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AncientLord
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:31:00 -
[31]
Edited by: AncientLord on 26/05/2009 15:33:32
Originally by: Alxea I see a lot of drone haters who don't use drones here. Atleast some of you know what I'm talking about, I'm glad to see there are not all drone haters here. And btw...
Current skills: 235 (skill points: 31,258,467) I prob have more SP and skill books then half the people who ran their mouth off about how noob I am. Theres nothing wrong with my skills, and I been useing drones since the beginning of when this character was created so don't think you know me or how experianced I am with the use of drones. Because you don't.
The problem has been stated pretty clearly in some posts that have been said and I already pointed out. It sounds like half of the people here that are agenst drones haven't actually ran a REAL sleeper plex. Or even read any of what I said. Maybe afew lines... but oh well. We will see what ccp does about drones when everybody has this prob in regular mission spawns.
I know i called you a noob, but if you will not change your play stlye. You will fail all ower again... until you will notice you need a change.
SP. is irrelevant. How you play, this is all that matters.
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:32:00 -
[32]
Some details on that to clear possible confusion.
Sleepers and drones:
Drones are fine for the Sleeper sites that may be soloted, however you need to watch them closely and actually adopt tactics to keep them alive. I remember some players writting guides on how to actually handle them on such circumstances so it may be worth reading them . Considering sites that may not be soloed, this should still not much of an issue if you are in a fleet with proper coordination and experience.
Sleepers were created to dynamically react and attack targets they consider as threat and that includes drones if you rely on them as your primary source of damage. We wanted to provide PvE content for Apocrypha that actually offered challenge to our player base, so yes, current Sleeper behavior remains definately intended.
Concerning future mission revamp:
It is definately on our to-do list. When and how we decide to achieve this is not clear yet since it remains a huge task with wide repercussions.
One possibility on revamping mission NPCs could be to tune their numbers down and adjust the bounties accordingly to keep the same average bounty output per mission as we have now. In such case each individual mission NPCs would be more challenging to match their reduced numbers; whatever AI and tactics they will use is not defined at the time being, but that could include drone focus as well as it could not; please understand we just cannot give any detail on what is not properly defined yet.
In all cases missions that can be done solo now should still be achievable then, what we would like to avoid remains pilots completing them with little or no implication and effort (read launch drones/fof missiles, activate tank, go out for lunch, come back and loot). |
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Concerning future mission revamp:
It is definitely on our to-do list. When and how we decide to achieve this is not clear yet since it remains a huge task with wide repercussions.
One possibility on revamping mission NPCs could be to tune their numbers down and adjust the bounties accordingly to keep the same average bounty output per mission as we have now. In such case each individual mission NPCs would be more challenging to match their reduced numbers; whatever AI and tactics they will use is not defined at the time being, but that could include drone focus as well as it could not; please understand we just cannot give any detail on what is not properly defined yet.
In all cases missions that can be done solo now should still be achievable then, what we would like to avoid remains pilots completing them with little or no implication and effort (read launch drones/fof missiles, activate tank, go out for lunch, come back and loot).
Good. I Understand things can change alot in a short time but if this is how you would choose to execute it then I have no worries personally. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.05.26 20:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Some details on that to clear possible confusion.
Sleepers and drones:
Drones are fine for the Sleeper sites that may be soloted, however you need to watch them closely and actually adopt tactics to keep them alive. I remember some players writting guides on how to actually handle them on such circumstances so it may be worth reading them . Considering sites that may not be soloed, this should still not much of an issue if you are in a fleet with proper coordination and experience.
Sleepers were created to dynamically react and attack targets they consider as threat and that includes drones if you rely on them as your primary source of damage. We wanted to provide PvE content for Apocrypha that actually offered challenge to our player base, so yes, current Sleeper behavior remains definately intended.
There is a difference between need to manage drones carefully and light drones being alpha'd to death immediately on launch.
EvE is still a game, and drones vs. sleepers in not fun. I'm not saying better AI is a bad thing, but I think its drone handling could use some tweaks before it's applied to other PvE content.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.05.26 20:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Arushia
There is a difference between need to manage drones carefully and light drones being alpha'd to death immediately on launch.
Then don't use light drones. Would you expect to use a ceptor to run level 4 missions?
So this shifts the tactics to sentry drones/heavies. Now the gank/tank on the drone itself has to be considered. Logistics to keep the drones alive becomes an issue.
