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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
CommmanderInChief
Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2009.06.19 18:35:00 -
[91]
interesting seeing i posted this http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1096146 |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.19 19:54:00 -
[92]
The one big miss in the dev blog is the faction ships or tech 2 ships. Yes yes yes, for sheer numbers they don't compare, but nonetheless, normalized against against a newb/veteran ratio (call say 10M skill points veteran say), I'd bet some of the faction ships (or tech 2) for PvE are more popular than the Raven/Domi combo.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.06.19 22:02:00 -
[93]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 19/06/2009 22:06:10
A market graph of all frigate weapons compared would be pretty funny too when you got to the part about rockets.
They are so bad I dont even care if I remembered to fit the rocket lauchers or not when I take something like the malediction out, I'm only there to tackle and that alone gets me on the killmail.
I once lost a warp scrambled pod that managed to slowboat back to the gate once despite smacking it senseless with tech 2 rockets, I didn't know any better at the time but looking back now I can't believe it when the Crusader alpha's pods in one salvo most of the time.
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CCP Diagoras
C C P
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Posted - 2009.06.19 22:30:00 -
[94]
Me? I'd never troll. Thanks a lot for the comments regarding Minmatar so far though, they'll be passed on My apologies for not being able to respond in a timely manner, rumours of my demise (or in this case, firing) are however greatly exaggerated.
To answer one question that has come up a couple of times, tier 3 battleships were left out this time as there was a lot more history to the other ship tiers, and there is only a limited amount that can really be put into a single blog. I'm sure they will make an appearance sooner or later, but for this blog it was felt that the tier one and two battleships should be looked into first.
Originally by: Eventy One The one big miss in the dev blog is the faction ships or tech 2 ships. Yes yes yes, for sheer numbers they don't compare, but nonetheless, normalized against against a newb/veteran ratio (call say 10M skill points veteran say), I'd bet some of the faction ships (or tech 2) for PvE are more popular than the Raven/Domi combo.
You have a good point here, and I can say that it is likely that more of the tech two ships will be shown in some form in the future.
Originally by: Razin When can we talk about delayed 0.0 Local and the new ships scanning tools to replace it's intel gathering functionality? CCP Zulupark was planning for something in Q1 of this year, and we're past that. Thanks!
Not my area I'm afraid. I'm a research type, not a game design type. |
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.06.19 22:39:00 -
[95]
Oh, I've another one.
Do a comparison of destroyers.
The Thrasher should come out considerably higher than the Cormorant, Coercer and Catalyst since it's made of win. |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.06.20 01:13:00 -
[96]
Originally by: CCP Diagoras Me? I'd never troll. Thanks a lot for the comments regarding Minmatar so far though, they'll be passed on My apologies for not being able to respond in a timely manner, rumours of my demise (or in this case, firing) are however greatly exaggerated.
It would have made a nice troll, but feel free to pass things along, the commentary on Minmatar is pretty...... far reaching - and it's not like CCP (game design) does not *KNOW* that the public at large is fed up with Minnie ships/projectiles. Hell, I'm sure you saw the thread linked here a couple of times....
Originally by: CCP Game Design Team What's wrong with Eve balance?
Originally by: Eve players in a largely united voice MINMATAR BS's AND PROJECTILES SUCK
Originally by: CCP Game Design Team What's that? ECM drones? I'll get right on it!
Sigh. They have never acknowledged the (MANY) issues, and every time any one of them's ever been pinned down into answering it they say that not only are Minnie BS's not bad, but that they're good. Which either shows that they're out of touch with the game or outright delusional. /shrug
Quote: Not my area I'm afraid. I'm a research type, not a game design type.
Yeah, that's ok man, they don't let people who do have anything to do with game design near the actual game, let alone the forums. I'm a numbers guy myself (Data warehousing) so have fun and best of luck.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.20 03:59:00 -
[97]
Originally by: CCP Diagoras Thanks a lot for the comments regarding Minmatar so far though, they'll be passed on
Thank you for that assurance. I hope you don't resent the hijacking of the discussion thread too much, but the game's most loyal Minmatar players are a frustrated group, currently.
I'm curious, though; does data and analysis that is similar to or that maybe goes deeper than presented in the blog get presented to the balancing team, as part of the evidence they use to determine where might be potential balance issues? Has the use of statistical evidence even been considered as being a part of their toolkit?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.20 12:19:00 -
[98]
Regarding Minmatar, there doesn't seem to be any real consensus on why their battleships are the least popular. If you have any theories on why this is, feel free to discuss this in the comments thread.
and you guys call yourselves "devs"
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.20 12:47:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Dracira Dracc
Originally by: Needa3
- raven: worthless
For lvl 4 Mission a CM Raven i not a bad ship, far away from being worthless.
Anyway - that was one of the more interesting blogs for me ;-)
you do realize he was talking about fleets. that and you should look up the burn eden nano cnrs
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.20 12:48:00 -
[100]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Oh, I've another one.
Do a comparison of destroyers.
