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Steel Dragon
Caldari Strip Miners and Explorers Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Steel Dragon on 12/06/2009 18:33:21 I fromed a new corp when WH's came out and I have tried various different setups and equipment types. I generaly go for CL3 WH's as I don't have the player base (yet) to get into the higher lvl ones. But for those of you intrested in living in a hole I have a few suggestions that can be helpfull to smaller (poorer) corps.
POS selection: for the average small corp wantingg to do WH's I suggest a: Med Amarr tower 2 Corp hanger arrays 1 Ship maintance bay 1 Med intensive refinery 2 Webbers 4 Jammers (one per race) 2 large pulse lasers (faction crystals if you can) 4 med beam lasers (faction crystals if you can)
This can be brought in using 2 transports or an orca fairly easily. Bring in the tower and enough fuel to online it. Ancher and online tower. Ancher and online corp hanger (to store the rest of your POS gear). Now I would get my defences online at this point as you never know when a new wh will open or when a hostile fleet may jump into yours. Ancher the refinery last (do not online save your fuel cost). The refinery is here so as you mine some of the grav sites you can atleast start refining it. It is much easier to send a CO frig out with a hold full of mega, zyd, and sleeper loot then to try and get an orca, freighter , or transport in and out and alot of times you won't have a high sec exit (if you do won't be big enough to get a freight through anyway) so while you mine or rat you can still refine some of the ore. As for the defences I propose you don't need a death star just a deturance as attacking forces have two things against them 1. Time (WH's close within a day most times). 2. Size restrictions (only so much mass can come through before the hole closes. so with 4 jammers and 2 webbers you can effectivly deture most attacking forces of 8-10 ships (more if you have a POS gunner). I use amarr tower for the power grid to use lasers (no ammo issue crystals last along time). I'm not trying to destroy people just deture them and drive them off. being cycle jammed and webbed then hammered by an xl laser has driven off 3 attacking forces so far.
So now you have a relitivly safe home in a Hole I would suggest a few things to have with you. 2 scanning frigs 2 combat ships (for a cl3 I recomend BC's Drake passive fit is an excelent choice) 2 minning barges (not exhumers) These ships are per character traveling into the wormhole. I use covy's not hulks for the simple risk / profit ratio. Lose a hulk out 100m lose a covy out 20m, and since you are allways under threat of a surprise attack limiting your losses will save you in the long run.
Fuel is up to you but I keep 21 days in my tower and anouther 21 days in a corp hanger (never know when you are getting a good exit for logitics runs). Also to conserve fuel offline your refinery and extra corp hanger when ever they are not being used. This will save you millions in unwasted fuel.
I started this a month ago and it cost me 400m to get it all together and ready to go it has since been in a hole and my first load out covered my startup costs and then some. I now make daily runs out (with sleeper loot and refined ore) and generaly net 150m/day (4 hrs / day).
In closing I hope this helps people with suggestions as to how to start up in wormholes and I hope you all get as much enjoyment as I have this last month in my hole. Be warned though space madness will affect you after sitting in a hole for a few weeks
Steel
PS. we are recruiting combat/industrialists to anyone intrested |
ArcDragon
Caldari FUSION INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2009.06.12 19:21:00 -
[2]
I've got a question that, so far, no one has been able to tackle. Given that you are more or less a small start up corp and that means that you really don't know each other well, how do you secure your POS?
I have had to turn down incoming recruits because I don't know of a way to keep them from podding me, or ejecting and pushing my ships out of the POS shields or robbing the corp hangar blind.
I know you can restrict access (somewhat) to a corp hangar, but what about giving your location away to a hostile force? He could simply probe the path out and hold the door open for them.
What is the best way to have new people come in without risking everything? |
Steel Dragon
Caldari Strip Miners and Explorers Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.12 20:04:00 -
[3]
I should start by saying while this corp is new I'm not. I have been playing Eve since it launched so I have a pritty good idea based on employment history and limited Api's that I screen applicants. If a player seams questionable then I simply would not give them access atall to the wormhole (as in unknown location). After a time I would ofcourse reassess this person and then either allow them access to the hole or remove them from corp, as I do not have anyone I don't trust in my corp. The main way I feel people out once incorp is there level of activity. By hanging out with the other members and being involved with operations (everything we do mining, missions, WH, or 0.0 we do as a team) If someone isn't a team player thats my first indication (lone wolfs normaly bring trouble). But for people who do activitys with the other members you see there personality and play style and get a pritty good idea who you can and can not trust with sensitive information. Butom line is anyone including your most trusted corp officers can betray you with no clue it is comming so all you can realy do is try and get a good read of someone and trust your gut (and there employment history). This is my 3rd corp and I have yet to have a corp thief, you just have to screen applicants and be involved with your members.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.06.12 20:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: ArcDragon I've got a question that, so far, no one has been able to tackle. Given that you are more or less a small start up corp and that means that you really don't know each other well, how do you secure your POS?
