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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.06.05 15:35:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Irida Mershkov I don't think active tanks need a boost, if a shield booster counts as active tank. It does right? I had this shield boosting Maelstrom ****ing me off to no end boosting back up to 20-30% every couple of seconds, gave the son of a ***** time to redock.
Learn to use a neut. They destroy active shield tankers. They are the reason active tanks are mostly worthless in PVP.
Doesn't work too well when you're in a Stealth Bomber.
Why on earth would they consider the match up against stealth bombers? SBs are supposed to have a hard time and compensate with tactics and numbers.
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Neuronai
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Posted - 2009.06.05 15:37:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov I don't think active tanks need a boost, if a shield booster counts as active tank. It does right? I had this shield boosting Maelstrom ****ing me off to no end boosting back up to 20-30% every couple of seconds, gave the son of a ***** time to redock.
So he managed to tank for 30 seconds? How long do you think it would take for you to take out 36k armour with 70%+ resists (standard armour buffered BS) in the same situation? I'm betting a lot longer. |
Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity YARRR and CO
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Posted - 2009.06.05 16:10:00 -
[33]
boosting rep amounts of active tanks would throw off balance in any 1v1 (or a small BS group) fights. What could be done is lower cap usage so its actually possible to do things like run away with your mwd while dual-repping etc. It will still get hurt bad by neuts so that balance wont be too screwed. |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.06.05 16:12:00 -
[34]
Quicker kills = less chance for the opposition to get organized and return the favor.
If you buff HP - you will BUFF blobs.
If you want active repping in pvp go with remote reps. |
Morikai Acler
Caldari Demon Theory Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.06.05 16:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Vyllana Easy solution is to bring buffer tanking back down a bit. Battleships fitting 3x 1600mm plates and such is just going too far, cruisers/battlecruisers fitting LSEs or 1600mm plates is broken too. Why do the largest hp buff mods even fit on cruisers/BCs? Why are the fitting costs of buffer tanking modules so much lower than the fitting costs of active tanking modules? Up the fitting reqs on plates and shield extenders so that BSs can only fit 1-2 of the biggest ones before having to make sacrifices and so that cruisers/BCs can only fit smaller variants, not LSEs or 1600s.
Most people who're fitting 1600's and LSE aren't using any kind of active repping outside of RR gangs. Even in RR you won't likely see more than 1 or 2 fitted on a ship, due to PG and cpu reqs on the remote tanking mods. And the only reason people use them in reality is to make sure their ship can last long enough to try and do something useful.
And a reply to someone else, outside of RR gangs, you'll see shield buffer bs's in long range fleets as well, at least with Rokhs, and the rare ravens.
Originally by: Enden Assulu I don't think they are unbalanced. I think they are fine, the whole 1600mm plate on cruisers makes them interesting they can't fit more than one with out gimping the set-up.
And this is exactly true here, you can't fit a 1600mm plate on most cruisers without throwing your dps out the window, since you aren't going to have enough grid to fit class size guns. Especially if your trying to fit MWD and other needed pvp mods. |
Dodgy Past
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Posted - 2009.06.05 17:27:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 05/06/2009 17:28:38
Originally by: Morel Nova boosting rep amounts of active tanks would throw off balance in any 1v1 (or a small BS group) fights. What could be done is lower cap usage so its actually possible to do things like run away with your mwd while dual-repping etc. It will still get hurt bad by neuts so that balance wont be too screwed.
This would be a very nice way to provide a buff to active tank. Apart from anything else fitting a second rep eats into your PG and starts limiting your fit anyway.
If using dual reps was feasible beyond the piddly amount of time it takes to consume a cargo hold full of boosters going solo would be a lot more fun. When you look at active armour tank fits you pretty much have to waste every rig and mid slot to get reasonable stability with just one rep. |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.06.05 22:26:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Irida Mershkov I don't think active tanks need a boost, if a shield booster counts as active tank. It does right? I had this shield boosting Maelstrom ****ing me off to no end boosting back up to 20-30% every couple of seconds, gave the son of a ***** time to redock.
Learn to use a neut. They destroy active shield tankers. They are the reason active tanks are mostly worthless in PVP.
Doesn't work too well when you're in a Stealth Bomber.
Why on earth would they consider the match up against stealth bombers? SBs are supposed to have a hard time and compensate with tactics and numbers.
I'm not saying they should, i'm saying that I don't think active tanking needs a buff because it is pretty damn effective at what it does. With three of us whaling on this ***** he kept going, it was crazy. Had him into 40% hull, but the shields just kept coming back and back. My point was that I couldn't neut in a stealth bomber, yes neuts are effective against them, crippling certainly so, but I couldn't really neut them in a bomber now, could I?
