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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:08:00 -
[1]
Currently faction warfare has a conundrum. One side has captured all the Gallente systems.
Here is the problem: now there are no Caldari pilots buzzing around looking for plexes to capture, and Gallente really don't have enough pilots who care.
I played Total Annihilation back in the day when Boneyards was around. That was entertainment. You had a goal: to win as many systems for either the Arm or Core. When the campaign was successful and one side had conquered all the territory, the side got a victory point and the map reset.
Do the same for EVE. Give the Caldari a victory point and reset the Gallente/Caldari faction warfare systems.
Since there are no tangible rewards being given, I think that is a fair request.
It will bring less blobbing and more small PVP back to faction warfare.
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Roger11
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:13:00 -
[2]
Yes something needs to be done. Your idea won't work unless theres an RP angle to it though. Why would the war suddenly be reset? I think theres other solutions too, like better rewards for plexers.. Gallente just don't care about the plexing side of things because its 99% boring pve with no reward |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:16:00 -
[3]
I do not want reset.
There was good reason to take all systems.
Caldari does not need to care about npc anymore. So if we pvp in plexes we have npc advantage. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:19:00 -
[4]
Dont reset it, add negative feedback instead of current positive feedback. Easiest solution is to just make it easier for the one with few systems to take systems. |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:28:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Furb Killer
Dont reset it, add negative feedback instead of current positive feedback. Easiest solution is to just make it easier for the one with few systems to take systems.
Why they have to change anything. Just get people and take those back. |
Louis DelaBlanche
The Anonna Mouse Commune
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
I do not want reset.
There was good reason to take all systems.
Caldari does not need to care about npc anymore. So if we pvp in plexes we have npc advantage.
If Gallente weren't fighting you with (pretty crap) NPCs on their side, do you expect them to even contemplate fighting u with (pretty good) NPCs on your side? |
Tosi
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:44:00 -
[7]
Are you saying you are way too lazy to grind them back? |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:01:00 -
[8]
No, I'm not saying we're too lazy, but the odds are stacked way against us.
This war is akin to a game of chess, only your side has Rooks in place of Pawns.
You have twice the number of pilots that we do, your NPC navy is significantly stronger due to the fact that it pulls of ECM jamming with stunning efficiency and we know that ECM already makes PVP difficult, let's just throw jamming rats into the mix. |
Pusha Man
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tosi
Are you saying you are way too lazy to grind them back?
I think he's saying something more along the lines of, "Every one of your NPCs is a Griffin or a Blackbird, you don't even have to bring your own ECM! Forget that crap, we'll ride bikes instead." |
EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:04:00 -
[10]
Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 08/06/2009 12:04:15
no reset, no I'm not plexing, and I've notice no change in FW. |
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Jenna Side
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:09:00 -
[11]
I do not believe gallante doesn't have enough pilots who care. They actually do have enough pilots who care but they have to pretend they don't care. Hoping that ccp would give them a break and reset the systems coz they don't want more egg on their face admitting they stuffed up not defending their systems.
So the options are simple:
- Take your systems back (or atleast attempt too)
or
- Continue playing docking-games, who-has-the-bigger-blob and catch-the-interceptor.
Plex warfare is more tactical then the rubbish you guys refer to as pvp that happens in Tama/OMS everyday. It would however mean you guys have to adapt or ... |
Turelus
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:25:00 -
[12]
I don't see why the systems should be reset or the plex's put on "easy mode" we took all the systems under the current mechanics and never once complained about anything wrong with the system other than it didn't have enough interest in it to bring more players/fights over them.
Everyone seems to be on here complaining about Caldari numbers & post downtime plexing and that's how we did so well, when the reason was we have maybe four or five major corps who enjoy plexing and wanted to see if we could get everything, so we set up intel channels for those corps and coordinated our efforts with one another to take as much as we could.
