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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:07:00 -
[1]
Why is it that old hatreds are always dredged up when surely we all should turn our attention away from the past and look to the future.
When will the Empires realise it is foolish to ignore the rich asteroid fields of deep space. The Alliances have grown stronger and have claimed all that should be free to all. Do the Gallente stop the Caldari from mining in Luminaire, No! So why should citizens of the empires not be allowed access to deep space because an Alliance says so. Surely it is time for expansion into these realms. The Alliance forces would be no match for the Gallente, Amarrian, Caldari and Minmatar fleets.
At least capture of certain routes into the outer regions is not out of the question. It is time that we pestered the governments to take action. Maybe it is because the upper echelons of our societies have 'arrangements' with these Alliances to gain their minerals cheaply while us lesser mortals have to make do with the exorbitant prices we have to pay. Our governments have grown idle and fat while we run the risks everyday (and house the homeless in our hangars).
Hassle your local representatives to take action and maybe we can see a future where we can build new homes and lives out in the new territories of deep space. I know we do not fear the risks as it will surely be dangerous but there must be a new dawn of imperial expansion for all our benefit.
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:07:00 -
[2]
Why is it that old hatreds are always dredged up when surely we all should turn our attention away from the past and look to the future.
When will the Empires realise it is foolish to ignore the rich asteroid fields of deep space. The Alliances have grown stronger and have claimed all that should be free to all. Do the Gallente stop the Caldari from mining in Luminaire, No! So why should citizens of the empires not be allowed access to deep space because an Alliance says so. Surely it is time for expansion into these realms. The Alliance forces would be no match for the Gallente, Amarrian, Caldari and Minmatar fleets.
At least capture of certain routes into the outer regions is not out of the question. It is time that we pestered the governments to take action. Maybe it is because the upper echelons of our societies have 'arrangements' with these Alliances to gain their minerals cheaply while us lesser mortals have to make do with the exorbitant prices we have to pay. Our governments have grown idle and fat while we run the risks everyday (and house the homeless in our hangars).
Hassle your local representatives to take action and maybe we can see a future where we can build new homes and lives out in the new territories of deep space. I know we do not fear the risks as it will surely be dangerous but there must be a new dawn of imperial expansion for all our benefit.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:09:00 -
[3]
It's probably more a case of not wanting to go where the Sarpati family, the Blood Raiders, the Gurista and Sansha's Nation have their key strongholds .
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:09:00 -
[4]
It's probably more a case of not wanting to go where the Sarpati family, the Blood Raiders, the Gurista and Sansha's Nation have their key strongholds .
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Discorporation It's probably more a case of not wanting to go where the Sarpati family, the Blood Raiders, the Gurista and Sansha's Nation have their key strongholds .
Probably proves my point further. These factions continue to operate because of corruption in our governments. Then again it will not be a Gurista operative that will tell you to leave deep space but a member of the residing Alliance. Maybe the factions have a greater tolerance than the Alliances because they have a stronger relationship with our governments.
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Discorporation It's probably more a case of not wanting to go where the Sarpati family, the Blood Raiders, the Gurista and Sansha's Nation have their key strongholds .
Probably proves my point further. These factions continue to operate because of corruption in our governments. Then again it will not be a Gurista operative that will tell you to leave deep space but a member of the residing Alliance. Maybe the factions have a greater tolerance than the Alliances because they have a stronger relationship with our governments.
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Psychomar
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:35:00 -
[7]
You can mine there I do alot. The key is to watch local on your scanner and have plenty of escape routes if the alliances show up.
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Psychomar
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:35:00 -
[8]
You can mine there I do alot. The key is to watch local on your scanner and have plenty of escape routes if the alliances show up.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Arvon Emberlay
Probably proves my point further. These factions continue to operate because of corruption in our governments. Then again it will not be a Gurista operative that will tell you to leave deep space but a member of the residing Alliance. Maybe the factions have a greater tolerance than the Alliances because they have a stronger relationship with our governments.
Those factions continue to exist because the Empires have other things to worry about .
Has got nothing to do with governments
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Arvon Emberlay
Probably proves my point further. These factions continue to operate because of corruption in our governments. Then again it will not be a Gurista operative that will tell you to leave deep space but a member of the residing Alliance. Maybe the factions have a greater tolerance than the Alliances because they have a stronger relationship with our governments.
