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Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.05.17 02:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
First were' going to start with what you should NOT do.
Do not bling out your Hulk to tank better than the setup I will provide you with (only uses named and tech 2 mods). If you bling out your ship to increase its tank, you'll simply advertise to pirates who scan you down to bring a bigger force and split their winnings on your bling mods.
So rule number 1: Do not Bling your Hulk.
Now how we fit a Hulk for tank: We will get a 37,500 EHP (overheat) fit that also uses ECM drones Lows: Damage Control II + Micro Aux Power Core II
Meds: Adaptive Invul Field x2 + Limited Invul Field + Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity
Highs: Strip Miner I x 3
Rigs: Medium Core Defense Field Extender I x2
Drones: Vespa EC-600 x5
Ok so we've made you a very UNATTRACTIVE target. Can we make you more unattractive? Certainly! You need an alt that flies a cruiser with Large Shield Transporters. May as well be one that can kill rats since your Hulk has ECM drones. You also want this to be a cheap fit and cheap cruiser hull, so your gankers/pirates don't have more incentive to gank you and your Hulk.
My pick: Arbitrator: Lows: Co-Processor II, DCU II and adaptive nano plating x2. We fit this tank so they don't try to attack the Arb before the Hulk. Meds: ECCM Radar II x 2 (so you become far more resistant to Jam) Highs: Large Shield Transporter x 2 Rigs: Medium Semi-Conductor Memory Cell x 3
Drones: Valkrie x 5, Warrior x5, Vespa ECM x5 Mining Drone x 5 (helps make up for a little of Hulk output that you had to sacrifice).
You can now rep your Hulk for 21 seconds and rep him through 1,550dps (overheated reps). You have two sets of drones to kill rats, one set of drones to provide additional ECM support (one successful jam completely ruins a suicide gank since Concord arrives pretty soon) and you even have 5 mining drones with a mining drones bonus from Arb skills to help out in the meantime.
However, even with these steps there is more that you'll need to know.
1) WATCH LOCAL if you are WARDECCED on the character (hulk pilot or cruiser pilot) that is wardecced.
2) Mine at least 5 systems away from any major trade route.
3) Stay aligned (directionally) to a station with your Hulk. Remember to STOP your ship after you align, otherwise you'll fly out of asteroid range.
4) If you're being observed by someone and local spikes by 5+ people within 30 minutes after being observed, gtfo and take a bio break and eat some food.
5) To accomplish #4, you should be in a "low" population high sec system, that in accordance with rule #2 is at least 5 jumps from a major trade route.
6) When you are being ganked: Overheat your
Congratulations, you just avoided Hulkageddon.
PS Rule Number 6) Don't expect to survive Hulkageddon is you're afk mining at any time with any setup. Obviously my above instructions force you to be active on your Main/alt who is flying the cruiser. |
Marcus Ichiro
Kif Korp
23
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Posted - 2012.05.17 02:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Even better than trying to tank a Hulk would be to just mine in a Rokh. |
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
98
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Posted - 2012.05.17 02:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meh, alt in orca.............. hulk in and T3 or something else out, nice to blap the aggressor(s) |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
49
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Posted - 2012.05.17 02:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reina Supremus wrote:Remember to STOP your ship after you align, otherwise you'll fly out of asteroid range.
Doesn't work with these slow ships. It still takes a lot of time to align and get to speed required to warp.
Flurk Hellbron wrote:Meh, alt in orca.............. hulk in and T3 or something else out, nice to blap the aggressor(s)
Dosen't work if targeted by NPC or player. |
Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.17 02:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Marcus Ichiro wrote:Even better than trying to tank a Hulk would be to just mine in a Rokh.
Most alt mining accounts don't' have Battleship Skills. Most Battleship Main Accounts don't have mining skills. If you're main account is a miner and you don't have a combat account, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING EVE IN THE FIRST PLACE? |
Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.17 02:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Reina Supremus wrote:Remember to STOP your ship after you align, otherwise you'll fly out of asteroid range. Doesn't work with these slow ships. It still takes a lot of time to align and get to speed required to warp.
It helps slightly, may save you 1-2 seconds which can be critical in PvP.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
239
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Posted - 2012.05.17 02:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
You're making this a lot harder than it has to be. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.17 03:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:You're making this a lot harder than it has to be.
How is any of this hard. You fit a tanked Hulk and a troll fit Arby. Use ECM drones and watch local. Profit
The above is the tldr version.