There is nothing in the current system stopping the Gallente taking systems back, Microfunks have been a thorn in our side for a bloody long time now with their plexing of NW Black Rise and got systems so close to flipping we had to send front line offensive teams back home to defend for a couple of weeks.
Also if any of you can think back maybe six of seven months ago FOOM captured a huge section of Black Rise with the current mechanics.
Everyone has already gained the benefit of scan probes so we no longer have to spend 10mins per system when scanning, and that's something we never had back in the VV campaign when we took about 80% of that region.
If the Gallente want their systems back they need to find corps/players that want to plex and enjoy it get into some intel channels and work together on a section at a time, also look for guys in EU timezones that are on college break or unemployed so you can have your own after DT plexing force.
Sorry for the rant but the solutions to the problems are simple if people used their brains, we had always hoped our push would light the fires under the backsides of the Gallenete much like FOOM did for the Caldari but it never happened.
I know you have guys like WOLFY who are a hardcore PVP based corp and I respect that as each side needs them, but your side also needs corps that plex and instead of coming on the forums and smacking everyone who plex's maybe you should be more diplomatic over it as to not make your own sides plexers feel unwanted. (btw this paragraph was not aimed at WOLFY if it reads like that)
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:30:00 -
[13]
you must look behind the numbers.
Yesterday we had a fleet in OMS, standard Caldari fleet, BC heavy with lots of ECM and seige warfare.
In HEYD was a similar sized Gallente fleet ~30+ composed of entierly T1 frig/dessie.
here's how things went..
Gallente jump into OMS, tackle Drake....FC calls us to flee. 5min latter the drake pops with no rescue atempts.
Statistics like having twice the pilots is meaningless compared to quality of pilots.
Wether the quality of Gallente > Caldari, I don't know for that.
/join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jenna Side
I do not believe gallante doesn't have enough pilots who care. They actually do have enough pilots who care but they have to pretend they don't care. Hoping that ccp would give them a break and reset the systems coz they don't want more egg on their face admitting they stuffed up not defending their systems.
I don't want systems reset. I hate those stupid Squid plexes with their ECM and Missiles. Plus there is never anybody in them when I play.
Originally by: Jenna Side
So the options are simple:
- Take your systems back (or atleast attempt too)
You are obviously new or havn't been listening. The Gallente couldn't give a toss about plexes. The Caldari have know this for months but it didn't stop them running them all unopposed anyway. The Gallente have no intention of making a full scale assault to take anything back because there's no need. So don't complain if you want to pvp in a plex but can't find any plexes or anyone to fight. It's not the Gallente fault that the Eastern Euros/unemployed in the Caldari militia ran all your plexes.
Originally by: Jenna Side
or
- Continue playing docking-games, who-has-the-bigger-blob and catch-the-interceptor.
Thanks. We will. For a lot of us, myself included, that's the kind of PvP we wanted. With no more plexes left - I'm in heaven.
Originally by: Jenna Side
Plex warfare is more tactical then the rubbish you guys refer to as pvp that happens in Tama/OMS everyday. It would however mean you guys have to adapt or ...
..or what? I don't need to adapt because I still get kills every day. The Caldari, who loved running plexes, will have to adapt to my playstyle if they want to get any pvp out of FW. Or you could ask CCP for a reset if you like plexes so much.
like you said.....Adapt or Die.......or leave through boredom.
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AD Kirin
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: AD Kirin on 08/06/2009 12:57:49
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
This war is akin to a game of chess, only your side has Rooks in place of Pawns.
Really? I think of FW as more of a game of naked twister with prison inmates:
- Your opponents aren't particularly honorable or good people
- There is no higher objective
- You might get butt hurt. |
X Gallentius
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:04:00 -
[16]
They earned them; they keep them.
Want fights? Cap a few offensive plexes. Squid plexers are attracted to bright blue spots on the occupancy map.
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jag
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:20:00 -
[17]
I would say , either leave it as it is or :-
Give the cadari pilots that were involved in at least 100 plex captures a ribbon , not a medal.
