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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:08:00 -
[1]
Currently faction warfare has a conundrum. One side has captured all the Gallente systems.
Here is the problem: now there are no Caldari pilots buzzing around looking for plexes to capture, and Gallente really don't have enough pilots who care.
I played Total Annihilation back in the day when Boneyards was around. That was entertainment. You had a goal: to win as many systems for either the Arm or Core. When the campaign was successful and one side had conquered all the territory, the side got a victory point and the map reset.
Do the same for EVE. Give the Caldari a victory point and reset the Gallente/Caldari faction warfare systems.
Since there are no tangible rewards being given, I think that is a fair request.
It will bring less blobbing and more small PVP back to faction warfare.
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Roger11
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:13:00 -
[2]
Yes something needs to be done. Your idea won't work unless theres an RP angle to it though. Why would the war suddenly be reset? I think theres other solutions too, like better rewards for plexers.. Gallente just don't care about the plexing side of things because its 99% boring pve with no reward |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:16:00 -
[3]
I do not want reset.
There was good reason to take all systems.
Caldari does not need to care about npc anymore. So if we pvp in plexes we have npc advantage. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:19:00 -
[4]
Dont reset it, add negative feedback instead of current positive feedback. Easiest solution is to just make it easier for the one with few systems to take systems. |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Furb Killer Dont reset it, add negative feedback instead of current positive feedback. Easiest solution is to just make it easier for the one with few systems to take systems.
Why they have to change anything. Just get people and take those back. |
Louis DelaBlanche
The Anonna Mouse Commune
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bad Messenger I do not want reset.
There was good reason to take all systems.
Caldari does not need to care about npc anymore. So if we pvp in plexes we have npc advantage.
If Gallente weren't fighting you with (pretty crap) NPCs on their side, do you expect them to even contemplate fighting u with (pretty good) NPCs on your side? |
Tosi
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:44:00 -
[7]
Are you saying you are way too lazy to grind them back? |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:01:00 -
[8]
No, I'm not saying we're too lazy, but the odds are stacked way against us.
This war is akin to a game of chess, only your side has Rooks in place of Pawns.
You have twice the number of pilots that we do, your NPC navy is significantly stronger due to the fact that it pulls of ECM jamming with stunning efficiency and we know that ECM already makes PVP difficult, let's just throw jamming rats into the mix. |
Pusha Man
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tosi Are you saying you are way too lazy to grind them back?
I think he's saying something more along the lines of, "Every one of your NPCs is a Griffin or a Blackbird, you don't even have to bring your own ECM! Forget that crap, we'll ride bikes instead." |
EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:04:00 -
[10]
Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 08/06/2009 12:04:15 no reset, no I'm not plexing, and I've notice no change in FW. |
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Jenna Side
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:09:00 -
[11]
I do not believe gallante doesn't have enough pilots who care. They actually do have enough pilots who care but they have to pretend they don't care. Hoping that ccp would give them a break and reset the systems coz they don't want more egg on their face admitting they stuffed up not defending their systems.
So the options are simple: - Take your systems back (or atleast attempt too) or - Continue playing docking-games, who-has-the-bigger-blob and catch-the-interceptor.
Plex warfare is more tactical then the rubbish you guys refer to as pvp that happens in Tama/OMS everyday. It would however mean you guys have to adapt or ... |
Turelus
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:25:00 -
[12]
I don't see why the systems should be reset or the plex's put on "easy mode" we took all the systems under the current mechanics and never once complained about anything wrong with the system other than it didn't have enough interest in it to bring more players/fights over them.
Everyone seems to be on here complaining about Caldari numbers & post downtime plexing and that's how we did so well, when the reason was we have maybe four or five major corps who enjoy plexing and wanted to see if we could get everything, so we set up intel channels for those corps and coordinated our efforts with one another to take as much as we could.
There is nothing in the current system stopping the Gallente taking systems back, Microfunks have been a thorn in our side for a bloody long time now with their plexing of NW Black Rise and got systems so close to flipping we had to send front line offensive teams back home to defend for a couple of weeks.
Also if any of you can think back maybe six of seven months ago FOOM captured a huge section of Black Rise with the current mechanics.
Everyone has already gained the benefit of scan probes so we no longer have to spend 10mins per system when scanning, and that's something we never had back in the VV campaign when we took about 80% of that region.
If the Gallente want their systems back they need to find corps/players that want to plex and enjoy it get into some intel channels and work together on a section at a time, also look for guys in EU timezones that are on college break or unemployed so you can have your own after DT plexing force.
Sorry for the rant but the solutions to the problems are simple if people used their brains, we had always hoped our push would light the fires under the backsides of the Gallenete much like FOOM did for the Caldari but it never happened.
I know you have guys like WOLFY who are a hardcore PVP based corp and I respect that as each side needs them, but your side also needs corps that plex and instead of coming on the forums and smacking everyone who plex's maybe you should be more diplomatic over it as to not make your own sides plexers feel unwanted. (btw this paragraph was not aimed at WOLFY if it reads like that)
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:30:00 -
[13]
you must look behind the numbers.
Yesterday we had a fleet in OMS, standard Caldari fleet, BC heavy with lots of ECM and seige warfare. In HEYD was a similar sized Gallente fleet ~30+ composed of entierly T1 frig/dessie.
here's how things went.. Gallente jump into OMS, tackle Drake....FC calls us to flee. 5min latter the drake pops with no rescue atempts.
Statistics like having twice the pilots is meaningless compared to quality of pilots. Wether the quality of Gallente > Caldari, I don't know for that.
/join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jenna Side I do not believe gallante doesn't have enough pilots who care. They actually do have enough pilots who care but they have to pretend they don't care. Hoping that ccp would give them a break and reset the systems coz they don't want more egg on their face admitting they stuffed up not defending their systems.