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Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.05.26 20:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Arushia
There is a difference between need to manage drones carefully and light drones being alpha'd to death immediately on launch.
Then don't use light drones. Would you expect to use a ceptor to run level 4 missions?
So this shifts the tactics to sentry drones/heavies. Now the gank/tank on the drone itself has to be considered. Logistics to keep the drones alive becomes an issue.
I do prefer lights to swat away tackler frigates, but you've got a point.
That said, is it too much to ask for a HP display on drones in bay and the ability to fix them with Nanite Repair Paste?
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
oniplE
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2009.05.26 21:14:00 -
[37]
You have to ask yourself why you would still use a drone boat for missions if such changes were implemented.
1) Micro management (AKA scooping, cuz there's no other form of management with drones) of drones will increase. And its not exactly fun. 2) Effective DPS will drop because of the scooping.
In the end you'll be better off using a raven. x |
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.26 22:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Sleepers were created to dynamically react and attack targets they consider as threat and that includes drones if you rely on them as your primary source of damage. We wanted to provide PvE content for Apocrypha that actually offered challenge to our player base, so yes, current Sleeper behavior remains definately intended.
So you are saying that you don't want the dominix to be able to effectively run W-Space sites? I just spent an hour trying to kill sleepers with my domi using a neut and RR to hold aggro. As others have said, light drones were virtually instapopped and even mediums and heavies quickly died. I find it frustrating that while a drake can happily solo class 1, class 2, and sometimes even class 3 wormholes, a domi struggles with a class 1 or 2 wormhole. It can tank fine, but after only a few minutes it loses most of its damage. In the end I resorted to using sentries to kill the cruisers, but this takes about 5 minutes per cruiser and I have to scoop+rep my drones several times during the battle. In the mean time a missile user has happily killed 5 cruisers. Combine that with the neuting ability of the sleepers, and gallente drone ships are totally nerfed for all sleeper combat.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.26 22:24:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Durzel on 26/05/2009 22:24:55
Originally by: Arushia
There is a difference between need to manage drones carefully and light drones being alpha'd to death immediately on launch.
I'm not one of the "sky is falling, drones are useless!" crowd, but I do agree with the above statement.
A 2 cruiser volley on a medium T2 drone will take it down from full to mid armour in my experience. If you don't recall instantly, and if they're a reasonable distance from you, you can expect one or more of them to arrive back in low hull.
The only "issue" I'd say is that Sleepers seem to have no issues tracking drones at all with the same omgwtfbbq guns they use on us.
Drones should definitely get aggro in wormholes, I'm just not so sure that they should be switched to & bbq'd seconds after you deploy them.
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Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.05.27 00:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: oniplE You have to ask yourself why you would still use a drone boat for missions if such changes were implemented.
1) Micro management (AKA scooping, cuz there's no other form of management with drones) of drones will increase. And its not exactly fun. 2) Effective DPS will drop because of the scooping.
In the end you'll be better off using a raven.
I use drone ships because I do not want to get on the Caldari bandwagon.
If drones are nerfed like this, then Caldari become the undisputed masters of PVE. Variety will be dead.
And I will quit EvE before I train for Caldari's ugly brick-ships.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
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galphi
Gallente Unitary Senate Unitary Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:30:00 -
[41]
Glad to hear the mission revamp is still going to happen. I've stopped running them as there is no longer a challenge (I'm sure you know the problems already). I think reducing the numbers of enemy ships and giving them close to player ship stats is a much better way of doing it. Entering a mission like Pirate Invasion and seeing about 15-20 battleships, and being able to 'perma-tank' their damage ruins any thrill a player might get. Entering a mission and seeing two battleships plus some escorts and thinking "damn, there's TWO of them, I might be in trouble here," should be the aim. When you think about it, how does an organization like the Angel Cartel get such a fearsome reputation with such inferior ships!
As to the drones and the enhanced AI in missions, I believe there is already a slightly enhanced AI in Worlds collide (at least the one with serpentis/guristas in it). Every few minutes they retarget, and if your drones happen to be out, they get targeted. It requires some extra thinking, in that you can't afk the mission, but it's not too irritating either, as they don't do it too often - I wouldn't mind seeing this implemented in all missions, it's certainly a step up from the current AI. Perhaps try these tips out on sisi and see how it goes.
