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Joachim Kato
Scoopex
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Posted - 2009.05.27 00:59:00 -
[1]
Why is the Eagle broke? I never see anyone fly it. And I always hear how bad it scuks. Is there a viable use for the Eagle? Anyone have any creative fits that would be good for pvp?
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 01:07:00 -
[2]
Blaster Eagle for close range, sniper Eagle for long range.
You can get a decent sniper fitting on there even with 250 rails, and hit from far enough away that nobody except other sniper ships will be able to engage you, and unless they're using lasers most of the damage will be absorbed by the resists. Like most Caldari ships, it suffers in solo PvP but serves a purpose in gangs that similarly sized ships from other races usually don't.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.05.27 01:28:00 -
[3]
It has more range than other sniper hacs but lower dps. Problem is that most fights don't take advantage of that range so it just sits there with weak dps. It's not terrible...it's just not a zealot.
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Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2009.05.27 01:45:00 -
[4]
No point in the long range setup most the time. That's the only problem I see with it. If you want to snip, use a battleship. Cruiser size sniping is kind of lame.
I usually only bring out the eagle for sniping when I'm bored and don't want to use my other ships. ---
Put in space whales!
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 02:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven No point in the long range setup most the time. That's the only problem I see with it. If you want to snip, use a battleship. Cruiser size sniping is kind of lame.
I usually only bring out the eagle for sniping when I'm bored and don't want to use my other ships.
Eagle is still more mobile. It also used to be ~30 million ISK cheaper than any sniper battleship but unfortunately that's no longer the case.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.05.27 02:08:00 -
[6]
Its broke.
It works well enough as a one dimensional long range light sniper, but thats it.
Its sub par with blasters in large part because it has no drone bay and not enough grid.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Vidi Angelus
Caldari Crystal Dynamics Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.05.27 02:18:00 -
[7]
The Eagle makes a nice little sniper.
its damage looks weak in EFT, but remember that the eagle can use ammo with better tracking/damage at longer ranges than other HAC. using ammo with better tracking can mean the eagle does many times the DPS of other HAC.
sometimes an optimal range bonus is a damage bonus and more.
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Essence Praetor
Retribution. Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 03:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Essence Praetor on 27/05/2009 03:46:32
Originally by: Joachim Kato Why is the Eagle broke? I never see anyone fly it. And I always hear how bad it scuks. Is there a viable use for the Eagle? Anyone have any creative fits that would be good for pvp?
In order for something to be broke, it must first have worked in the first place.
Here is the issue:
1.) Guns track at greater ranges. So you don't really need cruiser sized guns to hit something small when its far away.
2.) Its a pea shooter.
3.) Also... there is the Cerberus.
4.) A blaster fitted Eagle compared to the alternatives is an exercise in stupidity.
There you have it.
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.05.27 04:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Thercon Jair on 27/05/2009 04:32:59 *sighs* Here we go again. Third or fourth "eagle sucks"-thread in a couple of days.
Copied from the other Rail thread in Ships & Modules where I gave this answer:
Well, on the Eagle, how about removing 1 Magstab, fitting a RCU II, removing the Invul Field II and fitting a Tracking Computer II with an optimal range script?
Given the theory that an already large optimal profits most from fitting an optimal affecting module, it might make sense on the Eagle. This means you can probably use an ammo down on the range ladder to get to the same optimal, with about the same DPS.
Because, quite frankly, I haven't seen a single Sniper HAC fitting a resistance mod aside the large extender.
Let's see:
[Eagle, Sniper revised] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Large Shield Extender II
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M [empty high slot]
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
As opposed to the Ops fitting, this here does fit.
The Ops Eagle fitting (mind you, it doesn't fit):
216dps @ 93km with Caldari Navy Lead charge, 23899 EHP
The fitting provided by me:
216dps @ 100km with Caldari Navy Thorium charge, 23809 EHP
Looking at a fairly standard Muninn:
223dps @ 105km with Tremor L, 18606 EHP
If you now take into account that Tremor L nerfs your already worse tracking by 25%, then the eagle isn't that bad, is it? ;)
(0.01035 rad/s for the Muninn, 0.02875 rad/s for the Eagle, just as a clarification)
Given this, you can have the eagle perform just as other sniper HACs do at the same ranges. You still have the option to sacrifice your tank for your special ability of "shooting where no other HAC can shoot", but you need more sensor boosters.
I know my fitting differs from most other fittings here, but in the end it does it's job. Uhm.. on another note. What is the "Standard sniper Eagle" fitting most people refer to? It has 212 dps just as the fitting I came up with, yet I believe most people use 3 Magstabs and 1 RCU. So, there needs to be a difference ;)
This said, imagine the ship with more grid, before imagining it with 6 turret slots:
243dps @ 100km using Caldari Navy Thorium charges (ripped 1 RCU II out for a third Magstab II)
6 Turret Hardpoints:
292dps @ 100km using Caldari Navy Thorium charges (ripped 1 RCU II out for a third Magstab II, plus still enough grid to fit a sixt turret)
Understand, the Eagle is fine. It is meant to be a sniper. If CCP wanted to create another Gallente race without drones, they might have done what you suggest. It is meant to be different. Caldari Rails do less DPS than other ships up close, but can fire much farther, while easily matching the other race's ships at their sniper ranges.
