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Is EVE lacking in carebear features?

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Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.09 10:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr This is for the industrialist, researcher and traders. As others have mentioned, those are PvP as well. Quote: I thought it was nice that CCP included a calculator in the game but it's as if they threw a bone at the carebears while preparing a feast for the PvPers. Manufacturing/Industry project management is non-existent without the use of external apps. Out of curiosity, what kind of tools are you claiming that the combat pilots get that the traders and industrialists do not? What is the pew-pew equivalent of a calculator? You seem to want to claim that there are tons of functions and tools included into the game that cater to pew-pew:ing, but none (or only a token few) for other paths, but I just don't see it. Combat pilots get… well, the new fitting screen, I suppose, and tactical overlay and… what else? The HP and cap meters on your ship that allows you to "manage" combat without counting the hit notifications in your head? Basically, not only is your premise about the distinction between game types in EVE completely misinformed; you make no useful case for the imbalance you claim exist. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Heroldyn	Posted - 2009.06.09 10:43:00 - [32] pew-pew equivalent of the calculator properply being something like heat(tm).
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.06.09 10:53:00 - [33] Shush, you're getting ~~The Sims In Space~~ ambulation at everybody elses expense, that's plenty.
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.09 11:37:00 - [34] all you need in this game is a calculator to count how much ammo you have in your cargo
TehFailGuy	Posted - 2009.06.09 11:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Kyra Felann I do agree that it's kind of lame that you pretty much need external programs to be remotely efficient when it comes to manufacturing, researching, invention, etc. First thing I have to do when I wonder if something would be profitable is ALT+TAB out and start up EVEMEEP or some other program. You mean like EFT?
Discrodia Gallente Blood Red Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.09 11:56:00 - [36] There is no such thing as carebearing and making money except when you mission, don't pick up loot, and don't salvage. Otherwise all EVE is PvP, be it competing for rocks, selling lower than market to get the buyer, or shooting someone's jelly-filled egg.
Johan Sabbat R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.06.09 12:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Discrodia There is no such thing as carebearing and making money except when you mission, don't pick up loot, and don't salvage. Otherwise all EVE is PvP, be it competing for rocks, selling lower than market to get the buyer, or shooting someone's jelly-filled egg. I believe researching is also PVE, I don't believe there is a limit to the number of players using a particular R&D agent. We can probabily generalise this into carebearing is the use of a non-contested resource (ie agents).
Another Forum'Alt Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:01:00 - [38] Originally by: Armoured C what is carebearing there is only one thing in this game and that is pvp on every scale Where do ships come from then? BECAUSE OF FALCON. Guide to forum posting
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:08:00 - [39] Originally by: Another Forum'Alt Originally by: Armoured C what is carebearing there is only one thing in this game and that is pvp on every scale Where do ships come from then? Mostly from industrialist players competing versus other industrialist players to get your ISK in return for their products.
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Gun Gal most PVPers have industry alts,researchers, and manufactures. In fact, most of the major producers are indeed PVPers, they just have alts. This is why they should get rid of the 3 chars per account thing... This would make the mining and manufacturing careers lucrative by making those careers more specialized instead of it being an alt profession.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:32:00 - [41] It all boils down to ISK. You get blown up and podded....that's an ISK setback unless your clone wasn't updated. You lose in the marketplace...that's another ISK setback. The two things might feel different, as you may not feel violated losing a trade deal...and losing your ship is a visceral experience that packs more emotion, perhaps. But, in the end, it all boils down to ISK.
