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Venomire
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:05:00 -
[91]
Originally by: NAFnist look at these Pirate Legion guys, trying to make it sound like its good to be evil ;p
You speak about the terms "good" and "bad." In English there are several terms which you may translate as "good": there is a word which denotes "useful," another for "elegant," a third for "tasty," a fourth for "lovely," and thence through a dozen more. The same is the case with the attribute "bad": we have terms for "futile," "wasted," "unworkable," "ugly," and so forth.
You suggest these words refer to some greater reality, to qualities which pertain or which can be deduced from the universe itself. Is not a man "good" when he performs deeds of charity and kindness? Is he not "bad" when he acts in a violent, despicable, or repugnant fashion? This requires a discussion of the meanings of these terms and a look at the occasions upon which we apply them.
The truth is that the man who is kind, generous, and charitable is "good" only if he behaves thusly towards those whom the viewer approves and considers worthy of this bounty. The man who is "bad" is so when he acts contrary to the viewer's wishes. When a goon spies or scams, he is "good" to his colleagues, to his comrades, to his corp, and to GoonSwarm. He is "bad", however, to the man who was scammed or spied on, and to that man's comrades and supporters. Thus there cannot be any universal "good" or "evil," for upon what shall we base our standard?
Take the example of two alliances . Each considers its victory "good" and its defeat "bad". How can both be correct? Upon some all-pervading principle, you say, such as the proposition that one army supports kindness and charity, whilst its foes are the-exponents of cruelty, tyranny, and hatred? A study of human behaviour reveals this to be illusory. Both are kind to their allies, and both are tyrannical to their antagonists . The victory of "good" will tyrannise the "bad", and if the "bad" win, it will tyrannise the "good". Both are the same, and it is left to us to decide which victory benefits us the most.
We must return to the division between Stability and Change. Neither is "good" or "bad" in any universal sense. Those who seek Stability yearn for a status quo, an unchanging and unruffled flow of being, a world in which each creature slips easily from birth to death with hardly a striving, hardly a struggle against the current of the stream. We who hold with Change, on the other hand, desire a universe which alters and varies, a place ever in the throes of mutable creation and annihilation. We seek the gratification of our individual egos-power for some, sensual gratification for others-for it is the ego which matters most to each of us; the ego is the central pivot point of each creature's private universe . The world exists, and like the shipwrecked mariner in a stormy sea, it is up to each one of us to survive and to make the best of our circumstances. The tranquil equanimity of the shore is not for us , but rather the kaleidoscopic whirl of color and sensation and ever-shifting being within the eye of the storm!
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Satori Komeiji
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:06:00 -
[92]
I've been in queue for a game of Dawn of War II (3v3) for about 15 minutes now. Every time enough players are found someone leaves early.
This is making me v. sad.
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:11:00 -
[93]
you know whats really, really annoying?
Sent from my BlackBerry« wireless device
----------
AKA 'Bitter Dog'
Failing at everything he does in EvE since '05 |
Orree
Gallente Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:21:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Luna Nilaya
Originally by: Genuinely Windypops I actually don't think that's the case - we all know from the forum leaks how much MM hate GS.
Yes, those couple of MM members, who wanted to go back to north to fight the Guristas, speak for the whole alliance.
I think your posting about it being "those couple of MM members, who wanted to go back to north to fight the Guristas" understates things.
TBH, I think there probably still is a fair amount of anti-Goon sentiment within RAWR at least in that they simply don't like their style or method of getting things done. It's simply that they dislike TAFKAB more.
Over time, the more RAWR pilots have worked alongside Goons, I think this sentiment is waning a bit for some (and perhaps strengthening in others). This isn't really all that different from lots of people on the "other side" who used to be fervently anti-BoB/Kenny (even EvilThug and -A-, BTW) and with good reason but have changed sides because it was expedient and comfortable to do so (during the height of BoB's power) or because they have since come to really hate Goondom a whole heck of a lot more. It most certainly works both ways. To act as though its any different anywhere in the game is simply intellectually disingenuous and self-serving.
At the time, internally, we had some serious discussions about whether or not we should, as an alliance, avail ourselves of the opportunity provided by Haargoth's disbanding of BoB. In the end, the decision was to go ahead and go in, obviously, but it wasn't exactly a simple decision and there was a significant amount of dissent about it.
