Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 20:57:00 -
[31]
There's still a lot of risk to high sec, as the latest spree of hulk ganking proves.
I agree that it would be nice for more people, even carebears, to go into low-sec. Hell, at this moment I'm a mission running/ninja salvaging carebear and I still think this.
I just haven't seen any ideas that appeal to me.
Comparison with the ever dreaded WOW, it'd be nice if the higher level missions were in PVP space. Unfortunately, there's a big difference between EVE and WoW. There's no real risk involved in nonconsensual PVP in WOW, you die you res big deal.. Here you die, you lose much more.
I have some faith in CCP, devs, and you s****out there... someday you'll come up with the perfect idea that'll get more people venturing into low sec, and people will get blowed up and space will be all fireworks pretty.
Until that day, I have a carebear to steal wrecks from.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Herzog Wolfhammer
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 20:57:00 -
[32]
You want more people in lowsec?
Fine. Here is a solution:
Don't let any outlaws into high sec, not even in pods. Lock the gates to them. Negative security rating? No 0.5 or higher.
(and if a WH drops you in high sec, then you are flashy to everybody and they can shoot you).
The ganksters speak or "risk and balance" with veiled double-standard. Let them put up up shut up.
|
Krystal Vernet
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 21:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Quote: Granted, I'm in a T1 frig so I avoid some fights
So much for risk.
That was my first response when I read the post.
I'm trying to find a way to formulate the rest of my response, but others seem to be doing well enough to address those points. Key point for people like the OP to consider is that carebears invest sometimes hundreds of millions into their ships so that they can snooze through missions without risking losing the ship. They're not going to bring that into a location where someone can track them down and kill them with ships a hundredth of the price of their Raven + fittings. To make it worth it, the rewards for missioning in lowsec would have to be immense or the lowsec area pretty safe.
|
K'uata Sayus
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 21:19:00 -
[34]
Solo PvP in a frigate. Can't imagine why there aren't any solo frig pilots in low/null sec who are doing the same thing you are. Should be dozens wherever you go. Sheesh.
Pleeeze bring me miners in Hulks to lo-sec so I can gank them, pleeeeeeeeeeze???!!??
You talk about risk and then you flit about in a t1 frig? What the hell kind of risk is that???!?
Anyone who roams around 11 hours a day and finding only 1 fight ought to realize that players could care less about this kind of PvP. Most players would have realized this after a half-hour or so.
You really need to get in touch with Cat-o'-Ninetails and join the Rancer Defense Force or League or whatever its called. Then you can spend a lot of time waking up in a clone vat like she does.
There is no "arena" PvP in this game, its the bigger fish eat the smaller fish, the t2 fitted frigs smashing the t1 fitted frigs all day long. Then one day there are no t1 fitted frigs roaming about as anyone with a lick of sense realizes they better skill up and join some gang if they really want to PvP.
|
Kezzle
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 21:24:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Xtreem I do agree with what your saying about isk making, it is too easy to just stay in hi sec and make isk, and making that amount of isks should mean more risks.
I think you're probably right.
Quote: ...at the moment one of the best ways to make money is in an npc corp farming missions...
And another is in an NPC corp farming Veldspar. Or trading/speculating/Industrying.
Quote: Losses in this game are needed, more missioning risk, more cnr/golem losses, thus increasing prfots for the mission runners getting the cnrs from LP store and people making golems, thus people making t2 comps, thus haulers / pos holders make more.
More risk would make things (markets, tactical situations) more dynamic and that would be interesting for some.
Quote: npc corp tax is the way.
Corp tax is on mission rewards and bounties only, yes? Doesn't touch trading income or salvaging returns? While I agree with the people saying you can't force people into Lo/Nul-Sec, I don't even think that such a tool would have any such effect since salvage sales is such a large proportion of missioning income and wouldn't have any effect on miners and wheeler-dealers. The only people it would move would be those who are planning on moving anyway at some point: they'll move a smidgeon earlier, is all. The risk-averse missioners will remain where the risk is low: that's more important to them than the absolute ISK/hr return rates.
