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Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 13:48:00 -
[1]
There are numberous debates going on about the rights of people to salvage other people's wrecks and I don't want to restart that debate here. What I would like to do is raise the idea of Salvaging and Looting rights that a player can grant/sell to another player/corporation/alliance.
This is just an idea I had whilst trying to understand the flaws with the current salvage mechanics (note that this doesn't mean I agree with any of the varying points of view on salvage).
I thought about the idea of being able to claim Salvage Rights in the way that someone may do this in real life. This then led me to the idea of being able to do the same thing for Looting Rights; however, I don't know if this would be too complex and time consuming, even if it would improve the game for all parties.
Ideas that would need to be covered include:
1. Automatic rights for defined groups and players. e.g. Player A kills Player/NPC B and gets automatic Looting Rights. He can claim Salvaging Rights if certain conditions are met (conditions not defined at this point).
2. Ability to claim or request rights. e.g. Player A kills Player/NPC B, claims rights, loots and salvages some wrecks, but not all, and goes offline. Player C finds Player A's wrecks and requests Looting or Salvaging Rights from Player A. When certain conditions are met (conditions not defined at this point), such as time spent waiting for reply or payment to Player A, Player C is given the respective rights. (Does Player B maintains rights to their lost ship's wreck or do they have to obtain the rights from the new owner?)
3. Ability to transfer rights and a definition of what the transferred rights are. e.g. Player A can loot all wrecks of Player B within system C for D hours.
4. Consequences to bypassing the rights system will also need to be defined.
This could open up a whole new dynamic level within the game and you see the emergence of not only rights for looting and salvaging, but a market in the purchase and sale of these rights.
Ideas on a post card to the usual address...
I don't know whether I should put a sig here or not. |
Ultranoia
Temple of THEM
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Posted - 2009.06.17 13:54:00 -
[2]
No.
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Lost Hamster
Serenity and Unicum Hungarian Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.17 13:56:00 -
[3]
It would make the game way to complex. The current mechanic is just fine.
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Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:02:00 -
[4]
The current mechanic is fine.
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Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:03:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Leeluvv on 17/06/2009 14:06:29
Originally by: Lost Hamster It would make the game way to complex. The current mechanic is just fine.
So, if it's complex it shouldn't be done! Well, that doesn't bode well for the game, does it.
Originally by: Sturdy Girl The current mechanic is fine.
So how can I transfer looting rights with the current mechanics? Oh, it doesn't actually exist.
Is anyone else willing to actually think before they insist on seeing their avatar on a forum?
I don't know whether I should put a sig here or not. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Leeluvv There are numberous debates going on about the rights of people to salvage other people's wrecks
Not really, no — just some occasional whining from people who don't understand why it was put in the game. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:08:00 -
[7]
Most simple solution: Remove wreck ownership.
There would be no confusion about this issue from then on.
(Also move loot to salvaging) -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Corwain
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Leeluvv Is anyone else willing to actually think before they insist on seeing their avatar on a forum?
Judging from your little thread here I'd say no, probly not.
There are no flaws in the current salvage mechanics. Until it is in your hanger IT IS NOT YOUR SALVAGE. Have a nice day. -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Leeluvv Edited by: Leeluvv on 17/06/2009 14:06:29
Originally by: Sturdy Girl The current mechanic is fine.
So how can I transfer looting rights with the current mechanics? Oh, it doesn't actually exist.
Is anyone else willing to actually think before they insist on seeing their avatar on a forum?
No need to get shirty. Currently you can transfer the rights through mutual trust. If you can't trust the person granting you rights to the loot then your loss. Similarly you can invite looters to your gang and they have the right to take wrecks generated while in gang. No risk for either party.
The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:30:00 -
[10]
The concept of "rights" doesn't go far in the world of EVE.
I like it that way. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:31:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tippia on 17/06/2009 14:32:49
Originally by: Leeluvv So how can I transfer looting rights with the current mechanics? Oh, it doesn't actually exist.
Yes it does: Originally by: Container and wreck ownership When taking is not stealing
If you do not own a loot or jettison container, you may still have an implicit right to take from it. However, this is only if the owner of the container:- Has given you a personal standing of 10
- Is in the same player corporation as you
- Is in the same gang as you (and is located in the same solar system as you).
In other words: mechanisms for allowing people to take your loot are already in place.
Quote: Is anyone else willing to actually think before they insist on seeing their avatar on a forum?
Is anyone else willing to actually research the existing mechanics before proposing changes to them?
Simmer down and learn how the game works… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Leeluvv on 17/06/2009 15:04:18
Originally by: Tippia
If you do not own a loot or jettison container, you may still have an implicit right to take from it. However, this is only if the owner of the container:- Has given you a personal standing of 10
- Is in the same player corporation as you
- Is in the same gang as you (and is located in the same solar system as you).