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VoiceInTheDesert
Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.05.27 07:55:00 -
[42]
The thing that a lot of people seem to be missing is that ONLY drone ships have this huge disadvantage. Sure, you can "adapt" tactics, but these facts remain:
Heavy drones can't hit tacklers with any level of consistency and most drone boats lack the powergrid to effectively mount turret based defenses to compensate for this (or are forced to gimp dps by mounting smaller guns for the sole purpose of killing tacklers). So your choices are to either launch/relaunch heavy drones for 5 min per tackler and hope to god you're still alive at the end or fit little tiny weapons+webs and hope that works (taking the whole "drone" part of "droneboat" completely out of the picture)
Additionally, NPC's are often at range that cannot be bridged, meaning the drones have to go way way way out of scoop range to even begin to deal damage. They will be dead long before they are able to be safely returned or rr'ed from their owners.
And finally, when a drone blows up, that's a problem. Even a Domi or Ishtar will run out of drones very quickly at the rate that sleepers pop them. Once the drones are popped, the ship is screwed and completely defenseless because of the aforementioned lack of gun dps.
These are difficulties that all turret and missile based ships do not face. I understand that you want things to be "harder," but this honesty just smells like laziness. You programmed the AI to be smart and that's great, but I can guarantee that if sleepers started spamming 100% effective defender missiles and tracking disrupters, turret and missile ships would be *****ing about it too. And they would be justified, because that class of ship would then be broken to hell and back just the way drones are now.
Please, keep the smart AI, we love it, honest to God. It's great to have RR/re-targeting npc's that actually pose a challenge and threat...but making them completely disarm an entire class of ship (and let's face it, half the Galllente fleet falls under the category in question) is unreasonable.
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Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.05.27 08:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Please, keep the smart AI, we love it, honest to God. It's great to have RR/re-targeting npc's that actually pose a challenge and threat...but making them completely disarm an entire class of ship (and let's face it, half the Galllente fleet falls under the category in question) is unreasonable.
Well said. The Sleepers cannot destroy a Zealot's turrets or a Drake's launchers. The Sleepers I have thus far encountered have never used defenders or tracking disruptors to counter those weapons systems. So why must their AI systematically cripple drone ships and ONLY drone ships?
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:47:00 -
[44]
Domis are the best ships for wh space. Did you ever consider that other ships (i.e. turret ships) need to drop their main weapons in favour of remote repair/energy transfer? Domis don't have that problem which is why they make a great grunt work for wh space. Add in a few dps ships (that you guessed right only survive because of the domis) and you're set.
I see no one here complaining how "unfair" it is that a domi can fit a full rack of rr/energy transfer and still maintain 350-400dps where other ships cannot (reasonably). So lets just make everything fair game and convert domi to a turret ship?
Ships have advantages and disadvantages. If you can only see the disadvantages of a domi in wh space then you're braindead. End of story. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.05.27 12:18:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Arushia
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Please, keep the smart AI, we love it, honest to God. It's great to have RR/re-targeting npc's that actually pose a challenge and threat...but making them completely disarm an entire class of ship (and let's face it, half the Galllente fleet falls under the category in question) is unreasonable.
Well said. The Sleepers cannot destroy a Zealot's turrets or a Drake's launchers. The Sleepers I have thus far encountered have never used defenders or tracking disruptors to counter those weapons systems. So why must their AI systematically cripple drone ships and ONLY drone ships?
Sure they can! If the zealot pilot is not smart , they usually destroy all the 5 guns with a very few of their volleys... alongside with the engines, shield, armor, ull and everythgin else on ship :P
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Alxea
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Posted - 2009.05.27 13:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Some details on that to clear possible confusion.
Sleepers and drones:
Drones are fine for the Sleeper sites that may be soloted, however you need to watch them closely and actually adopt tactics to keep them alive. I remember some players writting guides on how to actually handle them on such circumstances so it may be worth reading them . Considering sites that may not be soloed, this should still not much of an issue if you are in a fleet with proper coordination and experience.
Sleepers were created to dynamically react and attack targets they consider as threat and that includes drones if you rely on them as your primary source of damage. We wanted to provide PvE content for Apocrypha that actually offered challenge to our player base, so yes, current Sleeper behavior remains definately intended.
Concerning future mission revamp:
It is definately on our to-do list. When and how we decide to achieve this is not clear yet since it remains a huge task with wide repercussions.
