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Six Across
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Posted - 2009.06.18 12:24:00 -
[1]
Whilst cloaks are essential for SB's and Black Ops, does anyone ever use them to good effect with more 'regular' ships? Whenever a fitting on BC appears with a cloak, they seem to attract a lot of bad thoughts. What I want to know is if anyone has tried them on other ships, and their success (or failiure) with the experiment.
Thanks in advance.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.06.18 13:05:00 -
[2]
They are good for ambushes and deep behind enemy lines operations. Also nice to be able to take a break cloaked in a safe spot without having to be worried to be scanned out. If you are in a gang and someone has not brought one it is pretty useless. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.18 16:12:00 -
[3]
The basic cloak you can fit on a regular ship is really crappy as it thoroughly gimps your speed while it's on - but - there are certain situations where it can really save your ass.
Essentially, if you can come up with a reason to want to hide somewhere and do something that doesn't require a lot of movement - they work great. If you need to do a lot of movement ... then they're of limited use.
Ambushes are mentioned - scouting stuff like that.
I've used them to sit off at a distance from a Jump Gate in Low Sec - watching that gate so I could let the other guys in my Corp know what was going on there.
So it's mostly ... warp somewhere ... maybe move around a little ... then turn on the cloak and sit. Then ... when it's time to do whatever it is you're going to do - you mostly turn the cloak off - and go do that.
They're a cheap little piece of crap compared to the better cloaks but - being able to just be frakking invisible - can be really handy at times so they're well worth what they cost.
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Pierre Dumonte
Aurora Security
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Posted - 2009.06.18 17:47:00 -
[4]
the cloak also gimps your scan resolution, making it take longer to lock targets.
so if you are going to be using it for ambushing you will need to put on a sensor booster and scan res script as well.
also very good for hiding your discophoon, or dictor from scanners.
however the only ships that dont really have any adverse effects from cloaks are those that can warp cloaked. if you need to hide, the cloak is there for that purpose |
Six Across
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Posted - 2009.06.18 17:51:00 -
[5]
Like all things in this game, it seems to have a definite downside. Most of the anti-cloak flak that I've read concerns people sacrificing (sometimes crucial) highslots, but I'm assuming there are people who believe in the value of an ambush much more. |
ZardoZ RadiX
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.18 18:35:00 -
[6]
Edited by: ZardoZ RadiX on 18/06/2009 18:36:06 I can see it as a good strategy to use when probing low sec areas, having only a cruiser, I have been chased out of low sec areas more times than I can count by player bigger ships when either salvaging my kills or probing. Not big enough or have the higer skills to take them on yet, cloaking seems to be a good idea.
"The only time you have to much ammo is when you're on fire." |
Saehta
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi
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Posted - 2009.06.18 19:38:00 -
[7]
I use the cloak on my indy if I'm waiting in safespots to move about
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.06.19 05:57:00 -
[8]
Please also consider that a cloak on any non-cloaking-by-design ship is gonna get both nerfed scan resolution (making you take twice the time to target something) and also get a 30 second locking delay after decloaking, which means you need to wait 30 seconds before you can even start locking something. ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a game of adaptation and planning. Adapt or die. |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.06.19 08:11:00 -
[9]
Uses of normal cloaks.
Prototype cloak: Warp to safespot + cloak. Typical tactic for people ratting/missioning in hostile areas.
Improved cloak: mwd + cloak trick to pass gatecamps (very effective in lowsec, not so good in 0.0). |
ZardoZ RadiX
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.19 12:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Uses of normal cloaks.
Prototype cloak: Warp to safespot + cloak. Typical tactic for people ratting/missioning in hostile areas.
Improved cloak: mwd + cloak trick to pass gatecamps (very effective in lowsec, not so good in 0.0).
Why is it not so good in 0,0 sectors? Is there equipment that can detect a cloaked ship?
"The only time you have to much ammo is when you're on fire." |
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.19 12:29:00 -
[11]
I assume he's talking about bubbles that will keep you from warping that can't be used outside of 0.0 space.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
ZardoZ RadiX
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.19 12:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk I assume he's talking about bubbles that will keep you from warping that can't be used outside of 0.0 space.
If you are cloaked, you can move out of the bubble then warp?
"The only time you have to much ammo is when you're on fire." |
T'ealk O'Neil
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Posted - 2009.06.19 15:29:00 -
[13]
Edited by: T''ealk O''Neil on 19/06/2009 15:32:02
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Uses of normal cloaks.
Prototype cloak: Warp to safespot + cloak. Typical tactic for people ratting/missioning in hostile areas.
Improved cloak: mwd + cloak trick to pass gatecamps (very effective in lowsec, not so good in 0.0).
Actually the mwd+cloak trick will get you past most 0.0 bubbled gate camps. No need for the mwd+warp in low sec as no bubbles
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.19 17:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ZardoZ RadiX
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk I assume he's talking about bubbles that will keep you from warping that can't be used outside of 0.0 space.
If you are cloaked, you can move out of the bubble then warp?
Yes, in theory. But you only get the speed boost of the MWD for one cycle (10 seconds), and the speed penalty of the cloak applies when you activate it meaning that you're travelling barely above your base speed for those 10 seconds - which is unlikely to be enough to get you out of the bubble. Then you have to crawl slowly out of it at one-quarter of your base speed, while their interceptors fly around trying to decloak you and standing a very[/v] good chance of succeeding, due to your slow speed.
Plus, if you do make it out of the bubble, you can't just decloak and warp - the MWD_cloak trick works because you deactivate the cloak while the MWD is still active. At this point your MWD is long inactive, so you'll still need to accelerate from 25% speed to 75% speed before warping, during which time you will easily be pointed by interceptors. Thus to be safe, you'd have to slowboat something ridiculous like 50km away from the camp and then decloak + warp.
Originally by: T'ealk O'Neil Actually the mwd+cloak trick will get you past most 0.0 bubbled gate camps.
It won't reliably work in bubblecamps for the reasons above.
Quote: No need for the mwd+warp in low sec as no bubbles
What? Ships don't align instantly, you know, and bubbles aren't the only things that can stop you warping. If you take a battleship/industrial through a lowsec gatecamp, they [b]will target you and point you before you're fully aligned. I'm not sure what you expect to happen in this situation...
Using the MWD+cloak trick properly, you're targetable for about 1 second initially while the cloak activates, and about 1 second at the end before the MWD deactivates. Much better, and nothing that can tank gate guns is likely to lock you in this timeframe.
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ZardoZ RadiX
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.21 13:20:00 -
[15]
I fell victim to a lowsec gatecamp yesterday. I had a warp core stabaliser II and it did not work, like I was stuck in some kind of large warp disruptor field, maybe one of the bubbles mentioned in this discussion? I got destroyed in five seconds by missiles. If I cloaked, (I was in an Omen), would it have saved me? How long can a cloak hold active?
"The only time you have to much ammo is when you're on fire." |
Cyprus Black
Caldari 4 wing Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.06.21 16:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ZardoZ RadiX I fell victim to a lowsec gatecamp yesterday. I had a warp core stabaliser II and it did not work, like I was stuck in some kind of large warp disruptor field, maybe one of the bubbles mentioned in this discussion? I got destroyed in five seconds by missiles. If I cloaked, (I was in an Omen), would it have saved me? How long can a cloak hold active?
Your aggressors probably had a higher value in warp disruption than you did for warp stabilization. They do stack. |
ZardoZ RadiX
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.21 17:28:00 -
[17]
They must have had some pretty strong disruptors, for I was at least 15km away from them.
"The only time you have to much ammo is when you're on fire." |
Draeath
Mayhem Brothers Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.21 17:39:00 -
[18]
If your going to use a cloak to ambush, don't forget about passive targs.
Does it matter if it takes you 10x the time to target them, if they don't see you do it?
I've never fit either device though. I'm assuming you can remain cloaked while your passive targ is working? |
ZardoZ RadiX
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.21 20:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Draeath If your going to use a cloak to ambush, don't forget about passive targs.
Does it matter if it takes you 10x the time to target them, if they don't see you do it?
I've never fit either device though. I'm assuming you can remain cloaked while your passive targ is working?
Can you shoot while cloaked? That would be too much of an advantage... I am assuming cloaking takes a lot of power, and would it not use ip the capacitors if you shoot while cloaked? |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.06.21 21:07:00 -
[20]
I've used a cloak on an Arbitrator for ambushing. That's a drone-carrier so it doesn't need its high slots much. I would cloak at a planet with lots of asteroid belts where I knew someone was ratting, then scan each belt in turn. Decloak, and warp to the belt, and by the time I arrived my cooldown was over and I could lock and shoot.
........... The Fighting Republicans are recruiting! |
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.22 12:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ZardoZ RadiX They must have had some pretty strong disruptors, for I was at least 15km away from them.
All it would take would be two of the most basic disruptors in the game to overcome your single WCS - so if there was more than one player there this would be almost a certainty. Alternatively, a Heavy Interdictor's WDFG would have nullified any number of WCS you had (and yeah, that would could as a pretty strong disruptor)
Originally by: Draeath If your going to use a cloak to ambush, don't forget about passive targs.
Does it matter if it takes you 10x the time to target them, if they don't see you do it?
I've never fit either device though. I'm assuming you can remain cloaked while your passive targ is working?
Erm - no, you cannot remain cloaked while targeting ships. (And it does seem strange that you're offering definitive advice without checking whether your advice is valid... )
Passive targeters are still almost never useful for actual combat, given that the only time they would have an effect is if you want to lock a single target but not activate any offensive modules on them (and you want to sacrifice a midslot so that the other guy doesn't know you've got a lock on him). If you're activating offensive modules, you'll go straight to solid red brackets/flashy red background and the passive targeter hasn't achieved anything (something that a lot of people seem not to notice).
In any case, you cannot target while cloaked so it's a bit of a moot point.
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ZardoZ RadiX
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.06.24 12:32:00 -
[22]
Would you use passive targeter to scan a ship. or does the moment you use a scanner, does the target become active? |
Milo Caman
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.06.24 14:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: ZardoZ RadiX They must have had some pretty strong disruptors, for I was at least 15km away from them.
Soudns like you got caught by a HIC. These have an 'Infini-Point', and no amount of Warp Stabs can save you. The Actual Bubble only works in 0.0, but the effect will still be used when they point you normally.
Out of Sinq |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.06.24 15:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: ZardoZ RadiX Would you use passive targeter to scan a ship. or does the moment you use a scanner, does the target become active?
Right, this is the only real use for a passive targeter. You can scan all you want and they won't know you're doing it.
........... I'm looking for a job: clicky clicky |
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