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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.09.10 06:57:00 -
[31]
These people whining about their battleships not being the uber weapon to end all other weapons make me sick.
Just stfu.
Please.
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.09.10 06:57:00 -
[32]
These people whining about their battleships not being the uber weapon to end all other weapons make me sick.
Just stfu.
Please.
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AvanCade
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Posted - 2004.09.10 07:49:00 -
[33]
Battleships are power machines, and thus expensive. People dont like losing battleships so they place WCS. Smart if you ask me, warp out, repair, warp back in. Good ! If Battleships dont need support ships to kill em all (as before the gun, missile and drone patches) then your goal in EVE could be: Get a battleship and kill em all. Now you have to: Get a ship and teamplay to gank em all !
E-Nuff Said :)
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AvanCade
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Posted - 2004.09.10 07:49:00 -
[34]
Battleships are power machines, and thus expensive. People dont like losing battleships so they place WCS. Smart if you ask me, warp out, repair, warp back in. Good ! If Battleships dont need support ships to kill em all (as before the gun, missile and drone patches) then your goal in EVE could be: Get a battleship and kill em all. Now you have to: Get a ship and teamplay to gank em all !
E-Nuff Said :)
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.09.10 07:57:00 -
[35]
Let me see.
You want your battleship to be able to gank smaller ships, AND stand toe-to-toe with combat equiped BS's?
One set-up fits all?
Not going to EVER see that again in Eve (I hope).
If you can't fit your ship for the task at hand, that is your fault. That one skill is probably the most important deciding factor in combat engagements. If you can't cut it, don't try.
Seriously.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.09.10 07:57:00 -
[36]
Let me see.
You want your battleship to be able to gank smaller ships, AND stand toe-to-toe with combat equiped BS's?
One set-up fits all?
Not going to EVER see that again in Eve (I hope).
If you can't fit your ship for the task at hand, that is your fault. That one skill is probably the most important deciding factor in combat engagements. If you can't cut it, don't try.
Seriously.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.09.10 07:59:00 -
[37]
Bismark was sunk (at least deadly wounded) by a handfull swordfish torpedo-bombers. Battleships are not meant to hunt alone. In modern naval warfare they totally lost their role - in eve they still are of use.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.09.10 07:59:00 -
[38]
Bismark was sunk (at least deadly wounded) by a handfull swordfish torpedo-bombers. Battleships are not meant to hunt alone. In modern naval warfare they totally lost their role - in eve they still are of use.
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Iluyen
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Posted - 2004.09.10 09:28:00 -
[39]
 Originally by: Lifewire
Bismark was sunk (at least deadly wounded) by a handfull swordfish torpedo-bombers. Battleships are not meant to hunt alone. In modern naval warfare they totally lost their role - in eve they still are of use.
hgkjhkghgkgkgj will all the morons referring to the Bismarck go check their history books and see what actually happened and how big the fleet was they had to throw at the Bismarck to sink it. In essence the Bismarck was a tier 2 BS that got attacked by serveral tier 1 BS, a load of cruisers and frigates. The fact that the "final blow" was landed by some frigates does not mean these ships could have taken on the Bismarck on their own.
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Iluyen
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Posted - 2004.09.10 09:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lifewire
Bismark was sunk (at least deadly wounded) by a handfull swordfish torpedo-bombers. Battleships are not meant to hunt alone. In modern naval warfare they totally lost their role - in eve they still are of use.
hgkjhkghgkgkgj will all the morons referring to the Bismarck go check their history books and see what actually happened and how big the fleet was they had to throw at the Bismarck to sink it. In essence the Bismarck was a tier 2 BS that got attacked by serveral tier 1 BS, a load of cruisers and frigates. The fact that the "final blow" was landed by some frigates does not mean these ships could have taken on the Bismarck on their own.
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Shirei
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Posted - 2004.09.10 10:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: NoHawker
1 sensor booster isn't fast enough to lock Battleships so I need 2. My skill for lock times is at level 5.
You might want to improve your reaction time. I have no problem whatsoever locking and scrambling other BS before they warp out without a single sensor booster when I am in a BS.
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Shirei
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Posted - 2004.09.10 10:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: NoHawker
1 sensor booster isn't fast enough to lock Battleships so I need 2. My skill for lock times is at level 5.
You might want to improve your reaction time. I have no problem whatsoever locking and scrambling other BS before they warp out without a single sensor booster when I am in a BS.