How to encourage people to get stuck in to conflict zones? Tricky, that. Commercial operations in a combat zone have to be sufficiently more profitable than operations in peaceful zones to cover the inevitable losses, for a start. I think the biggest hurdle though is psychological. You have to answer the question, "Why should I go there and mine and give the local 'Yarr!' crew a potentially large proportion of my hard work for [what is perceived as] no effort on their part?" which is a verrry difficult question to answer with a straight face. Yes, you can take precautions, but they all eat into your profit margin, and add to the effort required, meaning that the profit from the activity has to be commensurately higher. I think it's evident that the balance is wrong now, with the reward for organising lo/nul-sec mining blobs being too low relative to the risk.
You probably also have to deal with the perception that most of the roaming risk-multipliers are smack-talking ****wit griefers, to whom the hisec operators really don't want to give any gratification, let alone a jetcan full of [profitable ore of the day].
The fact (is it a fact, or is it misinformation?) that Veldspar is the most profitable ore to mine at the moment, and it can be mined in near complete safety, is probably the biggest factor outside the profitability of L4 missions in keeping people in Hisec. If other ores, only available in Losec, provided the best return you'd at least get some pioneers.
|
Jin Nib
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 21:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kezzle .... provided the best return you'd at least get some pioneers.
Thats what I want out there, pioneers, I dont care if the carebears stay in high sec, thats good for them they enjoy it. There are those out there willing to take a risk for more reward, however for them there is no reason to go to lowsec.
And for those of us who like to PvP it'd be nice to make some dough enough to do that without being forced into high sec to get enough returns.
Where do people get the notion that everyone in high sec is a carebear or that they are the majorty population? Just because you carebear in high sec and prefer it, doesnt mean everyone there likes the fact that it is the only reasonable way to make money. |
Ryfaen Ren
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 21:39:00 -
[37]
Yes, I'm a carebear... spend too much time working on mfg/invention skills to work much on fighting skills although I got enough pve skills to run level 4s without breaking a sweat.
I tried several times to move into lowsec/nilsec. Didn't make it as everytime I was caught in gate camps within seconds of entering lowsec. Our corp even setup a PoS in lowsec to moonmine. The losses just were not covered by the profits so after 6 months without breaking even we gave it up. Big problem was that very very few moons didn't already have a PoS setup. So we had to settle on a marginal one with few minable minerals.
I agree with the above posters in that it just isn't worth the rewards currently. So I settle on what I can do until some day when I get around to improving my PvP skills and ship setups. If I were "forced" to move into low/nilsec at this time, I would orobably just leave eve entirely. A large part of my enjoyment currently is not being on the game for hours on end, but on being able to hop on and do a few things and then log knowing that I am continueing to make progress.
It's not about maximizing profits and isk/hour, it's about having fun.
|
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 21:40:00 -
[38]
old man star :)
JOIN FOFF NOW CHAT CHANNEL FOR MORE INFO
|
Jin Nib
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 21:56:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jin Nib on 16/06/2009 21:56:51 Edited by: Jin Nib on 16/06/2009 21:56:23
Originally by: Ry**** Ren Yes, I'm a carebear... spend too much time working on mfg/invention skills to work much on fighting skills although I got enough pve skills to run level 4s without breaking a sweat.
I tried several times to move into lowsec/nilsec. Didn't make it as everytime I was caught in gate camps within seconds of entering lowsec. Our corp even setup a PoS in lowsec to moonmine. The losses just were not covered by the profits so after 6 months without breaking even we gave it up. Big problem was that very very few moons didn't already have a PoS setup. So we had to settle on a marginal one with few minable minerals.
I agree with the above posters in that it just isn't worth the rewards currently. So I settle on what I can do until some day when I get around to improving my PvP skills and ship setups. If I were "forced" to move into low/nilsec at this time, I would orobably just leave eve entirely. A large part of my enjoyment currently is not being on the game for hours on end, but on being able to hop on and do a few things and then log knowing that I am continueing to make progress.
It's not about maximizing profits and isk/hour, it's about having fun.
Right and the low sec rewards and costs make it un-fun. Giving a serious boost to low sec rewards and living would solve this by making it affordable if not profitable.. It really is that simple. |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 22:01:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 16/06/2009 22:01:59
Originally by: Bowlo Cheeba
Originally by: Xtreem bla bla
Losses in this game are needed, more missioning risk, more cnr/golem losses, thus increasing prfots for the mission runners getting the cnrs from LP store and people making golems, thus people making t2 comps, thus haulers / pos holders make more.
npc corp tax is the way.