Utopiana	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:32:00 - [42] When adressing Player killers, it is important to not use words longer than five letters, if you do all they will see is wall of Text. Eve dont need more carebear content, but more content might bring more carebears to the game, what eve need is a more clear line of what is player killing zone and what is not. Atm low sec and outlaw space is empty, cause all those that complain that it's empty are busy with empire warfare aganinst random noobs.
eliminator2 Gallente Annihilate. Shock Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:32:00 - [43] but EVE was made for just all out pvp there is pvp everywere acept pvp or we kill you or grief you either way is cool :D
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:33:00 - [44] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr For those that argue that EVE is ALL PVP, this thread is not for you. This is for the industrialist, researcher and traders. Do you feel EVE has sufficient features to support your angle on the game? I thought it was nice that CCP included a calculator in the game but it's as if they threw a bone at the carebears while preparing a feast for the PvPers. Manufacturing/Industry project management is non-existent without the use of external apps. Does CCP ever plan on providing proper tools for the carebear crowd as they do for PvPers, or are we the bastard children of EVE? Personally, I am a PvP'er primarily, but I am also an industrialist, and I can understand what you mean. There is plenty in a profession sense, but I think high sec lacks a variety of missions. I don't know why they just don't open up the mission writing to the players. I'm sure they'd get more than enough submissions to give plenty of variety. Then it would just be down to the coding.
paddytehpyro Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.09 13:42:00 - [45] Why would CCP add tools into the game that exist out of game? All they would be doing is increasing the size of your EVE folder and the install. And we dont need more windows open in EVE. I just use a normal calculator on my desk instead of hunting for one ingame amid all the existing windows. And the great thing is, open office still works when the server is down
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.09 18:26:00 - [46] While I fully support all UI improvements, I feel that a lot of the assertions made in this thread are stupid. 1) If every single person who did nothing but PvE/industry activities (all the carebears) disappeared from the game, then PvPers would simply fill those voids with industry alts, or by skilling up their mains. Prices would rise, but despite your claims it would not be the end of the game. 2) Trading, Industry, and 99% of other activities in this game are PvP. No matter how much you try and distort the meaning, PvP = Player vs Player. Trading, manufacturing, and most other things in ALL games which support a free market are PvP. If you wish to talk about combat-only PvP, then make that clear. Also, I would really appreciate some proper suggestions rather than just wild assertions of "PVP IS OVERPOWERED!!!!". As far as I can tell any improvements CCP make to the management system in terms of adding functionality would be redundant since they are already provided by out-of-game applications. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Steph Wing Gallente Chapel-Perilous Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2009.06.09 18:44:00 - [47] Originally by: Pilot Abilene So by your logic crafting items and playing the auction house in WOW is PvP too? Sorry but the whole market PvP argument is mute because just about every MMOs these days has a market and crafting system, maybe not as advanced as EVE's but they still operates under the same basic principals...producing something under cost or undercutting someone on the market is not PvP lol...you can do the same thing in most non PvP orientated MMOs, does that make them PvP games? I think not. So by your logic the arena and battlegrounds in WOW is PvP too? Sorry but the whole combat PvP argument is mute because just about every MMOs these days has a combat system, maybe not as advanced as EVE's but they still operates under the same basic principals...utilizing better equipment or developing character skills is not PvP lol...you can do the same thing in most non PvP orientated MMOs, does that make them PvP games? I think not.
KaarBaak Minmatar Squirrel Team	Posted - 2009.06.09 22:04:00 - [48] This is why EVE should have special event weekends For instance...From DT Saturday to DT Monday Concord is on holiday...all space is FFA. At the same time, all SP is accumulated at 2x speed, but only while out of station.
