Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Pilk
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.06 12:37:00 -
[1]
I've posted a list of reasons over at EVElopedia as to why I believe the project is largely unused, and thoughts on how to reverse the suckage. Your comments would be appreciated, either in this thread or over at the Wiki.
EVElopedia: The SysOp Jungle
Regards, --P |
Treelox
Amarr Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.06.06 13:08:00 -
[2]
eve has a wiki??
Ohh you mean that mess they call the Evelopedia. Cause it fails to meet any of the most basic definitions of what a wiki really is.
Originally by: "as defined on dictionary.com wi+ki (wĭk'ē) n. pl. wi+kis A collaborative website whose content can be edited by anyone who has access to it.
I fail to see Evelopedia being very collaborative, of anyone who accesses it being able to edit it.
...oooohhhhh wait, exactly your point Pilk
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Sirius Snape
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Posted - 2009.06.06 13:36:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Pilk I've posted a list of reasons over at EVElopedia as to why I believe the project is largely unused, and thoughts on how to reverse the suckage. Your comments would be appreciated, either in this thread or over at the Wiki.
EVElopedia: The SysOp Jungle
Regards, --P
Good article, friend.
Hopefully someone will take it on board |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.06.06 14:26:00 -
[4]
Well exactly, what's the point of evelopedia?
GM's and ISD's are the only ones that seem to be able to edit it.
A playerbase wiki would be 100 times better.
I stopped using it after when I went to it for a couple of answers on two seperate occasions and found it's guides to be too dumbed down to offer the information that I required. |
Gieron
Two toons mining
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Posted - 2009.06.06 15:23:00 -
[5]
I wholly agree with this.
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.06.06 17:32:00 -
[6]
^^^ what he said ----------------------
My Blog |
Hel O'Ween
Academy of Truth
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Posted - 2009.06.07 01:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
GM's and ISD's are the only ones that seem to be able to edit it.
Uh, what? Every player can edit it. Just log in (at the top of the page) like you log into this forum.
That said, I agree it could be improved. For example the EVE theme doesn't do the Wiki good. It's harder to read than necessary. The simple black on white of Wikipedia is simply unbeaten in terms of readability. Remember: form follows function, not the other way around. |
Proxay
Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.07 07:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Omber Zombie ^^^ what he said
We don't recruit anyone, go away. |
Janice Jankowski
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Posted - 2009.06.07 10:24:00 -
[9]
I also support this.
I tried helping on another eve wiki a while back, but soon found that the owner reverts changes because missing links are "for future use". |
Yozul
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Posted - 2009.06.07 11:37:00 -
[10]
It seems to me that CCP isn't really interested in an actual Wiki. Perhaps EVElopedia could be left pretty much how it is, or more likely made so only CCP themselves can edit it, but they could call it an official information page or some such thing. Then they could perhaps provide links to an independent Wiki that they claim no responsibility for. (An official unofficial Wiki, if you will.)
It seems to me that CCP wants a level of control that doesn't mesh well with the concept of a Wiki. That's fine, but I think a lot of people, myself included, would love to see a Wiki with a greater degree of freedom. |
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ISD Eshtir
ISD YARR
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Posted - 2009.06.07 12:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Well exactly, what's the point of evelopedia?
GM's and ISD's are the only ones that seem to be able to edit it.
A playerbase wiki would be 100 times better.
I stopped using it after when I went to it for a couple of answers on two seperate occasions and found it's guides to be too dumbed down to offer the information that I required.
Hi,
Everyone with an active EVE Online Account can edit and create new articles on the Evelopedia. The sysops (The ISD YARR Team) only approves them and checks for inaccuracy. Im sorry to hear you did not find a guide that suit your needs. Therefor im inviting you to write one and share it with the community.
Quote: I've posted a list of reasons over at EVElopedia as to why I believe the project is largely unused, and thoughts on how to reverse the suckage. Your comments would be appreciated, either in this thread or over at the Wiki.
EVElopedia: The SysOp Jungle
Regards, --P
I will also respond to this on the EVElopedia Community Portal Discussion page a bit later today. But here it goes guys, we are always open to hear your ideas to improve the EVElopedia. I hope we can maintain a nice discussion and not see lots of "Signed" or "i agree" posts because sadly that doesnt help anyone.
Safe travels, -Eshtir |
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Cloudheart
Evolva' Spirit Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.06.07 22:28:00 -
[12]
A wiki should be open to every registered account to edit, without any approval process. As the op pointed out, people need to pay to get an account to edit Evelopedia - so banning will be much more effective than at other wiki's. This is one of the big reasons I haven't been interested in using it up until now. It seems unnecessary to have mods that review every update.
What does a mod do if they see a great edit (or new page) that's unfortunately half full of mistakes (grammar or gameplay)? Would such a post be rejected, modified by the one checking it, or accepted?
Under normal circumstances, something like that would immediately end up on the wiki, and other experienced users would shortly notice the mistakes and correct them. --- Regular lotteries for all players running at http://evelink.servegame.org/igb/ |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.06.07 23:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 07/06/2009 23:50:09
Originally by: ISD Eshtir
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Well exactly, what's the point of evelopedia?
