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Bangbroo
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Posted - 2009.06.05 08:33:00 -
[1]
Reading, reading, reading, learning, learning.
The MD forums help a lot if you want to get into trading. But not enough for me. Have been reading for about a week now. Putting buy and sell orders up made my first cash AND my very first losses. My feeling says I am doing something very wrong. Heres my tactic. I am in a mission hub and im putting buy orders up for meta 4 items. And hope to sell them with profit. Now the problem is it doesnt goes fast. I have been reading about the ROI and ROA. Return on Interest and Assets and that you make most of that if something buys fast and sells fast. Rather buy and sell small prices and sell em quick then wait for that 5 bil thing to sell. I just don't seem to find those items/things? I've had my buy order up for 20 Arbalest Standard Missile Launchers. A week later (read now) its at 15. I modify it everytime keep track of market. And more then 160 ppl are in local.
What am I doing wrong?
How to do proper research I do not know. I know the market is a very private and sensitive part of eve people dont tend to give away their secrets. I do not ask for that. I just hope someone is there that is willing to help me with this isssue.
Ive read the stickies and learned al lot from it. Its time to stand on my own feet but I just feel that Aint gonna last long. Please contact me ingame by evemail if your willing to help. Thanks |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.06.05 09:27:00 -
[2]
Quote:
My feeling says I am doing something very wrong. Heres my tactic. I am in a mission hub and im putting buy orders up for meta 4 items.
See? You answered yourself.
Don't start headbutting the big boys when you are still smelling of milk.
Don't do the top IRL and in game trader mistake: being GREEDY and NOW.
Quote:
Ive read the stickies and learned al lot from it
The problem is that theory only provides you with the tools to work. How to put those tools at good use is what is not written and this because everyone does it in a different way.
Quote:
Its time to stand on my own feet but I just feel that Aint gonna last long.
You will need a very good smashing on your face before you get proficient. This is what weeds off wannabes who read how trading is the easy way to ISK. Those who remain, those who persevere, those who believe in their method and consistently apply it, those survive.
BTW this is just how successful RL secondary market financial securities do. And it's not surprising how 95% of the RL finance traders fail, 3% survive and only 1% grow to huge success.
If you check the latest CCP financial report you'll see some enligthening data about the rich vs poor ratio in EvE.
Finally, don't wait for emails.
Subscribe to scc-lounge and help will come to you. |
No Mahdss
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Posted - 2009.06.05 10:48:00 -
[3]
I will try and respond.
Although you think some things should happen in trading - many times you will find they will not work as you expect.
One of the first things you would have picked up - is to know your region.
Assuming you have done your homework and the stats show this item has a good turnover satisfying both buyers and sellers - you need to find the place where that is happening.
Maybe consider moving them to a market hub system or undercutting a lot -
If you do not want to move stuff around I would suggest you buy and sell at the market hub rather than mission hub. |
Beatrice Dalle
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Posted - 2009.06.05 11:24:00 -
[4]
dont buy 20, buy two, sell those, do that for another 20 items, figure out what works, what you didnt need to adjust every two minutes, what sold at a good margin - starting out with region buy orders and moving stuff around is a good way to get stuff a bit cheaper that most people wont bother with because it demands effort for quiestionable returns.... but some stuff is worth moving like that
Into my second week and painfully close to doubling my intitial ISK, still making mistakes and where required have sold inventory back to sell orders when I was either gamed or just made a bad call, there is no magic formula - it's persistence and not getting fixated on stuff you assume will be good ISK, look for the less obvious trades or just be prepared to do the .01 haggling thing with some persistance (got my first trade window today, so I must be looking like a bot :) )
thats my own newbie advice, so treat it as such.
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Bangbroo
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Posted - 2009.06.05 11:54:00 -
[5]
Thanks for the tipss. I think im just getting to much ahead of myself thats not a good thing.
I'll just start off small etc. Also joined the scc-lounge channel and got help and some answers right away (thanks for the tip mate!)
Keep em coming.
I made my buy orders smaller and flew around a bit picking things up. Already made profit! *YAY* It's not much but its a start.
So going to market hubs will be a better option? Or atleast moving the stuff I buy in a mission hub to a market hub? |
Dzil
Caldari Waffles Reloaded
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Posted - 2009.06.05 14:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bangbroo Reading, reading, reading, learning, learning.
I've had my buy order up for 20 Arbalest Standard Missile Launchers. A week later (read now) its at 15. What am I doing wrong?
Nothing, if you learned from it. You were able to buy 5 during a week. Now look at the market history graph. See how many traded during that week. Your 5 is some percentage of that. Keep this in mind.
In ANY item, there are two direct impacts to your profit: margin, and volume. Margin is the space between where you buy and sell the item, less any taxes/fees. In a stable market, the difference between the highest buy and the lowest sell. But some markets shift up and down, or undergo manipulation where a player just buys them all and relists higher.
Volume is the number traded per day. You'll rarely get 100% of this, so it's important to do exactly what you did and get a feel for what % of the daily volume you see can be harnessed by your particular station and playtime.
