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Vanzatoarea
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: SweetHoney
Originally by: Kyra Felann I 100% agree that all NPCs should have decent AI, like the sleepers.
Dumb NPCs is what makes missions boring. They should be a challenge instead of just resources to be harvested by shooting at them.
Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up.
If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job.
(English is not my first language, sorry for errors)
I disagree
we allready have waay to much easy isk in game
you think it would be bad if a BS loss would set someone back 2-3 days? I dont , in fact I`d like that , it would mean something when i kill one or when i lose one
As it stands 3 days of hardcore missioning yelds me 1 - 1.2 bill easy....that`s silly
And i am willing to bet that 80% of the people do not live in highsec and most certanly do not LIKE missions . But hey , i had 2 alts in highsec missioning and 1 trading/mining untill not to long ago so yeah....2 of my 3 accounts were stuck in highsec because it`s there where the isk is.
That doesnt mean though that I dont hate the crap out of missions or that I wouldnt celebrate if all combat missions were moved out of highsec . I wonder how my sittuations mirrors the overall EvE situation reguarding Empire population.
Final point : CCP should at least give us the tool to fight our enemy , after all this is EvE . Atm one of my bigest enemy is the highse generic mission runner making my 0.0 time worth a lot less then i would like it to be worth . Shouldnt there be any way of ...stoping him?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: LiveWire364
Originally by: Discrodia How 'bout we just say **** it and 1/2 the value of the loot and salvage and payoff. That way we can mine in highsec and not feel like complete dweebs for making less than they do.
No, because then we'd lose the influx of materials currently needed to sustain the economy. The only way to fix the problem is by making the missions harder.
Now I'm all confused! Are we supposed to be against nerfing missions because they don't really produce enough stuffs to make a difference or are we against nerfing them because they produce so much everyone depends on them?
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Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:17:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up.
If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job.
(English is not my first language, sorry for errors)
I disagree
we allready have waay to much easy isk in game
you think it would be bad if a BS loss would set someone back 2-3 days? I dont , in fact I`d like that , it would mean something when i kill one or when i lose one
As it stands 3 days of hardcore missioning yelds me 1 - 1.2 bill easy....that`s silly
And i am willing to bet that 80% of the people do not live in highsec and most certanly do not LIKE missions . But hey , i had 2 alts in highsec missioning and 1 trading/mining untill not to long ago so yeah....2 of my 3 accounts were stuck in highsec because it`s there where the isk is.
That doesnt mean though that I dont hate the crap out of missions or that I wouldnt celebrate if all combat missions were moved out of highsec . I wonder how my sittuations mirrors the overall EvE situation reguarding Empire population.
Final point : CCP should at least give us the tool to fight our enemy , after all this is EvE . Atm one of my bigest enemy is the highse generic mission runner making my 0.0 time worth a lot less then i would like it to be worth . Shouldnt there be any way of ...stoping him?
Hahahaahaahaaha you are hilarious.
Are you actually saying that you fail to make more money in 0.0 than in empire missions with your 4 ****ing accounts?
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:20:00 -
[34]
I heard from a friend who started playing Eve long before me that in the early days, L4's were utterly brutal. He wowed me with tales of his corp losing a small fleet of Ravens and RRing Scorpions to a single Guristas extravaganza.
I joined later as level 4s were slowly being made easier. There was a time I can recall before Revelations that Soloing a decent level 4 was a little too tough for a single BS to do. Bring those days back. I want the sky to light up with missiles, lasers and blasters again. I want to see my permarunning XL shieldbooster unable to cut the mustard anymore. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:22:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn I heard from a friend who started playing Eve long before me that in the early days, L4's were utterly brutal. He wowed me with tales of his corp losing a small fleet of Ravens and RRing Scorpions to a single Guristas extravaganza.
I joined later as level 4s were slowly being made easier. There was a time I can recall before Revelations that Soloing a decent level 4 was a little too tough for a single BS to do. Bring those days back. I want the sky to light up with missiles, lasers and blasters again. I want to see my permarunning XL shieldbooster unable to cut the mustard anymore.
Go do lvl5s you numnuts.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:25:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kaivos Go do lvl5s you numnuts.
I do them already. I also get scanned down regularly and have to abandon them for a few hours most of the time, shit-for-brains. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:28:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Kaivos Go do lvl5s you numnuts.
I do them already. I also get scanned down regularly and have to abandon them for a few hours most of the time, shit-for-brains.
