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Yamarn Kugisa
Magnetic Testing Group - Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.05.13 04:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is it worth it to get a full rack (4) on a Tengu? on EFT I get about a 50DPS improvement over T2's but I'm not sure if I can justify spending 400 Million, which I could almost buy a new Tengu with that. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
260
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Posted - 2012.05.13 04:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yamarn Kugisa wrote:Is it worth it to get a full rack (4) on a Tengu? on EFT I get about a 50DPS improvement over T2's but I'm not sure if I can justify spending 400 Million, which I could almost buy a new Tengu with that.
The 4th is almost never worth it for any module that suffers stacking penalties.
Definitely not worth it in this case. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
64
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Posted - 2012.05.13 04:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
every extra bit of dps is always worth it! |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
107
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Posted - 2012.05.13 04:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:every extra bit of dps is always worth it! except when it makes you shiny enough to get gibbed by two tornados.
@ topic: pimping the tengu is definitely worth it, at least three of the BCUs should be faction ones. also consider T2 rigor rigs. they saved my tengu once because i was able to lolpwn a tackler before the rest of his fleet warped on grid. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
69
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Posted - 2012.05.13 05:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:except when it makes you shiny enough to get gibbed by two tornados.
This.
T2 fit Tengu = not worth ganking because the average loot drop is less than the cost of the gank ships.
Faction-fit Tengu = lots of expensive loot in a nice low-HP package.
Now, calculate the increased ISK per hour from a faction fit and compare it to the number of hours you need to spend carebearing to replace one. I don't think you'll like the numbers. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
439
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Posted - 2012.05.13 05:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
I use 3 because of CPU concerns, not maximizing DPS. |
Windorian
Leeole's Legion
21
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Posted - 2012.05.13 05:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:I use 3 because of CPU concerns, not maximizing DPS.
This
I use almost all Navy BCU's, but it's for the MUCH lower CPU cost, makes fitting all that much easier (my current fit has 1.7 CPU left over). |
Caldari Citizen 786478786
132
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Posted - 2012.05.13 06:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
With 3 CN Ballistic Controls, adding a 4th will increase your DPS by ~45 DPS, while adding a T2 Ballistic Control will increase it by ~40 DPS. If you've already got 3, I don't see a 4th making you a bigger target, so is ~5 DPS worth the cost? Maybe. |
Kfwang
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.05.13 06:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
To echo what others said, I personally use 3, just because of fitting issues, even with Weapon Upgrades V, and Launcher Rigging IV, fitting is still extremely tight. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
262
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Posted - 2012.05.13 06:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:every extra bit of dps is always worth it!
The 4th adds 15DPS for 100mil
Thats stupid as hell. |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
222
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Posted - 2012.05.13 08:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Or slap a DCU on there and get a bunch more tank. Or if CPU is tight, keep the three BCUs on and slap the CPU electronic subsystem thingy on there and gain an extra midslot. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3748
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Posted - 2012.05.13 09:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:I use 3 because of CPU concerns, not maximizing DPS.
This. The extra DPS is a nice bonus. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
38
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Posted - 2012.05.13 09:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:every extra bit of dps is always worth it!
If your target has some way of regenerating HP, having 50 DPs more can make a huge difference.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
64
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Posted - 2012.05.13 16:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
tbh I use a tengu with t2 bcus and a lse as I'm super paranoid. glad to see a bunch of sensible posts! although I will miss the forum doctrine of MOAR DPS! |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
469
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Posted - 2012.05.13 21:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kfwang wrote:To echo what others said, I personally use 3, just because of fitting issues, even with Weapon Upgrades V, and Launcher Rigging IV, fitting is still extremely tight.
To be fair, at that point you can look at RF/Domination BCUs and save 60+ mil.
It all depends on the ship, really. On a Tengu going all CN/DG is pretty daft given how easy one is to gank. On a BS it makes a bit more sense. |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
89
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Posted - 2012.05.13 21:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
I use 3x CN BCUs on my Tengu. I put a DCU II in the last low slot to give my ship a little more EHP. I try to avoid unnecessary bling on any ship, but especially on one with a low-EHP active tank like the Tengu. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1419
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Posted - 2012.05.13 21:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't fly Tengus, but I usually use three damage mods, two of which are faction and 1 T2.
IIRC the higher bonusing mods stats get applied first, so the T2 will be the one stacking penalized the hardest.
Don't ask me for the exact maths (I'm sure Zhilia can come up with them), but I once calculated it and came to the conclusion that that's the most cost-effective as the dps increase over T2 for the third faction mod doesn't warrant the price tag in most cases.