The Thrasher should come out considerably higher than the Cormorant, Coercer and Catalyst since it's made of win.
doubtful, I have a good few cormorants, just for that whole salvaging thing. not to mention the other 1039023 thousand caldari players.
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Galan Undris
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Posted - 2009.06.20 12:59:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Galan Undris on 20/06/2009 13:03:36
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Game Design Team What's wrong with Eve balance?
Originally by: Eve players in a largely united voice MINMATAR BS's AND PROJECTILES SUCK
Originally by: CCP Game Design Team What's that? ECM drones? I'll get right on it!
More blatant ignorance than that thread is hard to come by tbh. Almost everyone comments ot large projectiles/Minnie BS and it's somehow channeled into ECM drones
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.06.20 18:25:00 -
[102]
Originally by: CCP Diagoras
Originally by: Razin When can we talk about delayed 0.0 Local and the new ships scanning tools to replace it's intel gathering functionality? CCP Zulupark was planning for something in Q1 of this year, and we're past that. Thanks!
Not my area I'm afraid. I'm a research type, not a game design type.
Thanks for your reply!) I'm just looking to draw any dev's attention to this thread. Didn't mean to imply it was all up to you! |
Athea G'man
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Posted - 2009.06.20 23:07:00 -
[103]
Originally by: CCP Diagoras
Not my area I'm afraid. I'm a research type, not a game design type.
As a pointer for more research (and more yummy yummy graphs!) how about a comparison of BS trade volume and the populations of the four races? Amarr and Minmatar are the smallest populations, so it's not surprising that those BS have the smallest trade volume. (Amarr BSs have only slightly more market share than Minmatars, but no one's running around saying how much Amarr BSs suck.) Start with a null hypothesis that market share and population are exactly proportional, and disprove it before you say that Minnie BSs suck.
That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to a little buff on my 'Pest.
A
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Ikar Kaltin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.21 11:27:00 -
[104]
I notice how there is no comment upon the popularity of the Pilgrim and Arazu after they were both nerfed. Its right that they were each originally equally popular due to their specialised roles, but the falcon became so popular not only because of the strength of ECM but because of the uselessness of the other ships. This really needs to be rebalnced to be honest (buff force recons!)
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Star's Dust Industrie
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Posted - 2009.06.21 17:49:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 21/06/2009 17:50:37
Originally by: CCP Diagoras Me? I'd never troll.
I think ppl here had fast violent reactions... Almost matari reactions :)
Originally by: CCP Diagoras Thanks a lot for the comments regarding Minmatar so far though, they'll be passed on
If CCP work on Minnie ships, you have a mountain of work. imho with ships whose size >= BC size, speed shouldn't be considered as an asset anymore. Fetchez la vache ! moar(tm) < soon(tm) :(
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galphi
Gallente Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:53:00 -
[106]
I love the typhoon, for both pvp and mission running. It's large drone bay, use of missiles and turrets plus a solid armour tank give it great flexibility. It does take longer to train for though, and I see that being part of the reason why it's less popular. The Tempest is practically obsolete, with the Maelstrom besting it in just about every situation. DPS on arty and AC's is less than other turrets so that's a factor in Matari battleships being less popular too.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.06.22 19:41:00 -
[107]
I think it would be good for game design to increase alpha strike of artillery weapons, while maintaining same DPS. This was the case in early game design but was pushed back by the massive HP changes, and gradually forgotten with all the other tweaks to game balance. It's about time to give artillery a clear edge.
Minmatar battleships emphasize speed and agility, but the latest patches punish speed tactics on battleship. There's a conflict of design which makes their speed and agility near-useless as an advantage. Now battleships are primarily judged by their ability to tank and gank - both of which aren't strengths of minmatar bs. The main redeeming feature of Tempest and Typhoon is their ability to add 2 heavy neuts without gimping tank and gank setups.
On unrelated note, I would like to point out that the majority of players are empire carebears - the mission runners. They buy a large number of ships. The way those people use their ships, the qualities they like in a ship, are significantly different from the way PvPers use their ships. If CCP relies purely on market statistics to get a view of ship performance, they are taking a weighted average of carebears (heavy) and pvpers (light). Thus, the pvpers are getting short end of the stick here.
However, recon data is pretty accurate - since carebears have no need of recons. |
Malarkey
Minmatar Twisted Creations
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Posted - 2009.06.22 21:46:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Ephemeron If CCP relies purely on market statistics to get a view of ship performance, they are taking a weighted average of carebears (heavy) and pvpers (light). Thus, the pvpers are getting short end of the stick here.
But PVPrs lose more ships than PVErs, so they would be more represented in the market statistics. No?
Personally,I wouldnt want to suggest where you should put the end of that stick) |
Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.06.23 05:36:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 23/06/2009 05:39:31
Originally by: Kane Plekkel Nobody likes Minmatar battleships BECAUSE OF FALCON
tbh, I dunno. I've always preferred projectiles to hybrids, and armor tanking > shield tanking...perhaps its the bits of scrap they leave behind in salvage?