It's really kind of funny to me to see people generalizing about NC and/or RAWR pilots. I know why people do it. It simply fits into their agenda and their narrow view of the "Eve World." While undoubtedly less so than what used to be the case (just because they've been in the trenches together constantly for the past couple of years, RAWR is still very different from other NC alliances and far different from Goons in terms of its methods, thought processes and sensibilities.
So keep throwing out the inaccurate generalizations everyone...good for a laugh, at least.
"How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli |
Panzram
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:24:00 -
[95]
pee pee doo doo we are a bad alliance
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Orree
Gallente Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:27:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Butter Dog you know whats really, really annoying?
Sent from my BlackBerry« wireless device
If I were doing that, I'd write much shorter posts. Can't imagine typing one of my posts on my BlackBerry...lol.
"How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli |
Phelaen
Amarr Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:52:00 -
[97]
Quote: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/arts/television/28eve.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print ôI donÆt think there is any question that my idea of democracy is very different from a European personÆs idea of democracy,ö said Sean Conover, a 30-year-old computer forensics analyst from Cranford, N.J., who as the character Darius Johnson is the leader of a powerful military alliance of more than 5,000 players called Goonswarm. ôI think Europeans are more used to the idea that their political elites operate by different rules than everyone else, and that government officers need to be able to huddle somewhere in a private room so they can say things to each other that are different from what they say in public. What weÆve had to explain is that Americans have a very strong sense of fair play. We donÆt abide things like that, and we want everything to be open. So, yes, there has been some conflict on that level.ö
I think the difference is more like this: Europeans accepts the fact that their politians are corrupt and handle their affairs in back rooms and cover up that dirty work. While Americans are more gullable are refuse to see the fact that their politians are corrupt and handle their affairs in back rooms and cover up that dirty work.
no never mind... i am obviously wrong. -Nixon was an awesome straight forward dude. Watergate never happened -JFK got shot by a lone gun man on a day that the secret service just happened to forget the roof of the car, to check the building for snipers and for the first time inyears were working with half the manpower. -the Gulf of Tonkin incident that basically started the Vietnam war really happened. -The american government did nothing to provoke the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor
seriously get a clue....
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Venomire
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:59:00 -
[98]
There's a difference between expecting your leaders to be honest, open and straightforward and believing they are.
Or are you ignorant of how openly critical Americans are of their government? |
Phelaen
Amarr Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas
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Posted - 2009.06.12 19:07:00 -
[99]
what makes you believe Euopeans are not ? still Fox news seems to be getting pretty high ratings
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Venomire
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 19:10:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Phelaen what makes you believe Euopeans are not ?
Perhaps they are. I see them *****ing more about our government then their own, though.
Quote: still Fox news seems to be getting pretty high ratings
People are stupid, News at 11. |
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MASSIVEMURDERMACHINE
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 19:13:00 -
[101]
Edited by: MASSIVEMURDERMACHINE on 12/06/2009 19:14:38 What happened to the AAA that would kick someone if they whined on the forums?
No talk just....F1, F2, F3 |
Vadinho
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 19:18:00 -
[102]
Originally by: NAFnist after bob lost the throne, goons stepped in and became the top evil in eve, nothing personal, its just the way it is
I don't know why you'd think goons would take being called "the top evil in eve" as anything but a compliment
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Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari International Multi-Player Consortium
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Posted - 2009.06.12 19:32:00 -
[103]
-A- became allied to bob To make a massive overpowered blob They went for the kills For cheap new teeth thrills But we all know who sucks the nob.
Originally by: Halkin bob is dead, goons are great, cheese is cheesy, there we go no need for any more threads
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Elektrea
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.12 19:41:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Fossil Wolf to be fair they did make a public apology and the member was kicked for number one
oh god
Originally by: SirMolle To little, to late.
Goodbye.
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Soggybottom
Gallente The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.12 20:10:00 -
[105]
And Eve denizens will look on this thread and say: "Here is where AAA and its alt brigade began their defense of all that is just and honourable in EVE."
