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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
BIF Manager
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Posted - 2009.06.02 03:18:00 -
[1]
Not going to post many details but the basics are the following:
I am looking to replace a 55b credit line/loan with EBank (currently at 6.5%/mth) with cheaper capital. Am prepared to do payments monthly or fortnightly. Would be a bond and would target a rate of around 4%/mth max, preferably lower. I do trade of around 80b/mth in Jita 4/4 in relation to this operation.
No in game shares are offered, ledger based payments, enforced buy back at my discretion over the next 6-12 months as capital is available at 100% plus the next periods interest. Buybacks from holders honored at 100% with 2 weeks notice to a max 5b/mth.
Shar Tegral has API details and has had for months, able to watch trades and activities. Volume of trade can be disclosed/confirmed by him and he has access to figures stretching back months and months. I have no intention of removing Shar's access to this information.
Shar Tegral obviously is aware of who my main is and what operation this relates to, as does Athre. While I dont want those details public, they have my permission to disclose such should interest payments fall a full period in arrears. EBank obviously would also be aware of the above and are offered the same rights to disclosure.
Should there be enough interest from potential investors, some form of auction to determine the lowest possible rate I can raise capital for will be held, so all I'm after here is expressions of interest and an amount.
The expectation is that this would be a medium term bond offering, probably running the full 12 months. Capital can always be put to use. During the course of those 12 months, I will definetly retire some of the public debt (profits would completely retire public debt in 12 months, even after interest charges) but expect to carry public debt into the future for other operations.
(Note: posting from a clients, haven't had a chance to touch base with Shar/Athre/Ebank about this yet!) (Note: obviousy I'm not on eve to talk to, post questions/comments/concerns here)
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shuu shan
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Posted - 2009.06.02 03:30:00 -
[2]
I am potentially in for 8B subject to the rate and endorsements from the mentioned parties.
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James Tundra
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.02 03:36:00 -
[3]
Doesn't EBank only provide loans with collateral, I.E. Secured loans? Is there going to be any collateral on your 55b isk bond with zero business plan or addition details?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.06.02 04:06:00 -
[4]
Interesting to say the least. Could you authorize your current lendors to post here and confirm your current credit status.
After that we can discuss the public financing part. |
BIF Manager
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Posted - 2009.06.02 04:20:00 -
[5]
The existing facility with Ebank (actually, 2 facilities, a 40b+ loan @ 6%, and a 10b line of credit account at 6.5%) are not secured by assets, merely my mains reputation for forthright and honest dealings in the past.
Ebank have my permission to confirm the above statements, without disclosing my main or the operation this relates to.
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BIF Manager
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Posted - 2009.06.02 04:31:00 -
[6]
Sorry, I felt I needed to add to my initial statement to clarify a point and ensure some security on the offering.
The facilities with EBANK are in place and meet my needs. They would/could continue to meet my needs moving forward and the relationship I have with EBANK is good. These existing facilities are still available for me to use and are drawn down to a large extent. There have been numerous threads lately, however, that indicate there is an excess of investment ISK sitting around idle.
Its my contention that this investment ISK would probably be available to me for a rate that is less than that offered by EBANK, leading to higher returns than EBANK's 1.5% or 3% accounts for investors, and less interest for me than the existing 6%/6.5% rate. Striking a middle ground between the 2 and decreasing my cost of capital is the objective.
I dont need a full subscription for 55b. Every 1b I secure at 4% is a saving of around 20m/mth (depending on rates and which facilities I retire), so over the full 50b+ there are significant savings to be achieved.
Further, i am happy for these funds to be sent to a third party, used only for the purpose of retiring existing EBANK facilities, rather than have them wired to me directly for what could be nefarious purposes. Alternatively, we could set something up with EBANK to allow these funds to be paid to a restricted account, if their systems allow for such. This would ensure that my access to funds is limited to the amount that EBANK currently provide unsecured.
