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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.06.11 15:53:00 -
[1]
Has anyone noticed that half the minmatar ammo is basically useless for autocannons?
EMP Phased Plasma Fusion Titanium Sabot
They all focus damage types so thats at least a bit useless, even though thats a streach as Titanium Sabot does 27.27% less damage than EMP so your opponent must have quite the kinetic hole to justify its use.
Wouldnt it be more appropriate for the minmatar to have ammo that effects the falloff of a weapon as that is a big deal for them?
It would be interesting to see a slight buff in damage and the optimal range bonus/reduction changed to a falloff bonus/reduction
Thoughts? |
steave435
Caldari SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.06.11 16:01:00 -
[2]
Artillery use the same ammo, and you do have barrage. For ACs, it can also be considered an advantage, you can load max damage ammo and your range won't be penalized by it. |
Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.06.11 19:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sigras Has anyone noticed that half the minmatar ammo is basically useless for autocannons?
EMP Phased Plasma Fusion Titanium Sabot
They all focus damage types so thats at least a bit useless, even though thats a streach as Titanium Sabot does 27.27% less damage than EMP so your opponent must have quite the kinetic hole to justify its use.
Wouldnt it be more appropriate for the minmatar to have ammo that effects the falloff of a weapon as that is a big deal for them?
It would be interesting to see a slight buff in damage and the optimal range bonus/reduction changed to a falloff bonus/reduction
Thoughts?
I would still like to see Artillery operate in the same was as AC's do. ( Super short optimal, with super long falloff) Then they could redo the ammo all together. Just give us 4 Short range high damage, and let the falloff curve take care of the rest.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.06.11 20:50:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Beverly Sparks
Originally by: Sigras Has anyone noticed that half the minmatar ammo is basically useless for autocannons?
EMP Phased Plasma Fusion Titanium Sabot
They all focus damage types so thats at least a bit useless, even though thats a streach as Titanium Sabot does 27.27% less damage than EMP so your opponent must have quite the kinetic hole to justify its use.
Wouldnt it be more appropriate for the minmatar to have ammo that effects the falloff of a weapon as that is a big deal for them?
It would be interesting to see a slight buff in damage and the optimal range bonus/reduction changed to a falloff bonus/reduction
Thoughts?
I would still like to see Artillery operate in the same was as AC's do. ( Super short optimal, with super long falloff) Then they could redo the ammo all together. Just give us 4 Short range high damage, and let the falloff curve take care of the rest.
Yeah, let the big boys handle the balance instead of you, mr. expert. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 22:35:00 -
[5]
it's true though; the selectable damage type argument has never had much truth to it. although i must admit i've gone away from "dumb" EMP x use and purely focus in fusion and phased plasma but then there's the reload time |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.12 03:28:00 -
[6]
How is this any different from pulses or blasters? You only have two ammo types for each of those guns: ANMF/CNAM and Scorch/Null. In fact, Minmatar have more ammo types that are actually useful, so I really fail to see how there's any problem here. -----------
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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.06.12 06:46:00 -
[7]
well blasters arent really a good example, but the difference for lasers is clear; mega pulse lasers with multifrequency has a range + falloff of 25 the same laser with radio goes range + falloff 58 more than 2x
blasters ammo makes no difference at all; i thought it would be good if the minmatar was somewhere in between . . . |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.12 07:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sigras well blasters arent really a good example, but the difference for lasers is clear; mega pulse lasers with multifrequency has a range + falloff of 25 the same laser with radio goes range + falloff 58 more than 2x
blasters ammo makes no difference at all; i thought it would be good if the minmatar was somewhere in between . . .
And I repeat: lasers have only two ammo types: ANMF and Scorch. Nobody uses any of the other ammo types, radio included, unless they don't have the skills for T2 (in which case they shouldn't be flying the ship).
Same with blasters. You either use CNAM, or Null. The other ammo types might as well not exist.
By your claim in the initial post, ACs have four useful ammo types, twice as many as any other weapon. Your claim that most AC ammo is useless is groundless. |
Sigras
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Posted - 2009.06.12 08:11:00 -
[9]
sry, didnt get your reasoning; but following that logic, the minmatar only have one viable damage type; RFEMP |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.12 08:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sigras sry, didnt get your reasoning; but following that logic, the minmatar only have one viable damage type; RFEMP
And now you're changing your story. You said in your first post that Minmatar have four useful (T1) ammo types, you can't just suddenly decide that they only have one useful ammo type just because the other races only have one.