0-3 months - 0 tax 3-6 months - 10% tax 6-12months - 25% tax 12+ months - 50% tax
thus not effecting new players badly, making players corps more active, thus making war deccing more of a path, thus making protection corps / players needed.
which is overall good for the game.
bla bla
Every time a thread like this pops up, a whine like this pops up and basically ruins the flow.
You, and everyone like you, get it through your thick heads:
You can't FORCE ppl out into lowsec/0.0 just so you have more targets.
What you can do, is make them WANT to.
Use all your supposed brainpower and brainstorming to come up with ideas to make ppl want to join you out there, not waste time regurgitating whines that have been posted 1000000 times.
Get it though your thick head he never said he wanted ppl in low or null sec! He suggested that ppl who want to be in an NPC corp for a long time should pay for the privelige.
|
|
Djakku
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 23:13:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ulysses Odysseus
So I've been roaming around low-sec/0.0 for hours everyday. I hardly ever see people or I see a small roaming gang occasionally and one or two people in system at safespots.
I really think your hanging about in the wrong area of space. Try the Hysera -> Old Man Star pipe.
I agree with the lack of need to enter low sec though. Make mining more profitable yes! (and then pirating would be more profitable also :P) Keep safe spots but get rid of those DAMNED low sec pos's. I hate them. keep those for 0.0 only!
|
Stil Harkonnen
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 02:26:00 -
[42]
In my opinion the ores in lowsec should me more profitable than the ores in 0.0.
Why?
because there is honestly more risk in lowsec than there is in 0.0. You can't own systems and completely control them in lowsec the way you can in 0.0.
Therefore, the ores should be worth more since there's actually more risk in lowsec.
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 03:44:00 -
[43]
Why is it that people who complain about not being able to find "pvp" invariably offer mining changes as the solution. Could it be that what they consider pvp is actually just attacking and easily destroying much weaker miners?
Addressing the changes as offered:
1. Making low sec more profitable without destroying the economy would mean making high sec much much less profitable than it is now... as it stands there isn't enoough ore in high sec for all the miners and many still avoid low sec. So you'd have to gut the profitability of high sec to the point where no one could make money at all there to get enough miners to move into low sec so you can shoot them. I'm thinking bad idea.
2. No safe spots for pilots near celestial bodies... lets see... who parks next to celestial bodies that would depend on a safe spot.. Could it be... miners? Again we see the emphasis on pvp with miners.
If you are looking for a real pvp fight try factional warfare if you can really fight otherwise keep flying in safe areas and complaining.
|
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 04:23:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Durzel on 17/06/2009 04:22:59 I like how the OP talks about risk and in the same post suggest ways of getting miners into low-sec.
|
WhiteSavage
Gallente Altruism.
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 04:29:00 -
[45]
11 hours no pvp lol.
10 systems any direction and our fleets will find a fight
/me shrugs |
Bowlo Cheeba
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 05:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 16/06/2009 22:01:59
Originally by: Bowlo Cheeba
Originally by: Xtreem bla bla
Losses in this game are needed, more missioning risk, more cnr/golem losses, thus increasing prfots for the mission runners getting the cnrs from LP store and people making golems, thus people making t2 comps, thus haulers / pos holders make more.
npc corp tax is the way.
0-3 months - 0 tax 3-6 months - 10% tax 6-12months - 25% tax 12+ months - 50% tax
thus not effecting new players badly, making players corps more active, thus making war deccing more of a path, thus making protection corps / players needed.
which is overall good for the game.
bla bla
Every time a thread like this pops up, a whine like this pops up and basically ruins the flow.
You, and everyone like you, get it through your thick heads:
You can't FORCE ppl out into lowsec/0.0 just so you have more targets.
What you can do, is make them WANT to.
Use all your supposed brainpower and brainstorming to come up with ideas to make ppl want to join you out there, not waste time regurgitating whines that have been posted 1000000 times.
Get it though your thick head he never said he wanted ppl in low or null sec! He suggested that ppl who want to be in an NPC corp for a long time should pay for the privelige.
He is saying that life in highsec and npc corps should be made worse.
I said that he should be more concerned with giving more lowsec more incentive, rather than nerfing high sec.
Don't kinda sorta suggst something, and then get all defensive when I call you on it lol. |
Jin Nib
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 05:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Barbara Nichole Why is it that people who complain about not being able to find "pvp" invariably offer mining changes as the solution. Could it be that what they consider pvp is actually just attacking and easily destroying much weaker miners?