Those factions continue to exist because the Empires have other things to worry about .
Has got nothing to do with governments
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: Arvon Emberlay
Probably proves my point further. These factions continue to operate because of corruption in our governments. Then again it will not be a Gurista operative that will tell you to leave deep space but a member of the residing Alliance. Maybe the factions have a greater tolerance than the Alliances because they have a stronger relationship with our governments.
Those factions continue to exist because the Empires have other things to worry about .
Has got nothing to do with governments
Have to disagree with you on that. Deep space holds the biggest riches in the Galaxy. I think history proves that governments and corporations will do anything to gain the biggest riches and profit. The people with power must already be getting these riches through other means or we would see Empire bases in deep space now.
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: Arvon Emberlay
Probably proves my point further. These factions continue to operate because of corruption in our governments. Then again it will not be a Gurista operative that will tell you to leave deep space but a member of the residing Alliance. Maybe the factions have a greater tolerance than the Alliances because they have a stronger relationship with our governments.
Those factions continue to exist because the Empires have other things to worry about .
Has got nothing to do with governments
Have to disagree with you on that. Deep space holds the biggest riches in the Galaxy. I think history proves that governments and corporations will do anything to gain the biggest riches and profit. The people with power must already be getting these riches through other means or we would see Empire bases in deep space now.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:56:00 -
[13]
I disagree
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.09.15 14:56:00 -
[14]
I disagree
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Jonathan Wark
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Posted - 2004.09.15 15:05:00 -
[15]
You act like those factions have absolutely no ties to Empire space. If you believe this you are more na´ve than most people I have met. Do you seriously believe that there are not kickbacks? Can you tell me with a serious face that individuals in the Empires are not getting rich off of the current situation? No my friend the Empires have as much to loose from your idea as they have to gain. The status quo always favors those in power.
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Jonathan Wark
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Posted - 2004.09.15 15:05:00 -
[16]
You act like those factions have absolutely no ties to Empire space. If you believe this you are more na´ve than most people I have met. Do you seriously believe that there are not kickbacks? Can you tell me with a serious face that individuals in the Empires are not getting rich off of the current situation? No my friend the Empires have as much to loose from your idea as they have to gain. The status quo always favors those in power.
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Joel Pilkington
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Posted - 2004.09.15 15:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jonathan Wark You act like those factions have absolutely no ties to Empire space. If you believe this you are more na´ve than most people I have met. Do you seriously believe that there are not kickbacks? Can you tell me with a serious face that individuals in the Empires are not getting rich off of the current situation?
Quite right. The ones getting rich are those "guarding" Empire assets for outer space alliances. Those guarding "alliance assets" outside of Empire space are only getting bloody noses.
We all like to ignore bloody noses. They mess up the carpeting. Do not enter.
Incidentally, Arvon, you are free to travel anywhere, provided you have the bigger gun. And use it. Discorporation may be able to confirm that such is his organization's standard policy. Quite valid, too.
Joel Pilkington
=== The Pilkington Special Deal™ === |
Joel Pilkington
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Posted - 2004.09.15 15:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jonathan Wark You act like those factions have absolutely no ties to Empire space. If you believe this you are more na´ve than most people I have met. Do you seriously believe that there are not kickbacks? Can you tell me with a serious face that individuals in the Empires are not getting rich off of the current situation?
Quite right. The ones getting rich are those "guarding" Empire assets for outer space alliances. Those guarding "alliance assets" outside of Empire space are only getting bloody noses.
We all like to ignore bloody noses. They mess up the carpeting. Do not enter.
Incidentally, Arvon, you are free to travel anywhere, provided you have the bigger gun. And use it. Discorporation may be able to confirm that such is his organization's standard policy. Quite valid, too.
Joel Pilkington
=== The Pilkington Special Deal™ === |
Starquinia
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Posted - 2004.09.15 15:17:00 -
[19]
"Why do the Empires ignore the Alliances"
Well, lets see, there are what 50,000 pilots in space? Against a population of 100's of billions in each of the empires?
