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Merchantus
shot from the dark Rebel Alliance of New Eden
0
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Posted - 2012.05.15 03:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yes, I know the arguement: We have Industrials (Mammoth, Iteron, Badger, etc)... and then we have Freighters (Obelisk, Charon, etc). The best one being the Iteron Mark V with, T1 cargo rigs and T2 cargo mods, will carry a little over 38k m3.
Both have their purposes. Industrials for small, local stuff. Freighters for the HUGE thing/massive moves. They'll move over 750k m3, and that's an Obelisk with Gallente Freighter 1 skill. We have Jump freighters for, well, jumping. Of course they have a smaller cargohold than a regular freighter, makes sense.
Then we have the Industrial Command Ships (Orca and Rorqual). The Orca with T1 cargo rigs and T2 cargo mods will carry over 83k m3 cargohold and 40k m3 corporate hanger. A Rorq can be used like a JF, however, it is still limited. With T2 large cargo rigs and T2 cargo extender mods, the Rorq will have a cargo of ~140k m3 cargohold and 30k m3 corporate hanger. I'm not even going to get into the ore holds, although if you're hauling only unrefined ore the Orca is pretty freakin' sweet at ~173k m3.
So, with that in mind, you have around 30k m3 for industrials... then you'll have to drop over 650mil isk for an Orca (plus all the skill training required for it) to haul ~120k m3, but not as one package. Then, for cargosize, you have the massively-expensive JFs. And, biggest of all, the ~3bil ISK freighters.
So, my question is, where are the "Light" Freighters? Where are the ships that have a cargohold of around 150 to 175k m3, with level 1 skills? I know that many a pilot like to use cargo hauling as a passive income (pick up a contract, autopilot to pickup point, autopilot to destination, all while doing other things like... whatever it is you want to do).
A Light Freighter would fill that little niche between cheap industrials and WTF expensive freighters. You could even have a jump-capable version with a cargohold similar in size to the Orca's. This will allow pilots who want to be the space truckers of New Eden (btw, Space Truckers was a HORRIBLE movie) to all for more efficient movement of goods around space. Market prices are fairly inflated right now due to the Rogue Drone changes and, rightfully, the anti-botting efforts of CCP.
Good logistics are vital to the EVE economy. A Light Freighter will all for smaller packages to be moved faster (more people picking up the contracts and the ships will actually fly faster, albiet by a little bit, than their big brothers).
So, please CCP, consider add Light Freighters in the Fall or Winter expansions.
Oh, and one other thing: Why does the Gallente get FIVE versions (well, 6 if you include the Quafe version) of the Iteron industrial and, yet, the Caldari get only TWO badgers, with the Badger Mark II maxed out around 20k m3?! Bring up a Badger Mark III!
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FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
91
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Posted - 2012.05.15 04:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Here is the most recent thread on this topic...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1191930#post1191930
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Boomhaur
57
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Posted - 2012.05.15 04:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gallente are overachievers which is why they have 6. Minmatar has 3 due to rust shortages at the time of production. Caldari has 2 because all you really need to ship for frigates/cruisers/BC sized ships in terms of ammo for their race is kinetic missiles so they don't need to haul much. Ammar has 2 because they got distracted by their shiney ships so production stopped.
Closest thing you have to a light freighter will be your Orca, or the Ferir/Nomad due to them being the fastest of the freighter/jump freighter. I wouldn't hold my breath that they will come out with a light freighter anytime soon, not enough people freighter goods in comparison to using combat ships, so your going to have to make due for now sadly. I know I would like see a non jumpdrive "jump freighter" which be the hi sec special version of it so I can have a cheaper version of it, but thats not going to happen. So for now all my large expensive cargo gets contracted out to a 3rd party to freighter for me. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Azemar
Order of the Silver Dragons Eternal Evocations
3
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Posted - 2012.05.15 05:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree completely with you. You have these cheap ships that can carry up to 38k m3 for minimal skills (Well a lot of people dont train Gall Indy 5 but still). Then you have to have ships which cost upwards of 750 mil and up for a ton of skills.
