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Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:19:00 -
[1]
For some reason Hail seems to have more anti-boni than all other T2 short range turret ammo types.
Hail has three anti-boni: Falloff x0.5 Tracking Speed x0.5 Cap Recharge -7.5% per gun
And has no advantage other than more damage.
Null also has three anti-boni: Tracking x0.5 Falloff x0.5 Cap Need +25%
But it has two advantages over Antimatter More damage Increased optimal
Conflagration has only 2 anti-boni: Tracking Speed x0.5 Cap Need +25%
In return for doing more damage.
Why is this? Am I missing something, if so what?
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Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sniper Wolf18 on 17/06/2009 07:22:50
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
Why is this? Am I missing something, if so what?
CCP hate minmatar And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
Khornne
Caldari Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:23:00 -
[3]
The point you are missing is: T2 close range ammo sucks donkey balls.
-- Khornne's Teamspeak Server Service |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:26:00 -
[4]
EMP sucks also damage wise compared to other short range ammos, so compared to emp hail is pretty good.
And repeat after me: bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, not boni and also not bonii
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Khornne The point you are missing is: T2 close range ammo sucks donkey balls.
^^ This. It doesn't matter if Hail happens to come with more things that makes it crap than the other ammo types — they're all equally useless crap at the end of the day anyway. |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:57:00 -
[6]
Barrage ftw
Originally by: darkrei9n
Because Minmatar ships smell like garbage, Amarr ships smell like incense and that stuff, Caldari ships smell like a hospital, and Gallente ships smell like French people.
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Jesslyn Daggererux
Gallente Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:58:00 -
[7]
why are you crying? yous guns dont use cap. you take guns like mine that can be shut off and make them more cap dependant. oh no, a small recharge bonus hit for you. oh poor baby. i got some friends who load hail once in awhile, but no one ever uses void. for good reason. -------------------------
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux GREAT CHINESE WALL OF TEXT
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset For some reason Hail seems to have more anti-boni than all other T2 short range turret ammo types.
Hail has three anti-boni: Falloff x0.5 Tracking Speed x0.5 Cap Recharge -7.5% per gun
And has no advantage other than more damage.
Null also has three anti-boni: Tracking x0.5 Falloff x0.5 Cap Need +25%
But it has two advantages over Antimatter More damage Increased optimal
Conflagration has only 2 anti-boni: Tracking Speed x0.5 Cap Need +25%
In return for doing more damage.
Why is this? Am I missing something, if so what?
The first thing you are missing is that there is no such word as "boni" in English. The plural of "bonus" is "bonuses". The second is that "anti-bonus" is a null construction. The word you are fumbling for is penalty.
The third thing as that all the T2 high-damage ammo is horrible. Everyone uses faction ammo because it does 98% of the damage with no drawbacks, so no-one cares about the penaltii of T2 Void/Hail/Conflagration.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:10:00 -
[9]
…I prefer the construction "penaltae" ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity YARRR and CO
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:11:00 -
[10]
you are also missing the fact that Null isnt closerange, but the longrange ammo type for blasters. look at Void and you will see how terrible it is.
Put in space whales!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tippia àI prefer the construction "penaltae"
Ah, with reference to the peltae (slingers) mentioned so frequently in the Illiad - very good sir.
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Chrysalis D'lilth
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:16:00 -
[12]
Correcting a persons English on a MMO forum makes you look stupid.
Null is not the hybrid close range blaster ammo, Void is.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Correcting a persons English on a MMO forum makes you look stupid.
Oh god no not my valuable e-reputation!
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Shevar
Minmatar Target Practice incorporated
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Posted - 2009.06.17 09:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Furb Killer EMP sucks also damage wise compared to other short range ammos, so compared to emp hail is pretty good.
And repeat after me: bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, bonuses, not boni and also not bonii
I think you deserve some bonii points for that. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Akhmed TDT
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tippia àI prefer the construction "penaltae"
RESPECT MY PANALTAE!
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Spurty
Caldari Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:17:00 -
[16]
yah, CCP really should remove all nerf on T2 ammo.
Faction ammo is sooooo much better.
T2 ammo is really 2nd best choice.
- t1 = cheap - t2 = hope your target isn't moving - faction = happy happy joy joy, but wallet hurts after
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here
i was thinking earlier about corpses...
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Krystal Vernet
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux why are you crying? yous guns dont use cap. you take guns like mine that can be shut off and make them more cap dependant. oh no, a small recharge bonus hit for you. oh poor baby. i got some friends who load hail once in awhile, but no one ever uses void. for good reason.
Just because they don't use cap doesn't mean any whining about their ammunition is automatically null and void.
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VoiceInTheDesert
Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Krystal Vernet
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux why are you crying? yous guns dont use cap. you take guns like mine that can be shut off and make them more cap dependant. oh no, a small recharge bonus hit for you. oh poor baby. i got some friends who load hail once in awhile, but no one ever uses void. for good reason.
Just because they don't use cap doesn't mean any whining about their ammunition is automatically null and void.