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Merdorn
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Posted - 2009.06.05 22:45:00 -
[38]
Personally, Active tanking could use a slight tweak.
Genrally a ship with a active tank bennie on it is at a disadvantage to a ship without. becouse the ship without one tends to have 2 DPS related bennies. So one would have to think that the Tanking Bennie is supposed to equal out with the DPS bennie. Currently this does not happon.
But on a more genral note armor and shield did nto keep pace with each other. It looks as the last HP buff only really hit the armor mods and not the shield. There are 4 shield extenders to 6 classes of armor plates
50mm plate = micro shields (same power, shield uses almost 3 times the CPU) 100mm plate = small shield (plate double the power, shield slightly more then double the CPU) 200mm plate = ..... none 400mm Plate = Med shield (4 35vs31 more power for plate, 11 more cpu for the shield 34vs23) 800mm Plate = Large shield (71% more power on plate, 60% more CPU on shield) 1600mm Plate = .... nothing
just a note the % of the armor and shield extender rigs are the same.
So there is 2 gaps. if you think about it the first 2 are your frigete fittings, the 3rd would be your heavy frigete/Dessy/Light cruiser fittings, the 4th would be the cruiser fitting, the 5th would be your Heavy cruiser/Battlecruiserr Fittings, with the 6th being your Battle ship fittings.
We are missing as a whole Cap ship class fittings (both equally) and on the shield side the heavy frigete/dessy/Light cruiser and the BB class fittings are gone. Now most people would not miss the 3rd class to much but the top end shield is one of the reason (not the only but one) battleships are armor buffered and not shield. 20% of 4.2k is always more then 20% of 2.6k.
Now on Buffer VS active side we can look past the whole armor shield argument right now. we are looking at native reps on the ship. When they incressed the amounts of HP they buffed one side of the house, But that did not help at all the other side. There are 2 ways to bring the active side back up to snuff:
Incress the amount repaired each cycle or Decress cycle time
In the secound case the cap on almost all ships would die just that much quicker and active tankink would barly make a dent with nuets as you would be burning cap very quickly. The first case would be the better option. If the HP was buffed by 25% then I say incress rep amounts on local reps by 25%. Shield reps are still cap burners and armor reps are still slow burners nothing changes on that front, but ships with tanking bonus get a formitable tank like there bonus imply to match up with the damage of the ships with damage bonus.
I guess it comes down to wether you like Defence or Offence having the uperhand or if you are looking for a even playing field where nither is clearly outright. DPS ships should be very good at that, tank ships very good at that. if that means one can not break the tank of the other in a one on one slug feast ...... great thats what a tanking ship was MENT to do, take damage.
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Merdorn
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Posted - 2009.06.05 22:53:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Merdorn on 05/06/2009 22:53:28
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Why on earth would they consider the match up against stealth bombers? SBs are supposed to have a hard time and compensate with tactics and numbers.
I'm not saying they should, i'm saying that I don't think active tanking needs a buff because it is pretty damn effective at what it does. With three of us whaling on this ***** he kept going, it was crazy. Had him into 40% hull, but the shields just kept coming back and back. My point was that I couldn't neut in a stealth bomber, yes neuts are effective against them, crippling certainly so, but I couldn't really neut them in a bomber now, could I?
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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies
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Posted - 2009.06.06 01:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Beverly Sparks Yes, it needs a buffing.
Do not nerf Plates. For larger fleet engagements the speed at which you die is quite satisfactory. Plus what do you want, to nerf plates below DD levels?
Buff active tanking a little and call it a day. At best make a 1600mm and a repper be a real option when looking at facing a 5-10 man gang. For fleet engagements buffer is always going to be preferable.
You hit the spot RIGHT THERE.
Current 'fleet' engagement battleships HAVE to be DD proof.. seeing as there are so many titans floating around nowadays and everybody is napped with everybody else and their unborn offspring there are atleast 1 or 2 titans on standby for any fight involving 100+ ships.
As sad as it is true, this just happens to be the case nowadays.
Local tank (repper) still works for (long term) roaming gangs though because when you're in hostile space you can't dock up to rep your damage so a buffer tank doesn't last longer than 1 or 2 engagements anyway __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2009.06.06 04:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Local tank (repper) still works for (long term) roaming gangs though because when you're in hostile space you can't dock up to rep your damage so a buffer tank doesn't last longer than 1 or 2 engagements anyway
Local repper isn't really needed in those situations, just have a couple ships throw remote armor reps (offlined if necessary) in their utility highs. |
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