If you find any of that hard you shouldn't be in RAZOR |
Tarn Kugisa
Magnetic Testing Group - Please Ignore Negative Zone
79
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Posted - 2012.05.17 05:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
You fools and your mining Rokh's I mine in a Scorpion I Endorse this Product and/or Service [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url] |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
240
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Posted - 2012.05.17 05:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Reina Supremus wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:You're making this a lot harder than it has to be. How is any of this hard. You fit a tanked Hulk and a troll fit Arby. Use ECM drones and watch local. Profit The above is the tldr version. If you find any of that hard you shouldn't be in RAZOR It's not hard. I'm saying I can make it even easier. You won't even have to tank your Hulk at all and gimp your mining rate. You can fit full MLU IIs, cargohold expander rigs, survey scanners, and strip miner IIs. All you need to do is stay aligned to a celestial while you're mining and pay attention to whatever enters the belt with you. If it's a combat ship, warp out. There's almost no overlap between combat ships used for mining and ships used for ganking. Unless someone started suicide ganking in Ospreys and Rokhs without telling me. In any case a quick visual inspection is enough to determine a possible threat. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
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Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.17 07:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Reina Supremus wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:You're making this a lot harder than it has to be. How is any of this hard. You fit a tanked Hulk and a troll fit Arby. Use ECM drones and watch local. Profit The above is the tldr version. If you find any of that hard you shouldn't be in RAZOR It's not hard. I'm saying I can make it even easier. You won't even have to tank your Hulk at all and gimp your mining rate. You can fit full MLU IIs, cargohold expander rigs, survey scanners, and strip miner IIs. All you need to do is stay aligned to a celestial while you're mining and pay attention to whatever enters the belt with you. If it's a combat ship, warp out. There's almost no overlap between combat ships used for mining and ships used for ganking. Unless someone started suicide ganking in Ospreys and Rokhs without telling me. In any case a quick visual inspection is enough to determine a possible threat.
You can rack up some funny killmails my way though and watch them rage while you're Hulk is still at 100% shields and they are concorked while jammed. You also don't have to play ***** for a single or couple of suicide gankers. When I used to do it your way, I would end up being camped for an hour or two in my system, even though it's 5+ jumps off a major trade route.
Now I just let them try to gank me if their 1600 dps Hulk ganking Talos and laugh, only losing 15-23 seconds of mining time. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
184
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Posted - 2012.05.17 07:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tarn Kugisa wrote:You fools and your mining Rokh's I mine in a Scorpion
NA NA NANA NAVY DOMI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mines the winz right from the space!!!!!!!!!!! My indy alt has had 2 gankers say to-shay in local so far I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec. Were is the FW exclusive frigate sized ship? I see the cruiser and battle ship.......... |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
42
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Posted - 2012.05.17 07:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Reina Supremus wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Reina Supremus wrote:Remember to STOP your ship after you align, otherwise you'll fly out of asteroid range. Doesn't work with these slow ships. It still takes a lot of time to align and get to speed required to warp. It helps slightly, may save you 1-2 seconds which can be critical in PvP. It doesn't work at all. If you stop your ship then your vector becomes a point and it doesn't matter in the slightest which direction the picture of your ship is facing (which is also why if you're stationary for a significant time the picture of your ship will often reorient itself). |
Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.05.17 07:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:Reina Supremus wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Reina Supremus wrote:Remember to STOP your ship after you align, otherwise you'll fly out of asteroid range. Doesn't work with these slow ships. It still takes a lot of time to align and get to speed required to warp. It helps slightly, may save you 1-2 seconds which can be critical in PvP. It doesn't work at all. If you stop your ship then your vector becomes a point and it doesn't matter in the slightest which direction the picture of your ship is facing (which is also why if you're stationary for a significant time the picture of your ship will often reorient itself).
Hulks turn like bricks, staying aligned helps save a small (yet significant) amount of time when aligning. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
43
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Posted - 2012.05.17 07:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
No it doesn't.
Unless you're moving your vector is a point and therefore totally directionless.
If your speed is zero then it will take exactly the same amount of time to get into warp to a target directly behind the picture of your ship, or perpendicular to its axis as it will to get into warp to a target directly ahead of that picture. |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
37
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Posted - 2012.05.17 08:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reina Supremus wrote:3) Stay aligned (directionally) to a station with your Hulk. Remember to STOP your ship after you align, otherwise you'll fly out of asteroid range.
Last I heard, EVE only tracks a ships velocity vector, and ignores the actual alignment of the model. Being "aligned" means that you're actually moving towards the point you're aligned to - if you stop, your velocity vector is zero and you're basically aligned to nowhere. |
Skorpynekomimi
194
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Posted - 2012.05.17 08:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Passive align does nothing. Ships will warp facing BACKWARDS if they have to. |
Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.05.17 08:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:Passive align does nothing. Ships will warp facing BACKWARDS if they have to. Since everyone seems to agree on this, I'm going to believe, though I have not seen such behavior since I started playing in 2008.
Also what do you guys think about the rest of the suggestions? |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
86
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Posted - 2012.05.17 08:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
May as well buy and insure a covetor cause a hulk without mining laser upgrades is pointless. Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.05.17 08:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:May as well buy and insure a covetor cause a hulk without mining laser upgrades is pointless. But then who is going to try and gank you? |
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Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
37
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Posted - 2012.05.17 08:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Reina Supremus wrote:[quote=Skorpynekomimi] Since everyone seems to agree on this, I'm going to believe, though I have not seen such behavior since I started playing in 2008.
