Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.06.25 21:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello all,
I just want to pop in and say that someone from Customer Support will be along shortly to clarify this matter in detail for you all. Replies to an earlier post have been deleted so as not confuse others.
Thank you.
KNEW it was too good to be true...
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.06.25 21:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello all,
I just want to pop in and say that someone from Customer Support will be along shortly to clarify this matter in detail for you all. Replies to an earlier post have been deleted so as not confuse others.
Thank you.
Wow. Navigator just layed down the law in here about wardecs. I still think im right in my post. But i am open to being corrected. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
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GM Nythanos
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Posted - 2009.06.25 21:58:00 -
[33]
Hello,
For #1, Closing a corporation and opening a new one with the same members is allowed, and the people who declared war on your now closed corporation can declare a new war on your new corporation if they choose to do so.
For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
To help clarify this, there are restrictions with regards to joining and leaving corporation, such as mentioned here: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2317&tid=1
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J McAllen
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Posted - 2009.06.25 22:09:00 -
[34]
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #1, Closing a corporation and opening a new one with the same members is allowed, and the people who declared war on your now closed corporation can declare a new war on your new corporation if they choose to do so.
That makes some sense - it would be difficult, if not impossible, to prevent this.
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
This however doesn't make as much sense though - with the current war costs being low at best, wouldn't a further ISK sink (which would continue indefinitely), removing more currency form the universe and adding a new form of 'economic PvP' make sense compared to the other forms of PvP that are out there already?
Eve is, after all , a harsh place, however removing this option to 'fight back' using ISK against an aggressor doesn't make much sense, not to mention it would be hard to effectively police - can you check every wardec against every corp, and see if there are accounts with character on both sides?
Just trying to work out the reasoning, as this doesn't make anyone 'immune' from wars the same way the iMune Empire thing did, and is a fairly elegant solution to a somewhat overlooked and ignored mechanism. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.25 22:18:00 -
[35]
Wait. I thought EVE-Uni used #2 rather often? |
Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.06.25 22:30:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Daemonspirit on 25/06/2009 22:30:23
Originally by: J McAllen
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
This however doesn't make as much sense though - with the current war costs being low at best, wouldn't a further ISK sink (which would continue indefinitely), removing more currency form the universe and adding a new form of 'economic PvP' make sense compared to the other forms of PvP that are out there already?
Eve is, after all , a harsh place, however removing this option to 'fight back' using ISK against an aggressor doesn't make much sense, not to mention it would be hard to effectively police - can you check every wardec against every corp, and see if there are accounts with character on both sides?
Just trying to work out the reasoning, as this doesn't make anyone 'immune' from wars the same way the iMune Empire thing did, and is a fairly elegant solution to a somewhat overlooked and ignored mechanism.
"Ignored" is right. And your right on the other item: It doesn't make you immune to wars, just increases the cost to the aggressors...
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Wait. I thought EVE-Uni used #2 rather often?
No, but they should.
Twice to the best of my knowledge...
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Kelduum Revaan
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.06.25 22:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Wait. I thought EVE-Uni used #2 rather often?
I'm not sure a total of two counts as 'often', especially when the most recent one of them was 6 months ago, and after lengthy discussions with the GM's its not going to happen again.
We do have more than a few wars where people don't want to fight after the first couple of days though - we've been at war constantly since February in fact - but all of them have at least been fought to some extent, and we don't seem to attract more than two at once.
-- Kelduum Revaan Director of Operations Eve University |
Caphelo
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Posted - 2009.06.25 22:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
So you're saying it's ok for PVP corps to grief PVE corps until they quit the game, but it's not ok for those PVE corps to grief the PVP corps using their wallet. How is that fair? |
Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.06.25 22:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Caphelo
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
So you're saying it's ok for PVP corps to grief PVE corps until they quit the game, but it's not ok for those PVE corps to grief the PVP corps using their wallet. How is that fair?
Heh - Logical Fallacy pointed out, you won't win any friends with that! ;)
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Lt Mooncat
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Posted - 2009.06.25 22:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Caphelo
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
So you're saying it's ok for PVP corps to grief PVE corps until they quit the game, but it's not ok for those PVE corps to grief the PVP corps using their wallet. How is that fair?
Yes. He is saying that war deccing a Corp which has failed to prepare for every event is ok. He is saying that it is ok to war dec Corps run by clueless CEOs who has recruited 95% of his members by spamming 5 minute old rookies on the undock in the starter systems with evemails saying 'We help new players'. That is exactly what he is saying.
If you are that desperate to avoid a war you always have option #1 |
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.06.25 23:03:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Lt Mooncat
Originally by: Caphelo
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
So you're saying it's ok for PVP corps to grief PVE corps until they quit the game, but it's not ok for those PVE corps to grief the PVP corps using their wallet. How is that fair?
Yes. He is saying that war deccing a Corp which has failed to prepare for every event is ok. He is saying that it is ok to war dec Corps run by clueless CEOs who has recruited 95% of his members by spamming 5 minute old rookies on the undock in the starter systems with evemails saying 'We help new players'. That is exactly what he is saying.
If you are that desperate to avoid a war you always have option #1
Yeah, god forbid that Mercantile alliances/Corps should use Mercantile or Political means to achieve their goals... thats totally ridiculous!
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
steave435
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.26 06:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Irdalth Delrar Edited by: Irdalth Delrar on 25/06/2009 23:18:22 After a 3 month grief war by the Privateers sometime last year, many supporters of the Uni did declare war on us in an effort to raise the cost of war. While I'm sure some of these were Uni alts, many of them were well-wishers attempting to help us get out of war. Since it came into contention near the end of that war, the Uni has yet since used nor advocated the technique. With it officially being declared an exploit, the Uni does not support its use at this time.
Edited for clarity.
Come on, give us a break here...First, the war lasted only 2 months, secondly it's well known that alt corps were used, and they were run by director alts. It was also used a second time not long ago. You were also using it for AGES before that with poison ivy or whatever it's called, just to a lesser extent.
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Originally by: Lt Mooncat
Originally by: Caphelo
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
So you're saying it's ok for PVP corps to grief PVE corps until they quit the game, but it's not ok for those PVE corps to grief the PVP corps using their wallet. How is that fair?
Yes. He is saying that war deccing a Corp which has failed to prepare for every event is ok. He is saying that it is ok to war dec Corps run by clueless CEOs who has recruited 95% of his members by spamming 5 minute old rookies on the undock in the starter systems with evemails saying 'We help new players'. That is exactly what he is saying.
If you are that desperate to avoid a war you always have option #1
Yeah, god forbid that Mercantile alliances/Corps should use Mercantile or Political means to achieve their goals... thats totally ridiculous!
Hire mercs to keep them busy. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei
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Posted - 2009.06.26 07:10:00 -
[43]
Quote: Hello,
For #1, Closing a corporation and opening a new one with the same members is allowed, and the people who declared war on your now closed corporation can declare a new war on your new corporation if they choose to do so.
For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
To help clarify this, there are restrictions with regards to joining and leaving corporation, such as mentioned here: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2317&tid=1
Then you may want to recheck Faraday Corp for example, the people behind it and the answers we got from petitions.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.06.26 10:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: steave435
Come on, give us a break here...First, the war lasted only 2 months, secondly it's well known that alt corps were used, and they were run by director alts. It was also used a second time not long ago. You were also using it for AGES before that with poison ivy or whatever it's called, just to a lesser extent.
Not all were director alts, some were Players... Who are still playing...
Originally by: Daemonspirit Yeah, god forbid that Mercantile alliances/Corps should use Mercantile or Political means to achieve their goals... thats totally ridiculous!
Originally by: steave435 Hire mercs to keep them busy.
What if they prefer to bribe the same people that got bribed to allow the war to start in the first place...? OH NOES! ECONOMIC PVP!!eleventy-one...
Bah. ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Laudicia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.26 11:08:00 -
[45]
Originally by: GM Nythanos Hello,
For #1, Closing a corporation and opening a new one with the same members is allowed, and the people who declared war on your now closed corporation can declare a new war on your new corporation if they choose to do so.
For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
To help clarify this, there are restrictions with regards to joining and leaving corporation, such as mentioned here: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2317&tid=1
whats this new rulez? i have seen GM reply`s which state that corp hopping to avoid war is not alloud.. or starting new
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Crode
Minmatar Eve University
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Posted - 2009.06.26 17:29:00 -
[46]
Wouldn't it be cool if CCP decided to actually fix the game mechanics instead of labeling things exploit/not exploit? |
Friherre Jubalong
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Posted - 2009.06.27 07:33:00 -
[47]
So when the PvP'ers use the game mechanics to kill the PvE'ers, that's ok. But when the PvE'ers use THE SAME game mechanics to make it more expensive to kill them (not impossible, just expensive), that's an exploit. How is that not hypocritical by CCP?
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Lt Mooncat
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Posted - 2009.06.27 09:53:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Lt Mooncat on 27/06/2009 09:54:18
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Originally by: Lt Mooncat
Originally by: Caphelo
Originally by: GM Nythanos For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
So you're saying it's ok for PVP corps to grief PVE corps until they quit the game, but it's not ok for those PVE corps to grief the PVP corps using their wallet. How is that fair?
Yes. He is saying that war deccing a Corp which has failed to prepare for every event is ok. He is saying that it is ok to war dec Corps run by clueless CEOs who has recruited 95% of his members by spamming 5 minute old rookies on the undock in the starter systems with evemails saying 'We help new players'. That is exactly what he is saying.
If you are that desperate to avoid a war you always have option #1
Yeah, god forbid that Mercantile alliances/Corps should use Mercantile or Political means to achieve their goals... thats totally ridiculous!
GM said it was an exploit. Which means any argument you put forward is now completely worthless. |
Slave 775
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.27 10:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: GM Nythanos Hello,
For #1, Closing a corporation and opening a new one with the same members is allowed, and the people who declared war on your now closed corporation can declare a new war on your new corporation if they choose to do so.
For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
To help clarify this, there are restrictions with regards to joining and leaving corporation, such as mentioned here: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2317&tid=1
You guys change your minds pretty often tbh.
now i know why there isnt a a forumpage where you clearely state all exploits. Would be pretty hard to explain why you changed your mind again.
Right now its ask 3 GM¦s and get 3 different anwsers to the same question.
Every big company these days has someting called quality managment, i wonder if CCP has one too but tbh i doubt it.
Centuries ago, the Bible warned of dangers posed by evil men described as master[s] at evil ideas and scheming to do bad. (Proverbs 24:8) PRIVATEERS Officialy nerfed by CCP 05/07 |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2009.06.27 14:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Slave 775 You guys change your minds pretty often tbh.
This has gone on so long that it has pretty much reached "beyond help" status. In fact, it's so painfully obvious that CCP has sold out on the war dec scene to accomodate players with a softer view, that it is a wonder that anyone that has been around a while would even question them on the topic. And the game designers leaving this on the poor GM crew to balance is very lame.
Fix: 1) Make it hurt far more than it does today to be in an NPC corp. Being in a player corp should be akin to "end game" status. The thing people aim for or be happy with being severely gimped. I'm talking on the scale of you can't pilot a freighter, hulk, BC-BS, etc while in an NPC corp. 2) Make it take days to switch corps. Something along the lines of only being able to join a corp once per week or some sort of escalating delay attached to each corp join/drop per a time period. So, you could join and then drop one corp per week, but after that there begins a accruing count of days waiting in an NPC corp to join the next. So switching corps 20 times in one week is just not possible. That would force people to balance the risk/reward in their heads on whether facing the war dec is worse than being gimped while sitting in an NPC corp.
And that's it. All it would take to make war decs meaningful again. It would become self-balancing and the GMs wouldn't need to be involved at all. IT SHOULD BE PART OF THE CODE. THE GAME MECHANICS. Not on some stupid list of what is and isn't an exploit. Player habits would change. The concept of what a Player Corperations needs to be in order to be feasible would change. Throwing together a corp full of noob miners thought of as a right would disappear. Be competitive or go extinct. Join a corperation that is mature in it's design, or don't be surprised when evolution catches up to you. It's not the end of the world or the end of the game. It's just different. Players can adapt. They just don't want to as long as it is easy and handed to them.
CCP devs used to come to this forum and make statements like, "Don't like what someone is doing in your system? War dec them and drive them out". It is so obvious that statements like that are a farse, they don't even bother anymore. War decs are meaningless. Game mechanics changes are necessary to rectify that. But it is very likely to be against the loud sky-is-falling types that populate the board and therefore less than likely to ever happen.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.27 14:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Roy Batty68 CCP devs used to come to this forum and make statements like, "Don't like what someone is doing in your system? War dec them and drive them out".
It's not YOUR system, it belongs to the Caldari/Gallente/Amarr/Minmatar or whatever faction has sov there, and you are expected to obey their laws. Which you can choose not to, it's a valid tactic, but you will get Concord on you.
If you want a system for yourself in which you can decide who can and can't come in, go earn it in 0.0. Don't like it, get out of highsec. ---
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.06.27 15:01:00 -
[52]
War's Bad 'mkay?