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Commander Jones
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Posted - 2004.09.10 11:00:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Marcus Janus
Yes like the Bismark, you should be sunk by smaller ships used in groups...
hehe that's what I wanted to say. Guess I'll need to be quicker next time
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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Commander Jones
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Posted - 2004.09.10 11:00:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Marcus Janus
Yes like the Bismark, you should be sunk by smaller ships used in groups...
hehe that's what I wanted to say. Guess I'll need to be quicker next time
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2004.09.10 12:18:00 -
[45]
Using Warp Core Stabalisers
Sounds like running away to me.
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Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2004.09.10 12:18:00 -
[46]
Using Warp Core Stabalisers
Sounds like running away to me.
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Frazzled
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Posted - 2004.09.10 12:29:00 -
[47]
Quick analogy: apologies if it has been made before.
Modern warfare: my $50 RPG shaped charge warhead hits tail rotor of $25000000 Apache Longbow attack helicopter. Apached dives into concrete at 20mph, no more attack heli.
Ouch. A small cheap thing can easily destroy large expensive things. Fact of life, bit of an arse, find a way to deal with it 
Sorry if thats been said before, but I wanted to say it again 
Fraz |
Frazzled
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Posted - 2004.09.10 12:29:00 -
[48]
Quick analogy: apologies if it has been made before.
Modern warfare: my $50 RPG shaped charge warhead hits tail rotor of $25000000 Apache Longbow attack helicopter. Apached dives into concrete at 20mph, no more attack heli.
Ouch. A small cheap thing can easily destroy large expensive things. Fact of life, bit of an arse, find a way to deal with it
Sorry if thats been said before, but I wanted to say it again
Fraz |
Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.09.10 12:38:00 -
[49]
Give Battleships a warp core stabilisation bonus of +2 for tier 2 Battleships, +1 for tier 1. This will partially address the issue of single frigs locking down another frig or a battleship with equal ease. I mean can we really wait for this Kali EW system to come in??
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.09.10 12:38:00 -
[50]
Give Battleships a warp core stabilisation bonus of +2 for tier 2 Battleships, +1 for tier 1. This will partially address the issue of single frigs locking down another frig or a battleship with equal ease. I mean can we really wait for this Kali EW system to come in??
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NoHawker
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Posted - 2004.09.11 00:01:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Having a separate set of slots for EW would, I think, kill the variety you have now, and pretty much predetermine the outcome. Simply, someone like me would have every such slot fitted for defense, forcing you to fit every slot offensively and STILL not be able to catch me. 6 stabilizers vs. 6 disruptors, or sensors vs. jammers, the defender always has the advantage.
That's the problem the defender shouldn't have the advantage no one should have the advantage. Why should escaping be easier then trapping it should be equal. The real key to survival should be mostly about avoidance and if your lucky or very skilled escaping some of the times.
There are so many electronic gadgets in EVE I don't think their will be a problem creating a family of slots solely for electronics. I don't think it will kill variety but probably make more variety in set ups... think about it.
Quote:
These people whining about their battleships not being the uber weapon to end all other weapons make me sick.
Battleships are the uber weapons to end all weapons in EVE till the Dreadnoughts and Titans come out. They just need to be a little more useful to pilots flying on their own. Battleships are warships designed by name to kill other ships with aid or not.
Quote:
Let me see.
You want your battleship to be able to gank smaller ships, AND stand toe-to-toe with combat equiped BS's?
You're absolutely mistaken and totally blind to the fact that I said I don't care or want the ability to destroy ships smaller then the Battleship class unless they are industrials.
Quote:
Not going to EVER see that again in Eve (I hope).
If you can't fit your ship for the task at hand, that is your fault. That one skill is probably the most important deciding factor in combat engagements. If you can't cut it, don't try.
Words that couldn't be truer coming from a n00b are a person in total denial. If you have some combat experience you should know better then saying that remark. Battleships can't fight there best while trying to catch other Battleships thanks to the electronics that replace defensive and offensive modules.
Quote:
Bismark was sunk (at least deadly wounded) by a handfull swordfish torpedo-bombers. Battleships are not meant to hunt alone. In modern naval warfare they totally lost their role - in eve they still are of use.
Hey Battleships weren't meant to mine either now where they? Battleships are fully contained war machines that need no assistance to kill. Now real world navies never send capitol ships alone because they are too expensive to risk without support. If it's my choice to fly my Battleship alone like so many others do then I can and I can also expect to successfully engage other capitol ships but that's not how it is in EVE.