To quote Napolean Bonaparte "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon".
Reset all the systems.
Start again , and when a pilot has 10 ribbons , he gets a medal
OR
Reset all the systems.
Change plex spawns to random times through out the day.
Fix it so afk cloakers have no effect on plexes.
Change the caldari rats to gallente faction and make them fight for gallente , and vice versa.
That should take the caldari plexers about 2 years to recap all the systems , give them a bit of a challenge , make them feel they achieved something rather then just been given an easy victory .
And ban any caldari pilot that keeps asking on the forum for a reward for the current sytems captures ( egs:-turn sytems into squid hi-sec, stop gallente docking in them , make squid navy protect the systems , come on guys stop making yourselves look stupid , think before you post ),
you were promised nothing , you got nothing , so why are you whining now to try get something ?
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:28:00 -
[18]
Since the frogs won't do anything but docking games and gate camps, make occupancy mean something. Put Sentry Guns at gates/stations that are Occupying Force friendly. And will fire on enemy militia reagrdless of their faction standing.
Tada, you squish lame docking games and gate camps in emnemy systems and you make there a point to occupancy |
EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Since the frogs won't do anything but docking games and gate camps, make occupancy mean something. Put Sentry Guns at gates/stations that are Occupying Force friendly. And will fire on enemy militia reagrdless of their faction standing.
Tada, you squish lame docking games and gate camps in emnemy systems and you make there a point to occupancy
Who is this guy? I know he's not pervs cause they would post with their main with no fear. He's not CAIN cause lets be honest those guys are pros. SO I'M LOOKING AT YOU 22nd????
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Xianbei
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jenna Side
I do not believe gallante doesn't have enough pilots who care.
wrong
gallente really really do not care about plexing
the pvp stats show they are more interested in wiping the floor with your bood than
fighting NPC bots and flipping systems
caldari are just pve carebear whiners and trying to make the war about capturing systems
and gallente dont care
got it ? |
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Steve Floros
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Steve Floros on 08/06/2009 14:11:42
Edited by: Steve Floros on 08/06/2009 14:10:58
FW is just a sub-game in the universe of EVE. Caldari won that game by CCP's rules. Every game has a starting and an ending. FW should end. In-game actions are supposed to change the story-line. So, change the story line.
If nothing changes, there is really NO POINT in playing FW. Its just a waste of ISK and time. If someone wants to pvp, enter the Amarr-Minmatar war.
We fought for a cause, and we were denied victory. |
David Caldera
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:28:00 -
[22]
Edited by: David Caldera on 08/06/2009 14:29:40
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz
Since the frogs won't do anything but docking games and gate camps, make occupancy mean something. Put Sentry Guns at gates/stations that are Occupying Force friendly. And will fire on enemy militia reagrdless of their faction standing.
Tada, you squish lame docking games and gate camps in emnemy systems and you make there a point to occupancy
And what would this accomplish? You're going to make it even harder for the Gallente to recapture their systems now they have none left? You're only going to turn away people who PvP and you will make the Gallente even less inclined to plex. Excellent design my man, you win the prize.
As it stands now, any change to the plexing mechanic requires CCP to reset the whole thing. You can whine all you want, but if something ever changes CCP can't just leave things as they are. Which leads me to two possible future scenarios:
1. CCP changes the mechanics and resets the whole thing. The unholy Apocalypse of whining will begin when the Caldari plexers are forced to see the achievements they won through a flawed mechanic negated. Even worse is the chance that people *still* won't care and the whole cycle starts again.
2. CCP leaves things the way they are now. Nothing changes, nobody cares.
Either way the Caldari shot themselves in the foot. Heck, if we are to believe this Devblog the Caldari ensured that they *cannot* be rewarded for capturing everything. I'll quote the important part:
Quote:
...If the attackers succeed in their assault, the system changes hands at the next downtime, which is reflected in one of the new map modes.