I don't want systems reset. I hate those stupid Squid plexes with their ECM and Missiles. Plus there is never anybody in them when I play.
Originally by: Jenna Side
So the options are simple: - Take your systems back (or atleast attempt too)
You are obviously new or havn't been listening. The Gallente couldn't give a toss about plexes. The Caldari have know this for months but it didn't stop them running them all unopposed anyway. The Gallente have no intention of making a full scale assault to take anything back because there's no need. So don't complain if you want to pvp in a plex but can't find any plexes or anyone to fight. It's not the Gallente fault that the Eastern Euros/unemployed in the Caldari militia ran all your plexes.
Originally by: Jenna Side
or - Continue playing docking-games, who-has-the-bigger-blob and catch-the-interceptor.
Thanks. We will. For a lot of us, myself included, that's the kind of PvP we wanted. With no more plexes left - I'm in heaven.
Originally by: Jenna Side
Plex warfare is more tactical then the rubbish you guys refer to as pvp that happens in Tama/OMS everyday. It would however mean you guys have to adapt or ...
..or what? I don't need to adapt because I still get kills every day. The Caldari, who loved running plexes, will have to adapt to my playstyle if they want to get any pvp out of FW. Or you could ask CCP for a reset if you like plexes so much.
like you said.....Adapt or Die.......or leave through boredom.
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AD Kirin
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: AD Kirin on 08/06/2009 12:57:49
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
This war is akin to a game of chess, only your side has Rooks in place of Pawns.
Really? I think of FW as more of a game of naked twister with prison inmates: - Your opponents aren't particularly honorable or good people - There is no higher objective - You might get butt hurt. |
X Gallentius
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:04:00 -
[16]
They earned them; they keep them.
Want fights? Cap a few offensive plexes. Squid plexers are attracted to bright blue spots on the occupancy map.
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jag
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:20:00 -
[17]
I would say , either leave it as it is or :-
Give the cadari pilots that were involved in at least 100 plex captures a ribbon , not a medal.
To quote Napolean Bonaparte "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon".
Reset all the systems.
Start again , and when a pilot has 10 ribbons , he gets a medal
OR
Reset all the systems.
Change plex spawns to random times through out the day.
Fix it so afk cloakers have no effect on plexes.
Change the caldari rats to gallente faction and make them fight for gallente , and vice versa.
That should take the caldari plexers about 2 years to recap all the systems , give them a bit of a challenge , make them feel they achieved something rather then just been given an easy victory .
And ban any caldari pilot that keeps asking on the forum for a reward for the current sytems captures ( egs:-turn sytems into squid hi-sec, stop gallente docking in them , make squid navy protect the systems , come on guys stop making yourselves look stupid , think before you post ),
you were promised nothing , you got nothing , so why are you whining now to try get something ?
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:28:00 -
[18]
Since the frogs won't do anything but docking games and gate camps, make occupancy mean something. Put Sentry Guns at gates/stations that are Occupying Force friendly. And will fire on enemy militia reagrdless of their faction standing.
Tada, you squish lame docking games and gate camps in emnemy systems and you make there a point to occupancy |
EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz Since the frogs won't do anything but docking games and gate camps, make occupancy mean something. Put Sentry Guns at gates/stations that are Occupying Force friendly. And will fire on enemy militia reagrdless of their faction standing.
Tada, you squish lame docking games and gate camps in emnemy systems and you make there a point to occupancy
Who is this guy? I know he's not pervs cause they would post with their main with no fear. He's not CAIN cause lets be honest those guys are pros. SO I'M LOOKING AT YOU 22nd????
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Xianbei
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jenna Side I do not believe gallante doesn't have enough pilots who care.
wrong
gallente really really do not care about plexing
the pvp stats show they are more interested in wiping the floor with your bood than fighting NPC bots and flipping systems
caldari are just pve carebear whiners and trying to make the war about capturing systems
and gallente dont care
got it ? |
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Steve Floros
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Steve Floros on 08/06/2009 14:11:42 Edited by: Steve Floros on 08/06/2009 14:10:58 FW is just a sub-game in the universe of EVE. Caldari won that game by CCP's rules. Every game has a starting and an ending. FW should end. In-game actions are supposed to change the story-line. So, change the story line.
If nothing changes, there is really NO POINT in playing FW. Its just a waste of ISK and time. If someone wants to pvp, enter the Amarr-Minmatar war.
We fought for a cause, and we were denied victory. |
David Caldera
Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:28:00 -
[22]
Edited by: David Caldera on 08/06/2009 14:29:40
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz Since the frogs won't do anything but docking games and gate camps, make occupancy mean something. Put Sentry Guns at gates/stations that are Occupying Force friendly. And will fire on enemy militia reagrdless of their faction standing.
Tada, you squish lame docking games and gate camps in emnemy systems and you make there a point to occupancy
And what would this accomplish? You're going to make it even harder for the Gallente to recapture their systems now they have none left? You're only going to turn away people who PvP and you will make the Gallente even less inclined to plex. Excellent design my man, you win the prize.
As it stands now, any change to the plexing mechanic requires CCP to reset the whole thing. You can whine all you want, but if something ever changes CCP can't just leave things as they are. Which leads me to two possible future scenarios:
1. CCP changes the mechanics and resets the whole thing. The unholy Apocalypse of whining will begin when the Caldari plexers are forced to see the achievements they won through a flawed mechanic negated. Even worse is the chance that people *still* won't care and the whole cycle starts again.