Bestofworst Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.09 22:31:00 - [49] Originally by: Pilot Abilene Originally by: Another Liberthas Originally by: Nooma K'Larr [ Yeah....and? So you try to beat the market price. And where's that price come from? Other players. You're competing with OTHER PLAYERS to sell your stuff. That's Player Vs Player right there. So by your logic crafting items and playing the auction house in WOW is PvP too? Sorry but the whole market PvP argument is mute because just about every MMOs these days has a market and crafting system, maybe not as advanced as EVE's but they still operates under the same basic principals...producing something under cost or undercutting someone on the market is not PvP lol...you can do the same thing in most non PvP orientated MMOs, does that make them PvP games? I think not. When I hit 380 or whatever the max was for Blacksmith on my server, I was one of only a few. And we constantly spam trade like "Don't buy from him he's a homo" and "Buy from me I got piece of candy too" and other stuff like that, and we would compete for customers. ---- My Music
Ambrosse Brutus	Posted - 2009.06.09 22:53:00 - [50] It seems many posts in this thread are lacking any logical thinking. Any activity in which a human controlled players is competing against another human controlled player is player versus player, so yes mining and trading are player versus player as you are competing with other players to mine the ore and to sell goods on the market. And despite some posters not being able to get their head around it the world of warcraft market is also pvp, I once bought the horde market out of silk cloth and marked it up at a higher price although was undercut by other players meaning I couldn't sell for the price I wanted, we were all competing with each other to get the sales so theres an example that the WOW market is player versus player. If you play this game without using the market at all and simply mine and gather all the materials yourself and build all your own equipment and exlusivly fight missions to gather you resources then you are playing the game PvE, although like others said if you enjoy playing that kind of game there are many other obvious mmorpgs that do it a lot better.
Tipz NexAstrum Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2009.06.09 23:09:00 - [51] Originally by: IVeige Midas or Quantum rise as the official name was supposed to be THE carebear expansion... The industrial expansion every carebear and their dogs was waiting for. But for some unknown reasons, CCP gave us the orca and thats about it. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the hell that means. Plenty of people whine about their industrial expansion getting nerfed, but nobody knows what they lost out on. Originally by: CCP Navigator People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order in these forums.
zenia starwalker Minmatar Merrill's Marauders Crimson Dragons	Posted - 2009.06.09 23:43:00 - [52] Originally by: Armoured C what is carebearing there is only one thing in this game and that is pvp on every scale hey hippoking wannabee, heres a news flash: -from CCP/EVE propaganda "No classes, no restrictions û players are not locked into a single path. Changing your career is as simple as learning new skills. All previously learned skills and abilities are still available to you. Limitless opportunities to excel û player corporations are always looking for another market mogul, savvy diplomat, skilled fighter, or ambitious miner. Advancement among your peers is limitless. Impact the Game World û Decisions you make have a rippling effect. Market prices, region control, and availability of resources all fluctuate and change based on player choices and behavior. Interact in a Truly Massive Game World - No dead areas, no ghost towns. Even the most remote regions of space see over 400 people pass through them every day. Active areas can be inhabited by thousands. Make your mark in a game world that is active and alive around the clock." So eve is not only about blowing up spaceships.
KaarBaak Minmatar Squirrel Team	Posted - 2009.06.10 01:16:00 - [53] Originally by: zenia starwalker Originally by: Armoured C what is carebearing there is only one thing in this game and that is pvp on every scale hey hippoking wannabee, heres a news flash: -from CCP/EVE propaganda "No classes, no restrictions û players are not locked into a single path. Changing your career is as simple as learning new skills. All previously learned skills and abilities are still available to you. Limitless opportunities to excel û player corporations are always looking for another market mogul, savvy diplomat, skilled fighter, or ambitious miner. Advancement among your peers is limitless. Impact the Game World û Decisions you make have a rippling effect. Market prices, region control, and availability of resources all fluctuate and change based on player choices and behavior. Interact in a Truly Massive Game World - No dead areas, no ghost towns. Even the most remote regions of space see over 400 people pass through them every day. Active areas can be inhabited by thousands. Make your mark in a game world that is active and alive around the clock." So eve is not only about blowing up spaceships. But it is only about PvP. KB
Vaneshi SnowCrash	Posted - 2009.06.10 03:29:00 - [54] Carebear feature.... tricky. I'm of the opinion that whilst missioning is not strickly PvP the ultimate hauling of stuff to a trade/mission hub to sell is. But moving on. I'd like to see the production interface spruced up a bit. Perhaps percentage complete bars as well as time remaining, we have a similar thing on the skill sheet after all. Just graphical tweaks. Now belts... I think the number of belts in any given system should be dropped to 2. But those 2 should be absolutley massive, ringing the system with random warp in points depending on depletion level. shrug probably wouldn't work. Missions, the interface, the content, it needs an overhaul. Rail Ravens spring to mind as an example. More agents, yes. Some in lowsec. Yes (see, I said it, L4 agents appearing in lowsec). Keep the existing mission hubs. Naturally. And who was smoking what when it came to L5 missions? It seems PvE is the bastard step child of EVE. I think it needs massive work as I see no reason why EVE can't have both strong PvP and PvE at the sametime; it shouldn't be one or the other.