One possibility on revamping mission NPCs could be to tune their numbers down and adjust the bounties accordingly to keep the same average bounty output per mission as we have now. In such case each individual mission NPCs would be more challenging to match their reduced numbers; whatever AI and tactics they will use is not defined at the time being, but that could include drone focus as well as it could not; please understand we just cannot give any detail on what is not properly defined yet.
In all cases missions that can be done solo now should still be achievable then, what we would like to avoid remains pilots completing them with little or no implication and effort (read launch drones/fof missiles, activate tank, go out for lunch, come back and loot).
It is clear to me that the majority of drone users have been ignored and want to be put out of the picture. And that posts are being ignored, drones haven't been tested very well around this, the development team seems to be basing all their EXP off their testers that have 450,000,000 SP and ignoring the input of the players at this time.
It looks like fof missiles are the way to go for the missioners future or just mine all day to make the isk, hell why even do that when I can sit in a station all day and trade people todeath. Just because nearly every ship in the game uses drones doesn't mean everybody has gun skills. Luckally I do but blasters need some help too with tracking issues. I really like your effort to make missions more challanging but nerfing drones in the process really isn't the way. Because all drone boats will be good for after the change is PVP.
Lower the price of drones and maybe this wouldn't be a issue, or we can go back to ALLL T1 drones and reload every 5 mins because we run out of drones. BUT we are stuck cus we have no drones left to kill the frigs that scram, Nice...
Ofcorse this is all speculation and only judging from bad experiances with drone boats VS sleeper spawns that are unbeatable... compared to missile boats having no prob beating sleepers. Looks like the caldari remains the best pve ships in the game. Cus they have no disadvantages agenst sleepers. I'll be happy when my caldari crusier 5 finishes in 2 weeks, insta nighthawk pawnage. Sorry drones but your only good for pvp now. :( Good bye my drones. I'll miss ya... Hello missiles.
Thats how you adapt simply go to the better race for the job. Unless the difficulty of rats can be addressed where they don't mean insta death for your T2 lights and mid's... but heavy drones and senturys are just not a option agenst elite frigs much less sleeper frigs. Its required with small drones, no way around it for turret boats. It will need a careful look before they leap thats for sure with drones vs the new rats. It is simple, deploy = insta drone lost = recall = epic DPS loss = epic fail of drones.
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Alxea
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Posted - 2009.05.27 14:03:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 26/05/2009 15:34:00 Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 26/05/2009 15:31:56 You're still relying on drones? Time to switch, drones are about to become exctinct. Though I think they got a slight boost with the probe changes (i.e. not acting as beacons anymore).
Unless you mean the deployed guns (i.e. sentries).
I'm sure it'd be fun using drones in a heavy mission - as soon as they get aggro, they're dead. Because you can't see they have aggro until they're hit. And likely webbed, so calling them back is useless.
Of course, we could stay close to the drones and micro-manage them. But why should we? They're drones - they're supposed to be somewhat independent. (Not "kill everything while I'm afk", but "go there, do stuff", without us hovering next to them.)
If we'd at least see when they get aggro. But I guess drones are about to die anyway, CCP doesn't seem to like them. Guns are faster anyway, unless you're really close range.
This is true, luckally for me I'm going for missiles for pve, and just stick with drones and turrets for pvp. 30 Per/23 will FTW!
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Alxea
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Posted - 2009.05.27 14:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Myra2007 Domis are the best ships for wh space. Did you ever consider that other ships (i.e. turret ships) need to drop their main weapons in favour of remote repair/energy transfer? Domis don't have that problem which is why they make a great grunt work for wh space. Add in a few dps ships (that you guessed right only survive because of the domis) and you're set.
I see no one here complaining how "unfair" it is that a domi can fit a full rack of rr/energy transfer and still maintain 350-400dps where other ships cannot (reasonably). So lets just make everything fair game and convert domi to a turret ship?
Ships have advantages and disadvantages. If you can only see the disadvantages of a domi in wh space then you're braindead. End of story.
It has been explained countless times that rr-ing drones wile trying to maintain your own tank?, having to scoop up your say senturies since thats the only possible option you have since heavys/mids/lights get webbed and are out of RR range when they are primaried and insta pawned. It will work agenst your sub sleeper spawns in hidden gas belts or hacking sites. Is not a well working plan to the say a sleeper fortress... that can be taken out with a nighthawk or such a ship thats a missile platform with no management at all. But when a BS takes a hit at your standing still sentury drone it does 2000+ damage to it cus it has no tank. What do you do then? When your down to sentury's and frigs are going around you at 15km away and you can shoot all day and not hit them.