2. CCP leaves things the way they are now. Nothing changes, nobody cares.
Either way the Caldari shot themselves in the foot. Heck, if we are to believe this Devblog the Caldari ensured that they *cannot* be rewarded for capturing everything. I'll quote the important part:
Quote: ...If the attackers succeed in their assault, the system changes hands at the next downtime, which is reflected in one of the new map modes.
For now, this produces no effects outside of the warfare mechanics, but once the system settles down and we get a good handle on the way things play out in the real world, we have the opportunity to give it more significant impact without risking seriously unbalancing other areas of the game.
One side having everything is as unbalanced as it gets.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to ridicule what the Caldari accomplished. As an RPer and as a gamer I have respect for the fact that they managed to accomplish their goals. But they will also have to accept that if things are going to be changed their entire achievement will be undone. |
Unfamed II
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa *snip* we're too lazy *snip*
That's the spirit! |
Steve Floros
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:35:00 -
[24]
If the next patch comes, and nothing changes, I don't think there will be anyone left plexing. Whats the point if we can't win? Pvp for ever? With no goal at all? |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:17:00 -
[25]
FFS that stupid forum is eating posts again...
Why i want negative feedback? Currently there is positive feedback in place. Especially after dt, caldari just have a stronger presence, some corporations who do an excellent job, etc. After every system you took, you could focus your offensive more on the remaining systems, letting them switch to your side faster. That is just bad game design.
If you are two times stronger than we are, you should hold two times more systems, not all systems.
And while it is certainly true that you won them because of some corporations doing a very good job, and that gallente scream more they dont care than that they dont care, some other things are also true. You do have a huge numerical advantage (especially looking at active players). Caldari npcs are far more usefull than gallente npcs.
One thing is sure, there is no way in the current situation we will hold any system. I have little doubt we can, and eventually will, take a system back. But then we got the entire caldari militia attacking that single system, and we cant win that, especially after downtime. |
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:18:00 -
[26]
I don't see any reason to reset the map until the fundamental game mechanisc of FW are fixed, and even then CCP should probably keep it the way it is. |
Kessiaan
Minmatar MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:26:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 08/06/2009 15:27:43 I wouldn't support a reset, that would invalidate everything the Caldari have worked hard to accomplish, as well as go against the 'spirit' of EvE where your actions have consequences.
I also wouldn't support adding sentries or faction spawns in occupied systems. If you make being in the Gallente militia worse than being a straight-up pirate, everyone will quit and just yarr it up.
The system does need to change. If plexes are to remain a PvE accomplishment you should get PvE rewards, I wouldn't have a problem with this. Personally I think changing the plex spawn mechanics so they favor whoever actually occupies the system more rather than who can muster the most people to log in 10 seconds after the server comes up would be a good first step, and might be all that's required even. Giving all NPCs the same e-war (I'd suggest points and webs, maybe even fewer but stronger NPCs, ala Sleepers) would help address NPC imbalances as well. |
Matharos
Lost Creek Corporation
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DARTHxFREE you must look behind the numbers.
Yesterday we had a fleet in OMS, standard Caldari fleet, BC heavy with lots of ECM and seige warfare. In HEYD was a similar sized Gallente fleet ~30+ composed of entierly T1 frig/dessie.
here's how things went.. Gallente jump into OMS, tackle Drake....FC calls us to flee. 5min latter the drake pops with no rescue atempts.
Statistics like having twice the pilots is meaningless compared to quality of pilots. Wether the quality of Gallente > Caldari, I don't know for that.
I would like to add that this was a awesome fight! Havn't had that much fun in a long time.
Hope to have more frig blob in the future |
Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:19:00 -
[29]
just lulz really.
No reset its a stupid idea ( which means CCP might do it !)
lulz at people like Siig, fun guy etc , but who never wanted to and has hardly ever plexed or left OMS/Tama pipe.
lulz at Steve F. who thinks that occupying all ssytems was a victory condition when there are no victory conditions. Yeah FW is a endless pvp...lol.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.08 16:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Val Erian
lulz at people like Siig, fun guy etc , but who never wanted to and has hardly ever plexed or left OMS/Tama pipe.
:3
I have plexed. I don't call it the best thing ever, but occasionally I'll tank a plex out of boredom just to farm rank.
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Turelus
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.06.08 20:04:00 -
[31]
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz Since the frogs won't do anything but docking games and gate camps, make occupancy mean something. Put Sentry Guns at gates/stations that are Occupying Force friendly. And will fire on enemy militia reagrdless of their faction standing.
Tada, you squish lame docking games and gate camps in emnemy systems and you make there a point to occupancy
Who is this guy? I know he's not pervs cause they would post with their main with no fear. He's not CAIN cause lets be honest those guys are pros. SO I'M LOOKING AT YOU 22nd????
Not one of ours that I know of... could be someone's alt I don't really keep track of them.
TBH I don't care what happens to the systems now, they can reset them if they like, I think it's a stupid idea but I don't plan on being in FW for ever and no matter what happens now I can always say "I was there for most of the Caldari plex campaign and there for the fall of the final system" even if that means nothing it's enough for me. |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.06.08 21:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Roger11 Yes something needs to be done. Your idea won't work unless theres an RP angle to it though. Why would the war suddenly be reset?
Why would Occupancy not affect Sovereignty? Why can war targets move freely in and out of captured systems, and even dock and use services at enemy stations?
Nothing about FW makes sense. Resetting it won't cause it make less sense. It'll just make it interesting again. |
Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.08 21:53:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Roger11 Yes something needs to be done. Your idea won't work unless theres an RP angle to it though. Why would the war suddenly be reset?