What's wrong with them then? Too low risk? You make too much isk? Your xl-booster solos those too? what?
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Vanzatoarea
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:31:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kaivos
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up.
If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job.
(English is not my first language, sorry for errors)
I disagree
we allready have waay to much easy isk in game
you think it would be bad if a BS loss would set someone back 2-3 days? I dont , in fact I`d like that , it would mean something when i kill one or when i lose one
As it stands 3 days of hardcore missioning yelds me 1 - 1.2 bill easy....that`s silly
And i am willing to bet that 80% of the people do not live in highsec and most certanly do not LIKE missions . But hey , i had 2 alts in highsec missioning and 1 trading/mining untill not to long ago so yeah....2 of my 3 accounts were stuck in highsec because it`s there where the isk is.
That doesnt mean though that I dont hate the crap out of missions or that I wouldnt celebrate if all combat missions were moved out of highsec . I wonder how my sittuations mirrors the overall EvE situation reguarding Empire population.
Final point : CCP should at least give us the tool to fight our enemy , after all this is EvE . Atm one of my bigest enemy is the highse generic mission runner making my 0.0 time worth a lot less then i would like it to be worth . Shouldnt there be any way of ...stoping him?
Hahahaahaahaaha you are hilarious.
Are you actually saying that you fail to make more money in 0.0 than in empire missions with your 4 ****ing accounts?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- sort of yeah
i mean i cant make money 100% of my game time at a rate of 40m/hour or more in 0.0 you know...other peoplemay have something to say about that
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Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:36:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
sort of yeah
i mean i cant make money 100% of my game time at a rate of 40m/hour or more in 0.0 you know...other peoplemay have something to say about that
The thing is. You don't know how to make more than 40m/hour(exaggerated) in 0.0. Don't blame the rest of us for your lack knowledge.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.28 08:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: LiveWire364 How I see it, it would be quite the opposite. What little mining going on now, if you stop the economy, you stop everything.
Previous experiences in trying to artificially affect mining has shown that there is a huge untapped mining capacity the currently lies dormant. Removing the influx of materials from missions would have exactly one effect: people would start mining again and the economy wouldn't skip a beat.
Quote: Dropping a huge portion of how money is made in this game wouldn't help -- it would hurt. Immensely. The best way is to make the missions harder, so people have to work together instead of solo,
…which means that overnight, you've cut the money influx you're talking about down to half or one third or one tenth (depending on fleet size) of what it is now. It would be the biggest nerf to missions you could ever imagine, short of removing them entirely, and yes, it would certainly collapse the economy.
Quote: Going the route you suggested, effectively halving the amount of money made in the game currently, would cause tons of people to give up mission running totally, causing a huge decrease in the amount of minerals coming into the market, AND cause a spike in people giving up the game for a bit.
Yes, that's exactly what would happen if you forced people to use fleets for missions.
It also doesn't address the actual problem: that money-creation through missions is an entirely static system without any (useful) self-balancing mechanisms that exists completely outside of and separate to the fundamental mechanics that regulate all other ISK- and item-creation mechanics in the game. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.28 08:19:00 -
[41]
Well, this isn't contradictive at all.
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Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 08:32:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Well, this isn't contradictive at all.
Yeah, you know why that is?
Because the real reasons behind the whine are very different from what you are trying to argue.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: TraininVain on 28/05/2009 09:16:21
Originally by: SweetHoney
Originally by: Kyra Felann I 100% agree that all NPCs should have decent AI, like the sleepers.
Dumb NPCs is what makes missions boring. They should be a challenge instead of just resources to be harvested by shooting at them.
Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up.
If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job.
(English is not my first language, sorry for errors)
Yeah. This tbh.
The non-PVP stuff in EVE is just not that interesting.
Profitable PVP looks dullll (station camping people who never undock, gatecamping, ransoming pods instead of popping them).
I also think it's a bit rich for the already rich to be all in favour of nerfing income sources that favour newer players. It's every bit as self serving as people like me who like the easy ISK
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Dramaan
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kaivos Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 07:37:50
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
sort of yeah
i mean i cant make money 100% of my game time at a rate of 40m/hour or more in 0.0 you know...other peoplemay have something to say about that
The thing is. You don't know how to make more than 40m/hour(exaggerated) in 0.0. Don't blame the rest of us for your lack knowledge.
edit:: And nobody wants to make isk 100% of their game time. Because its boring ****.
You now why mission is boring lack challenge.
So why not make them harer so you have to co op whit another player.