The problem here is exactly what you see. You're looking at the screen, see the model of the ship changing the direction it's facing and assume that this requires time. However, all of this is only taking place on your computer - the server does not care or know about ship models. It only knows your ships velocity vector. |
Reina Supremus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.05.17 08:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Exploited Engineer wrote:Reina Supremus wrote:[quote=Skorpynekomimi] Since everyone seems to agree on this, I'm going to believe, though I have not seen such behavior since I started playing in 2008. The problem here is exactly what you see. You're looking at the screen, see the model of the ship changing the direction it's facing and assume that this requires time. However, all of this is only taking place on your computer - the server does not care or know about ship models. It only knows your ships velocity vector. I thank you for your wisdom.
Also I already conceded this point and it has nothing to do in particular with the survival of your Hulk as you demonstrated now let's move along. If you just run around to flame posts for the miniscule reasons get a life. |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
86
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Posted - 2012.05.17 11:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Reina Supremus wrote:Gibbo3771 wrote:May as well buy and insure a covetor cause a hulk without mining laser upgrades is pointless. But then who is going to try and gank you?
Eh gankers? if your hulk is tanked or not, if someone wants to gank you its going to happen. If you are going to sacrifice efficiency on the hulk to the point it actually mines less than a mining laser upgrade covertor, may as well not fly it.
Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
8
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Posted - 2012.06.21 21:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think Reina has made some good points. Many of you are not active miners and are making some very broad assumptions. An example of this is that you can just warp out when you see a bad guy warp in to the roid field. For those of you not actively mining, the class of gankers has improved considerably. We now get an alt from a newb corp in a cov-ops ship fly in cloaked who bookmarks your position. Your position is then given to one or two gankers who enter the system and warp directly to you.
Seeing one or two people show up in the system is usually not cause for alarm and many of them are using alts in newb corps or switching between newly created corps to keep off gank lists. A good ganker can enter the system and be on your hulk in less than 30 seconds. Your only defense is to watch local and stop mining anytime ANYONE enters the system. Hardly worth my play time if I am doing that.
I like the ECM drone idea. I had not thought of that. |
tekpede
BLOMI
0
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
stay away from maila cuz well high sec gank your bear boat in thrashers. |
Lady Darkmoon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.06.22 09:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Miners getting ganked happens because the time to skill up an alt and the isk investment to create a gank setup Catalyst is so low that it's laughable. Considering the low price tag and the nearly non-existant training time, people are simply using the alts on their accounts that they can't really train anyways as CCP only allows one character per account to have active training. It's pretty much become a sport to pull an alt out of your hat and gank a random miner in a belt.
They aren't after your mods, or your ore. They are bored or just want you to get irritated and annoyed so they can laugh at your raging in local chat.
A hulk worth 350 mill can be blown up by a 1 week old alt in a 2 mill worth Catalyst.
Now, suicide ganking does happen, and there is no reason for it not to happen. If someone REALLY wants to blow up your industrial, transportship, battleship or freighter in high-sec they can and will do so. The only thing that matters is how many characters (pilots) are willing to sacrifice their standing and how much ISK is everyone willing to invest in order to destroy a ship.
Now, considering it takes 1 week and 2 mill investment to blow up a 350mill worth ship that takes weeks, if not months to train up, there is something really broken about the whole suicide ganking. It should cost the gankers more ISK and training to gank something of that value.
However, those issues are (probably anyways) being fixed this winter in the overhaul of the ORE ships in respects to mining yield and EHP.
Does that mean your Hulk will be impervious to suicide ganking? Of course not, it simply means the gankers will have to invest more time (read: skills) and ISK, or possibly more pilots, in order to destroy your mining ship.
What you can do is beef up your tank to avoid it as has been suggested by the OP. That does require spending time training up shield skills which most straight-up miners haven't trained at all. Also, the tank you can get out of a Hulk without outside help (shield transporters and fleet bonuses) is around 25k EHP, unless you start using "bling" modules. That might help against a single suicider... which in most cases is what you will meet. Rarely I met more than one suicider entering a belt at same time. As mentioned above, people do it because they are bored or just want some tears, so it's very rarely organized suicide attempts.
Granted, if you withstand their first attempt at suiciding on you they might, just out of spite, start to work together or get more alts just to achieve their goal... blowing your mining ship up.
The best way to avoid the suiciders, besides tanking your ship up, is to find a system that's away from the main shipping lanes and also not near the main mission and newbie hubs.
Another good way to avoid it is to train up exploration skills and find Gravimetric sites. Most explorers don't care to even track down Gravi sites, and they usually contain huge amounts of ore with better quality than what you normally find in the systems. Just yesterday I found a site with 70 roids containing Golden, Silvery and normal Omber as well as all 3 types of Kernite, in a 0.8 system. Mined for hours without seeing a single person comming within 1.000.000 on the Directional Scanner (which I use quite often to detect anyone approaching the grid I am on). |
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