Of course that's taylored to my playing style (i.e. always expecting to lose the ship, as I suck at spaceships). You know... morons. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
87
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Posted - 2012.05.14 01:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Two of anything is strategic. Three is overkill. Four is a waste of a slot. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
65
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Posted - 2012.05.14 01:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:Two of anything is strategic. Three is overkill. Four is a waste of a slot.
so what could i put in that 4th low slot that would be better? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
469
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Posted - 2012.05.14 01:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Don't ask me for the exact maths (I'm sure Zhilia can come up with them), but I once calculated it and came to the conclusion that that's the most cost-effective as the dps increase over T2 for the third faction mod doesn't warrant the price tag in most cases.
Have a crude spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhzdGHNl5YBQdGRuNWdDZE1kY1NkUkEwbU1tU2o4dUE
The difference between two CNs and one T2 and three CNs is 1.39% if you're curious. On 4 BCU setups, the difference between 4 CN and a 3/1 mix is .74% and the difference between 4 CN and a 2/2 mix is 2.12%.
Also worth noting: the difference is purely in volley damage. T2 and CN have the same RoF increase so your missiles are going to fire just as quickly with either mod, but the volleys will hit for more with CN. This matters in two ways. First, if you're consistently overvolleying targets, you'll see absolutely no increase from the spendy BCUs. Second, if that tiny extra ~1.5% damage pushes you over to kill in one less volley, you're saving yourself a full volley, which of course has a significant impact on your time to kill. |
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Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
56
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Posted - 2012.05.14 02:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Katja Faith wrote:Two of anything is strategic. Three is overkill. Four is a waste of a slot. so what could i put in that 4th low slot that would be better?
I will plug sensor backup array. See gurista here and there, helps with jams.
Adds somewhat of a degree of difficulty to finding you as well. If its jst a few sconds, its a few seconds you didn't have before when the probers are out. Seconds count when its time to gtfo sometimes.
Or if you must have more dps, plain ole t2 bcu. that way you are paying way less for your small damage boost vice the CN version. Eft should actually show you numbers not far off from the CN bcu with the 4th t2 iirc. |
Windorian
Leeole's Legion
21
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Posted - 2012.05.14 03:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'm a big fan of using a T2 power diagnostic system. It helps with cap regen, it helps with cap buffer (neut resistance),
It helps with Shield HP (and thus, EHP) and it helps with passive shield regen. While other mods might have a stronger impact on one area, i've yet to find a single mod that can benefit a shield tanking ship in as many ways as the power diagnostic system.
Wind |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
379
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Posted - 2012.05.14 08:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Expanded cargohold to carry moar missiles |
King Khaan
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.14 18:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
or a PDS to help with cap and shields.. |
GreenSeed
39
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Posted - 2012.05.14 21:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:Don't ask me for the exact maths (I'm sure Zhilia can come up with them), but I once calculated it and came to the conclusion that that's the most cost-effective as the dps increase over T2 for the third faction mod doesn't warrant the price tag in most cases. Have a crude spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhzdGHNl5YBQdGRuNWdDZE1kY1NkUkEwbU1tU2o4dUEThe difference between two CNs and one T2 and three CNs is 1.39% if you're curious. On 4 BCU setups, the difference between 4 CN and a 3/1 mix is .74% and the difference between 4 CN and a 2/2 mix is 2.12%. Also worth noting: the difference is purely in volley damage. T2 and CN have the same RoF increase so your missiles are going to fire just as quickly with either mod, but the volleys will hit for more with CN. This matters in two ways. First, if you're consistently overvolleying targets, you'll see absolutely no increase from the spendy BCUs. Second, if that tiny extra ~1.5% damage pushes you over to kill in one less volley, you're saving yourself a full volley, which of course has a significant impact on your time to kill.
this.
its all about volley, so check using T1 ammo with t2 BCUs and count the volleys, then swich to faction ammo and t2 BCUs, and finnaly faction ammo/faction BCUs. (t1 ammo and faction bcus will hardly make a difference) only after this decide wich is better, going from 5 volleys down to 4 is HUGE, and on most cases justifies using faction ammo.
im not completly familiar with your case as i use proyectiles on my mach, and its a LOT easier to see this in effect since the ammo has no travel time.
this also depends on how you run your missions and what ship you have...
and yeah, i second that about the PDUIIs they are well worth the training and will make a nice difference specially if you active tank and have rigs/midslots with cap modules, since all caprecharge modules affect one another a could free up a midslot or rig.
(pdus dont only give you cap recharge%, they also give you more cap wich in turn gives you more cap recharge %) |
Kalli Brixzat
31
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Posted - 2012.05.14 21:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Katja Faith wrote:Two of anything is strategic. Three is overkill. Four is a waste of a slot. so what could i put in that 4th low slot that would be better?