Make mission fun is posible to is only make the right story line for the mission, help other npc faction in difficulties in mission to so you need to have remote rep frendly npc.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kaivos
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Kaivos Go do lvl5s you numnuts.
I do them already. I also get scanned down regularly and have to abandon them for a few hours most of the time, shit-for-brains.
What's wrong with them then? Too low risk? You make too much isk? Your xl-booster solos those too? what?
I don't grind missions for money. I want to keep enjoying the game. Level 5's have a good amount of PvE risk and enjoyment. But I don't like to mix PvE and PvP, so when I regularly get scanned down and torn a new one by a roaming gang on the days my reflexes aren't fast enough to hit warp, it tends to put me off running them.
You seem to have taken me for a carebear because I want PvE to be harder. Much anger and little logic there is in you. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Reven Cordelle
Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:21:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kaivos
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Well, this isn't contradictive at all.
Yeah, you know why that is?
Because the real reasons behind the whine are very different from what you are trying to argue.
What am I trying to argue? I'm just making a fleeting statement.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:23:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Originally by: Kaivos
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Well, this isn't contradictive at all.
Yeah, you know why that is?
Because the real reasons behind the whine are very different from what you are trying to argue.
What am I trying to argue? I'm just making a fleeting statement.
Ever heard of "angry little man" syndrome? He reminds me of that. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:25:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dramaan
Originally by: Kaivos Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 07:37:50
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
sort of yeah
i mean i cant make money 100% of my game time at a rate of 40m/hour or more in 0.0 you know...other peoplemay have something to say about that
The thing is. You don't know how to make more than 40m/hour(exaggerated) in 0.0. Don't blame the rest of us for your lack knowledge.
edit:: And nobody wants to make isk 100% of their game time. Because its boring ****.
You now why mission is boring lack challenge.
So why not make them harer so you have to co op whit another player.
Make mission fun is posible to is only make the right story line for the mission, help other npc faction in difficulties in mission to so you need to have remote rep frendly npc.
Running missions with another player (which I have been doing to boost my corpies standing) isn't that fun either.
It really doesn't add anything to the process and somehow actually makes salvaging boringer.
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Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:47:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
I don't grind missions for money. I want to keep enjoying the game. Level 5's have a good amount of PvE risk and enjoyment. But I don't like to mix PvE and PvP, so when I regularly get scanned down and torn a new one by a roaming gang on the days my reflexes aren't fast enough to hit warp, it tends to put me off running them.
You seem to have taken me for a carebear because I want PvE to be harder. Much anger and little logic there is in you.
You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kaivos
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
I don't grind missions for money. I want to keep enjoying the game. Level 5's have a good amount of PvE risk and enjoyment. But I don't like to mix PvE and PvP, so when I regularly get scanned down and torn a new one by a roaming gang on the days my reflexes aren't fast enough to hit warp, it tends to put me off running them.
You seem to have taken me for a carebear because I want PvE to be harder. Much anger and little logic there is in you.
You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp.
You are barking up the wrong tree, m8. I do PvP. I love it. I also do PvE when there's no decent PvP to be had, so I want my PvE to be difficult and exciting. This game is about whatever the hell I want it to be about. Grow up. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.28 10:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kaivos
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
I don't grind missions for money. I want to keep enjoying the game. Level 5's have a good amount of PvE risk and enjoyment. But I don't like to mix PvE and PvP, so when I regularly get scanned down and torn a new one by a roaming gang on the days my reflexes aren't fast enough to hit warp, it tends to put me off running them.
You seem to have taken me for a carebear because I want PvE to be harder. Much anger and little logic there is in you.
You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp.
At some point, some PvE has to be done to generate replacement ISK & materials. There is no reason at all that it shouldn't be interesting, challenging and fun.
On the other hand, there is no reason that it should not be subject to competition. PvE and PvP are not seperate, and cannot be seperated.
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MILK Monk
Knights of the Silver Dawn Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.28 10:09:00 -
[52]
imo, missions in Low sec would be fine if they would not work so much against the one who take them. When you are in mission, all rats locked on you and pirate will warp in, you are very easy target.
If rats in low sec would have Sleeper-like-AI (not their tank&gank) they would lock on new target who just appeared in grid (hello pirate), they would kill his drones... Pirates would have to think twice before they risk it. Also it would make sense that rats in low sec are a bit more "inteligent" than high-sec ones...
but maybe I am wrong... it is long time since my last mission run... :) __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way. |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.28 10:10:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kaivos Stuff
I also checked out your battleclinic stats. One kill (Rupture), two losses (Iteron and a Hulk). I lol'd so hard. Where is your PvP now? WHERE IS IT?