No one gets Config role except absolutely essential personnel.
Quote: I have had to turn down incoming recruits because I don't know of a way to keep them from podding me, or ejecting and pushing my ships out of the POS shields or robbing the corp hangar blind.
You don't have to bring them out to the wormhole on the first day or give them access to more than 1 tab of the corp hanger. Also, use eve-search to look up the history of your potential recruits and do a full-API check on them using market software like EVE-MEEP or EMMA. You can generate a report that will filter all the player donations so you can spot alts in corps known for espionage/corp theft. Also talk to previous/current CEOs about your potential recruit.
Quote: I know you can restrict access (somewhat) to a corp hangar, but what about giving your location away to a hostile force? He could simply probe the path out and hold the door open for them.
He could probe the path out, but as far as opening the door... not really. Not unless you're giving out starbase config role for some reason. Also, the # of people that would be interested in laying siege to a wormhole POS or harassing a small wormhole op is relatively small. If you're using a large ecm-star POS, (which I am assuming from you guide that you are) anyone capable of destroying it, (extremely determined/patient 50-man BS fleet) would have no interest in doing so. Wormhole moons are worthless, and at best your setup is worth 500m-1bn in loot for an attacker. Not worth it at all.
Quote: What is the best way to have new people come in without risking everything?
Having a recruitment process that is more involved than "Go to our office and apply", tbh. Shameless plug: Please see our website for an example.
Your biggest risk is your ship maintainance array, which cannot be compartmentalized like the CHA, so someone can potentially steal all your ships stored there. A good solution for this is to have high-value ships stored in one array, (offline if necessary and set to config-role use only) and communal/cheap fits in a public one.
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Rip Minner
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Posted - 2009.06.12 20:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 12/06/2009 20:46:41 I like this post for small corps and class 3 and lower wormholes. Its good advice a med is the cheapest fastest way in.
I would like to point out if you have a small but more advanced skill table for your corp you will still want a Large or in my book normal sized pos. To do reactions/shipbuilding. You can also do 100% tech 3 building inside your hole. You may even want more then one Large. Dont be afriad to go Large just make certin that you use them for more then refining ore and storing gas.
If refining ore and storing gas pluse rating and hacking then ya you can save isk with a med.
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Steel Dragon
Caldari Strip Miners and Explorers Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.12 21:10:00 -
[6]
As this guide is ment for corps just starting out or with a smaller member pool to spread the work load to I recommend the med tower for two reasons: Cost: Both the tower and the fuel. I med tower uses half the fuel a large does and for a corp just starting out this will be a key factor. Transportation: Using half the fuel also means half the m3 needed to transport it.
I would also add that while a small may seam like a beter fit for you it isn't. While the tower and fuel usage is cheaper so is your defence. A small can not power a corp hanger, ship maintance, and a desent defence. A med can atleast but up enough of a fight to deture all but the most dedicated attackers. |
motisa
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Posted - 2009.06.14 16:33:00 -
[7]
I enjoyed your guide and am interested in doing this. I have some noob questions about the logistics of doing this.
Me and 1-2 more corp mates are looking to do this in a class 2 to get some experience. You mentioned that you transported the pos items with 2 transports. The pos and all fittings comes to approx 60,000m3. the fuel for a 21 day supply is approx 60,000m3, then another 21 day supply back up is another 60,000m3
thats a total of 180,000m3 we have 2 transport ships that can fit about 30,000m3 each if i remember correctly.
Also each character has 6 ships each to bring in. Which is approx 42,500m3 for each character if packaged. thats with no ammo, rigs or fittings. That brings the total to move is 222,500m3 with out ammo,rigs, fittings. divided by the 2 transports 60,000m3 hauling combined = 3+ trips.
1.how many trips did you guys make setting this up? 2.Probably didn't have to worry about the wh closing due to mass comming thru it. correct? should be about 120,000,000 mass with 3 trips with 2 transports. 3.I show on the pos fittings that the power grid will not support all of the modules online at the same time. Is that correct?
Please let me know if i'm completly wrong or have missed something. Just trying to plan ahead to keep from making an expensive mistake.
Excuse my noobness. still learning this crap. |
Baillif
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Posted - 2009.06.15 07:13:00 -
[8]
Also be sure to avoid the wormhole bunyip at all costs. |
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