Your next steps should be as follows:
Figure out if you can also sell 5 launchers/week in your area of operations, if not the number you can sell is going to be your limit on volume. Multiply that by the margin you can make. If the profit/week is acceptible to you, keep doing it but adjust your buy order to be more in line with the volume you are getting. IE you have 4 weeks worth of capital tied up in a buy order of 20, if volume stays flat. If not, liquidate and move on to another module. The best way to get ideas on meta 4s, from my experience, was to simply run or loot a level 4 mission and view the market details on everything that drops. If you can't run l4s yet, see if someone that isn't looting their missions would let you tag along. Or, go the dark side, strap on a probe, and go ninja looting
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Ikserak tai
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Posted - 2009.06.05 16:28:00 -
[7]
You should be in Caldari space, as that is where those launchers may drop from pirate loot primarily Guristas, Mercs, or EOM. It is also where there is a market for them.
Arbalest Standard Launchers are frig modules, and maybe still wet-behind-the-ears noob cruiser modules. They fire light missiles, primarily for Level I and Level II mission use.
The real money is in Heavy Missile Launchers, and most missile boat owners want to get to that level as soon as possible. Arby heavies are in the 20M Isk range.
So your Arby Standard Launchers are going to move slow in any event.
YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED. |
Lord Zarcam
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.06.05 23:33:00 -
[8]
You have a good idea of how the theory works, now you need to learn a way to apply it that suites your play style. There are so many different ways to trade, each in their own right.
Something else to look at is buy "junk" modules and reprocessing them, then selling the materials. Easy way to build a cash reserve to do bigger things.
In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream! |
ingenting
20th Legion Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2009.06.06 01:00:00 -
[9]
go to region A, check prices. go to region B, do same.
above is research.
buy item A in region A sell item A in region B
now you're trading, and hopefully making isk. |
Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.06.06 01:04:00 -
[10]
Unless you want to lose both your Eve and Real life on babysitting the markets...
... the real answer is to do what others won't.
For example you don't want to stay 23/7 in 4-4 buying and selling Antimatter Charge S, or Wrath Cruise Missiles... it will drive you crazy, as hundreds of no-lifers are already doing it.
Same for implants or other typical stuff.
Instead, try to find an unique, rare item that near to no one is trading with. Also instead of being on Jita all the time, try other systems. There are 5k of them, no need to stay in 0.01 hell.
Trick #1: the more expensive an item is, the less noobs will compite with you
Trick #2: the longer or more dangerous your routes are, the less carebears will compite with you
Trick #3: the more weird your stuff is, the bigger margins you will get. |
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Packs Merlau
Killer Carebears
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Posted - 2009.06.06 03:35:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Packs Merlau on 06/06/2009 03:40:28 Edited by: Packs Merlau on 06/06/2009 03:39:47 When trading these kinds of items, bear in mind that you won't catch them all. A lot of your money is going to be tied up into buy orders that only yield results once in a while, and that's ok, it's part of the lottery. You never know when that poor soul is going to sell his Arbalest launcher to you at half price instead of putting it up at a decent price. He might sell it five minutes before you update your orders, and the prize goes to the other guy. But as long as you cast a wide net, with tons of buy orders, you will catch fish, though not all the fish.
Edit, profanity filter bypass
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Bangbroo
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Posted - 2009.06.06 10:42:00 -
[12]
Wow so much help thanks alot!
Already made my first 20 mil profit! But also made some losses again. Keep em coming those tips are good today im going to roam some regions and check several markets!
Cheers guys! |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.06.06 12:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bangbroo Wow so much help thanks alot!
Already made my first 20 mil profit! But also made some losses again. Keep em coming those tips are good today im going to roam some regions and check several markets!
Cheers guys!
As I say in my "Trade System" (stock exchange and Forex) thread on another web site, you are not going to earn a Porsche within the first year. You'll lose, and lose often. The trader (IRL in the post but I think applies in EvE too) who prepares a solid loss survival plan is the one who will prosper in few years. Not the one "guessing right" all the time. Those will be bright novas shining for some months and then go in ruin. |
Bangbroo
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Posted - 2009.06.06 12:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
As I say in my "Trade System" (stock exchange and Forex) thread on another web site, you are not going to earn a Porsche within the first year. You'll lose, and lose often. The trader (IRL in the post but I think applies in EvE too) who prepares a solid loss survival plan is the one who will prosper in few years. Not the one "guessing right" all the time. Those will be bright novas shining for some months and then go in ruin.
I am prepared for that, I knew I wasn't going to hit the jackpot immediatly and I knew to learn something you gotta take chances oppurtunities but also risks. I took a risk, and I lost. But I only lost ISK I gained some knowledge. Thats also worth something.
I'll just keep going, talk alot in scc-lounge cause people are willing to help me a hand with questions etc. |
Lord Zarcam
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.06.06 18:05:00 -
[15]
Taking "smart" risks is the way to make money, foolish risks will usually cost you. Think smart and you will grow your wallet!
I started out many months ago selling extra parts I needed for my ships. If I needed an armor plate for my frig, I bought 2 and sold one for a profit. Then I would buy 4 or 5 and sell the others. But you have to learn where to buy to be able to do this. I started with less then 200,000 isk's to invest and now I'm turning over 4 to 6 billion a month and still putting most of my profits back into more inventory and better profit margins.
Take your time, do your research, and play smart. It's not hard to make good money in this game! Now if it was this easy to do so in real life!!!! |
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