For now, this produces no effects outside of the warfare mechanics, but once the system settles down and we get a good handle on the way things play out in the real world, we have the opportunity to give it more significant impact without risking seriously unbalancing other areas of the game.
One side having everything is as unbalanced as it gets.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to ridicule what the Caldari accomplished. As an RPer and as a gamer I have respect for the fact that they managed to accomplish their goals. But they will also have to accept that if things are going to be changed their entire achievement will be undone. |
Unfamed II
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
*snip* we're too lazy *snip*
That's the spirit! |
Steve Floros
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:35:00 -
[24]
If the next patch comes, and nothing changes, I don't think there will be anyone left plexing. Whats the point if we can't win? Pvp for ever? With no goal at all? |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:17:00 -
[25]
FFS that stupid forum is eating posts again...
Why i want negative feedback? Currently there is positive feedback in place. Especially after dt, caldari just have a stronger presence, some corporations who do an excellent job, etc. After every system you took, you could focus your offensive more on the remaining systems, letting them switch to your side faster. That is just bad game design.
If you are two times stronger than we are, you should hold two times more systems, not all systems.
And while it is certainly true that you won them because of some corporations doing a very good job, and that gallente scream more they dont care than that they dont care, some other things are also true. You do have a huge numerical advantage (especially looking at active players). Caldari npcs are far more usefull than gallente npcs.
One thing is sure, there is no way in the current situation we will hold any system. I have little doubt we can, and eventually will, take a system back. But then we got the entire caldari militia attacking that single system, and we cant win that, especially after downtime. |
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:18:00 -
[26]
I don't see any reason to reset the map until the fundamental game mechanisc of FW are fixed, and even then CCP should probably keep it the way it is. |
Kessiaan
Minmatar
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:26:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 08/06/2009 15:27:43
I wouldn't support a reset, that would invalidate everything the Caldari have worked hard to accomplish, as well as go against the 'spirit' of EvE where your actions have consequences.
I also wouldn't support adding sentries or faction spawns in occupied systems. If you make being in the Gallente militia worse than being a straight-up pirate, everyone will quit and just yarr it up.
The system does need to change. If plexes are to remain a PvE accomplishment you should get PvE rewards, I wouldn't have a problem with this. Personally I think changing the plex spawn mechanics so they favor whoever actually occupies the system more rather than who can muster the most people to log in 10 seconds after the server comes up would be a good first step, and might be all that's required even. Giving all NPCs the same e-war (I'd suggest points and webs, maybe even fewer but stronger NPCs, ala Sleepers) would help address NPC imbalances as well. |
Matharos
Lost Creek Corporation
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DARTHxFREE
you must look behind the numbers.
Yesterday we had a fleet in OMS, standard Caldari fleet, BC heavy with lots of ECM and seige warfare.
In HEYD was a similar sized Gallente fleet ~30+ composed of entierly T1 frig/dessie.
here's how things went..
Gallente jump into OMS, tackle Drake....FC calls us to flee. 5min latter the drake pops with no rescue atempts.
Statistics like having twice the pilots is meaningless compared to quality of pilots.
Wether the quality of Gallente > Caldari, I don't know for that.
I would like to add that this was a awesome fight! Havn't had that much fun in a long time. 
Hope to have more frig blob in the future  |
Val Erian
Gallente
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:19:00 -
[29]
just lulz really.
No reset its a stupid idea ( which means CCP might do it !)
lulz at people like Siig, fun guy etc , but who never wanted to and has hardly ever plexed or left OMS/Tama pipe.
lulz at Steve F. who thinks that occupying all ssytems was a victory condition when there are no victory conditions. Yeah FW is a endless pvp...lol.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Val Erian
lulz at people like Siig, fun guy etc , but who never wanted to and has hardly ever plexed or left OMS/Tama pipe.
:3
I have plexed. I don't call it the best thing ever, but occasionally I'll tank a plex out of boredom just to farm rank.
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