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YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.02 04:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: YunFu Yan on 02/06/2009 04:54:25
Originally by: BIF Manager The existing facility with Ebank (actually, 2 facilities, a 40b+ loan @ 6%, and a 10b line of credit account at 6.5%) are not secured by assets, merely my mains reputation for forthright and honest dealings in the past.
Not meaning to highjack this thread but can't help to notice that some seem more equal to Ricdic than others. He told me EBank doesn't do more than 5bil ever when I asked him for 15.
That said, write me down for 3-5bil depending on the returns. ------------------------------------------------- Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
BIF Manager
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Posted - 2009.06.02 04:55:00 -
[8]
To be fair, the existing facilities are old and have been in place for quite a while. But what you may/may not negotiate with Ebank or their representatives in no way limits what I may negotiate with them.
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YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.02 05:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: BIF Manager ...what you may/may not negotiate with Ebank or their representatives in no way limits what I may negotiate with them.
In short: Some are more equal than others. Ah well, I'll do my thing either way.
Edited my above post in case you didn't notice. You kinda answered while I was doing that. ------------------------------------------------- Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.06.02 06:43:00 -
[10]
Please have someone from EBANK confirm what your lending facilities/credit line are.
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Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.06.02 06:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: YunFu Yan Not meaning to highjack this thread but can't help to notice that some seem more equal to Ricdic than others. He told me EBank doesn't do more than 5bil ever when I asked him for 15.
EBANK's loan policies are inconsistent. Supposedly, all loans are fully collateralized and are limited to small amounts. As counterexamples, my loan has zero collateral even though I offered it, and the OP has a large and uncollateralized loan account.
If an EBANK representative accepts the investor capital and directly deposits it into your loan account, there is still the question of payments and what happens in the event of a default (the collateral question).
Packtu'sa Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp [NCIC] |
BIF Manager
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Posted - 2009.06.02 07:37:00 -
[12]
Quote: Please have someone from EBANK confirm what your lending facilities/credit line are.
I'm not in game, but hopefully someone from Ebank (Ricdic, Athre, SentryRaven) will see the thread, add 1+1 together to work out who my main is who has the facilities with ebank and will post here to confirm. Until I can get in game and harass some of these people directly however, you'll have to wait on that confirmation. I've already given approval upthread for this confirmation to be provided, without revealing the main.
Quote: If an EBANK representative accepts the investor capital and directly deposits it into your loan account, there is still the question of payments and what happens in the event of a default (the collateral question).
Ebank would have no involvement with the payments. They will be wired direct from a corporate wallet to holders each "due period". The offer to have a special ebank account was to ensure that funds acquired this way are ONLY USED to pay down existing debt levels, rather than used to incur new debt levels. TBH, I dont think most people will need that, but the offer is on the table anyway for additional security. There is no collateral, so that doesn't enter the equation.
In no way would Ebank be responsible for any default or non-payment of investor capital, should I proceed to list an offering.
*** Reservations here, pending disclosure from the stated parties, will be honored. Obviously, the less people involved, the better for me. The more isk I can raise, the better for me. Whether I proceed with an offer will be based on what sort of feedback I get after a few days with this thread. ***
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.06.02 08:59:00 -
[13]
Exactly why can't you disclose your main?
FREE! jumpclone service - Now 416 locations! |
BIF Manager
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Posted - 2009.06.02 09:09:00 -
[14]
There are a number of reasons I dont want to disclose my main to the general public. This is not at all uncommon for people to desire that to be kept secret and I've already given knowledge of people who know who that is and what this primary operation does, which means whether you know my main or not, my main's "reputation" is definetly on the line with this, to be disclosed in the case of default.
There really isn't much more I can see that needs to be discussed until I can harass the appropriate people to post confirmation here. :)
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HawkBlade
Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.06.02 09:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: BIF Manager Shar Tegral obviously is aware of who my main is and what operation this relates to, as does Athre.