I'd lol harder if you weren't an alt. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Nocturnal Avenger
x13
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Posted - 2009.05.28 10:11:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jensen Blayloc I have 30 million SP and it takes 5 friggin hours to do the big level 4s. If it were any harder, I couldn't do them AT ALL. Course, I didn't train for a domi and drones.. Personally, I am a little skeptical that a 12 mil SP dude could AFK level 4s, but who knows.
An arbalest cruise raven with t2 shield tank and t2 bcu can do almost any level 4. It can be done with less than 2M sp (learning excluded). Tested and tried btw.
- Carebear Pirate - |
Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 10:47:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 10:47:14
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Kaivos Stuff
I also checked out your battleclinic stats. One kill (Rupture), two losses (Iteron and a Hulk). I lol'd so hard. Where is your PvP now? WHERE IS IT?
I'd lol harder if you weren't an alt.
Oh, Mr. Detective.
Yeah as the name says "Kaivos" which means a mine in Finnish. This is a full industrial, mission runner character (38mill sp). So I should be arguing with you not against you? Right?
So when you are out of arguments you fail back to insults and lolling?
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.28 10:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kaivos Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 10:47:14
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Kaivos Stuff
I also checked out your battleclinic stats. One kill (Rupture), two losses (Iteron and a Hulk). I lol'd so hard. Where is your PvP now? WHERE IS IT?
I'd lol harder if you weren't an alt.
Oh, Mr. Detective.
Yeah as the name says "Kaivos" which means a mine in Finnish. This is a full industrial, mission runner character (38mill sp). So I should be arguing with you not against you? Right?
So when you are out of arguments you fail back to insults and lolling?
Alt or not, you still PvE in a PvP game. So when you tell me that I'm doing it wrong by PvEing, it makes you a fool who deserves to be laughed at and mocked.
Post with your PvP main, show me your daring exploits and then you might earn back some dignity. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.28 10:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: LiveWire364
Originally by: Discrodia How 'bout we just say **** it and 1/2 the value of the loot and salvage and payoff. That way we can mine in highsec and not feel like complete dweebs for making less than they do.
No, because then we'd lose the influx of materials currently needed to sustain the economy. The only way to fix the problem is by making the missions harder.
So you are basing that on what? The assumption that people who run missions will all keep running missions, and nobody will start mining again? WRONG! If L4 missions were halved in value, then minerals would go up in price making mining worth while. This would encourage more people to mine, restoring balance, albeit at a slightly higher price. I for one wouldn't mind paying a bit more for my ships as long as I knew that everyone else was paying more too.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 11:04:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Alt or not, you still PvE in a PvP game. So when you tell me that I'm doing it wrong by PvEing, it makes you a fool who deserves to be laughed at and mocked.
Post with your PvP main, show me your daring exploits and then you might earn back some dignity.
Go back and read my posts. Where I explain the purpose of missions on my point of view.
I don't see any lose of dignity. You are just trying to troll your way through this by making this personal.
But you still have to give me credit for killing that rupture with a ****ing industrial character =D I actually take bride in that.
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Kaivos
Pyydys
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Posted - 2009.05.28 11:07:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Karentaki
So you are basing that on what? The assumption that people who run missions will all keep running missions, and nobody will start mining again? WRONG! If L4 missions were halved in value, then minerals would go up in price making mining worth while. This would encourage more people to mine, restoring balance, albeit at a slightly higher price. I for one wouldn't mind paying a bit more for my ships as long as I knew that everyone else was paying more too.
So basically you are saying that you want to do more boring stuff and less fun stuff? Aka. More missions/mining and less pvp.
I dont share your point of view.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.05.28 11:12:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kaivos
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Alt or not, you still PvE in a PvP game. So when you tell me that I'm doing it wrong by PvEing, it makes you a fool who deserves to be laughed at and mocked.
Post with your PvP main, show me your daring exploits and then you might earn back some dignity.
Go back and read my posts. Where I explain the purpose of missions on my point of view.
I don't see any lose of dignity. You are just trying to troll your way through this by making this personal.
But you still have to give me credit for killing that rupture with a ****ing industrial character =D I actually take bride in that.
You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp.
And who made it personal first? You did, "numbnuts".
My killboard stats are pretty weak but they prove I PvP and enjoy it. You don't know anything about PvP. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
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