Addressing the changes as offered:
1. Making low sec more profitable without destroying the economy would mean making high sec much much less profitable than it is now... as it stands there isn't enoough ore in high sec for all the miners and many still avoid low sec. So you'd have to gut the profitability of high sec to the point where no one could make money at all there to get enough miners to move into low sec so you can shoot them. I'm thinking bad idea.
This is not true at all, the economy might require some limited balencing but truth told it will sort it self out and self adjust. Also cost will go up with any move to low sec, the idea is to get enough monies out there to not only cover those costs but actually make it profitable. Quite frankly the trit demand is crazy that really does need to be addressed, the rare ores should really be worth the time IMO (I'd like miners to get a boost just on general principles, but I dont know too much about them just how the market is moving).
My prefrance is that low sec be profitable enough for people to organize opperations to go out there and do it. Thus it wouldn't be one lone misson runner or miner, it'd be misson runner and gaurds and scouts, but hopefully the nature of low sec could be advanced to discourage huge blobs.
Quote: 2. No safe spots for pilots near celestial bodies... lets see... who parks next to celestial bodies that would depend on a safe spot.. Could it be... miners? Again we see the emphasis on pvp with miners.
I dont know what hes on about safe spots, why not make scouts just a little less specail while we're at it. Safe spots are an obvious tool to encourage ppl to low sec. Why would you want to get people to PvP and then ditch one of their major defences?
Quote: If you are looking for a real pvp fight try factional warfare if you can really fight otherwise keep flying in safe areas and complaining.
I don't know about the others, but my main, Opera Noir, is in FW and I enjoy it, but it gets expensive. I don't want to nerf high sec into being totally pointless, but I would like to see CCP making real efforts at making low sec more worth the trouble. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 05:37:00 -
[48]
I somewhat agree with the OP. EVE is not really a get into a fight instantly sort of game. There is a lot of patience, strategy and cat and mouse going on. Sometimes I play a simple java game on the side while my enemies "get their balls together"
I suggest FW. I can find a fight (usually not 1v1, that is a rarity) pretty fast. Or at least get some kind of action.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
|
Franga
NQX Innovations
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 05:42:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Franga on 17/06/2009 05:44:19 I feel like flogging a dead horse today.
Having said this, I do agree that hi-sec nub corps are horrible and disagree with the mechanic completely. Shame it's not my game, I just play it. _____________________________
Please resize sig to a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 05:43:00 -
[50]
OP is not looking for pew pew, he's looking for things he can gank in a T1 frigate.
No wonder he can't find targets.
|
|
Aodha Khan
Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 07:40:00 -
[51]
Problem is that low sec really needs boosting. At the moment its just a dull void.
|
Julian Lynq
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 08:27:00 -
[52]
the boost of lowsec is nullsec.
|
Deej Montana
Caldari Outbound Flight
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 08:42:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Where do people get the notion that everyone in high sec is a carebear or that they are the majorty population? Just because you carebear in high sec and prefer it, doesnt mean everyone there likes the fact that it is the only reasonable way to make money.
They get that notion from CCP's own figures. One of the first reports published by their resident economist showed that about 70% or so of Eve's population lived/worked/made money/shopped/etc in high sec and rarely left it. Take a look at the first Quarterly Econ Report from last year and see the numbers for yourself. |
Neamus
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 08:51:00 -
[54]
OP, you don't know what you're talking about.
You fly around in a tech 1 fitted frig, meaning you've probably been playing EvE for what, about two weeks? And then you come on the public forums spewing crap about there being no risk... lol
You're right, moron. There is no risk in a tech 1 frig, in fact most people wont even bother with you if your in a tech 1 frig, its simply not worth the effort.
1. If you're looking for a fight and cant find one quickly then you're flying in the wrong areas and you don't know what you're doing.
2. If you want some risk, move to the risky areas and fly a ship that's actually worth shooting at. Go hang out in delve in a carrier and see how long you last.
Cant believe i actually wasted my time typing that up. 11 hours a day and you cant get fights? No risk? You're right, your time would be better spent away from eve. Now please **** off somewhere else and stop wasting forum space. |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 10:28:00 -
[55]
Hm, you can play 11 hours straight and have problems dedicating time to be in an alliance? I don't buy it. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |