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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.06.16 22:21:00 -
[1]
It's become pretty common for the nos/neut to be used to counter light ships in close (not even that close with large) and pretty much take them right out of the fight by sucking their capacitor dry.
Perhaps some kind of tracking system for these or some similar reduced effect based on sig radius?
Just seems strange that a Heavy Neut can hit an Interceptor every time when it's whipping by in close where the guns cannot.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.06.16 23:18:00 -
[2]
Seems fine to me. It's a countermeasure big ships can fit against little ones that is usable, but doesn't result in a complete wtfpwning. |
Theodore Kaczynski
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.17 02:10:00 -
[3]
Neuts are fine. In my mind, nos could use a boost for small vs large, though. I think it would be rather nice if nos worked the attacker's ship's absolute cap value was less than the attacked ships, instead of percentage cap. This would almost always help small ships versus large, and behave about the same between ships of the same size.
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.17 02:14:00 -
[4]
lol no. and boost webs!
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Fille Balle
Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:12:00 -
[5]
Um, well now. Using one large neut and sucking an inty dry in one cycle seems a bit overpowered to me. Especially since you need interceptors lvl5 in order to be able to point outside of the range of a large neut.
I personally think cap warfare is ruining pvp, as every ship needs a cap booster, and cap stable setups are useless in pvp. It only serves to further limit the options available to a player when fitting a ship.
/Supported
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:24:00 -
[6]
More like interceptor level 1 for a tackling intie (okay then you got very little manouvring space left, but you certainly dont need intie lvl 5). |
RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:50:00 -
[7]
Not supported.
The current situation seems perfect to me, frigates should be at risk from Battle ships that take the time to fit to counter them.
If you dont like being neuted fit a small cap booster, such is the heavy neut cycle time that you can ensure you can keep a target pointed and your speed up.
He fits to counter you, dont whine if you arent prepared to do the same.
I am also not in favour of anything that nerfs NOS or Neuts, they are gimped enough in most situations as it is.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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M Blanc
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Posted - 2009.06.17 09:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: M Blanc on 17/06/2009 09:45:47
Quote: Seems fine to me. It's a countermeasure big ships can fit against little ones that is usable, but doesn't result in a complete wtfpwning.
Killing a frigate's tackle, prop mod, and possibly guns isn't wtfpwning these days? Fully support giving neuts tracking-dependence.
There's a difference between being 'at risk' from a larger ship and 'dead in the water'. |
Verys
The Black Ops Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.17 11:09:00 -
[9]
The thing is that the only way to stop an interceptor would be well you guessed it, a heavy neut, the guns on a battleship will always be out-tracked.
Most if not all drones will never catch up with an experienced interceptor pilot so the only way that remains for getting rid of interceptors is by neuting them.
Also coupled with the fact that interceptors have a signature decrease making locking them quite hard so if your gang is right behind you the battleship will die.
I see a working counter vs a mechanic here, why fix what ain't broken. |
Jogvan
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.06.17 12:40:00 -
[10]
Quote: Just seems strange that a Heavy Neut can hit an Interceptor every time when it's whipping by in close where the guns cannot.
So you want a BS to be completely helpless against a inty?
Usually when I get neuted by a bs while flying a inty I still manage to recharge cap a little to run the MWD once and get out of range. |
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Fille Balle
Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 12:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Furb Killer More like interceptor level 1 for a tackling intie (okay then you got very little manouvring space left, but you certainly dont need intie lvl 5).
Wrong. At lvl1 a disruptor II has the same range as a Hevy neut II, so lvl1 won't cut it. At lvl5, you'll have about 5km more range. That's really isn't a lot when MWD's are involved (which will always be the case with BS's). |
M Blanc
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Posted - 2009.06.17 13:28:00 -
[12]
Quote: So you want a BS to be completely helpless against a inty?
All battleships can carry a flight of warrior IIs and a scram/web, which is sufficient to kill any frigate hull that gets close; disco is also an option. It would be fine if the neut's effect were scaled by sig radius such that it had a similar effect to a small neut when used against frigates, and to a medium neut against cruisers, but as it is, it's a get out of jail free card against any tackler save for a tackle inty with a disruptor (faction points excluded). |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: M Blanc Edited by: M Blanc on 17/06/2009 09:45:47
Quote: Seems fine to me. It's a countermeasure big ships can fit against little ones that is usable, but doesn't result in a complete wtfpwning.
Killing a frigate's tackle, prop mod, and possibly guns isn't wtfpwning these days? Fully support giving neuts tracking-dependence.
There's a difference between being 'at risk' from a larger ship and 'dead in the water'.
A frigate can out-track a battleship trivially even without a prop mod, and 24 seconds is a long cycle time. Unless you're in a Bhaalgorn or a neut Domi or something(both of which tend to eat frigs alive), you're going to have 1 neut on him, maybe 2 in some rare cases. I've never tried it in actual combat, but I'm pretty sure natural cap recharge can feed your tackle around a single neut (with holes smaller than a battleship's align time) if you're careful about timing.
Also, frigates generally ought to be at a disadvantage to battleships when the numbers are equal, so the BS having options like this against frigs seems fine to me. |
Syringe
Oedipus Complex
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Syringe on 17/06/2009 14:28:00
This is how they should have done the original NOS nerf, basing it off of sig radius, or tracking, or optimal ranges or some other such crap.
Neuts however are fine - there are ways around it, and an inty can operate quite effectively against a battleship with some skill.
EDIT: /not supported |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:43:00 -
[15]
Just to be clear this isn't a 'whine'. I've never been neuted out when flying my Ares (and I've been flying it a fair bit in PvP lately). If I was, I could probably get away.
No BS is ever going to be 'helpless' against an Interceptor - which can't do anything like enough damage to even scratch it. However Interceptors are tackle ships and having one module which can null that in a single cycle seems a tad much. Webs, drones, 2S Warp scrammers (if the 'ceptor gets too close) and, of course, the old standby of a wing of Warrior IIs are all viable counters as are <shudder> the light dual and quad guns with higher tracking which are supposed to be the counter to such things - although those need a tracking boost these days.
In short, there are lots of other options, but the most notable one - bring light ship support of your own, is also frequently ignored.
In a one on one, even with a neut shift (and I'm not proposing making them useless by any means just not quite so useful) the BS can pretty much ignore the 'ceptor even if it has none of the other available options - so long as both are alone. My wife had an Interdictor pounding on her Hulk for 20 minutes completely unable to scratch her tank before help was eventually able to drive the Red pilot off.
In EVE, fleets are supposed to be balanced and there should be no 'ultimate' weapons against any ship. Due to other changes in balance issues, mostly speed rebalancing, fleets are changing. Light ships, once almost as rare as hen's teeth, are suddenly much more viable, which has increased the overall usefulness of neutralizers. I just think it's time for a small shift downwards in power against smaller ships only. Personally I think it should be tracking and signature influenced (leave your MWD on at your peril Inty pilots!) but that's just my thoughts on it.
Hey - I have heavy neuts on one of my Dominixes as well and they work very well - but I'd feel very cheap nailing a Hawk with it, leaving him dead in space and then watching the Warrior IIs rip him to shreds before he could do anything. That's just a bit too much in my mind.
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Leon Mustapha
Amarr Blink Dominion
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Posted - 2009.06.17 17:39:00 -
[16]
Not supported, capacitor warfare is fine as it is. |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.17 17:48:00 -
[17]
Not supported.
Large ships will rarely fit more than one energy neutralizer or vampire to counter frigates and interceptors, therefore, they can only suck the cap energy of one ship at the time. That means in order to tackle them, you'll need to use more than one ship.
What they are doing is a valid tactic, and shouldn't be nerfed. |
AtheistOfDoom
Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.06.17 22:12:00 -
[18]
Cap warfare doesnt need a nerf, stop whining. /not supported And then, he killed the dog... |
Zenethalos
Minmatar Noir.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 00:08:00 -
[19]
Not supported. I have been double neut'd by a bs before in a ceptor and my passive recharge is more then enough to have a point back in a matter of three seconds. Not only that it is the only real defence against ceptor's for most battleships. |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.18 00:26:00 -
[20]
Not supported. |
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Zenethalos
Minmatar Noir.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 03:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Interceptors are tackle ships and having one module which can null that in a single cycle seems a tad much.
Let's get rid of ECM, it jams my gun cycles :( Let's get rid of Nos/neut, ohh noes I cannot run my point for 3 seconds Let's get rid of Sensor damps, my sniper ship can't lock far targets to deliver the pew Let's get rid of warp scram's, they negate my ability to MWD Let's get rid of webs, they don't shut something down they just make me slow and I hate being late Let's get rid of Smart Bombs, they disable my ability to send my drones after a target that is using them Let's get rid of any ship that can kill me, they disable my ability to defend my e-honor
Dude neuts/nos are fine. |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.06.19 19:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Zenethalos <snip>Dude neuts/nos are fine.
Many seem to feel that way - although most of the ones who do seem to be Nos/Neut users.
I'm one of those too, as I've mentioned, and *I* feel that they're too much in some cases.
That's my opinion, you're welcome to differ, but I've read nothing above that has really convinced me that I'm wrong aside from some counters which seem to be either hard to use or defeating of the main purpose of some ships. In other words, not quite convincing enough.
I don't like "I win" buttons, even when I have them on my own console so I stand by the opinion.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
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