theshadowduke	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:39:00 - [55] I tend to be of the opinion that production windows need spruced up. A clearer more concise manufacturing window like the new fitting window would be nice. The Agent interface needs an upgrade. Beyond that, I dunno.
Pilot Abilene	Posted - 2009.06.10 05:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Steph Wing Originally by: Pilot Abilene So by your logic crafting items and playing the auction house in WOW is PvP too? Sorry but the whole market PvP argument is mute because just about every MMOs these days has a market and crafting system, maybe not as advanced as EVE's but they still operates under the same basic principals...producing something under cost or undercutting someone on the market is not PvP lol...you can do the same thing in most non PvP orientated MMOs, does that make them PvP games? I think not. So by your logic the arena and battlegrounds in WOW is PvP too? Sorry but the whole combat PvP argument is mute because just about every MMOs these days has a combat system, maybe not as advanced as EVE's but they still operates under the same basic principals...utilizing better equipment or developing character skills is not PvP lol...you can do the same thing in most non PvP orientated MMOs, does that make them PvP games? I think not. PvP is derived from player killing...look it up if your not old enough to remember. So yeah even WOWs battlegrounds are closer to PvP than undercutting someone on the market. Utilizing better equipment and developing character skills is part of PvP...you didn't actually read what you typed did you, just thought you would try to be witty yeah? Maybe come back when you can think for yourself. Oh and btw I don't support the OP in any way, in fact I don't like the drivel they post at all. I just popped in to see the flames then saw ppl talking about market PvP and whatnot. I'm just calling ppl out on the fact that they think any player interaction in an MMO can be labeled PvP... that's more like Player vs Economy. EVE already has a rich and diverse combat world that adheres to the true PvP label and that's all that really needs to be said. Oh and for the ppl that still won't get it sure I could label every interaction with a player in a game PvP which is convoluted at best. PvP = player killing, pure and simple.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.10 05:36:00 - [57] I like some of the ideas mention for mission improvements in the recent dev blog, i.e. reducing the number of small ships and useless structures in mission areas. Furthermore I'd like to see some Sleeper-like AI changes such as: 1)Rats target drones that are outdamaging the ship in question(death to the AFK Domi runners) 2)Rats go after the weakest target around first(death to so-called 'ninja salvagers') 3)All rats carry web and scrams from L3 on(further assistance to the above) Beyond that I want an umbrella to shield me from all the tears that would flow as a result of the above.
Kat Bandeis Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.10 06:28:00 - [58] If I wanted to waste 10 minutes of my life I'd probably read this thread. But I don't so I won't. Get a life. Get a date. Get laid. Nuff said.
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.10 06:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Kat Bandeis If I wanted to waste 10 minutes of my life I'd probably read this thread. But I don't so I won't. Get a life. Get a date. Get laid. Nuff said. Ironically you took the time to reply. Been laid lately?
Squat Hardpeck	Posted - 2009.06.10 07:21:00 - [60] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: Kat Bandeis If I wanted to waste 10 minutes of my life I'd probably read this thread. But I don't so I won't. Get a life. Get a date. Get laid. Nuff said. Ironically you took the time to reply. Been laid lately? Yes, it was a wonderful evening you can thank him for that. 10 orgasms!

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