File for a stuck partition or turn off your tank and just let the frigs kill you then pod yourself? ROFL Been there, done that. Not so with a missile boat. How many times does this have to be repeated. Light drones fail quickly when frigs keep primarying them and they are webbed with 40 km webs by 5 different frigs and shot at wile your being shot at by them, they go down pretty quickly out of your RR range. And they can't get back to you because they are webbed to death and a sec later insta pawned you lose 2 or 3 light drones.
You normally carry about 20/25 drones. And not many people carry 2 sets of light drones. And surely not a full drone bay, in witch you think people do. Cus the only action those light drones will be seeing is 2 drones gone at the least at every launch and you will break them off and put them back into your drone bay each time they get to the frigate. Its useless to rep them cus they insta pop not only on launch but in approce and in attack out of your RR range and within there web range witch is 40KM. Did I miss something here. Maybe the fact at where do you get all your cap from to run a row of large remote armor reps and dual reps that are required to tank such a plex. Unless your just killing really crappy belt spawns. You wouldn't have the cap to maintain the tank of one sentury with battleships and sleeper turrets all over it... the alpha alone insta pops one. And thats just a J1 those are sipose to be soloable. J2's are when you need fleets.
Keep in mind this can be done no prob with a nighthawk. Yeah in a fortress, or core plex, whatever they call them. Not the crappy ones with just afew crusiers and frigs.
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Meditril
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Posted - 2009.05.27 15:00:00 -
[49]
I think what we need are two operation modes for drones:
1. offense mode: drone behaves like now. 2. defense mode: drones do not use MWD, they activate an armor and shield hardener instead which raises all resists by 40%.
With this the pilot would have more choices. Use the offense mode to make the drones approach the target fast or to chaise a fast target. Use the defense mode if you expect drones beeing shoot at. You drones will be much slower, but the low sig and the resists boost will reduce the damage they recieve. While the speed penalty (no MWD) will significantly affect their effectiveness (especially against fast targets).
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Alxea
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Posted - 2009.05.27 15:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: AncientLord Edited by: AncientLord on 26/05/2009 15:33:32
Originally by: Alxea I see a lot of drone haters who don't use drones here. Atleast some of you know what I'm talking about, I'm glad to see there are not all drone haters here. And btw...
Current skills: 235 (skill points: 31,258,467) I prob have more SP and skill books then half the people who ran their mouth off about how noob I am. Theres nothing wrong with my skills, and I been useing drones since the beginning of when this character was created so don't think you know me or how experianced I am with the use of drones. Because you don't.
The problem has been stated pretty clearly in some posts that have been said and I already pointed out. It sounds like half of the people here that are agenst drones haven't actually ran a REAL sleeper plex. Or even read any of what I said. Maybe afew lines... but oh well. We will see what ccp does about drones when everybody has this prob in regular mission spawns.
I know i called you a noob, but if you will not change your play stlye. You will fail all ower again... until you will notice you need a change.
SP. is irrelevant. How you play, this is all that matters.
Well this is how I played the game before BOB got wiped out.
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Alxea-kills.html
Losses: 47 Kills: 129 Success ratio: 425% (4:1) Lost ISK: 3,660,726,563 Destroyed ISK: 15,560,746,319 Rank: 12,849
I must be a pretty unexperianced player. Being able to solo highsec gank miners in thoraxes, or kill many things in BOB blobs in 0.0 doing over 15bill in isk damages, much less solo people 1vs1 and actually win most of the time. The destroyed isk pretty much speaks for itself. Yeah I'm a real noob. Too bad I don't pvp much anymore since bob died. What a waste since I could have gotten hundreds more kills.
Real life always gets in the way with time being the major factor of when I have the time to kill and when I can afford to be in a 0.0 alliance again VS real life.
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.27 16:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Alxea
It has been explained countless times that rr-ing drones wile trying to maintain your own tank?,
Pardon? I am certainly not talking about rr or energy transfer for your drones. So i don't understand that argument.
Originally by: Alxea
having to scoop up your say senturies since thats the only possible option you have since heavys/mids/lights get webbed and are out of RR range when they are primaried and insta pawned.
Yeah, sentries is the way to go for the most part. I didn't imply anything else so again i don't understand your point.