This is how to share rights, not transfer rights.
I don't know whether I should put a sig here or not. |
Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:23:00 -
[13]
The second you decide that people suddenly need some kind of "right" to salvage wrecks you've already taken a stance on the issue.
Currently you don't need any rights for salvage so giving people a way of buying/selling those is
a) either pointless.
b) or based on changing the current status quo towards a system where you're somehow being punished for salvaging wrecks of others.
So, no thanks for me. --
Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sturdy Girl The current mechanic is fine.
~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
highonpop
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:38:00 -
[15]
i like the idea that i can shoot at someone for stealing my stuff.
if you enact this granting of rights mechanic, you also would need to do the same thing for cargo cans.
If someone isnt in my corp of my fleet they have no business messing with my stuff. so i will shoot them if need be.
also if im bored and would like a fight, all i need to do is go steal someone's loot. _____________________ **warp drive acti...wait, where are we going again?** Eve Online Guide ;] |
RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.06.17 21:23:00 -
[16]
No Missionbears, no salvage for you. Have some player induced risk with your cake.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.06.17 22:59:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Leeluvv What I would like to do is raise the idea of Salvaging and Looting rights that a player can grant/sell to another player/corporation/alliance.
Why do you need any rights to salvage anything? It's salvage. It belongs to no one.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.06.17 23:17:00 -
[18]
the current salvage situation is good
your ideas are dumb
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 23:23:00 -
[19]
There aren't "numerous debates", there are numerous complaints. CCP has already flatly stated their position on salvage rights over and over, and they will not be adding salvage flags.
That said, feel free to quote this for posterity in the event they actually do add those
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.06.18 03:16:00 -
[20]
In before being moved to features and ideas forum.......
seriously dont post this stuff here, if you have an idea put it in that forum, thats what it is there for.
-10 --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
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Posted - 2009.06.18 03:23:00 -
[21]
So many times I got a field of wrecks and I am too tired or drunk to sal them, so I raise the flag in local asking if anyone wants to salvage and nobody answers.
Either people WANT to steal it and see it being given to them as boring, or they think it's a trap, or by now everybody in local has blocked me for being a weeniehead.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:39:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 18/06/2009 05:39:04 The only fix the current system needs is to be able to tractor a yellow wreck / can (with appropriate flagging).
Looting / salvaging rights are way too complicated and totally unnecessary. If you and your buddy are out doing whatever and he's cleaning up, does it matter if he flashes red? Why do you care? Just make him able to tractor the wrecks and all will be fine! |
Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:46:00 -
[23]
Hi! Your idea.. Its ****! |
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:58:00 -
[24]
Moved to " Features & Ideas Discussion ".
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Gray Phantom
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:35:00 -
[25]
Quote: I thought about the idea of being able to claim Salvage Rights in the way that someone may do this in real life.
But you didnt think very much did you. Because you didnt reaserch real life salvage rights very well.
After a full 2 mins research -
in maritime law, the rescue of a ship or its cargo on navigable waters from a peril that, except for the rescuerÆs assistance, would have led to the loss or destruction of the property. Under some jurisdictions, aircraft may also be salved. Except for salvage performed under contract, the rescuerùknown as the salvorùmust act voluntarily without being under any legal duty to do so, apart from the general duty to give assistance to those in peril at sea or to stand by after a collision. So long as the owner or his agent remains on the ship, unwanted offers of salvage may be refused. A derelictùa vessel found entirely deserted or abandoned without hope or intention of recoveryùis, however, fair game for anyone who comes across it. Typical acts of salvage include releasing ships that have run aground or on reefs, raising sunken ships (or their cargo), putting out fires, and so on.
To help you I bolded some. Oh and just because you shot the ship to create the wreck does not make you the 'owner'. The owner is some poor exploded Sansha pilot. You are lucky the loot is tagged as yours.
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leich
Amarr Knights of the Old Empire
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:37:00 -
[26]
FAIL
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente The NightClub
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:41:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 18/06/2009 15:41:54 The easiest solution to the whole "problem" is quite obvious.
When you salvage a wreck with loot still in it, what happens? A jet can spawns.
So... change it such that killing a ship immediately spawns a neutral wreck and a corp tagged jet can.
Then any salvager can tractor the wreck, while only the combatant and their friends can tractor the jet can.
That way salvaging remains an open ended profession, while the combatant can still claim their loot.
EDIT: For those who would suggest lag or whatever... they'd both time out after the usual 2hrs. And you can set your Overview to only display Wrecks or only Jet Cans if that is what you're after. |
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