Same way a Minmatar joint fleet filled with Capitals attacked the CONCORD Station in Yulai. |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.06.09 06:04:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 09/06/2009 06:04:45 A simple reset will not do anything, only start the whole thing anew with all the problems that are still in the system. Just handing over some meaningless victory points will not mean anything either. It works in on-and-off games because you're not risking any permanent assets, and reloading gives you a full fleet of robots again. In EVE you can lose your precious internet spaceship.
FW is highly underpopulated - heck, I think there's more people logged into Jita than active FW pilots at any given time.
What needs to be done is something that draws more people into faction warfare, and some mechanics need to be added that even out the numerical disadvantages - and these need to be scripted to take active pilots into account on a daily basis (if you do something simple like "Ok, Caldari/Gallente odds is 5:3, so let's weaken Caldari NPCs by 5/3" any changes in participation will upset the balance you built so carefully). And not pilots signed in either, otherwise you could influence your opponent even more by signing up useless alts with him.
Then FW needs something that makes fighting worthwhile, and it needs to affect everyone, not just FW members. If you just add some penalties for FW members (the oft-mentioned faction sentry guns or NPC attacks even in low sec) it will only cause people to leave militia because it becomes to inconvenient. Right now there is NO advantage from being in militia except a free wardec against a lot of targets. This would need to change - you need to get some kind of bonus for being active in your militia. Best would be if that bonus could be tied into occupancy. I pondered giving militia pilots a bonus to reprocessing or cheaper factory and research slots (the latter was suggested by someone else, I admit), but both would need to be a significant boost to overcome the benefits a simple alt has who is not involved in a war.
And this is where IMO CCP painted itself into a corner it cannot get out again without annoying a lot of people since they decided to add FW pre-nerfed without rewards.
If they add any kind of reward now they WILL upset someone. If they add a reward for plexing or capturing bunkers the Caldari will be disadvantaged because they have nothing to capture. If they add a reward for having the systems under control the Gallente can whine "If there had been a reward in the first place we WOULD have plexed, promise!". And they cannot simply reset everything without implying "everything you did was meaningless" - and besides, there'd have to be some major RP upheaval, like Gallente capital ships bombarding Yulai for a change - and that does not fit what I perceive as CCP's "Bash anything Gallente" policy.
I have no idea how the Amarr/Minmatar front is, but to make FW interesting again (outside of giving out a free wardec) several serious changes have to be made, and I either cannot see CCP do it ("Ok, we admit pre-nerfing was a mistake, here's something different") or don't even have a solution (like combatting the numerical imbalances with some mechancis that also cannot be exploited).
Frankly, I fear FW will remain a small side show for those who want to have a war active at all times.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.06.09 09:20:00 -
[35]
From what I can see, the only Way CCP Would get away with a 50/50 Reset of FW would be if they left the current FW Systems as they are and opened up a large amount of Gallente Systems that aren't currently covered by the Occupancy Rules as becoming part of the Warzone.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's enough Gallente Low Sec Systems Left to do this to the required degree. However, it may be possible to stretch the War out of Low Sec into 0.5-0.6 Sec in areas where the Caldari have taken the low sec systems around it (I.E. Make it possible, though Extremely Difficult for the Caldari to take Systems like Villore as they'd have to deal with both the Plex NPC's as well as the Faction Navy with their Webs) ---------------
Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.06.09 09:44:00 -
[36]
Even if ALL systems were capturable it would not change anything - those unwilling to plex will still say "It's only a line on the screen".
Remember there is no border, anyone can strike anywhere. Should high sec be capturable I figure one side would make a blob, camp Dodixie or Motsu until it's captured. And this again would cause even more people to quit FW because these systems will be perfectly fine for non-FW members yet FW members cannot effectively mission there any more.
In the long run this will lead to all systems of the smaller side being occupied since superior numbers will still win anything, and not having a safe zone will cause more and more pilots to leave the losing side. Less opponents makes capturing even easier, but what you need (from an ideal game point of view) is a system where it becomes harder to take systems the more you have. Ideally there would be some goal (like, "Take Caldari Prime back", but CCP already spoiled that) that is extremely hard and in fact unobtainable for long periods of time to motivate both sides to stay and fight.
As it is currently there is little motivation to start Gallente plexing ("Uh, why bother, they own anything anyway, and outnumber us to boot") or for the Caldari to continue besides occasional patrols to keep systems uncontested.
IMO, both sides lost here - dreams should remain unobtainable.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.06.09 10:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Steve Floros Edited by: Steve Floros on 08/06/2009 14:11:42 Edited by: Steve Floros on 08/06/2009 14:10:58 FW is just a sub-game in the universe of EVE. Caldari won that game by CCP's rules. Every game has a starting and an ending. FW should end. In-game actions are supposed to change the story-line. So, change the story line.
If nothing changes, there is really NO POINT in playing FW. Its just a waste of ISK and time. If someone wants to pvp, enter the Amarr-Minmatar war.
We fought for a cause, and we were denied victory.
Heh. Still trying to make it count for something, are we?
Try to understand this plainly obvious concept. Factional Warfare was never meant to be 'won'. It was meant to be continuous, which it is. It's meant to give people on either side a reason for combat.
The Gallente may have failed on the plexing (this was always going to happen seeing as the mechanic is skewed in Caldari's favour), but the Caldari have failed in understanding that this was only ever a means to provoke PvP. Even if the territory was reset, they would just replex everything and we'd have this problem again.
Plexing needs a big fix. We all know that. Until this is done, there is no reason to keep bickering, as it means nothing, and affects nothing.