I will confirm access to API records. I used to provide accounting services to BIF Manager for reporting to his investors. Back in March the need for my services was removed and subsequently I discontinued monitoring of BIF Manager's activities. However I did do an update (BIF was being monitored via Ray's Sexy) a few minutes ago. Suffice to say that he is still primarily engaged in the same activities as he was back then. The copious activity in such a short time corresponds to long term activity and a commitment to long term "win". (I will not be divulging/discussing BIF's actual activities.) I'm nominally in for 10 billion. If available, I'll have to talk to a few people, I might increase this to about 25 billion stake. PS: This won't be the first eBank loan I've refinanced so I totally understand.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.06.02 09:59:00 -
[16]
we will take 5 billion @ 4% let me know if your interested.
Quote:
"Lecherito on Market Discussion: Though I have to go down on the record as saying that I'm convinced the majority of the MD community is ******ed" |
BIF Manager
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Posted - 2009.06.02 10:38:00 -
[17]
Thanks for the confirmation of API access and notification of activity. Also the vote of confidence in a chunk of the pie. Now just Ebank to show up. :)
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CrazyArsed Monkey
Minmatar Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2009.06.02 12:13:00 -
[18]
I am happy to invest 5bill @ 4% and am happy with monthly payments.
CAM
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Athre
Minmatar The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:05:00 -
[19]
Confirming with Shar I know who BIF is and I myself am willing to go in for 4 b.
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Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: BIF Manager Shar Tegral obviously is aware of who my main is and what operation this relates to, as does Athre. While I dont want those details public, they have my permission to disclose such should interest payments fall a full period in arrears. EBank obviously would also be aware of the above and are offered the same rights to disclosure.
I feel that your main's name should be released if you do decide to go ahead with this offering, and maybe a brief/general idea of your business. Afterall, this information is all that is required to receive 55 billion at 6.5%, and now you want the same at a lower rate. If your name is that respected then it should be no problem to probably achieve a rate lower than D/EBANK's savings or even deposit rates.
Originally by: BIF Manager Should there be enough interest from potential investors, some form of auction to determine the lowest possible rate I can raise capital for will be held, so all I'm after here is expressions of interest and an amount.
Even with what I said above, I would probably be interested in investing up to a billion or so, maybe more. Yes, my middle name is hypocrite . Rate dependent on auction/personal choice. -- --- --
DesuSigs |
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:18:00 -
[21]
Only question I have, is that have discussions with Ebank to refinance this at a lower rate (perhaps not nearly as low as 4) been rejected at all? |
EBANK Athre
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:19:00 -
[22]
EBANK Confirmation
I show two 'loans' as active.
The first loan started as 40b regular loan which was taken out by a former business partner of BIF and when that partner left BIF took over the loan. 43B remain.
A 10B personal loan on a revolving credit type account was taken out directly by BIF's main.
-43,257,226,826.94 @ 6% -05,413,844,022.51 @ 6.5%
Total owed EBANK 48,671,070,849.45 Billion ISK
Please note a prior loan of 3.8B @ 8% is fully paid off
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Sugar Jugs
Juggalicious
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Posted - 2009.06.02 13:54:00 -
[23]
Would be willing to go dutch auction with a bit over 10b.
Dealt with BIF in the past, hoping to do so again. :)
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Beovylf
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.02 14:43:00 -
[24]
I would be interested in this for 1B.
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glas mir
Reaction Scientific
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Posted - 2009.06.02 14:44:00 -
[25]
I am not interested without you disclosing your main. But it appears others will fill this bond, or they know your main as in shar's case.
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Kalrand
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Posted - 2009.06.02 14:48:00 -
[26]
So not even a week after Ricdic trolled the MD forums with a fake IPO, you people are going to give 60 billion isk to an alt who refueses to divulge their main, based on ebank saying they are super duper credit worthy, who claims to have a loan way larger than everyone's ebank experience here, which also happens to be uncollateralized, which is also not the normal ebank experience here.
Lets say for a second all that is true; Someone who's main business appears (to me) to be Jita trading will be holding on to ~120 billion isk as soon as this loan is funded until they pay off ebank.