They should make a halfway point. Light Freighters that can carry roughly 200k m3, probably about 200 mil on the market. It wouldn't hurt anyone.
From- The guy without orca skills that's tired of making 6 trips from the station to his ore with an Iteron. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
225
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Posted - 2012.05.15 05:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Posting in a stealth buff ganking thread. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
steave435
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
70
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Posted - 2012.05.15 09:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Logistics is already too easy as it is, hence why everyone can easily get to jita to do their shopping instead of encouraging local markets. Also, I'll sell you any amount of freighters you want for only 2b each. Yeah, I'm nice like that. |
Nazowa
UK Corp RAZOR Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.05.15 11:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
This has been asked numerous times and I totally agree that there is a need for such a ship class. Hope CCP takes a look at it. Worst case they can use Orca hull minus Corp Hangar. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
284
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Posted - 2012.05.15 12:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Because rapid, easy movement of large volumes of materials is fundamentally bad for Eve. |
Merchantus
shot from the dark Rebel Alliance of New Eden
2
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Posted - 2012.05.15 15:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nazowa wrote:This has been asked numerous times and I totally agree that there is a need for such a ship class. Hope CCP takes a look at it. Worst case they can use Orca hull minus Corp Hangar.
I like the idea of using the Orca hull for a light freighter. CCP already did that with the Primae and the Noctis (btw CCP, the Noctis is FREAKIN' awesome! Bad-ass salvager but with no tank whatsoever, which I'm fine with. Still survived that arty cane in low-sec that one time...).
steave435 wrote:Logistics is already too easy as it is, hence why everyone can easily get to jita to do their shopping instead of encouraging local markets. Also, I'll sell you any amount of freighters you want for only 2b each. Yeah, I'm nice like that.
I disagree that logistics is too easy. The industrials are slow to align, slow warping, slow everything. That's their nerf (and rightfully so). As for local markets, they do exist. I would much rather fly 4 jumps to Rens to get items than the 26 jumps (distance from Rens to Jita, via high-sec). Local markets are a convenience. And, the best prices aren't always found in Jita.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
286
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Posted - 2012.05.15 16:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Merchantus wrote:
I disagree that logistics is too easy. The industrials are slow to align, slow warping, slow everything.
These drawbacks are inconsequential.
I'd love to ban freighters and Orca (well, restrict their cargo to Itty V levels) from highsec. Rapid transport of minerals and good to and from Jita would be impractical, destroying Jita as a superhub and producing many more smaller hubs. Goods would be built close to where their minerals were mined, producing greater regional effects in market that traders, miners and manufacturers would be able to take advantage from, rather than all being forced to compete agaisnt each other (and the bots) in the handful of superhubs. Vast amounts of empty highsec space would become useful.
Can you imagine the RAGE if CCP proposed such a move though! |
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2012.05.15 16:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Merchantus wrote:
I disagree that logistics is too easy. The industrials are slow to align, slow warping, slow everything.
These drawbacks are inconsequential. I'd love to ban freighters and Orca (well, restrict their cargo to Itty V levels) from highsec. Rapid transport of minerals and good to and from Jita would be impractical, destroying Jita as a superhub and producing many more smaller hubs. Goods would be built close to where their minerals were mined, producing greater regional effects in market that traders, miners and manufacturers would be able to take advantage from, rather than all being forced to compete agaisnt each other (and the bots) in the handful of superhubs. Vast amounts of empty highsec space would become useful. Can you imagine the RAGE if CCP proposed such a move though!
Im not sure you know what you are asking for when you ask for something like that. you would kill most hisec trade, and we all know how well freighters do in lowsec unless they have some large alliance behind them,
This will not do what you want it to do. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
George Whitebread
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.05.15 17:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Because rapid, easy movement of large volumes of materials is fundamentally bad for Eve.
Who said it has to be rapid or easy? We just want a ship that is less skill intensive and cheaper than a full sized freighter. I don't mind it being slow as hell.