In my opinion, plexing needs a mechanic to balance out certain things. Firstly, plex difficulty should be scalar, linked with opposition population size. For every 500 people difference, the difficulty goes up a degree. This would mean that more people would be needed to do a single plex, and also perhaps factor the occupancy percentage, so that the more territory you own, the harder the plexes get. In theory, the last opposition plex should require the combined effort of at least 75% (maybe even higher) of the militia population. This would then give the opposition some real satisfaction in capturing it. As it stands, once you get to a certain point (say, 70%-80%), capturing the rest of the plexes is inevitable, and far to easy, as a large population can concentrate on a small area. Having a scalar difficulty mechanic based on population size and territory owned would be a great leveller between the sides.
ECM should also be either removed from Caldari NPCs (and supplied with another form of EW), or just given to all four navies as standard. Compared to other forms of EW, it is too all-encompassing. The others reduce your ability to fight, whereas ECM removes it completely. And it doesn't seem to have the drawback of PvP ECM, where you have to have the right kind of ECM to truly affect the enemy ships. If the Caldari navy just spawned one type of racial jammer at a time (thus only actually being able to jam one race's of ships completely), it would be a step in the right direction, although it should be randomised, so one time they would have minmatar jammer, and another, they would have gallente jammers, but only one type at a time.
Finally, we need an incentive to get those who weren't bothered before to get involved. The simplest, and most commonly proposed option is to give people loyalty points for each plex they capture. They could then spend these loyalty points on new ships, or specific modules or ammo. At the higher echelons, you could even offer T3 stuff (and believe me, that will get people involved). In any case, it would have to be some exciting stuff available only to militia members.
If these changes were implemented, I think you'd see a fairer playing field. It then wouldn't even be necessary to reset the territory, as the first few systems the Gallente recapture would be very, very easy, and Caldari would find resecuring them very, very difficult. As we progress to a midway point, things would be roughly equal between us.
Until these changes are made, I think any posturing based on territory owned is effectively meaningless, and plexing a broken mechanic. |
Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 11:02:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ratchman
Originally by: Steve Floros Edited by: Steve Floros on 08/06/2009 14:11:42 Edited by: Steve Floros on 08/06/2009 14:10:58 FW is just a sub-game in the universe of EVE. Caldari won that game by CCP's rules. Every game has a starting and an ending. FW should end. In-game actions are supposed to change the story-line. So, change the story line.
If nothing changes, there is really NO POINT in playing FW. Its just a waste of ISK and time. If someone wants to pvp, enter the Amarr-Minmatar war.
We fought for a cause, and we were denied victory.
whine
Still crying about the npc ecm, which is not even too powerful, unless you're solo. Being gallente, you ain't. Ever thought about doing something before all the plexes had caldari npc's? Nope, didn't think so. Funny as hell, you seem to care a lot more about plexes and occupancy, than your "pro-pvp'er" image really allows. |
Ratchman
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 11:07:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness FW is highly underpopulated - heck, I think there's more people logged into Jita than active FW pilots at any given time.
What needs to be done is something that draws more people into faction warfare, and some mechanics need to be added that even out the numerical disadvantages - and these need to be scripted to take active pilots into account on a daily basis (if you do something simple like "Ok, Caldari/Gallente odds is 5:3, so let's weaken Caldari NPCs by 5/3" any changes in participation will upset the balance you built so carefully). And not pilots signed in either, otherwise you could influence your opponent even more by signing up useless alts with him.
I think you make a good point here with pilot inactivity, but I suspect this happens on all four sides. I think if my suggestions were implemented (mentioned above) some people would argue that inactive pilots would skew the mechanic. However, inactive pilots affect all four sides to a similar percentage. But if you wanted to include it on my suggested mechanic, you could have a pilot removed from the population count if they do not kill a war target or gain a victory point within a specific time period. In fact, the game could issue them with an activity warning a few days before, and the automatically remove them from militia. That would help us also get a better idea of who |
Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.06.09 11:49:00 -
[40]
Thanks to Pervs and the other eastern/unemployed players in the caldari militia for showing ccp that the plex respawn mechanics are broken. Let's hope ccp take less time fixing this than they have analysing the logs everyone sent in after the 'lag spectacular' you guys set up. |
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.06.09 11:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ratchman The Gallente may have failed on the plexing (this was always going to happen seeing as the mechanic is skewed in Caldari's favour)
Too bad FOOM proved you wrong here and had a 5-1 lead on systems captured on us at one point but I didnt really see much other Gallentes helping them out or capitalising on this success.
Since Gallentes keep bleeding people away according to IC statistics, I am pretty sure being on "losing side" affects some people (this does not include Tama dwellers naturally).*
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
*No, I dont feel bad about it. When Gallente militia has less than 1000 members in it, I can chill out |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.06.09 12:20:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Unfamed II Still crying about the npc ecm, which is not even too powerful, unless you're solo. Being gallente, you ain't. Ever thought about doing something before all the plexes had caldari npc's? Nope, didn't think so. Funny as hell, you seem to care a lot more about plexes and occupancy, than your "pro-pvp'er" image really allows.
Does my proposed idea threaten you, then? Does the idea of having a challenge, rather than a steamroller to success, worry you?
I would like plexing to count for something, as it is a promising idea, but it isn't working properley. Of course you will make the argument that we are whining, because the system benefitted you. Much in the same way that British MP's are stating that there was nothing against the rules in their expenses claims, certain Caldari like to express that they worked for their victory, when they know that they had it easier. To deny you had an advantage is to deny the sun is a big ball of fire at the centre of the solar system.
Unfamed, and people like him, just try to irritate the Gallente, because it is the only way they can make their effort worth anything. Face it, plexing the whole territory has gotten you nothing, and hardly prevented us from doing anything. What incentive is there for us to take it back?
I do occasionally plex, usually to draw in PvP, and it always works. But not for a second am I worrying about the state of our territory. Who cares what it says in the corner? As I stated in my previous post, the purpose behind FW is not to create something you can win, but to create something that acts as a PvP arena. It is not meant to be won. It is meant to be enjoyed.
I offer a way to make plexing worth something, to both Gallente and Caldari. And what do you offer? Just the same old smack talk. It's a shame that people feel the need to smack talk, but I guess it's an inevitable part of the game.
If you are against my idea, just provide a counter-argument as to why you don't want rewards, or for holding enemy territory to mean something. |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.06.09 12:41:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Too bad FOOM proved you wrong here and had a 5-1 lead on systems captured on us at one point but I didnt really see much other Gallentes helping them out or capitalising on this success.
Since Gallentes keep bleeding people away according to IC statistics, I am pretty sure being on "losing side" affects some people (this does not include Tama dwellers naturally).*
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
*No, I dont feel bad about it. When Gallente militia has less than 1000 members in it, I can chill out
Firstly, the whole thing with FOOM happened before the Caldari started to get their act together. They were good, dedicated plexers at a time when there were very few people really making much of an effort in it.
Secondly, being on the losing side doesn't bother me, and neither does it bother that many Gallente. You state that our population is crashing, but it doesn't look like either ours or yours has changed that much at all. I know we lost one big corp, but we gained a load of new players. The Caldari seem to have grown slightly. From my point of view, everything looks pretty healthy at the moment. Besides, if the Gallente just disbanded, who would you have to gloat over?
Finally, I'm not surprised you want to chill out. You were very agitated when my corpies spanked you just the other day. If the game starts to affect you that badly, you need to take a break from it.
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Jenna Side
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Posted - 2009.06.09 12:44:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ratchman
I would like plexing to count for something, as it is a promising idea, but it isn't working properley. Of course you will make the argument that we are whining, because the system benefitted you.
If you are against my idea, just provide a counter-argument as to why you don't want rewards, or for holding enemy territory to mean something.
At the moment you might be able to hide behind broken mechanics excuses, but I wonder what excuses the Gallante militia will come up with once they get their shiny rewards and meaning for territory and are still getting pwnd. |
X Gallentius
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.09 13:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Ratchman
Too bad FOOM proved you wrong here and had a 5-1 lead on systems captured on us at one point but I didnt really see much other Gallentes helping them out or capitalising on this success.
It is nice to see somebody from the Squid side admit that most of the Gallente couldn't care less about plexing. We tried to encourage our fellow militia members to plex, but (as pointed out here for the past 6 months) they didn't like to orbit button all day long 23/7. I don't blame them.
More squids were happy to do it. You have the reward you knew you were going to have all along - Pink dots are now blue. No reason to cry about it now.
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.06.09 13:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jenna Side ...I wonder what excuses the Gallante militia will come up with ...
I can already answer that: being outnumbered almost 2:1 :P
But this IS a serious issue since it sullies any success that Caldari side may have. Everything they do can be "countered" by the "You outblobbed us!" flame.
I'd like to see some solution to that for a totally different reason as well: as long as the GalMil has the excuse "Caldari are more" they need not look into the real reasons why they lost. Right now it's the broken mechanics, DT plexing and whatnot - all may be viable concerns, but I think they all could have been countered by more organisation.
That's what is missing on the Gallente side, and what the Caldari side has and IMO plays a much bigger role than cloaked plexing or whatever.
But as long as you can place the blame on something that is beyond your control, why try to change yourself?
Getting organized is an effort however, and aparently noone in the GalMil is eager to embark upon that journey. And I can totally understand it - after all, there's little to show for it besides faction standing - which is mostly useless. For a while I was very active in plexing and we were moderately organized - but anything more would have required a lot of effort. In the end I decided that it would resemble work too much and that it's not in my best interest to pay $15 monthly to do something that I don't like to do.
FW was nice for fast quick-and-dirty fights, but the mindless beacon orbitting wasn't, nor was motivating people to do something I didn't like myself.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
X Gallentius
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.09 16:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness Everything they do can be "countered" by the "You outblobbed us!" flame.
Perhaps the proper equilibrium has been reached - guerrilla warfare. The squids outnumber Gallente 2:1. So why wouldn't they be able to win the occupancy game if they put their minds to it (which they did)?
What have they done lately though other than gloat over something that was a foregone conclusion one month ago?
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.06.09 17:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Ratchman The Gallente may have failed on the plexing (this was always going to happen seeing as the mechanic is skewed in Caldari's favour)
Too bad FOOM proved you wrong here and had a 5-1 lead on systems captured on us at one point but I didnt really see much other Gallentes helping them out or capitalising on this success.
When FOOM was doing it the best Caldari plexer was Daniel Jackson.
That should give you an idea of the level of the Caldari militia at the time... |
Sky Grunthor
Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.06.09 17:13:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Ratchman The Gallente may have failed on the plexing (this was always going to happen seeing as the mechanic is skewed in Caldari's favour)
Too bad FOOM proved you wrong here and had a 5-1 lead on systems captured on us at one point but I didnt really see much other Gallentes helping them out or capitalising on this success.
When FOOM was doing it the best Caldari plexer was Daniel Jackson.
That should give you an idea of the level of the Caldari militia at the time...
Daniel Jackson...mmmmh mmmmh goooood! nom nom
Anyway, when FOOM was doing it, no one knew how to truly plex effectively, we led the way and the caldari in the form of the PERVS, CAIN and the 22nd to name a few learned and responded. First time around we saw good opposition, but the second time around the opposition came into their own and have continued to build on that skill.