Wow. |
Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.06.02 14:59:00 -
[27]
I find this whole thing a bit confusing and untrustworthy.
It seems that BIF Manager's alt did not secure the original loan. Rather, a business partner secured the loan and BIF Manager took over the loan.
For sums this large I can only presume that either a titan BPO or a t2 BPO is involved, and those can easily be locked down as collateral.
The fact that someone else in the past was given a 40 bil+ unsecured doesn't mean that this person, now, should be given 40 bil+ unsecured. |
BIF Manager
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Posted - 2009.06.02 15:15:00 -
[28]
Quote: I feel that your main's name should be released if you do decide to go ahead with this offering, and maybe a brief/general idea of your business. Afterall, this information is all that is required to receive 55 billion at 6.5%, and now you want the same at a lower rate. If your name is that respected then it should be no problem to probably achieve a rate lower than D/EBANK's savings or even deposit rates.
My main isn't that respected or widely known at all, its just I have steadily grown business with EBank, other banks and individuals and have demonstrated repeatedly that I'm honorable and will meet my commitments. As what I am going to offer (based on responses here) will be a bond, with a fixed repayment, no details of what the funds are used for will be provided, nor will my main be disclosed unless under the conditions above.
Quote: Only question I have, is that have discussions with Ebank to refinance this at a lower rate (perhaps not nearly as low as 4) been rejected at all?
Good question! No they haven't, I haven't asked them. Shaving 1% off even 50b is okay, but if I'm going to go to that effort to refinance this operation, why not aim for 2% or a touch lower? If Ebank want to retain the business, they can always make me an offer I'll listen to. I dont see that they are hard up for business however, and our markets here in MD have excess capital.
Originally by: Sugar Jugs Dealt with BIF in the past, hoping to do so again. :)
Ha! Forgot you'd easily link us together as well. Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Originally by: Ebank Athre -43,257,226,826.94 @ 6% -05,413,844,022.51 @ 6.5%
Total owed EBANK 48,671,070,849.45 Billion ISK
Hmm, I should have logged onto EBank to check these figures myself. I thought it was more than that! Okay, so the offer when framed will be limited to 40b, not 55b, and I'll probably retain the 10b line of credit, as its remarkably flexible, works well and only costs me money when I draw it down.
I'll use this reservation list to conduct some form of auction for the rate, I'll give that some thought and post details this weekend. Given the interest/willingness of people, it'll be a closed auction for those who post interest here only.
Reservation Lists (potential 50-65b): Shuu Shan - 8b YunFu Yan - 3-5b Hawkblade - 10-25b Ji Sama - 5b CrazyAssed Monkey - 5b (AWESOME name!) Athre - 4b Marcus Baltar - 1b Sugar Jugs - 10b
Just to restate: - there will be 40b of bonds (debt financing) used to retire 40b of Ebank debt. - there will be a closed auction of some kind to determine just how low I can secure these funds at. (thoughts MD?) - 12 month duration (limited extensions may/may not be available) - enforced buybacks at 100% + interest for next period during course of bond - holder-requested buybacks at 100% of value, to a max per month of 5b (first in, first served, subject to up to 2 weeks delay) - post amount here as reservation to participate in closed auction.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.06.02 15:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: BIF Manager
Good question! No they haven't, I haven't asked them. Shaving 1% off even 50b is okay, but if I'm going to go to that effort to refinance this operation, why not aim for 2% or a touch lower? If Ebank want to retain the business, they can always make me an offer I'll listen to. I dont see that they are hard up for business however, and our markets here in MD have excess capital.
What's weird is that Ebank has an investment wing. So technically speaking they wouldn't even really have to offer a refinance. Just move it over in their books really. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.06.02 15:27:00 -
[30]
Ohh and I forgot my last question. I assume that the savings this refinanced debt earns will be set aside to either
Grow existing operations?
Pay down existing debt?
if you go with the latter, what timeline are looking at for payback? |
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