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Arena's for or against, and why?

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SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.10 21:45:00 - [1] Now yes I understand this has been brought up before.... However i've seen a lot of support for an idea such as this in countless threads that have nothing to do with arena's. Seem like a lot of folks would like something this, considering the state of pvp, or some would say BvB. Lets face it to get any sort of "smaller" engagement is tough these days. It takes considerable time as a "pirate" to track peeps down anywhere besides a gate, or the like. If you're not a pirate, but just want to find a small engagement with some buddies.... well what WH space is best now? But still can be troubling to find a fight. Here's the problem as of now I have time on my hands as can be witnessed by the trolling I partake in here. However in a few days things will go back to normal, and my time will diminish. I won't have hours to spend looking for a fight to have a good time. And I'd rather not be zerged 50-1. So that means back to ole mission grind... An arena type system in low sec could help folks out like me who 1. Have less time. 2. Like "small" pvp. 3. Do not belong to a large alliance capable of supporting such events. I understand many don't want such a thing because they view it as "wowish" thus tarnishing their beloved eve mentality. I disagree as EVE will never be like wow. Or destroy 0.0 PVP..... I couldn't say. Though EVE is about options, this would just be another one to pursue. Also i'm aware that I'm going to get the "FIX THE BUGS BEFORE NEW STUFFS"... im not saying make this happen now I agree with that. What I'm trying to see is a consensus on such a thing, and why people are for or against what seems to be a more popular idea these days. Have fun debating.
Kulmid THE SPLASH NAVY	Posted - 2009.06.10 21:48:00 - [2] First in another "we need an arena" thread.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.10 21:51:00 - [3] Edited by: baltec1 on 10/06/2009 21:53:18 In EVE you must work for your kills. Also, when they added Restus to SWG it killed off just about all of the other pvp.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:01:00 - [4] Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 10/06/2009 21:53:18 In EVE you must work for your kills. Also, when they added Restus to SWG it killed off just about all of the other pvp. You're right some people love the "thrill" of the hunt. But it seems like most people complain of 1 of 2 thing in eve pvp now. 1. Blob/POS turkey shoot. 2. Where the F#$k is everyone? Further more if you want to cite games in which something like this has had a negative affect on "other pvp" I can cite games where it had no affect or help it.... two sides to every coin, and all games are different from one another. I've even seen dev support in some of the other threads.... I'm just trying to see why some people are adamant against such an idea. Are they just being "eve republicans" as it were and don't want major change. Or would it on fact be bad for the game overall?
Grarr Dexx Amarr Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:03:00 - [5] No.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:04:00 - [6] If you want to fight your friends, you could: opt to join the same player corporation loot each other's cans like everyone else does find a quiet nullsec system in NRDS space pop into wormhole space Arenas killed the fun of PvP in every game that they've been introduced into. A better solution would be to modify current mechanics to provide disincentives to blobbing. Various solutions have been suggested including degrading the accuracy of weapons after more than N ships have the target locked, etc. Try contributing to those threads instead. I do agree with you that there needs to be some mechanism to help people find PvP fights that aren't blobfests. "Arenas" is not that solution.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:05:00 - [7] Don't like them, but if the losses are real and there are no rewards given by CCP to encourage it, why not. That why not comes because, if a identical system was organized by the players, no one would be *****ing and moaning about it. It would basicly be just a tool to orginize fights between players and nothing more. There would be some negative effects for world PvP, but those could be mitigated by develping the world combat to be more varied and plentiful. There have been bad experiences in other MMOs with arenas and their effect on world PvP, but a major factor in those have been, that the system specificly rewarded arena combat. If you don't put in those rewards, the effects should also be less severe. So in conclusion, personally I'm not that interested, but it can be added to increase the PvP on demand aspect and to allow easier player made tournaments. Losses have to be real and no artificial rewards. Player given rewards and betting are just fine. Basicly it shoud only be a tool, that the players can easily organise fights with. The focus of PvP devopment should stay in world PvP.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:06:00 - [8] PvP in eve is not hard to find at all. As I keep on saying, I hunt for targets in a badger, and if a badger is getting more action than you then you are doing something very wrong.