The day of the solo plexer being effective is over if it ever truly existed. Solo plexers aren't effective because they don't really work in converting constellations. They may get a specific system but constellation killing requires focused effort by many. This is best performed on a corporation level.
anyway, arguing about it at this time is buffoonery. It doesn't matter why its like it is. The players accept why it is and don't really care, they are doing what they want to do. ------------------------------------------------- Search: Sky Grunthor |
Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.06.09 18:08:00 -
[50]
Just make occupancy count for something... I am tired of hearing the 'we don't care about a little line of text in the corner that doesn't matter' |
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Steve Floros
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Posted - 2009.06.09 19:01:00 -
[51]
Brutal Betrayal is a good way to summarize it... Still waiting for the next patch... |
Victoria Akmea
Gallente Taishite Kami
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Posted - 2009.06.09 19:25:00 -
[52]
It's been a while since I've played FW, but I've been reading arguments, and I agree that Plexing is a bit broken.
My suggestion is different. I'd say reset about 1/3rd the Gallente systems. For those people who need an RP excuse, the Gallente Navy made a determined thrust and retook some systems.
Now what needs to happen is they redo the NPCs a bit. Or at least the NPC spawn system. Yeah, Plex mechanics needs to be fixed too, but look at it this way. When the systems were spread 50-50, each side had even NPCs. As a side loses space, say 25 Gallente 75 Caldari, percentages of course, the Caldari NPCs should be spread out more, less NPCs per Plex or something, making it easier for the Gallente to retake the system. Likewise, Gallente forces are are more concentrated, meaning more spawns in their Plexes, requiring more Caldari pilots to take them.
I'd also implement randomized assaults/patrols. Have the Plex NPCs randomly show up at gates, stations, etc, patrolling the sector as it would be. Also add in random spawns of the enemy NPCs in a system, starting at a gate and warping off to a Plex, station...Hell, make it so gate/station sentries won't attack them for whatever reason, so that players have to fight off these invasions. It'll provide some roleplaying aspect... "Today, Gallente Militia have staved off an assault by the Caldari, ten Navy ships as well as fifteen Militia vessels in the Old Man Star system. News at nine." That'll give some people the PvP they want, it'll give the Plexers something to do as they'll need more and more every time they capture a system...And probably would make the last system nearly impossible to capture, providing them a neverending Plex fun! That's just some solution to the problem, I guess. My .02 isk on what should be at least part of a solution.
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Bestofworst
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.10 01:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tosi grind them back?
You know there is a point where the fun involved doesn't equal the effort that was put in. |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 11:39:00 -
[54]
Gallente tells how good pvp players they are.
Still they want to change mechanics to way where mechanic itself defends their systems, not pvp players.
CCP ment that opposite faction players defend plexes not npc, npc was there only for making little difference for attacking or defending.
Have a fun with Caldari npc
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.06.10 12:57:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Droog 1 on 10/06/2009 12:57:32
Originally by: Bad Messenger Gallente tells how good pvp players they are.
Still they want to change mechanics to way where mechanic itself defends their systems, not pvp players.
Completely wrong. The Euro and US primetime players want the plexes to not favour the people in your timezone. They want an opportunity to fight over plexes and for the Control Bunkers not to go vulnerable at 14.00 Evetime when most of Eve are in bed or at work/school etc. I'm sure Pervs would be complaining if plexes respawned at 02.00 Evetime. Of course you think everything is working fine as it is because it is a huge benefit to you and the eastern/ unemployed players.
Originally by: Bad Messenger
CCP ment that opposite faction players defend plexes not npc, npc was there only for making little difference for attacking or defending.
So you agree that the NPCs should be removed from plexes because they make very little difference.
Originally by: Bad Messenger Have a fun with Caldari npc
Have a fun when CCP finally realise the mistakes they have made with FW and hit you with the Nerf bat. Hard.
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JonahtheGreat
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.06.10 17:08:00 -
[56]
I have been doing a lot of plexing. I know that we can retake our systems back but I agree that we need to organize and get the job done. The Gallente focus mainly on the pvp, though lately there has been some great head way on the plexing side. I do not want a reset. We (the Gallente Militia) should stand up and work hard to accomplish the retaking of our systems. Now I have heard it said there is no money in plexing and I can say that in a couple of hours I have made of 20-30 million isk from looting and salvaging the wrecks. Just because there are no bounties does not mean that there is no isk in it.
So I say leave it or change it I don't care. The Gallente Militia just needs to step it up. I may not be liked here but I am being honest from my point of view.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.10 17:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: JonahtheGreat I have been doing a lot of plexing. I know that we can retake our systems back but I agree that we need to organize and get the job done. The Gallente focus mainly on the pvp, though lately there has been some great head way on the plexing side. I do not want a reset. We (the Gallente Militia) should stand up and work hard to accomplish the retaking of our systems. Now I have heard it said there is no money in plexing and I can say that in a couple of hours I have made of 20-30 million isk from looting and salvaging the wrecks. Just because there are no bounties does not mean that there is no isk in it.
So I say leave it or change it I don't care. The Gallente Militia just needs to step it up. I may not be liked here but I am being honest from my point of view.
People like you should quit eve and do something else !
ps. I added you to my most wanted list |
Matharos
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.06.10 18:48:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: JonahtheGreat I have been doing a lot of plexing. I know that we can retake our systems back but I agree that we need to organize and get the job done. The Gallente focus mainly on the pvp, though lately there has been some great head way on the plexing side. I do not want a reset. We (the Gallente Militia) should stand up and work hard to accomplish the retaking of our systems. Now I have heard it said there is no money in plexing and I can say that in a couple of hours I have made of 20-30 million isk from looting and salvaging the wrecks. Just because there are no bounties does not mean that there is no isk in it.
So I say leave it or change it I don't care. The Gallente Militia just needs to step it up. I may not be liked here but I am being honest from my point of view.