GM's and ISD's are the only ones that seem to be able to edit it.
A playerbase wiki would be 100 times better.
I stopped using it after when I went to it for a couple of answers on two seperate occasions and found it's guides to be too dumbed down to offer the information that I required.
Hi,
Everyone with an active EVE Online Account can edit and create new articles on the Evelopedia. The sysops (The ISD YARR Team) only approves them and checks for inaccuracy. Im sorry to hear you did not find a guide that suit your needs. Therefor im inviting you to write one and share it with the community.
I'm not the best person to ask probably for writing guides but I'll give it another look and will probably have a go if I see something.
I don't know if it's got better since I last looked but I was annoyed when trying to read up some time ago about Tech 3 production.
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Kaitou Shiroi
Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 01:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Pilk Stuff
/Signed
I tried giving the Evelopedia a shot, but I found it to be rather cumbersome in comparison to other Wiki's I've dealt with in the past (I haunt several subjects worth of articles on the English Wikipedia as well as a few others), and the amount of control exhibited by CCP is frankly annoying. The entire concept of a Wiki is that despite a few idiots that permeate society, people as a whole are rather knowledgeable and willing to fix errors they find.
By having EVERY SINGLE CHANGE approved by either a Dev or an ISD worker, you're completely ignoring the entire point of a wiki. Step away from the "Disapprove" button. Please stop behaving like a helicopter parent, and let your child grow. Sure there's going to be some sc****s and bruises, but the results will be much stronger than if you wrapped it in a bubble so it'd never develop. |
Krystal Vernet
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.06.08 02:01:00 -
[15]
What makes a wiki such a powerful tool is that it allows for near real-time collaboration between editors without them ever necessarily needing to meet or talk with each other. I might make an edit to, say, the Tempest battleship page to update some old information but make a couple spelling errors I don't catch. Another editor sees them and just fixes them. All it takes is to push "Edit this page". The wiki software keeps track of all the edits, with copies of all the old versions and a simple rollback button for when you need to undo some changes. This same ease of editing and an alert community will fix about any problems that arises from vandals and the like. It's what makes Wikipedia such a success.
Forcing all revisions to undergo an approval process, however simple, is an arbitrary step that stifles the same freedom that allows a wiki to really flourish and it's a tep that I would only see as necessary for a select few pages.
In the end, though, it comes down to what the aim of the Evelopedia is. Is it just a copy of the item database with some consolidation of various racial information that I can find through the site already? Or is it a project to bring together the distilled wisdom and knowledge of the community to aid in the understanding of the game for everyone involved? A lot of what's on the forums is scattered, hard to find. Consolidating some of the better, lasting information on the forums would be a good thing to do on the Evelopedia. |
gleman
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.06.08 06:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ISD Eshtir
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Well exactly, what's the point of evelopedia?
GM's and ISD's are the only ones that seem to be able to edit it.
A playerbase wiki would be 100 times better.
I stopped using it after when I went to it for a couple of answers on two seperate occasions and found it's guides to be too dumbed down to offer the information that I required.
Hi,
Everyone with an active EVE Online Account can edit and create new articles on the Evelopedia. The sysops (The ISD YARR Team) only approves them and checks for inaccuracy. Im sorry to hear you did not find a guide that suit your needs. Therefor im inviting you to write one and share it with the community.
Quote: I've posted a list of reasons over at EVElopedia as to why I believe the project is largely unused, and thoughts on how to reverse the suckage. Your comments would be appreciated, either in this thread or over at the Wiki.
EVElopedia: The SysOp Jungle
Regards, --P
I will also respond to this on the EVElopedia Community Portal Discussion page a bit later today. But here it goes guys, we are always open to hear your ideas to improve the EVElopedia. I hope we can maintain a nice discussion and not see lots of "Signed" or "i agree" posts because sadly that doesnt help anyone.
Safe travels, -Eshtir
I just want to know who approved This page?
IMHO homophobia and antisemitism have no place in this game(items 11 and 17) or are Butt Buddies and Jew Gold CCP accecptable terms? |
Claudius Atropos
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.06.08 07:17:00 -
[17]
I have to agree with what others have said above; as the Evelopedia is now it's truly not a very worthwhile place to do research or find any Eve information. It's horribly incomplete, the info that's included is a hodgepodge, it's not easy to search, but the single biggest issue is the "approval" process.
I read the IGS regularly and the longtime contributors there are very well acquainted with the Eve backstory; I'd go so far as to say that some of the regulars in the IGS know more about in-game and metagame lore than a great many of CCP's employees. It's people like this who are volunteering to share their knowledge by adding articles to Evelopedia and IMO, should be allowed to do so unhindered by an "approval" process. Please consider the OP's advice and let the Eve wiki live up to its potential!
(And ffs PLEASE do something about these forums as well! It's taken me 8 attempts now to post this because something keeps asking me to log in each time I click on 'post reply') |
Kewso
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Posted - 2009.06.08 07:24:00 -
[18]
Well I guess that's why it's called the evelopedia and not the Eve Wiki.