Originally by: Alxea
It will work agenst your sub sleeper spawns in hidden gas belts or hacking sites. Is not a well working plan to the say a sleeper fortress... that can be taken out with a nighthawk or such a ship thats a missile platform with no management at all.
Put that same scenario in a class 3+ and nighthawk looks like crap. (You won't solo those plexes so thats were rr comes into play.) You know which ship is awesome under those circumstances? Yup, the domi. As i said ships have advantages and disadvantages.
Originally by: Alxea
But when a BS takes a hit at your standing still sentury drone it does 2000+ damage to it cus it has no tank. What do you do then? When your down to sentury's and frigs are going around you at 15km away and you can shoot all day and not hit them.
Sentries aren't supposed to hit frigates. I know how to pilot a drone ship and i am familiar with different drone types and their usage. Again i don't see your point.
Originally by: Alxea
File for a stuck partition or turn off your tank and just let the frigs kill you then pod yourself?
So what does a turret ship do that loses its drones to sleepers? Yup, it dies. Large turrets do not hit frigates(just like your sentries). Don't go into sleeper sites that you cannot reliably complete. I am not saying its great to micromanage your drones - because its not. That doesn't mean there is a problem necessarily.
Not to mention scrambling hardly happens even up to class 3 but thats off topic.
Originally by: Alxea
ROFL Been there, done that. Not so with a missile boat. How many times does this have to be repeated. Light drones fail quickly when frigs keep primarying them and they are webbed with 40 km webs by 5 different frigs and shot at wile your being shot at by them, they go down pretty quickly out of your RR range.
And how do the drones of a turret boat survive again? Pretty much a miracle given how (allegedly) even bonused drones get "instapopped". Its bull****. Even the unbonused light drones on my abaddon don't get instapopped not even mentioning my domi. And thats in class3+. If you manage to get all your light drones killed then you're not a skilled pilot either in terms of sp or player skill.
Originally by: Alxea
Did I miss something here. Maybe the fact at where do you get all your cap from to run a row of large remote armor reps and dual reps that are required to tank such a plex.
You missed quite a lot. I will try to explain it again: You do not use large remote reps on drones. To do that would be silly. You need those to keep your gangmembers alive.
If you're soloing one of the easier wormholes you would maybe put a small rr in to rep your drones after each encounter/site.
This is what you and people like you don't want to understand: while there are ships that solo the lower class whs more easily than a domi there is no ship that excels so much in higher class whs than the ****ing domi. Give and take. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.27 16:55:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Myra2007 Yeah, sentries is the way to go for the most part. I didn't imply anything else so again i don't understand your point.
Originally by: Myra2007 Sentries aren't supposed to hit frigates. I know how to pilot a drone ship and i am familiar with different drone types and their usage. Again i don't see your point.
Contradiction much? As I have said, if you are on your own in a drone ship, then your light and me drones will be attacked in a few seconds after launch. Sentries can't hit frigs. How do you propose kiling frigs other than spending 10 minutes scooping drones every 10 seconds, losing a drone for every frigate, and generally getting annoyed?
Originally by: Myra2007 Put that same scenario in a class 3+ and nighthawk looks like crap. (You won't solo those plexes so thats were rr comes into play.) You know which ship is awesome under those circumstances? Yup, the domi. As i said ships have advantages and disadvantages.
So would you support say.. having caldari able to run L1 and L2 missions, while gallente can run L3 and L4? No? Then I don't see why it should be like that for wormholes.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.27 17:10:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Sleepers and drones:
Drones are fine for the Sleeper sites that may be soloted, however you need to watch them closely and actually adopt tactics to keep them alive. I remember some players writting guides on how to actually handle them on such circumstances so it may be worth reading them . Considering sites that may not be soloed, this should still not much of an issue if you are in a fleet with proper coordination and experience.
Thats really just a "nice" way to say that you should not really use drone ships for this as other weapons will perform better.
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AncientLord
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Posted - 2009.05.27 17:32:00 -
[54]
Alxea:
You dont have to prove nothing to me .
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Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2009.05.31 19:15:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Myra2007 Don't know if you've ever been to w-space but as a matter of fact drones work fine. Actually the dominix is one of the best ships to have available there.
Ummmm... I live in wh space and im a pure drone pilot with a domi, while my tank is awsome, looseing t2 heavies and med drones because they are webbed 60 km out and killed even after i had taken the agro, yea that sux and means that drones dont work fine. SO dunno if you ever been in w-space but as a matter of fact drones dont work fine.