And additionally, at Essence: I don't know what you are shooting, but I'm not hitting any Frigate at 100km if it is moving. Not even MWDing inties. Probably the pilots you fight have no understanding of tracking and signature radius whatsoever? Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Thercon Jair Edited by: Thercon Jair on 27/05/2009 04:32:59 *sighs* Here we go again. Third or fourth "eagle sucks"-thread in a couple of days.
Copied from the other Rail thread in Ships & Modules where I gave this answer:
Well, on the Eagle, how about removing 1 Magstab, fitting a RCU II, removing the Invul Field II and fitting a Tracking Computer II with an optimal range script?
Given the theory that an already large optimal profits most from fitting an optimal affecting module, it might make sense on the Eagle. This means you can probably use an ammo down on the range ladder to get to the same optimal, with about the same DPS.
Because, quite frankly, I haven't seen a single Sniper HAC fitting a resistance mod aside the large extender.
Let's see:
[Eagle, Sniper revised] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Large Shield Extender II
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M [empty high slot]
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
As opposed to the Ops fitting, this here does fit.
The Ops Eagle fitting (mind you, it doesn't fit):
216dps @ 93km with Caldari Navy Lead charge, 23899 EHP
The fitting provided by me:
216dps @ 100km with Caldari Navy Thorium charge, 23809 EHP
Looking at a fairly standard Muninn:
223dps @ 105km with Tremor L, 18606 EHP
If you now take into account that Tremor L nerfs your already worse tracking by 25%, then the eagle isn't that bad, is it? ;)
(0.01035 rad/s for the Muninn, 0.02875 rad/s for the Eagle, just as a clarification)
Given this, you can have the eagle perform just as other sniper HACs do at the same ranges. You still have the option to sacrifice your tank for your special ability of "shooting where no other HAC can shoot", but you need more sensor boosters.
I know my fitting differs from most other fittings here, but in the end it does it's job. Uhm.. on another note. What is the "Standard sniper Eagle" fitting most people refer to? It has 212 dps just as the fitting I came up with, yet I believe most people use 3 Magstabs and 1 RCU. So, there needs to be a difference ;)
This said, imagine the ship with more grid, before imagining it with 6 turret slots:
243dps @ 100km using Caldari Navy Thorium charges (ripped 1 RCU II out for a third Magstab II)
6 Turret Hardpoints:
292dps @ 100km using Caldari Navy Thorium charges (ripped 1 RCU II out for a third Magstab II, plus still enough grid to fit a sixt turret)
Understand, the Eagle is fine. It is meant to be a sniper. If CCP wanted to create another Gallente race without drones, they might have done what you suggest. It is meant to be different. Caldari Rails do less DPS than other ships up close, but can fire much farther, while easily matching the other race's ships at their sniper ranges.
And additionally, at Essence: I don't know what you are shooting, but I'm not hitting any Frigate at 100km if it is moving. Not even MWDing inties. Probably the pilots you fight have no understanding of tracking and signature radius whatsoever?
Try against a zealot. 290 dps @ 114km. That tracking will only make up for the loss in damage against frigates, and even then only barely.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:57:00 -
[11]
I'm using my Eagle to scan for complexes right now I refitted the 250 rail fit for a plex blasting fit. Now if only I had learned how to use the new probing system
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Lurana Lay
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.27 05:57:00 -
[12]
In the immortal words of somebody I can't recall: The Eagle is good at doing things that arent worth doing.
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logeoff now
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:33:00 -
[13]
cerberus can work close range with really good dps. cerberus can work long range with really good dps, same range as eagle.
So then... why do we need eagle again? Instant damage? naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:35:00 -
[14]
Quote: Try against a zealot. 290 dps @ 114km. That tracking will only make up for the loss in damage against frigates, and even then only barely.
Like other caldari whiners, you also like to compare against the strongest ship, so you can whine about how bad your ships are. Lets just compare it against a muninn, or a deimos, and not against the zealot which is way stronger than any other hac sniper.
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logeoff now
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: Try against a zealot. 290 dps @ 114km. That tracking will only make up for the loss in damage against frigates, and even then only barely.
Like other caldari whiners, you also like to compare against the strongest ship, so you can whine about how bad your ships are. Lets just compare it against a muninn, or a deimos, and not against the zealot which is way stronger than any other hac sniper.