So for those wanting it to be like a wiki, it's not, it's not even it's name. So complaining about a wiki makes no sense anyhow.
This is an evelopedia not some moron wiki that anyone can edit to wind up like http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com or http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com
That's why the current system is best which requires approval so morons and idiots don't troll the system and spam it with crap like they would.
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2009.06.08 07:32:00 -
[19]
Moved to " Features & Ideas Discussion ".
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.06.08 07:34:00 -
[20]
Sounds like an issue for the CSM to champion.
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SentryRaven
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.08 10:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Applebabe Moved to " Features & Ideas Discussion ".
OMG.... |
SentryRaven
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.08 10:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: gleman
I just want to know who approved This page?
IMHO homophobia and antisemitism have no place in this game(items 11 and 17) or are Butt Buddies and Jew Gold CCP accecptable terms?
Was just fixed, but what I find more interesting, is that the very own forum software we are using here, does not seem to be able to link to Evelopedia pages that contain brackets, such as.... all corporation, alliance and NPC entries? |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:34:00 -
[23]
OP is asking for full freedom to edit texts etc (if I understood it right). While I commend the OP on putting in the effort I'm sure he understand that with the type of players EVE has, full freedom would end in a mess.
It seems people can't handle freedom very well. |
Pilk
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tzar'rim OP is asking for full freedom to edit texts etc (if I understood it right). While I commend the OP on putting in the effort I'm sure he understand that with the type of players EVE has, full freedom would end in a mess.
It seems people can't handle freedom very well.
Originally by: gleman I just want to know who approved This [ed.: changed to working URI] page?
IMHO homophobia and antisemitism have no place in this game(items 11 and 17) or are Butt Buddies and Jew Gold CCP accecptable terms?
Pages like this just prove my point. Because there's an approval process in place, if I ran across this page in the state it was in (diff), I would look at the "approved" tag and be unwilling to edit out that sort of thing if I felt it wasn't appropriate. Then the Hand of CCP comes along, finds the article unsatisfactory, makes whatever changes It sees fit to make, metes out punishment (or not) based on Its whim, and moves on, leaving nothing but confused and/or ****ed-off editors in its wake. Now let's imagine it the other way. I see it, and think, "What sort of thing is this?" and change it. Now some PL guy comes and changes it back. An edit war ensues, the page gets protected, and we hash it out on Talk pages or in ArbCom-style mediation, and end up with a consistent, publicly-determined, publicly-accessible set of policy guidelines that we can now apply to the entire encyclopedia.
Little do they know it, but those who push community consensus to the breaking point on things like humor (Willy on Wheels), political correctness (Kelly_Martin), and even simple sanity (anything on WP:LEW) do more to improve the encyclopedia in the long term than to harm it. Generally-accepted policies do not get created in a vacuum. Let the community work, and the whole encyclopedia will work. Don't, and it will die.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: PAID! |
McEivalley
Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 12:48:00 -
[25]
/signed
Insert clever remark where?? |
Pilk
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 13:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ISD Eshtir I will also respond to this on the EVElopedia Community Portal Discussion page a bit later today.
...?
--P |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.11 14:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Well exactly, what's the point of evelopedia?
GM's and ISD's are the only ones that seem to be able to edit it.
A playerbase wiki would be 100 times better.
I stopped using it after when I went to it for a couple of answers on two seperate occasions and found it's guides to be too dumbed down to offer the information that I required.
Wrong, only locked articles can't be edited by everyone. There's a lot of articles that are unlocked and can be edited. You just have to login in order to do it.
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Pilk
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.19 09:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Well exactly, what's the point of evelopedia?
GM's and ISD's are the only ones that seem to be able to edit it.
A playerbase wiki would be 100 times better.
I stopped using it after when I went to it for a couple of answers on two seperate occasions and found it's guides to be too dumbed down to offer the information that I required.
Wrong, only locked articles can't be edited by everyone. There's a lot of articles that are unlocked and can be edited. You just have to login in order to do it.
The problem arises because the criteria for locking an article, or for approving an article, or for anything else the administrators do, are 100% opaque. That means that you're throwing data into the pool, and it's up to an unseen and unknowable process whether or not that data ends up where you want it. That's not a good mindset to have as a contributor. Additionally, you can't go, "Oh, here, let me link you to the EVElopedia entry on that," when a friend asks you a question, but pause to fix a small error in it before you give them the link. Finally, many of the articles people would most like to contribute to (such as "Amarr") are outright locked, with no formal process available to suggest changes as in Wikipedia's {{editprotected}}.
--P |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.19 10:45:00 -
[29]
Any information source is only as good as the information found there. For example:
Quote: The Drake is considered to be a weak solo PvP ship as it has relatively low damage output and must compromise its tank by fitting propulsion and tackling modules.
:facepalm: |
Pilk
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.21 09:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ISD Eshtir I will also respond to this on the EVElopedia Community Portal Discussion page a bit later today.
OMG, seriously!? I just went to EVElopedia to remind you of this, trying to be nice even though it's been over two weeks since you said you'd reply, and your User Talk page is locked! Do you understand the very concept of a Talk page!?
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: PAID! |
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