Don't kid yourself, the Empires ignore us because we are insignificant. When we are noticed it is simply to furnish entertainment to the masses. -------------------------------------- Proud bearer of the Khumaak
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Starquinia
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Posted - 2004.09.15 15:17:00 -
[20]
"Why do the Empires ignore the Alliances"
Well, lets see, there are what 50,000 pilots in space? Against a population of 100's of billions in each of the empires?
Don't kid yourself, the Empires ignore us because we are insignificant. When we are noticed it is simply to furnish entertainment to the masses. -------------------------------------- Proud bearer of the Khumaak
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 16:03:00 -
[21]
I think I must have not explained myself very well.
I am complaining of corruption in our government systems, which is the cause of non-expansion into deep space. People lower down in society's ladder (such as my self) feel that the ruling bodies have little care for our needs. We will continue to buy over-priced minerals while the fat cats continue to make a large profit. I believe that the factions and alliances have vested interests in Empire space and in return for the security of these interests they allow certain organisations and governmental bodies certain benefits.
I think we should force our governments to make inroads into deep space so that not only the few will benefit but we will all benefit.
It is also a point of debate that the insurance companies encourage the current state of play as they make a hefty profit from Alliance wars.
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 16:03:00 -
[22]
I think I must have not explained myself very well.
I am complaining of corruption in our government systems, which is the cause of non-expansion into deep space. People lower down in society's ladder (such as my self) feel that the ruling bodies have little care for our needs. We will continue to buy over-priced minerals while the fat cats continue to make a large profit. I believe that the factions and alliances have vested interests in Empire space and in return for the security of these interests they allow certain organisations and governmental bodies certain benefits.
I think we should force our governments to make inroads into deep space so that not only the few will benefit but we will all benefit.
It is also a point of debate that the insurance companies encourage the current state of play as they make a hefty profit from Alliance wars.
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 16:09:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Arvon Emberlay on 15/09/2004 16:16:06
Originally by: Joel Pilkington Incidentally, Arvon, you are free to travel anywhere, provided you have the bigger gun. And use it. Discorporation may be able to confirm that such is his organization's standard policy. Quite valid, too.
Sadly that is the truth. This means for some of us we will never have a gun big enough. And if your guns are based 5 jumps away and mine are based 30 jumps away then I think we know who will win.
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 16:09:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Arvon Emberlay on 15/09/2004 16:16:06
Originally by: Joel Pilkington Incidentally, Arvon, you are free to travel anywhere, provided you have the bigger gun. And use it. Discorporation may be able to confirm that such is his organization's standard policy. Quite valid, too.
Sadly that is the truth. This means for some of us we will never have a gun big enough. And if your guns are based 5 jumps away and mine are based 30 jumps away then I think we know who will win.
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General Darkwater
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Posted - 2004.09.15 16:46:00 -
[25]
1: The goverments do not ignore us, we provide service to the regions of so called Empire space. We provide you with the zydribne and the rare modules you need in order to build your ships.
2: On top of that we keep your market forces from going into inflation. We made our claim, which is ours by right to make. We have resources to sell and trade with, which is our soveriegn right to sell at what ever price we deem fair for our efforts. If you all came in and mined here, then your mineral market would eventually collapse, the isk would devalue and the governments and concord that protect you would collapse and chaos would rule.
3: the Sansha and pirate factions are put into order by us, the people of the alliances becasue neither government or Concord can spare the manpower to do so. We rtake the risks for your rare minerals, and wage an endless war against the strong remants of the factions that remain here.
4: Do we grow rich of this? Yes. It's an economic fact that people grow rich for their efforts. I could have sat behind empire space and groaned and moande that I didnt get my fair slice because I didnt work for it. But I got of my ass, took the reigns, joined a corp and became a member of the elite. I worked hard for my isk, put ship and life on the line. It's a dangerous buisiness in 0.0 space, so expect the costs to be high and the profit margins to be higher.
---------------------------------------------- To live is to fight To fight is to die Die in a fight is to have lived and died well |
General Darkwater
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Posted - 2004.09.15 16:46:00 -
[26]
1: The goverments do not ignore us, we provide service to the regions of so called Empire space. We provide you with the zydribne and the rare modules you need in order to build your ships.