The only ship you can fly alone and expect to kill things your size on equal footing is with frigates... why should it be like that only? Cruisers need support to kill other cruisers... something is really wrong with this picture. This gank mentality is getting old.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
NoHawker
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Posted - 2004.09.11 00:01:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Having a separate set of slots for EW would, I think, kill the variety you have now, and pretty much predetermine the outcome. Simply, someone like me would have every such slot fitted for defense, forcing you to fit every slot offensively and STILL not be able to catch me. 6 stabilizers vs. 6 disruptors, or sensors vs. jammers, the defender always has the advantage.
That's the problem the defender shouldn't have the advantage no one should have the advantage. Why should escaping be easier then trapping it should be equal. The real key to survival should be mostly about avoidance and if your lucky or very skilled escaping some of the times.
There are so many electronic gadgets in EVE I don't think their will be a problem creating a family of slots solely for electronics. I don't think it will kill variety but probably make more variety in set ups... think about it.
Quote:
These people whining about their battleships not being the uber weapon to end all other weapons make me sick.
Battleships are the uber weapons to end all weapons in EVE till the Dreadnoughts and Titans come out. They just need to be a little more useful to pilots flying on their own. Battleships are warships designed by name to kill other ships with aid or not.
Quote:
Let me see.
You want your battleship to be able to gank smaller ships, AND stand toe-to-toe with combat equiped BS's?
You're absolutely mistaken and totally blind to the fact that I said I don't care or want the ability to destroy ships smaller then the Battleship class unless they are industrials.
Quote:
Not going to EVER see that again in Eve (I hope).
If you can't fit your ship for the task at hand, that is your fault. That one skill is probably the most important deciding factor in combat engagements. If you can't cut it, don't try.
Words that couldn't be truer coming from a n00b are a person in total denial. If you have some combat experience you should know better then saying that remark. Battleships can't fight there best while trying to catch other Battleships thanks to the electronics that replace defensive and offensive modules.
Quote:
Bismark was sunk (at least deadly wounded) by a handfull swordfish torpedo-bombers. Battleships are not meant to hunt alone. In modern naval warfare they totally lost their role - in eve they still are of use.
Hey Battleships weren't meant to mine either now where they? Battleships are fully contained war machines that need no assistance to kill. Now real world navies never send capitol ships alone because they are too expensive to risk without support. If it's my choice to fly my Battleship alone like so many others do then I can and I can also expect to successfully engage other capitol ships but that's not how it is in EVE.
The only ship you can fly alone and expect to kill things your size on equal footing is with frigates... why should it be like that only? Cruisers need support to kill other cruisers... something is really wrong with this picture. This gank mentality is getting old.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.09.11 03:50:00 -
[53]
Originally by: NoHawker
That's the problem the defender shouldn't have the advantage no one should have the advantage. Why should escaping be easier then trapping it should be equal.
Fine, if the defender doesn't have the advantage in strength, the attacker shouldn't have any of the following possible advantages: surprise, the ability to customize loadout because they know what prey they'll hit, the ability to choose warp-in range, choosing the location and time of the attack...
Can you do that?
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.09.11 03:50:00 -
[54]
Originally by: NoHawker
That's the problem the defender shouldn't have the advantage no one should have the advantage. Why should escaping be easier then trapping it should be equal.
Fine, if the defender doesn't have the advantage in strength, the attacker shouldn't have any of the following possible advantages: surprise, the ability to customize loadout because they know what prey they'll hit, the ability to choose warp-in range, choosing the location and time of the attack...
Can you do that?
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Veneth
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Posted - 2004.09.11 06:31:00 -
[55]
I kinda have to agree with ya NoHawker, with the release of new ships and the 'balancing' going on in Eve the battleship has really taken a massive hit to its stature.
Bang for the buck has all but gone away. and a battleship isn't really something to be afraid of. it's gotten to the point that when I fly my ceptor I'm not really afraid of a BS, there's only a handfull of modules at it's pilots hands to kill me (Nosferatus, Energy Neutralizers and Webbers - maybe light drones) while a frigate posses much more of a problem as it's much faster and has better tracking. Perhaps this is the way it should, but once you figure that I can both web and scramble a BS than you relieze I've made this ship a massive target while there's nothing he can do about it. Something does seem amiss in eve but unfortunatly I don't see a way to balance it back out.
The battleship shouldn't be the end all be all, but it should be very close.
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Veneth
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Posted - 2004.09.11 06:31:00 -
[56]
I kinda have to agree with ya NoHawker, with the release of new ships and the 'balancing' going on in Eve the battleship has really taken a massive hit to its stature.