Frozen Fallout Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:10:00 - [9] Im all for it... However I think that players need to do this not CCP. If you would take a look at this post http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1093725 you will see that players are doing this.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:27:00 - [10] red vs blue cooperations had the right idea always at war or join FW if you say you cant find a target there in a large region of space your doing it wrong :) OFFLINE[ONLINE]

Eylike Anel	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:40:00 - [11] Edited by: Eylike Anel on 10/06/2009 22:41:00 Originally by: SpaceSquirrels An arena type system in low sec could help folks out like me who 1. Have less time. 2. Like "small" pvp. 3. Do not belong to a large alliance capable of supporting such events. I understand many don't want such a thing because they view it as "wowish" thus tarnishing their beloved eve mentality. I disagree as EVE will never be like wow. Or destroy 0.0 PVP..... I couldn't say. Though EVE is about options, this would just be another one to pursue. Isn't this the sort of thing that Faction Warfare was meant for? At least when I was doing it that was my experience. Edit: Bah, beaten to the punch
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:41:00 - [12] Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 10/06/2009 21:53:18 In EVE you must work for your kills. Also, when they added Restus to SWG it killed off just about all of the other pvp. bring up SWG... SOE effectively killed off a money printing machine by being idiots and their NGE, why does it not surprise you that they botched that too I'd love some sort of arena... I try it in FW finding small plexes to get Frig on Frig fights... but I still have to jump through all the blobbing gate camps to get there. Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:44:00 - [13] FW you say you looking for kills there is your answer nub running low sec plexes what more could you want apart from them to physically come to you waiting to die ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? OFFLINE[ONLINE]
VoiceInTheDesert Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.06.10 23:19:00 - [14] Edited by: VoiceInTheDesert on 10/06/2009 23:23:47 Edited by: VoiceInTheDesert on 10/06/2009 23:21:30 I don't think setting up Arenas is the end of the world (in game), but I do think that it would have to be more of a "matchmaker" type thing than anything. How it should be set up: +A system could be set up to facilitate all kinds of fights (fleet, 1v1, small team, etc) and make sure they are carried out fairly (people setting up a fight can limit the number of ships/point value of ships involved in said fight). +Ship loses are real +There is no extra incentive to fight, you get the loot from the enemy ship and that's it just like regular pvp. Reasons this will not kill other forms of pvp: People will still want a "sure thing" in the form of blobs. Less risk when the odds aren't fair, so people will not completely abandon the arena that gives them easier kms. Loot drops off a pvp ship isn't much to live on, whereas the loots from the unsuspecting carebear/hauler/whatever can give the lucky pilot a year's worth of isk. *You can't hold space in the arena...you will still have to patrol your space to hold it and you will still have to attack space to take it. This idea works and if anything, I think it makes MORE people want to pvp since they can be sure it will be in a "fair" environment. The purests will say gbtw and while I normally agree with them, this is one area where they are wrong. This could help the game and I would love to see it implemented. If however, the arena is lossless or "awards" are given for participation beyond the normal loot, then it will become wow in space. So to anyone who is suggesting that....gtfo. EDIT: FW does not fill this role atm. Sure, you can go gank nubs flying destroyers...but there's no fun in that. It would be GREAT to be able to have your own alliance tournament any time you want. It would be awesome to be able to have a 1v1 BS fight whenever you want. Sure, I could do the can thing, but if two people across the galaxy both want to fight a 1v1BS fight and the only thing keeping them from doing so is the fact that they are in the wrong system, wtf can't this kind of a system be implemented to facilitate that fight? All this system would do is make MORE fights happen, MORE ships explode, MORE resources be mined and MORE pilots doing pvp. I fail to see a downside. And before anyone says "that's what sisi is for," no it is not. Sisi is buggy, lacks regular skill mirrors and has about 400 people on it at any given time. It's a test server, not an arena.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.11 05:05:00 - [15] I don't buy the "it will end pvp" argument personally. 0.0 will still have sov wars. It might impact some low sec fighting, but it's barren out yonder anyway. Might work to say have it on a once a week basis or some such... If anything I believe it would encourage things as more high sec types would be willing to join as it would be even in terms of numbers and allowed ship classes. People are right you can find targets in eve if you try.... hell I could make uber suicide machines in high sec all day long. My point was the amount of time it takes to find a favorable target to engage. (I dont mean a one sided fight) I mean something not 10-1 50-10 etc. FW is currently 50 dudes hanging on top of a gate which ever side has the most people on at that time. Or the other side doesnt feel like playing so you fly around a plex or 5. I think it would help the game out having a pvp system that is a bit more casual friendly. Not everyone has the time to do everything required for 0.0 pvp all the time. Or wants to deal with 0.0 attitudes in alliances/corps.