Because the CCP made it the minmatar BSs so crap. Those ships unuseable. Double training times and worst BSs in the game. |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.06.24 02:05:00 -
[110]
Hun Jakuza, don't forget that during the nano-age, Phoons were very popular, at least by the smart pvpers |
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.24 07:29:00 -
[111]
do you have similar data for pulse lasers? ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.06.25 05:52:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 25/06/2009 05:51:55
Originally by: Ephemeron Hun Jakuza, don't forget that during the nano-age, Phoons were very popular, at least by the smart pvpers
Ephemeron You told the magic words "were" Two mwd in ship "were", and anothers things same "were", but we i think not talking the past we talking game balance.
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HankMurphy
Minmatar XERCORE Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.06.25 10:45:00 -
[113]
"Regarding Minmatar, there doesn't seem to be any real consensus on why their battleships are the least popular. If you have any theories on why this is, feel free to discuss this in the comments thread."
It was at this point i began to regret the (likely) hours of my life i had spent discussing matar ships and pointing out the various reasons many of them now suck.
When you write those posts you like to think "hey, maybe ccp might get a couple ideas from me.. maybe if i am articulate and persistent my favorite ships might be worth flying again.
What is worse? The above quote, the lack of any dev reply to minmatar threads or the fact that they just stopped discussing the balancing issues after picking 3 of the weakest issues in the game at the moment (though the nag got love!, that's hardly worth praise. I don't get praise at work when i happen to do what is expected of me)
Its like waiting patiently for your food at the restaurant for 45 minutes, only to realize upon asking the waitress that they totally forgot your order completely. |
Fish Mittens
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.06.25 13:22:00 -
[114]
Originally by: The Mittani there's no consensus on what's wrong with minmatar bs because there are so many things wrong with them
ugh
This, The Mittens speaks truth. |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.06.25 17:21:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Fish Mittens
Originally by: The Mittani there's no consensus on what's wrong with minmatar bs because there are so many things wrong with them
ugh
This, The Mittens speaks truth.
The fact that Typhoon, Minmatar battleship, was very powerful and useful in PvP before the Great Speed Nerf, shows that it doesn't take much for the ship to be fixed. It was working with nano, it was broken by CCP along with many other ships. But we already know what works and what doesn't work. It's not a guessing game. The fix we can use was already tested on TQ for months and proved to be successful. We have can look back at that successful performance and compare it to today's unsuccessful performance, then draw conclusions based on facts. There's no need to theorize at what might be if we tried something we never did before.
Tempest, on other hand, was only a little better during nano-age than it is now. It has its good moments, with 2 neutralizer setups
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.06.25 23:26:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Game Design Team What's wrong with Eve balance?
Originally by: Eve players in a largely united voice MINMATAR BS's AND PROJECTILES SUCK
Originally by: CCP Game Design Team What's that? ECM drones? I'll get right on it!
Sigh. They have never acknowledged the (MANY) issues, and every time any one of them's ever been pinned down into answering it they say that not only are Minnie BS's not bad, but that they're good. Which either shows that they're out of touch with the game or outright delusional. /shrug
-Liang
Painfully accurate.
Remember Zulupark seriously suggesting we all fit Medium Proj. on the Tempest?
I now think CCP are willfully ignoring the balance situation Re: Matar and Proj. due to some long term balancing plan; cycle which race is nerf'd to death carefully at any point in time and you can extend people subscriptions and stp them maxxing out a race and getting bored.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.06.25 23:29:00 -
[117]
Edited by: RedSplat on 25/06/2009 23:29:40 I would love to see an analysis of Pulse laser (Medium and large) market share over the last 3 years.
One thng i clear, CCP 'balancing' tends to promote sharp polarizing effects in the chosen measure of a weapon or ships popularit.
Thats not balancing, thats knee-jerk use of the nerf hammer.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.06.26 08:02:00 -
[118]
I'm very happy to see data from CCP clearly showing that amarr is not, as a headstrong minority keep whining about, a FOTM. There's been a somewhat raising trend for maybe one year that has reverted back to the starting point in one month. Thanks for some clear data!
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.06.26 17:34:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara I'm very happy to see data from CCP clearly showing that amarr is not, as a headstrong minority keep whining about, a FOTM. There's been a somewhat raising trend for maybe one year that has reverted back to the starting point in one month. Thanks for some clear data!
Battleship data is highly inaccurate due to being diluted by large percentage of carebears.
If you take that graph for face value, you'd think that Raven is the most uber powerful ship ever that pwns all other battleships. |
Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.06.28 14:14:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 28/06/2009 14:14:51
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara I'm very happy to see data from CCP clearly showing that amarr is not, as a headstrong minority keep whining about, a FOTM. There's been a somewhat raising trend for maybe one year that has reverted back to the starting point in one month. Thanks for some clear data!
Battleship data is highly inaccurate due to being diluted by large percentage of carebears.
If you take that graph for face value, you'd think that Raven is the most uber powerful ship ever that pwns all other battleships.
No. That's it sum of the all pve and pvp ship data.
Matar battleships is crap. Everyone know that, but you try to tell for everyone, everything fine with minmatar battleships. LOL Maybe you are a CCP dev alt.
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