Bang for the buck has all but gone away. and a battleship isn't really something to be afraid of. it's gotten to the point that when I fly my ceptor I'm not really afraid of a BS, there's only a handfull of modules at it's pilots hands to kill me (Nosferatus, Energy Neutralizers and Webbers - maybe light drones) while a frigate posses much more of a problem as it's much faster and has better tracking. Perhaps this is the way it should, but once you figure that I can both web and scramble a BS than you relieze I've made this ship a massive target while there's nothing he can do about it. Something does seem amiss in eve but unfortunatly I don't see a way to balance it back out.
The battleship shouldn't be the end all be all, but it should be very close.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.09.11 06:39:00 -
[57]
Originally by: NoHoper
Words that couldn't be truer coming from a n00b are a person in total denial. If you have some combat experience you should know better then saying that remark. Battleships can't fight there best while trying to catch other Battleships thanks to the electronics that replace defensive and offensive modules.
\o/ I'm a n00b!
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.09.11 06:39:00 -
[58]
Originally by: NoHoper
Words that couldn't be truer coming from a n00b are a person in total denial. If you have some combat experience you should know better then saying that remark. Battleships can't fight there best while trying to catch other Battleships thanks to the electronics that replace defensive and offensive modules.
\o/ I'm a n00b!
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.09.11 10:29:00 -
[59]
Check your history books...
There is no such thing as a fair fight, all fights have been won by superior numbers, superior firepower or superior tactics!
Thats just the truth.
If you want to trap another battleship so it cant get away and you can easily kill it then that means you want to gank it and if your gonna gank it anyways then you might aswell get soem support. Get a buddy or two buddies in smaller supporting ships, get them to lock him down while you maul the victim, pretty easy!
You want a 1v1 where you can gank the other pilot? Then obviously you need a superior class ship, since ther eis nothing superior to a battleship in EVE, your **** out of luck!
Battleships are not weak ships...
Grab your cruiser and pick a fight with a battleship 1v1, see hwo you do, if you can beat him then you have reason to complain, otherwise there is no reason to complain and no you shouldn't be able to kill fleets of other ships by yourself and you shouldn't be able to kill that other dude regardless of his setup.
If someone make s asetup to RUN AWAY from any and everything then thats his call and then he will run away from everyone, bare in mind thoguh that that ship can't do anything BUT run away. If you rig your ship to stop runners from running then you will end up with a ship that doesn't do anything BUT stop runners.
There IS a counter to everything... you just can't fit multyple countermeasures on 1 ship and still expect it to maintain its role as combat ship.
If you take your bismark and stuff it full of electronic gadgets to fend off nme attack planes and electronic warfare then surely you will need to dump some of those deckguns to handle all the new stuff...not to mention those deckguns don't do squat against fighterplanes and missiles!
You fit your ship to do what you need it to do!
If you fit your ship to stop runners then dont complain that you dont stand a fighting chance if you stop someone that isnt a runner but a guy who decided that its better to stay and duke it out then to run away.
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.09.11 10:29:00 -
[60]
Check your history books...
There is no such thing as a fair fight, all fights have been won by superior numbers, superior firepower or superior tactics!
Thats just the truth.
If you want to trap another battleship so it cant get away and you can easily kill it then that means you want to gank it and if your gonna gank it anyways then you might aswell get soem support. Get a buddy or two buddies in smaller supporting ships, get them to lock him down while you maul the victim, pretty easy!
You want a 1v1 where you can gank the other pilot? Then obviously you need a superior class ship, since ther eis nothing superior to a battleship in EVE, your **** out of luck!
Battleships are not weak ships...
Grab your cruiser and pick a fight with a battleship 1v1, see hwo you do, if you can beat him then you have reason to complain, otherwise there is no reason to complain and no you shouldn't be able to kill fleets of other ships by yourself and you shouldn't be able to kill that other dude regardless of his setup.
If someone make s asetup to RUN AWAY from any and everything then thats his call and then he will run away from everyone, bare in mind thoguh that that ship can't do anything BUT run away. If you rig your ship to stop runners from running then you will end up with a ship that doesn't do anything BUT stop runners.
There IS a counter to everything... you just can't fit multyple countermeasures on 1 ship and still expect it to maintain its role as combat ship.
If you take your bismark and stuff it full of electronic gadgets to fend off nme attack planes and electronic warfare then surely you will need to dump some of those deckguns to handle all the new stuff...not to mention those deckguns don't do squat against fighterplanes and missiles!
You fit your ship to do what you need it to do!
If you fit your ship to stop runners then dont complain that you dont stand a fighting chance if you stop someone that isnt a runner but a guy who decided that its better to stay and duke it out then to run away.
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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