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.06.11 05:14:00 - [16] I just can't see how an Arena system would be worth the time it would take CCP to make one. All the mechanics are there for you to do it yourself. If you want to start some kind of highsec Arena league just do it.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.06.11 05:19:00 - [17] It's already available, it is called Sisi. You can duel and duel and fly whatever you want there all day. Game regulated arena's on Tranquility? Gtfo with that carebear wow trash.
Maisha Libo Caldari Stupid Piwats Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2009.06.11 05:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Frozen Fallout Im all for it... However I think that players need to do this not CCP. If you would take a look at this post http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1093725 you will see that players are doing this. thank you frozen you beat me to it. I think this piece of work is one of the most beautiful player ideas ever created. PvP is without a doubt the greatest aspect of EVE. every part of it. an arena would be good, but would take out a lot of the EVE world if it were somewhere you go to do it. it would have to be something that you would still your ship in, etc. the losses would have to be real. I think this idea here once polished will be almost perfect. it just needs a few things like open challenges.
Bad Harlequin Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.11 05:33:00 - [19]
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Maisha Libo I think this piece of work is one of the most beautiful player ideas ever created. <3

NeoTheo Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:20:00 - [21] drop a can, lewt can, fight. you have a arena. NO TO ANY KINDA OF WOW / QUAKE / SWG GHEYNESS. Dark Materials
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:53:00 - [22] First, A player solution to this is untenable. As soon as someone sets up a place and a time for people to come compete, you can be as assured as the sun will rise in the morning that Goons will be there ruin the experience for everyone. I mean, heck, it's IN their stated goals in EVE; to ruin the experience for as many people as possible. So without an actual developer-added game mechanic that allows no interference or at least a concord response to interference, then any player or group of players attempting to set this up will simply fail. In fact, it was already tried once. Some people set up two corps, I believe they were named red and blue and they were at permanent mutual war with each other... haven't heard of them in a long time now. Second, this would hardly destroy PVP in EVE. The "point" of the game at this point is to get as many capitals and titans on your side as possible and be on grid before your opponent who is also trying to get as many capitals and titans to whatever POS is being bashed at for the 5 billionth iteration. Introducing a solar system, a deep low sec solar system would be ideal, where there is an "arena" that is marked off by something like a huge warp bubble where solo players or teams can enter into combat would hardly destroy PVP. It would simply create a new class of "gladiator" players who fight to their explosive deaths for fame and blood money. Honestly, every industrialist in the game should be clamoring for this, cause every ship lost is another ship someone needs to buy. Maybe the carebear vote, which has destroyed PVP outside of the arena could actually help make this viable.
Doomed Predator The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Grarr Dexx No.