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.05.31 22:40:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Lili Lu on 31/05/2009 22:40:17
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Sleepers and drones:
In all cases missions that can be done solo now should still be achievable then, what we would like to avoid remains pilots completing them with little or no implication and effort (read launch drones/fof missiles, activate tank, go out for lunch, come back and loot).
Bolded the funny part.
Active tanks are rarely afk unless you've spent alot of isk for faction/deadspace/officer cap and rep mods and many slots for the cap regen mods (which hurt your ability to do damage or locomote to distant gates).
If you want to talk about afk tanks then you need to look at passive shield tanking where tech I BCs can realatively easily complete level 4s unlike active BCs and where passive tech II shield tank BCs can complete some level 5s, unlike any active tank ship getting neuted to hell.
Are you guys actually playing this game you work on?
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Lianoras
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Posted - 2009.05.31 23:20:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Lili Lu
Bolded the funny part.
Active tanks are rarely afk unless you've spent alot of isk for faction/deadspace/officer cap and rep mods and many slots for the cap regen mods (which hurt your ability to do damage or locomote to distant gates).
If you want to talk about afk tanks then you need to look at passive shield tanking where tech I BCs can realatively easily complete level 4s unlike active BCs and where passive tech II shield tank BCs can complete some level 5s, unlike any active tank ship getting neuted to hell.
Are you guys actually playing this game you work on?
You ever try permatanking a domi? It's very easy.
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.06.01 00:05:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lianoras
You ever try permatanking a domi? It's very easy.
Yeah, it can be done. Do it on my alt, but I don't go afk. The whole afk with drones is half myth. You need missions with no new spawns. You need to aggro the entire room and tank it (dual LAR or LAR/MAR rep and perma? again not saying can't be done but lol I do not agree that it's easy as advertized). And don't do this against blood raiders or your cap will fail, or against Guristas because they seem to shoot drones no matter what you do. Once your drones or cap are gone soon to follow will be your ship. Without those listed prereqs, say goodbye to expensive tech II drones and possibly your ship.
Whereas if you really want afk, get a full passive shield drake and FoF. No expensive drones to lose, and hey you're in a BC.
This is my point. The prevalent and real AFK is a passive shield (Drake usually, but domi, myrm whatever).
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Amitious Turkey
Gallente Ammo Tech Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.01 06:54:00 -
[59]
Originally by: AncientLord Edited by: AncientLord on 25/05/2009 12:48:39
You are one noob! And you know why ? Becouse you realy on drones, instead of your ship.
LEARN TO PLAY OR DIE
Edit: Beter AI at lvl 3-4-5 missions, beter for us... which got brains. Evervody else will cry
Originally by: Blane Xero Low level sleeper AI + A bounty boost by 5x and reducing missions to a few key NPC's, giving the actual AGENT REWARD a bit of a boost too.
Fix the AI so that drones are no longer instantly primary, (Though using RR's in highs should help)
Why fix ? You dont see the point.
AI will atack 1st. those that atack them, if the "healer" is doing a bit to much healing. They will atack the healer... etc...
But it seems you folks dont have a clue, how mechanics works.
Umm, what if I don't like guns or missiles? The game wouldn't be fun to me any more if drones were only a secondary weapon system. And I don't think that was Blane's point...he was suggesting a modification of the sleeper AI so drones would be more viable against them, so people who don't like guns won't have to use them. My sig was fail, but now it isn't.
Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3
GO NAVIGATOR <3 |
Amitious Turkey
Gallente Ammo Tech Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.01 06:58:00 -
[60]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Some details on that to clear possible confusion.
Sleepers and drones:
Drones are fine for the Sleeper sites that may be soloted, however you need to watch them closely and actually adopt tactics to keep them alive. I remember some players writting guides on how to actually handle them on such circumstances so it may be worth reading them . Considering sites that may not be soloed, this should still not much of an issue if you are in a fleet with proper coordination and experience.
Sleepers were created to dynamically react and attack targets they consider as threat and that includes drones if you rely on them as your primary source of damage. We wanted to provide PvE content for Apocrypha that actually offered challenge to our player base, so yes, current Sleeper behavior remains definately intended.
Oh. Hmm. My sig was fail, but now it isn't.
Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3
GO NAVIGATOR <3 |
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