Why can't we just all get along, and sing campfire songs around a burning pile of our megathrons and thoraxes?
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.06.27 15:07:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lt Mooncat
GM said it was an exploit. Which means any argument you put forward is now completely worthless.
Yeah, CCP's never changed their minds before... Think I'll keep pushing to have something done, thanks. ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Shi Khamara
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Posted - 2009.06.27 15:37:00 -
[54]
well as for the npc corps:
CCP has made it clear they will not force a playstyle on someone. And by trying to penalize them for not being in a player corp (which can be wardec'd) would be forcing them to play in a certain way.
Wardecs in general need a total reworking, right now they are more grief tools than actual wars. And till they rework it, they are not going to penalize anyone who choses to leave a corp or fold up one to avoid a playstyle that is not for them.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2009.06.27 15:48:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah If you want a system for yourself in which you can decide who can and can't come in, go earn it in 0.0. Don't like it, get out of highsec.
Ok. So why have war decs at all? You don't need them for 0.0 wars and those guys just use alts in highsec anyway. And why would devs imply such things about highsec issues in the past?
To me it's a battle for Eve's soul. Your position on it is clear. Highsec is for 'noobs' and alt corps farming away safely and freighting about your 0.0 corps stuff while safely avoiding total war situations. My position on it is it should be about competition no matter where you're at. Compete or don't. The choice is yours. But half-ass cake and eat it too situations like currently with war decs and NPC corps is just vague and non-commital. CCP should **** or get off the pot. End of.
Leaving war decs as they are is rediculous.
If they're truely just a remnant of what the game used to be about, then finish the job and get rid of them. If Eve is to return to it's roots, then fix it up so it actually means something.
I know where you're coming from, Ankh, and I respectfully disagree. You and your "silent majority" made it clear in your first CSM campaign. I believe CCP has trended more towards your view and rather than be clear in where the game is heading, they've simply avoided the hard choices. Trying to please everyone has brought us to where we're at today. Hammerhead saying war decs are a pay to grief tool pretty much sums it up.
CCP is undecided. And as a result war decs are a gun with no real ammo. And the core question that is left unanswered is this: Is Eve a game about player competition at every level or isn't it?
Apparently the answer is no. CCP just doesn't want to come out and say it. But after several years, I guess they don't really have to if you're paying attention at all.
But that's ok. We've got Oveur to come out and yell TOTALHELLDEATH once a year to remind us of the old Eve dev mentality. Guess that'll have to do.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.06.27 15:51:00 -
[56]
You're trying to reason using logic and braincells, with whatsherface? |
Tesal
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Posted - 2009.06.28 01:06:00 -
[57]
Wow...they just nerfed being a newb. Prepare to get permadecced and slaughtered newbs. Nice one. It will be endlessly entertaining for the people killing you. |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.06.28 01:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: GM Nythanos
...To help clarify this, there are restrictions with regards to joining and leaving corporation, such as mentioned here: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2317&tid=1
Interesting, you and GM Jericho should have lunch and compare notes. |
Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.28 05:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Tesal Wow...they just nerfed being a newb. Prepare to get permadecced and slaughtered newbs. Nice one. It will be endlessly entertaining for the people killing you.
I would like to confirm that new players are incapable of PVP.
EVE actually has a level system where one pilots SP is compared to another pilots SP, and whoever has more wins, regardless of how those SP are laid out and certainly regardless of the chosen tactics of both parties.
Dodging war mechanics is, frankly, pathetic. It's shocking how little shame some people have in abandoning their corporation just to avoid losing a couple ships. (It's too much to ask to stop hunting mindless npcs for a few days to go after something that does more than slowly orbit your ship and explode in a fountain of ISK.)
Is the spirit of the game dead? Do we want to become WoW in space? Why do people who want a PVE only game, with no competition, insist upon coming to a game designed around being more than that? There are a lot of people saying "Why should people who don't want to pvp be forced to?"..
I think the better question is this: If you don't want any competition, why are you playing EVE? There are dozens of PVE games out there. What compels you to join one of the few pvp games, only to whine for safety and accuse the pvpers of stepping on what YOU want out of a game? |
Togg Bott
Minmatar League of the Tiger and Tentacle
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Posted - 2009.06.28 07:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Originally by: Tesal
I think the better question is this: If you don't want any competition, why are you playing EVE? There are dozens of PVE games out there. What compels you to join one of the few pvp games, only to whine for safety and accuse the pvpers of stepping on what YOU want out of a game?
QFT
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