2: On top of that we keep your market forces from going into inflation. We made our claim, which is ours by right to make. We have resources to sell and trade with, which is our soveriegn right to sell at what ever price we deem fair for our efforts. If you all came in and mined here, then your mineral market would eventually collapse, the isk would devalue and the governments and concord that protect you would collapse and chaos would rule.
3: the Sansha and pirate factions are put into order by us, the people of the alliances becasue neither government or Concord can spare the manpower to do so. We rtake the risks for your rare minerals, and wage an endless war against the strong remants of the factions that remain here.
4: Do we grow rich of this? Yes. It's an economic fact that people grow rich for their efforts. I could have sat behind empire space and groaned and moande that I didnt get my fair slice because I didnt work for it. But I got of my ass, took the reigns, joined a corp and became a member of the elite. I worked hard for my isk, put ship and life on the line. It's a dangerous buisiness in 0.0 space, so expect the costs to be high and the profit margins to be higher.
---------------------------------------------- To live is to fight To fight is to die Die in a fight is to have lived and died well |
Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 18:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: General Darkwater 1: The goverments do not ignore us, we provide service to the regions of so called Empire space. We provide you with the zydribne and the rare modules you need in order to build your ships.
2: On top of that we keep your market forces from going into inflation. We made our claim, which is ours by right to make. We have resources to sell and trade with, which is our soveriegn right to sell at what ever price we deem fair for our efforts. If you all came in and mined here, then your mineral market would eventually collapse, the isk would devalue and the governments and concord that protect you would collapse and chaos would rule.
3: the Sansha and pirate factions are put into order by us, the people of the alliances becasue neither government or Concord can spare the manpower to do so. We rtake the risks for your rare minerals, and wage an endless war against the strong remants of the factions that remain here.
4: Do we grow rich of this? Yes. It's an economic fact that people grow rich for their efforts. I could have sat behind empire space and groaned and moande that I didnt get my fair slice because I didnt work for it. But I got of my ass, took the reigns, joined a corp and became a member of the elite. I worked hard for my isk, put ship and life on the line. It's a dangerous buisiness in 0.0 space, so expect the costs to be high and the profit margins to be higher.
Such a typical reaction from an Alliance member. I think you summed it up by using the word Elite. You see yourself as the Elite and wish to stop others joining you unless they play by your rules.
You make it sound you are doing us all a favour. Don't you think that there are pilots in Empire who don't want to fight the powerful forces of the factions out there, don't you think there are pilots who want to mine some good ore for a change and don't you think there are pilots who want to feel the lonely silence of deep space. They may not want to experience these things all the time but they want to experience them. In essence the alliances are depriving other people.
The Alliances dictate and for all the failings of the Empires and their corrupt governments they don't dictate where you can and can't go.
You want to know what is more dangerous than what you think is such a great undertaking as a person in your position? It is braving deep space with alliance members, pirate faction members and freelancing rogues breathing down your neck with no nearby station to use as a bolt hole. And if policing the factions is so difficult why not allow more pilots in your space to help out instead of charging them an entry fee. The Empires hire outside help so why not the Alliances.
The Alliances protect their interests for one reason only, greed! And it is people like you forcing us to sit behind empire space and no one else. As I said we brave greater risks than you by even entering deep space.
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Arvon Emberlay
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Posted - 2004.09.15 18:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: General Darkwater 1: The goverments do not ignore us, we provide service to the regions of so called Empire space. We provide you with the zydribne and the rare modules you need in order to build your ships.
2: On top of that we keep your market forces from going into inflation. We made our claim, which is ours by right to make. We have resources to sell and trade with, which is our soveriegn right to sell at what ever price we deem fair for our efforts. If you all came in and mined here, then your mineral market would eventually collapse, the isk would devalue and the governments and concord that protect you would collapse and chaos would rule.
3: the Sansha and pirate factions are put into order by us, the people of the alliances becasue neither government or Concord can spare the manpower to do so. We rtake the risks for your rare minerals, and wage an endless war against the strong remants of the factions that remain here.
4: Do we grow rich of this? Yes. It's an economic fact that people grow rich for their efforts. I could have sat behind empire space and groaned and moande that I didnt get my fair slice because I didnt work for it. But I got of my ass, took the reigns, joined a corp and became a member of the elite. I worked hard for my isk, put ship and life on the line. It's a dangerous buisiness in 0.0 space, so expect the costs to be high and the profit margins to be higher.