VoiceInTheDesert Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.06.11 18:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Vaal Erit It's already available, it is called Sisi. You can duel and duel and fly whatever you want there all day. Game regulated arena's on Tranquility? Gtfo with that carebear wow trash. Since you obviously didn't read anything but the OP, I'll restate what I already posted and you didn't seem to read. Sisi is NOT an arena. It's a test server. It's buggy, there's no real loses, mirrors are infrequent and there are about 400 people online. There's nothing to gain/lose and hardly anyone to fight. It's not fun. Not to mention, you're not on traquility when you're on sisi (obviously), so you can't go help alliances mates/allies/etc because you're busy playing on the test server just trying to play the game the way you want. Does that not seem messed up to anyone? That the TEST SERVER is the server most EVE "purests" tell people to go for pvp? A system that sets up and faciliatates REAL fights with REAL loses is not "carebear wow **," it's actually quite a bit more pvp "hardcore" as far as I'm concerned, cause you actually have to beat an evenly matched opponent. Seems to me that most pirates have gotten too used to easy ganks and blobs to appreciate a truly good fight. I'll restate this again as well: If people want to fight and simply can't see eachother cause they're no the same system, why the ** can't we just set up a system (read: arena) to facilitate those fights no matter WHERE YOU ARE? It seems stupid to me that if there are 30k pilots online and 1000 of them want to fight RIGHT NOW, we can't have a system to make that happen. The only possible result is more explosions, more pvp pilots, more ship replacements (strengthening the economy) and more fun. Where's the problem in that? It's simple and easy and as long as the loses are real, it's not going to "ruin" any of the "real" pvp. People will still want to control space/gank haulers/blob wts. Those forms of PVP will still exist and probably increase because more people will get into pvp through the use of arenas and then want to go out and become a pirate/nosec space holder/etc.
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:11:00 - [25] They should make areas where there is no Concord or gate guns. Killing people in those areas should not result in any sec status loss. People could go there and fight each other. We could call these new arenas 0.0.
iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:24:00 - [26] I don't see anything bad in it, those who don't like it don't have to use it. And if they say it will kill pvp then they admit that an arena is awesome while the rest of Eve pvp is crap. Or how else could the arena "kill" any other form of pvp ? It's important to keep it close to normal pvp though, that means if the ship dies in the arena fight, it's dead. And not like the devs originally planned it, where the fights are simulated with no ship loss. No loss of isk means no thrill, no adrenaline and everyone bringing officer fitted toys to fights - that's against the concept of Eve. Make it with real ship loss, add to it a betting system (like it was planned for the original version, where people can watch and put isk on the match), ranking, ladders, event-matches and it can be another nice feature for Eve, like OP said: another option for the players among many. My skills Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +8.57 / Gallente Federation -9.97
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:05:00 - [27] It was a dumb idea in WoW, and it's a much dumber idea in EvE. I suppose if they implemented some kind of arena simulator in WIS in the form of a video game within stations that you could play against other players it might fly, but the entire concept in EvE is that you learn things the hard way. I'd rather see them try and implement Mindclash in WIS though. If you want a duel, arrange it and head to lowsec and duke it out for real.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:21:00 - [28] One problem with putting an arena in eve and having team matches a bit like in a tournament is that it would probably be alot better and more fun then real eve pvp. As it's artificially creating the sort of combat environment many people aspire for when out and about with their buddies but very seldom get. When the realty of real eve pvp usually being more; "blind gatejump ambush gank by blob, omg what happened im in station and that ship was really expensive, I don't know whether it was a good setup as I never got to fire a shot" or "this screen is lagged but I know I died because I heard the mail buzzer."
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:23:00 - [29] Edited by: Armoured C on 11/06/2009 20:23:41 Originally by: 5pinDizzy "blind gatejump ambush gank by blob, omg what happened im in station and that ship was really expensive, I don't know whether it was a good setup as I never got to fire a shot" or "this screen is lagged but I know I died because I heard the mail buzzer." those are my favorite bits though
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:27:00 - [30] The difference in WoW is that you got rewarded for the outcome of the arena system. In EVE, this would not be the case, except maybe for the experience from drills, simulations, and combat exercises. Minimal risk, minimal reward. I see absolutely no problem with it. Private battle scenarios will NOT cause people to fight over territory, assets, and political gain, whether you like it or not.



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