Damage Control II would be your best bet. A significant tank boost is ALWAYS useful. |
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad Chained Reactions
10
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Posted - 2012.05.15 02:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
i have 3 CN BCUs on my solo C3 wormhole and one 70m DG LSB. I hate carrying the CN BCUS around but they are currently the only real thing i can do to make the entire fit work and still maintain relevent cap stability to survive neuting and enough tank.
Most people use the CN BCUs due to cpu issues |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
80
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Posted - 2012.05.15 03:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kalli Brixzat wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Katja Faith wrote:Two of anything is strategic. Three is overkill. Four is a waste of a slot. so what could i put in that 4th low slot that would be better? Damage Control II would be your best bet. A significant tank boost is ALWAYS useful. DCII is a pretty minor boost tbh. at best will prevent a solo lol gank (but plugging the resist hole would do that too) beyond that if you have stuff worth ganking a DCII does very little to prevent them adding +1 ship to fleet.
Misanthra wrote:I will plug sensor backup array. See gurista here and there, helps with jams.
Adds somewhat of a degree of difficulty to finding you as well. If its jst a few sconds, its a few seconds you didn't have before when the probers are out. Seconds count when its time to gtfo sometimes.
Or if you must have more dps, plain ole t2 bcu. that way you are paying way less for your small damage boost vice the CN version. Eft should actually show you numbers not far off from the CN bcu with the 4th t2 iirc. sensor backup or signal amp are probably 2 of the better choices, but I'm a bit meh on it, tbh I don't remember getting jammed a lot, then again I tend to go for the blitz option just because guristas are annoying.
Windorian wrote:I'm a big fan of using a T2 power diagnostic system. It helps with cap regen, it helps with cap buffer (neut resistance),
It helps with Shield HP (and thus, EHP) and it helps with passive shield regen. While other mods might have a stronger impact on one area, i've yet to find a single mod that can benefit a shield tanking ship in as many ways as the power diagnostic system.
Wind
PDU has a ton of bonuses but they are all just so meh. overall imo it's just a weak mod. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
471
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Posted - 2012.05.15 05:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kalli Brixzat wrote:Damage Control II would be your best bet. A significant tank boost is ALWAYS useful.
Except when you already have plenty of tank? I mean, it's good for oh **** moments, but in missions... not so much.
Unimaginative Guy wrote:Most people use the CN BCUs due to cpu issues
Really? I mean, they're useful for that. But the major gain is in damage. I'd definitely think that's the main reason for their popularity.
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:DCII is a pretty minor boost tbh. at best will prevent a solo lol gank (but plugging the resist hole would do that too) beyond that if you have stuff worth ganking a DCII does very little to prevent them adding +1 ship to fleet. Misanthra wrote:I will plug sensor backup array. See gurista here and there, helps with jams.
Adds somewhat of a degree of difficulty to finding you as well. If its jst a few sconds, its a few seconds you didn't have before when the probers are out. Seconds count when its time to gtfo sometimes.
Or if you must have more dps, plain ole t2 bcu. that way you are paying way less for your small damage boost vice the CN version. Eft should actually show you numbers not far off from the CN bcu with the 4th t2 iirc. sensor backup or signal amp are probably 2 of the better choices, but I'm a bit meh on it, tbh I don't remember getting jammed a lot, then again I tend to go for the blitz option just because guristas are annoying. Windorian wrote:I'm a big fan of using a T2 power diagnostic system. It helps with cap regen, it helps with cap buffer (neut resistance),
It helps with Shield HP (and thus, EHP) and it helps with passive shield regen. While other mods might have a stronger impact on one area, i've yet to find a single mod that can benefit a shield tanking ship in as many ways as the power diagnostic system.
Wind PDU has a ton of bonuses but they are all just so meh. overall imo it's just a weak mod.
Pretty much agree with this. Especially on PDUs. They're great for semi-passive tanks hands down, but those are pretty rare these days. If you happen to need a small amount of one of the PDU's effects (like, say, grid) then it would be foolish to pass it up given the other bonuses, but that doesn't seem to come up all that often. |
Nadine Le'Slut
The-Four-HorseMen
3
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Posted - 2012.05.15 12:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
when doing npcs, i'm taking a 4th faction BCU everyday over any other mod (well ok maybe sometime a cargo expander). it's a 100mil mod, not a gistbooster ffs, hardly pushing you over the line where suddenly you're gankworthy.
that happenend when you strapped on that aforementioned gistbooster
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