"I say what I like, and I like what I bloody well say" - George Whitebread |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
286
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Posted - 2012.05.15 17:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Im not sure you know what you are asking for when you ask for something like that. you would kill most hisec trade
Kill it? Doubt it. I suspect that if freighters were excluded from highsec, trade and industry would increase in something like 95% of highsec systems. |
George Whitebread
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.05.15 17:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stupid quote-button.... "I say what I like, and I like what I bloody well say" - George Whitebread |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2012.05.15 17:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
We don't need light freighters because we have Orca. |
Dors Venabily
United Starbase Systems
18
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Posted - 2012.05.15 22:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Because rapid, easy movement of large volumes of materials is fundamentally bad for Eve.
This and in fact they should nerf the hell out of the jumpdrive range and jump bridges while at it.
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MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
356
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Posted - 2012.05.15 22:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
George Whitebread wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Because rapid, easy movement of large volumes of materials is fundamentally bad for Eve. Who said it has to be rapid or easy (except maybe a little faster as OP suggests)? We just want a ship that is less skill intensive and cheaper than a full sized freighter. I don't mind it being slow as hell.
From industrial level 1 to a Freighter is what? 25-28 days? That is not skill intensive at all. Even an Orca is only 45-60 days to train.
The size gap is there for a reason, it directly impacts the markets in the area. Whenever I see these proposals I have to wonder what the OP wants to move that would not work out on the available ships. I have a hard time not coming back to the observation that they are just looking for an easier path without thought towards the impact of these things.
But then again, I could just play along and say sure, go ahead, add them, but they need to use autopilot only to get around. The Unified Inventory system for Inferno, which I would recommend everybody tryon SiSi, is going to be the next 'Door' for CCP. What it adds is worthless when we lose so much functionality.-á |
Abyssum Invocat
Farewell and Adieu
8
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Posted - 2012.05.15 23:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
steave435 wrote:Logistics is already too easy as it is, hence why everyone can easily get to jita to do their shopping instead of encouraging local markets. Also, I'll sell you any amount of freighters you want for only 2b each. Yeah, I'm nice like that. Absolutely agreed. Markets outside of the basic hubs are often terrible. I'm all for cutting the cargoholds on freighters, JFs, and cloaky haulers. |
Flakey Foont
Javalinas
121
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Posted - 2012.05.16 00:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
I see the usual suspects asking that the game be changed as they don't wish to wait for things. |
Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
89
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Posted - 2012.05.16 00:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Training isn't particularly bad for a freighter which is a cap ship.
Decided I would do a blank character in Evemon real quick
Caldari - deteis - scientist (why that, cause I clicked through real quick)
29 days to undock in a charon, all skills are per/will training at 1800 sp/hr
29 days in the grand scheme is not so bad considering racial indy is just shy of 24 days of it
Not to mention that you can train transport ships out of the deal which are real handy for losec logistics |
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Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Exhale.
257
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Posted - 2012.05.16 02:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
We do, theyre called 'orca' |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.16 11:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
steave435 wrote:Logistics is already too easy as it is, hence why everyone can easily get to jita to do their shopping instead of encouraging local markets. Also, I'll sell you any amount of freighters you want for only 2b each. Yeah, I'm nice like that.
Agree with this statement.
It's all about the grand scheme of things and actually if some regions are out of good trade stations it's only because moving goods is far too easy. This is not good for other regions than high sec because null sec production prices are high due to several risk factors.
Moving goods in high sec is already far too easy.
Moving HUGE amounts of goods from null to high sec is already way too easy
ORCA is the light stronger hauler you can use in high sec and can carry huge amounts of stuff or isk.
Moving goods from high sec to null sec is a piece of cake with Jump freighters and alts.
It's probably the industry point that is in need of a good shake. While I agree industrial ships are in need of a buff on EHP, align/warp, resist profile and probably some cargo, add more ships when you already have far more options than are needed would be silly. |
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