Since you can not even decide what you want to claim, we must conclude that your request is incoherent and can be safely ignored. This thread has no further purpose, and can be locked whenever is convenient. |
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Princess Misha
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.12 09:03:00 -
[11]
Here is an idea:
Introduce Ammunition Plants in minmatar stations:
What they do? They configure your projectile ammos
How? All 7 projectiles variants are replaced with only 3 variants: variant a: standard optimal + standard damage variant b: 0.5 std optimal + 1.5 std damage (aka EMP like ammo) variant c: 1.5 std optimal + 0.5 std damage (aka carbonised lead like ammo) All 3 new projectile variants have 5 ammunition points.
What are ammunition points? you can configure your projectile ammo: 2exp + 1kin + whatever damage type = 5 total ammunition point (AP)
The final damage type = damage points x AP: For e,g lets say Medium variant b ammo has 22 damage points (M emp has total of 22 damage points: 10 emp + 4 kin + 8 exp), if we configure this M variant b ammo as 2 exp + 2 kin + 1 th, then this medium ammo will deal (2/5 *22)= 8.8 exp , 8.8 kin , 4.4 th damage.
E.g2, lets say i wanna configure variant c ammo for my artilleries (better optimal of variant c ammo) M variant c ammo has 12 damage points (M Carbonised lead has total 12 damage points: 6 kin + 6 exp) 2 exp, 1kn, 2 emp AP config = 4.8 exp, 2.4 kin, 4.8 emp damage
What you think?
This will give projectile ammos damage type flexibility but at the expense of limited range type flexibility (IMO range flexibiity should be an amarr thing).
To simply market sales, only 'blank' ammo of the 3 variants (a,b,c) for each size (s,m,l,xl) can be sold. You require the Amunition plant to modify it into a USABLE ammo...
T2 ammo should be customisable... this way you minmatar can finally appreciate DAMAGE FLEXIBILITY...
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.12 09:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Princess Misha (IMO range flexibiity should be an amarr thing)
Amarr do not have range flexibility. You have two ammo types: ANMF and Scorch. Maximum damage at close range, or high damage at long range. The other ammo types do not exist.
By giving Minmatar these extra choices (including the ability to change damage types on barrage!!!), you give a massive boost without any drawbacks. Now Minmatar have the same choice of range vs. damage as everyone else, but free choice of damage types. How exactly is this balanced?
And you're insane if you think anyone is actually going to use all of the options you're giving them. People are only going to use the "EMP" ammo, with their choice of damage type, and "barrage", with their choice of damage type. You might as well just save database space and not even include variants a and c. -----------
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Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.06.12 10:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Yeah, let the big boys handle the balance instead of you, mr. expert.
Yea, use my idea, and then let the big boys handle the balancing. Sorry, I didn't make that clear.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.06.12 11:50:00 -
[14]
Let's make projectile ammo complicated. There are varieties for ACs with falloff mod and artillery with optional mod (ACs will probably need a damage multiplyer boost to deal with low falloff with high damage ammo). Next you can put any warhead type in any range type, so you can have depleted uranium damage types with EMP range and damage amount.
Now, while being a rather muddles mess, you have the greatest variety in damage application of any race, fitting to the concept of Minmatar diversity and versatility. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Alex Medvedov
Minmatar Black Sinisters YARRR and CO
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Posted - 2009.06.12 12:22:00 -
[15]
Do not touch our ammo!:) I fly Minmatar a lot and i can tell you that almost every ammo type has its use! From phased plasma rounds (great aginst ammar), EMPs (great aginst T1 shield tankers), Barrage (very versatile and you will be able to dictate range in the most circumstances) and even Hails can be use if the raw firepower makes the difference. Is you who have problems to find out how to use projectiles, projectile ammo is ok and in fact it can give you a great advantage in fight if you know how to use it!
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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.06.12 15:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin And now you're changing your story. You said in your first post that Minmatar have four useful (T1) ammo types, you can't just suddenly decide that they only have one useful ammo type just because the other races only have one.
Since you can not even decide what you want to claim, we must conclude that your request is incoherent and can be safely ignored. This thread has no further purpose, and can be locked whenever is convenient.
well thankfully the CCP devs are more patient than you are . . . also it seems more intelligent.
I said that half the the ammo is useless . . . that doesnt necessarily make the other half useful; i can see how theyre different, but they obviously have limited usability . . . i mean phased plasma does 10% less damage than EMP . . . you'd have to see quite the thermal hole to make that useful at all
i am not responsible for your assumptions :P
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