Such a typical reaction from an Alliance member. I think you summed it up by using the word Elite. You see yourself as the Elite and wish to stop others joining you unless they play by your rules.
You make it sound you are doing us all a favour. Don't you think that there are pilots in Empire who don't want to fight the powerful forces of the factions out there, don't you think there are pilots who want to mine some good ore for a change and don't you think there are pilots who want to feel the lonely silence of deep space. They may not want to experience these things all the time but they want to experience them. In essence the alliances are depriving other people.
The Alliances dictate and for all the failings of the Empires and their corrupt governments they don't dictate where you can and can't go.
You want to know what is more dangerous than what you think is such a great undertaking as a person in your position? It is braving deep space with alliance members, pirate faction members and freelancing rogues breathing down your neck with no nearby station to use as a bolt hole. And if policing the factions is so difficult why not allow more pilots in your space to help out instead of charging them an entry fee. The Empires hire outside help so why not the Alliances.
The Alliances protect their interests for one reason only, greed! And it is people like you forcing us to sit behind empire space and no one else. As I said we brave greater risks than you by even entering deep space.
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Jonathan Wark
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Posted - 2004.09.15 18:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Jonathan Wark on 15/09/2004 18:41:13 Arvon
I guess I donÆt understand what you want then. What is your grand plan, your scheme for setting these ôWrongsö right? Do you want the empires to organize some sort of onslaught to clean out the low security sections of space? To be replaced by what exactly, the empires and concord? DonÆt you think that if the Empires had the ability, personnel, or even the desire to do this it would have been done already? No what it sounds like you want is for the Empires and Concord to clean out low security space so you can go in and take the place of these factions. Would you set this space up for all to come and reap the benefits? Perhaps at first but power and money will corrupt over time and soon those who began with altruism will end as despots.
And letÆs examine one specific aspect of this ôProblem.ö You yourself accuse the empires of corruption. For the most part I think it obvious that the empire and many people in these factions are in league together. Do the empires deny members of these factions, who have positive security status, the ability to trade in empire space? No of course not because that would cut into the profit of the empires. As I tried to point out before, there is mutual benefit for the system to continue on as it is now. Why would the empires dismantle a system that brings them profit? And what assurances would the empires have that any new group using low sec space would be as profitable as the current factions?
Again there is no reason for the empires to change the status quo. If however you find that for your own good a change in the status quo is needed then I say to you, do not look to others to do your dirty work. Get up and take what you want if you have the strength to do so. Just be aware that you will make enemies not only of the factions but also of the many well-connected people in the empire that rely on the factions money.
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Jonathan Wark
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Posted - 2004.09.15 18:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Jonathan Wark on 15/09/2004 18:41:13 Arvon
I guess I donÆt understand what you want then. What is your grand plan, your scheme for setting these ôWrongsö right? Do you want the empires to organize some sort of onslaught to clean out the low security sections of space? To be replaced by what exactly, the empires and concord? DonÆt you think that if the Empires had the ability, personnel, or even the desire to do this it would have been done already? No what it sounds like you want is for the Empires and Concord to clean out low security space so you can go in and take the place of these factions. Would you set this space up for all to come and reap the benefits? Perhaps at first but power and money will corrupt over time and soon those who began with altruism will end as despots.
And letÆs examine one specific aspect of this ôProblem.ö You yourself accuse the empires of corruption. For the most part I think it obvious that the empire and many people in these factions are in league together. Do the empires deny members of these factions, who have positive security status, the ability to trade in empire space? No of course not because that would cut into the profit of the empires. As I tried to point out before, there is mutual benefit for the system to continue on as it is now. Why would the empires dismantle a system that brings them profit? And what assurances would the empires have that any new group using low sec space would be as profitable as the current factions?
Again there is no reason for the empires to change the status quo. If however you find that for your own good a change in the status quo is needed then I say to you, do not look to others to do your dirty work. Get up and take what you want if you have the strength to do so. Just be aware that you will make enemies not only of the factions but also of the many well-connected people in the empire that rely on the factions money.
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