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Reapeat Offender
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 20:17:00 -
[106]
In this thread -A- tries to deflect their ingame dishonor by questioning Goonswarm's honor in the forums. But then again, if I was -A- and had just abandoned my friends at their moment of greatest need, I'd probably feel the need as well to come to the forums and attempt to hide that shame by making baseless accusations.
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isqander
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 21:03:00 -
[107]
Goons are beacons of fair play. |
OninoTimmo
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 21:30:00 -
[108]
AAA has no honour.
When KenZoKu needed them to break out of PR-, they responded by sending HAC gangs and stalled for an entire month before sending in a real fleet. KenZoKu needs them again to hold onto whatever towers they have left and AAA responded by ditching them again.
They are the worst allies in the game and act very dishonourably. What a shame, it's not a surprise that no one respects them anymore.
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Mr Adebisi
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 22:37:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Orree Edited by: Orree on 12/06/2009 18:31:49
Originally by: Luna Nilaya
Originally by: Genuinely Windypops I actually don't think that's the case - we all know from the forum leaks how much MM hate GS.
Yes, those couple of MM members, who wanted to go back to north to fight the Guristas, speak for the whole alliance.
I think your posting about it being "those couple of MM members, who wanted to go back to north to fight the Guristas" understates things.
TBH, I think there probably still is a fair amount of anti-Goon sentiment within RAWR at least in that they simply don't like their style or method of getting things done. It's simply that they dislike TAFKAB more.
Over time, the more RAWR pilots have worked alongside Goons, I think this sentiment is waning a bit for some (and perhaps strengthening in others). This isn't really all that different from lots of people on the "other side" who used to be fervently anti-BoB/Kenny (even EvilThug and -A-, BTW) and with good reason but have changed sides because it was expedient and comfortable to do so (during the height of BoB's power) or because they have since come to really hate Goondom a whole heck of a lot more. It most certainly works both ways. To act as though its any different anywhere in the game is simply intellectually disingenuous and self-serving.
At the time, internally, we had some serious discussions about whether or not we should, as an alliance, avail ourselves of the opportunity provided by Haargoth's disbanding of BoB. In the end, the decision was to go ahead and go in, obviously, but it wasn't exactly a simple decision and there was a significant amount of dissent about it.
It's really kind of funny to me to see people generalizing about NC and/or RAWR pilots. I know why people do it. It simply fits into their agenda and their narrow view of the "Eve World." While undoubtedly less so than what used to be the case (just because they've been in the trenches together constantly for the past couple of years), RAWR is still very different from other NC alliances and far different from Goons in terms of its methods, thought processes and sensibilities.
So keep throwing out the inaccurate generalizations everyone...good for a laugh, at least.
To be fair theres probably more anti-goon sentiment inside goonswarm than any other alliance, you must be one of the only people here without access to our forums and the endless thrads full of whining and trolling. |
Tampika Svenyika
Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 23:00:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Venomire Edited by: Venomire on 12/06/2009 18:41:29
Originally by: NAFnist look at these Pirate Legion guys, trying to make it sound like its good to be evil ;p
You speak about the terms "good" and "bad." In English there are several terms which you may translate as "good": there is a word which denotes "useful," another for "elegant," a third for "tasty," a fourth for "lovely," and thence through a dozen more. The same is the case with the attribute "bad": we have terms for "futile," "wasted," "unworkable," "ugly," and so forth.
You suggest these words refer to some greater reality, to qualities which pertain or which can be deduced from the universe itself. Is not a man "good" when he performs deeds of charity and kindness? Is he not "bad" when he acts in a violent, despicable, or repugnant fashion? This requires a discussion of the meanings of these terms and a look at the occasions upon which we apply them.
The truth is that the man who is kind, generous, and charitable is "good" only if he behaves thusly towards those whom the viewer approves and considers worthy of this bounty. The man who is "bad" is so when he acts contrary to the viewer's wishes. When a goon spies or scams, he is "good" to his colleagues, to his comrades, to his corp, and to GoonSwarm. He is "bad", however, to the man who was scammed or spied on, and to that man's comrades and supporters. Thus there cannot be any universal "good" or "evil," for upon what shall we base our standard?