I see what you did there. |
The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Morel Nova you are also missing the fact that Null isnt closerange, but the longrange ammo type for blasters. look at Void and you will see how terrible it is.
He is useing the right numbers so I gess he just took the wrong word(Void is the close range, high DPS and Null is medium range ok DPS amno).
What the OP is actualy overlooking that the extra Damage of Void is not there(it was hardly before QR with 90% webs), actualy it deals around the same damage as standard Antimatter(tested in multiple Mega vs Hype, by comparing HP left after the fight was over, in both cases the number was around 30% structure on my Mega, there wasnŠt even orbiting in this fight) against a target that doesnŠt stand still, it is worse than faction antimatter in any way since both deal the next to same DPS and one has no tracking penalty.
Conflag is a bit better by focusing more on thermal than Multifrequency against armortanks, but still mostly pointless because of the tracking penalty against moving targets.
Hail actualy is the most usefull T2 closerange amno(not calling it good, but best of worst), since it actualy have 10% more Damage over Faction EMP and the fare better damagetypes vs armor(extrem explo heavy). Yet it is still mostly useless out of killing Blasterships that wonŠt move mutch or bigger targets.
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Triksterism
z3r0 Gravity YARRR and CO
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:58:00 -
[20]
Hail is a form of precipitation which consists of balls or irregular lumps of ice (hailstones). Hailstones on Earth usually consist mostly of water ice and measure between 5 and 150 millimeters in diameter, with the larger stones coming from severe and dangerous thunderstorms. It sometimes, though not always, occurs during a tornado warning but not as a result of a tornado itself. Hail can occur within any thunderstorm.[1] Hail is only produced by cumulonimbi (thunderclouds), usually at the front of the storm system, and is composed of transparent ice or alternating layers of transparent and translucent ice at least 1 mm thick. The METAR code for hail 5 mm or greater in diameter is GR, while smaller hailstones and graupel are coded GS. Unlike ice pellets, they are layered and can be irregular and clumped together. |
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.06.17 19:26:00 -
[21]
Boost all T2 ammo to give inventors something they can make money on |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.06.17 19:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Correcting a persons English on a MMO forum makes you look stupid.
Only morons that failed to pay attention in 3rd grade think this.
Correcting a person's English at any time is good manners, and will stop society from degenerating into a pool of idiots speaking ebonics, or yokels saying "y'all" every other word. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.17 21:09:00 -
[23]
hail can be somewhat nice, if you are in a cruiser shooting at a battleship. or have like 8 webs fit.
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Northern Fall
Minmatar Guild Academy Guild Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.17 21:22:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Edited by: Sniper Wolf18 on 17/06/2009 07:22:50
CCP hate minmatar
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Myrkala
Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2009.06.17 21:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Northern Fall
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Edited by: Sniper Wolf18 on 17/06/2009 07:22:50
CCP hate minmatar
Now look at my sig. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.06.17 23:51:00 -
[26]
This topic contains some very funny and intelligent jokes.. congrats to all the posters.
Forge '07 on Sale
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:32:00 -
[27]
You should use Scorch, it's epic and godly. |
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.18 02:53:00 -
[28]
Thanks for the replies chaps, even the infantile ones made me chuckle.
Couple of things to come back on. Of course Void is the short range ammo silly me, the fact that both long and 'short' range T2 blaster ammo gets an optimal bonus confuzzleed me.
@Djego: Thanks for the intelligent reply, it gave me some food for thought which leads me to ask this. If Conflag and Void are both useless because of the tracking penalty when Conflag doesn't suffer any range penalties at all and Void actually gets a optimal boost, what makes Hail better than both of them when it gets the exact same tracking penalty as both, a comparably bad cap penalty that applies even when the guns aren't firing, and also has its falloff halved?
As far as the damage goes having checked the numbers it appears that:
CN AM 15% > AM Void 16.6% > AM
RF EMP 15% > EMP Hail 18% > EMP
So yes on paper Hail appears to do good damage, but this fails to take into account the fact that EMP does less base damage than anybody else's most damaging T1 ammo, which just makes Hail look better damage wise than it really is. In reality Hail is only on a par damage wise with the other 'short' range T2 ammo ('short' in quotes because neither of the other turret races most damaging ammo actually gets a range penalty). So rather than Void not delivering good damage what is actually the case is that for the Gallente their faction ammo is nearly as damaging as their short range T2 (so they don't have to worry about how crap their T2 ammo is), whereas for the Minmatar their faction ammo inherits the same damage nerf from EMP.
Compound that with the fact that Hail has a penalty to just about every ship stat going including 33% off your cap recharge for an eight turret ship for just having it loaded and it still looks to me as if on the T2/faction ammo front Minmatar are getting the short end of the stick.
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Eaton d'Sorder
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Posted - 2009.06.18 12:36:00 -
[29]
plural of bonus is not boni, it is bonii
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.06.18 13:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Eaton d'Sorder plural of bonus is not boni, it is bonii
I think you'll find it is "bonuses".
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
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