the ship in a manner where it is completely outclassed by another ship REGARDLESS of rather or not you can afford to lose 20 of them.
Sure it fits a mean tank for a cruiser but then its just a kinda fast extra squishy BC with less DPS. Which is no good for solo work. The Faction frigates are definately only for your Epeen but the Faction cruisers are actually VERY comparable to the HAC's and are about the same price.
FYI, neither Nano Omni nor any Zealot are 'good' for solo work. Omni: Tank or die Zealot: make em shine in gangs or fleets. If you want a Amarr vessel thats good for solo work, I strongly recommend you pick a whole different ship.
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SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.27 16:18:00 -
[25]
Nano zealot seems terrible for solo, the Nano Omen however does not, aligns faster then most un nano'd frigates and all plated frigates. Has as much EHP as a Plated cruiser and 80% as much DPS as a BC.
Plating it however you come out with half the HP and 80 of the DPS of a BC with a align time that is still too slow to get out of gatecamps.
And you really want to continue to claim that plating it is better? Maybe for a 1v1 but good luck finding a 1v1 in a 130 Million dollar battlecruiser that isn't getting past the first gatecamp it comes into. --- Its like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one." |
SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.27 16:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: murrue Navy ships have hudge HP buff, so maximise this. Don't try to nano**** a omen navy, it's useless. Put 1600, trimark and eanm for tank, FMP and Hs for gank, and crush any cruiser size enough dumb to fight you. Omen navy is a great solo ship, and has tools to deal with small size ships, you just need to use it in the right way.
The HP buff is exactly why its good for "nano-ing" You can get as much EHP as a plated cruiser just using resistance plating and retain your speed / align time. --- Its like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one." |
Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.27 17:34:00 -
[27]
Where ever did i say plating is the way to go? Quote that for me please.
And by the sounds of your replies youre not looking for fits, but for conformations you found 'the' setup.
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SuiJuris
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Posted - 2009.05.27 18:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Aesheera Edited by: Aesheera on 27/05/2009 17:41:41 Where ever did i say plating is the way to go? Quote that for me please.
Um you said that in 1 of your first posts in the thread.
Originally by: Aesheera Zealot: range and beams. Omen NI: Tank and pulses.
I understand at 2kms its not invincible or even close to it, but it can out run most cruisers and straight up out tank / gank them.
With a Medium Neut and a cap booster in can run everything for five minutes INCLUDING the med neut. Also if you look at my second fit you will notice I took the LSE off completely. As far as using a Zealot for its better range, the NI Omen can shoot out to 23+5 with scorch but Im guessing you prefer to have your targets warp off while your shooting them?
You want to disagree and say you don't like it thats fine, you want to try and claim you didn't suggest I plate it read your own posts if your not going to read mine.
--- Its like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one." |
murrue
PARABELUM-Project
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Posted - 2009.05.27 19:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: SuiJuris
Originally by: murrue Navy ships have hudge HP buff, so maximise this. Don't try to nano**** a omen navy, it's useless. Put 1600, trimark and eanm for tank, FMP and Hs for gank, and crush any cruiser size enough dumb to fight you. Omen navy is a great solo ship, and has tools to deal with small size ships, you just need to use it in the right way.
The HP buff is exactly why its good for "nano-ing" You can get as much EHP as a plated cruiser just using resistance plating and retain your speed / align time.
And having the EHP of a T1 cruiser then you are in a faction one isn't good, as faction attract ppl. Use it at your advantage: bait ship for your gang, few ppl expected a cruiser to have such EHP, or let ppl act stupidly because they want faction kill. So funny to see nano-ishtars aggress you at close range and warp out their pod 30s later saying "WTF" in local. For both these situations, you need strong EHP, for surviving until RR, or waiting ppl doing their mistake. By the way, a good gate camp will catch your omen navy if you move without scout, even with nano-fitt.
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Aesheera
Amarr The Voyage of the beagle
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Posted - 2009.05.27 20:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: SuiJuris
Um you said that in 1 of your first posts in the thread.
Originally by: Aesheera Zealot: range and beams. Omen NI: Tank and pulses.
I said TANK it. Thats not PLATING it. I have read all your posts, you clearly havent taken the trouble to read mine. Try harder.
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