Take the example of two alliances. Each considers its victory "good" and its defeat "bad". How can both be correct? Upon some all-pervading principle, you say, such as the proposition that one alliance supports kindness and charity, whilst its foes are the-exponents of cruelty, tyranny, and hatred? A study of human behaviour reveals this to be illusory. Both are kind to their allies, and both are tyrannical to their antagonists. The victory of "good" will tyrannise the "bad", and if the "bad" win, it will tyrannise the "good". Both are the same, and it is left to us to decide which victory benefits us the most.
We must return to the division between Stability and Change. Neither is "good" or "bad" in any universal sense. Those who seek Stability yearn for a status quo, an unchanging and unruffled flow of being, a world in which each creature slips easily from birth to death with hardly a striving, hardly a struggle against the current of the stream. We who hold with Change, on the other hand, desire a universe which alters and varies, a place ever in the throes of mutable creation and annihilation. We seek the gratification of our individual egos-power for some, sensual gratification for others-for it is the ego which matters most to each of us; the ego is the central pivot point of each creature's private universe. The world exists, and like the shipwrecked mariner in a stormy sea, it is up to each one of us to survive and to make the best of our circumstances. The tranquil equanimity of the shore is not for us, but rather the kaleidoscopic whirl of color and sensation and ever-shifting being within the eye of the storm!
Whoa did Jade Constantine take control of your keyboard? WTF run a virus scan or something.
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Daveion Steel
Gallente 6thsense Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.12 23:00:00 -
[111]
Quote: Awwwww... This is a really cute way of trying to get out of a ****storm. Even cuter considering you are trying to change minds after 6months of backing the guy up.
Frankly I stopped reading after Fred0 said this.
Eve history and politics have really changed. Linkage |
Scatim Helicon
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 23:00:00 -
[112]
holy christ look at this thread
Blaster Worm, I realise that your alliance's complete failure to defeat Goonswarm in game must make you very angry and bitter but you should realise that you are not very good at propaganda.
(or posting)
(or EVE Online)
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Psilocin
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 23:13:00 -
[113]
I, too, eat babies.
FOFOFOOOO! |
Genuinely Windypops
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.12 23:28:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Psilocin Edited by: Psilocin on 12/06/2009 23:27:37 I, too, eat babies.
Puppies and kittens as well.
They are delicious.
How zany and edgy.
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Psilocin
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.12 23:52:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Genuinely Windypops
Originally by: Psilocin Edited by: Psilocin on 12/06/2009 23:27:37 I, too, eat babies.
Puppies and kittens as well.
They are delicious.
How zany and edgy.
More like crispy and juicy!
FOFOFOOOO! |
mamolian
Gallente Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.06.13 00:53:00 -
[116]
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUU |
Goatface Man
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.13 01:06:00 -
[117]
We will quite happily joke about terrible tragedies, war crimes and anything else. But today a thread on our board about putting down dogs was really upsetting everybody.
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Satori Komeiji
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.13 01:14:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Goatface Man We will quite happily joke about terrible tragedies, war crimes and anything else. But today a thread on our board about putting down dogs was really upsetting everybody.
I had to close the video when they started putting the second set of dogs on top of the first. :smith:
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Superslam
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.13 01:24:00 -
[119]
"who are we to judge" --ayn rand |
Zemi Dahut
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.13 01:33:00 -
[120]
Anyone that's surprised by this thread being posed by an AAA mouthpiece is pretty dim. Having proven what everyone already knew, that they aren't able to compete in large scale POS combat, Blaster Worm has resorted to another avenue that they fail at, forum propaganda, to try and find some new allies.
Simply put everyone knows that Goons will fight dirty when pressed, but that dirty play remains in the confines of the game. Having bitten off more than what he could chew by taking ROLs blood money, and watching every ally of convenience be destroyed, Evil Thug is now looking at an EVE universe where he stands alone, and knows what this will mean for his alliance. His current campaign in Providence slapping around CVA and crew in "good fights" leaves him an easy position to retreat to when AAA crumbles after more months of POS combat being forced upon the membership to save the terrible space they live in.
Everyone that loves us, loves us in spite of, or maybe because of our zany antics. People that hate us are either failure cascading, live in empire, or are Atlas. These sad attempts to try to influence the COAD membership just proves how desperate AAA has become to try and ward off the approaching tide.
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