Why should anyone want to compare things vs. some crap ship? lol
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:44:00 -
[16]
I said eagle sucked not caldari sucked. I fly almost purely caldari and like it. And why the hell would you compare against another sub-par ship? Sorry, unlike kindergarten we don't give you gold stars just for participating.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.27 07:46:00 -
[17]
Because it is reasonable to compare to the average, not the best. If you always compare to the best, you will always have 3 races whining they need to be better. It is far more logical to nerf one to get it in line with the rest, than to boost 3 others.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.27 07:49:00 -
[18]
Solution : +1 turret hardpoint + 300 base pg + little cap and it will be worthy to be used.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.05.27 08:05:00 -
[19]
Let them whine. Eve is about specialization; the right ship for the right job. There is no best ship for every situation but for specific situations their clearly is. 90% of the time in a sniper hac gang that ship is the zealot and if you want to fly an eagle into one you have to realize that. By the way, another nail in the coffin is the eagle's abysmal alpha.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2009.05.27 08:54:00 -
[20]
The eagle looks so horribly ugly and with bonuses that make sub par cruiser dps go extreme distances.
Clearly its role in the game is to make the other HACs look better.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:40:00 -
[21]
Eagle is the cheapest anti support sniper ***got in game. Can shoot 200km++. Use it in fleets and be happy. Useless for tank&gank online.
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.05.27 11:30:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Max Tux on 27/05/2009 11:30:55 if you are only going to use the eagle at 100km, there is no point, you can fit a ferox in the exact same way, and it has the same DPS ( extra turret vs 5% per level damage) the only differences is a short range ( 110km) and about 1/2 the price, oh yes, and insurable.
edit: spelling
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Essence Praetor
Retribution. Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 12:04:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Essence Praetor on 27/05/2009 12:05:05 I was going to say something here but....
Bleh...
Its an eagle thread . . .
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.27 12:07:00 -
[24]
It's not broke. It just likes to keep its cash tucked away in a savings account with limited withdrawal to ensure it doesn't spend it all on shiny new toys. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2009.05.27 14:21:00 -
[25]
It needs its PG boosted to about the level of the Deimos so that it can fit a sniper layout without a fitting mod (or at least a PDS instead of an RCU II) like the Zealot and Muninn can, but otherwise it's not really 'broken'. It's a niche ship that sacrifices DPS for range and will generally get out-DPSed by other HACs so in today's world of EFT warrioring it's deemed by many people as inferior. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.05.27 15:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Joachim Kato Why is the Eagle broke? I never see anyone fly it. And I always hear how bad it scuks. Is there a viable use for the Eagle? Anyone have any creative fits that would be good for pvp?
no one flies it because the cerb is better. The cerb is better at short range ( hams) and long range( heavies). The only thing rails do better is instant damage.
The cerb with heavies hits for almost 100 dps more at almost 3 times range. this is without adding any other mods but weapons at level 5. it has slightly better scan res and better target range.
Run HAMs with a buffer setup and your spewing nearly 500 dps @ better than 35km on a 56k buffer tank with greater that 65 % resist across the board. cap stable and almost completely immune to nuets.
its not that the eagle sucks its just that the cerb is that much better. cerbs are better bang for the buck. just like comparing a moa to a caracal. caracal is better bang for the buck.
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Drahomi'r Bozi'dar
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Posted - 2009.05.27 19:11:00 -
[27]
Love Caldari but the eagle is crap, as a blaster boat it sucks and there are better options.. Fly a Deimos if ya want a blaster gank ship or run with a Zealot for sniping or a Ferox.. Hell even a Cerb is better and thats not saying much. As for Caldari are best with a fleet, thats true, you need the support to make it worthwhile, solo they are not which is half the problem.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.05.28 00:10:00 -
[28]
The Eagle gets two optimal range bonuses, which means as a blaster boat, where optimal range dissapears almost into oblivion, it only gets 2 bonuses, one of which is for tanking. That makes it a poor blaster boat.
As a sniping boat the eagle gets the longest range, with the least damage. It also has decent tracking, but that only comes into play very much against frigates. The problem with longest range/low dps is that sniping in a fleet is about getting out to a particular range, and then doing as much dps as possible. Loading higher damage ammo and reducing your range to the range of the other sniper hacs in fleet doesnt compensate all that well.
The other thing is that the role of pure sniper hac isn'tto useful anyway. Its very niche.
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Mordou
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Posted - 2009.05.28 00:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: Try against a zealot. 290 dps @ 114km. That tracking will only make up for the loss in damage against frigates, and even then only barely.
Like other caldari whiners, you also like to compare against the strongest ship, so you can whine about how bad your ships are. Lets just compare it against a muninn, or a deimos, and not against the zealot which is way stronger than any other hac sniper.
Well under that premise anytime anyone complains about anything then you can simply refute it. Ship too slow? Compare it to a freighter, it's not so slow anymore, ship doesn't do enough damage? Try against a noob ship, does plenty of damage, ship doesn't tank well? Try against a pod, tanks great. I shoulden't have to compare to a worse ship to make mine seem good.
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shyla stylez
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Posted - 2009.08.26 03:59:00 -
[30]
Just a thought but in RL snipers are supposed to be 1 shot killers....
Make the alpha insane and nerf the rate of fire....
Or allow it to fire a special type of bullet, that scrambles/neuts a ship temporarily
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