People like you should quit eve and do something else !
ps. I added you to my most wanted list
BM I have been on your list for sometime and still haven't seen you.... I know I'm big and scary but I promise that I don't bite
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JonahtheGreat
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.06.10 18:50:00 -
[59]
why should I quit?
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Atraxerxes
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.06.10 19:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Give the Caldari a victory point and reset the Gallente/Caldari faction warfare systems.
Since there are no tangible rewards being given, I think that is a fair request.
How about?
Reset it to give the Caldari complete control of the space they just capture, which didn't get a single pilot anything in return except massive bragging rights if they were role players.
Then start giving out tangible rewards for plexing.
That is a fair request. hitting the reset button so you don't screw your Madden Football season stats is not fair.
AX
EVE's #1 (full length) podcast "Fly Reckless"
Fly Reckless
Voted "Best New Comer" EON Magazine 2009. Listen to it today |
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Steve Floros
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Posted - 2009.06.10 19:53:00 -
[61]
EVE is supposed to be a Role Playing Game, not just a big action game LAN. Since its RPG, our actions SHOULD determine the story-line. I am interested to see how CCP is going to role-play this war. What excuse will the Gallentes have to continue fighting, if ALL their low-sec is taken? |
Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.06.10 20:00:00 -
[62]
Quote: What excuse will the Gallentes have to continue fighting, if ALL their low-sec is taken?
Er...How about to take it back.
You and Atraxerxes act like the situation is permament. When ssytem occupancy can change. |
X Gallentius
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.10 20:01:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Steve Floros What excuse will the Gallentes have to continue fighting, if ALL their low-sec is taken?
RP answer: Guerrilla warfare baby! Le Resistance has already begun!
I'm interested in seeing if Caldari are still interested in FW now that their daily dose of PvE has been taken away. What excuse will they use to orbit buttons with zero isk rewards? |
Steve Floros
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Posted - 2009.06.10 20:39:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Steve Floros on 10/06/2009 20:39:51 I meant the story-line, not the Gall players. Any RPG angle would be preferable to just CCP doing nothing. |
Turelus
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.06.10 20:52:00 -
[65]
Gallente will get systems back soon just because the from what I have seen many of the bigger corps involved in taking those systems don't care any more or are leaving FW.
I don't speak for them or the 22nd but that is how it seems to me, I would like to see the Caldari hold on to them as long as possible but I can see the Gallente getting a system back soon.
I still think a reset is a moronic idea, besides many people enjoy being the underdog and fighting to regain all that ground may appeal to some people, I have posted back in this thread how the systems can be retaken now it's just down to the Gallente side to organise itself like we did.
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Steve Floros
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Posted - 2009.06.10 20:55:00 -
[66]
Still, people are leaving FW and have nothing to show for it... A permanent 'veteran' status on the character sheet, or a medal that won't dissapear when u change corp, would be cool
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.12 15:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: Steve Floros What excuse will the Gallentes have to continue fighting, if ALL their low-sec is taken?
RP answer: Guerrilla warfare baby! Le Resistance has already begun!
I'm interested in seeing if Caldari are still interested in FW now that their daily dose of PvE has been taken away. What excuse will they use to orbit buttons with zero isk rewards?
Rewards are great in defence plexing, but you never realized how to made isk out of them. |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.12 15:49:00 -
[68]
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz Since the frogs won't do anything but docking games and gate camps, make occupancy mean something. Put Sentry Guns at gates/stations that are Occupying Force friendly. And will fire on enemy militia reagrdless of their faction standing.
Tada, you squish lame docking games and gate camps in emnemy systems and you make there a point to occupancy
Who is this guy? I know he's not pervs cause they would post with their main with no fear. He's not CAIN cause lets be honest those guys are pros. SO I'M LOOKING AT YOU 22nd????
His name is lol though. Sun from Sun Tzu and Clausewitz from Clausewitz, really ... what's he trying to prove. :) |
GBlair
Caldari State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 18:57:00 -
[69]
Said it before and I'll say it again: The Galls are only outnumbered if they can't get more than 200-250 members online at a time.
So someone in Gallente militia tell us (roughly) how many players are in channel at a time, so we can end this once and for all. |
Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.06.12 19:03:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre on 12/06/2009 19:05:28
Originally by: GBlair Said it before and I'll say it again: The Galls are only outnumbered if they can't get more than 200-250 members online at a time.
So someone in Gallente militia tell us (roughly) how many players are in channel at a time, so we can end this once and for all.
Currently, at 2000 on a Friday Evening (Euro Prime Time), we have 127 in the Main Gallente Militia Channel. Roughly how many in the Caldari one? |
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Veebora
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.15 03:51:00 -
[71]
Who cares for FW anyway, this is just a good place to find PVP.
If CCP is giving a sh.i.t to it, why should we care?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
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Posted - 2009.06.15 07:19:00 -
[72]
Hmph - maybe the war is over, and the blasted squid ****s can declare victory.
And nobody will notice.
Those in Gallente FW who still care can become an resistance underground, a vichy Gallente empire, with secret agents, hidden stations.... ahh - content.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.06.16 03:24:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre on 12/06/2009 19:05:28
Originally by: GBlair Said it before and I'll say it again: The Galls are only outnumbered if they can't get more than 200-250 members online at a time.
So someone in Gallente militia tell us (roughly) how many players are in channel at a time, so we can end this once and for all.
Currently, at 2000 on a Friday Evening (Euro Prime Time), we have 127 in the Main Gallente Militia Channel. Roughly how many in the Caldari one?
And 127 is high-end for us now, most I've seen in militia is maybe 150, down to about 70 at whatever the opposite of prime time is.
Regardless of imbalances in plexing it's bloody had to get more than 20-30 people coordinated at one time - most of the people in militia at any given time aren't paying attention to it |
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