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Hailey Sunweaver
Ordnance.
Epsilon Fleet
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Posted - 2010.06.06 17:45:00 -
[151]
signed
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Plarbis
The Merchant Kings
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Posted - 2010.06.07 10:20:00 -
[152]
Let's give Destoryers a chance! |
Taudia
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.06.08 12:31:00 -
[153]
Supporting a general dessie buff.
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Titanius Bridge
The Secret Corp
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:42:00 -
[154]
I'll sign this.
-------------
Because I am Bridge, and I'm
AWWWWWESOOOOMMMMEEE!!!
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Vladimiru
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Posted - 2010.06.09 02:06:00 -
[155]
 Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
bringing this up for the next CSM meeting
ABOUT DAMN TIME, LET ME SHOW YOU THE PAST 3 RECENT POSTS YOU MISSED ON THIS SUBJECT
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1317687&page=1
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1327231&page=1
There's a third one somewhere too from last week, but I lost the bookmark.
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CG Oglethorpe
Universal Army
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.06.09 02:09:00 -
[156]
Dessies need buffing.
A second hull per race sounds good, but they are so underpowered right now that they have been repurposed into salvagers by many pilots.
They follow a similar path to their big brothers, the battlecruisers. Yet they never reach their desination, and are ignored as a failed ship design.
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Azshann
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Posted - 2010.06.09 02:45:00 -
[157]
Sexy
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Boraf Flux
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Posted - 2010.06.09 08:00:00 -
[158]
Not sure this is the best solution but I'm supporting this because destroyers have needed work for a long, long time.
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Nassus Ryn
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Posted - 2010.06.09 18:46:00 -
[159]
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Psycros
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Posted - 2010.06.10 05:40:00 -
[160]
YES. At least two mid and two low slots for all destroyers. Boost grid to allow for a full complement of any small guns or missiles and all but the hungriest modules. Its a destroyer - it should be almost as fast as a frig, slightly tougher and loaded for bear!
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1Ekrid1
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Posted - 2010.06.23 00:59:00 -
[161]
Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 23/06/2010 01:05:17
Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 23/06/2010 01:04:16
Originally by: Elo Behram
yes to grid and ROF, no to extra slots (destroyers supposed to be glass cannons)
No they are not. they already get BBQ'd faster than a witch in salem by cruisers, they need more slots because if their hps and sig radius dont change, at least they can tank a little better or actually put on some different useful modules to make them more useful as a ship with higher versatility. they lack versatility which is their main problem, their bonuses are flawed, which is their second, their fittings aren't right, which their tertiary flaw, and the final flaw is that their sig radius makes them instapop from cruisers.
you know how easy AC's rip up frigs? A cruiser is twice the sig radius of a frig, slower, and has only about 30% more HP than a frig.
Originally by: Psycros
YES. At least two mid and two low slots for all destroyers. Boost grid to allow for a full complement of any small guns or missiles and all but the hungriest modules. Its a destroyer - it should be almost as fast as a frig, slightly tougher and loaded for bear!
the coercer only has 1 mid. try doing anything useful with that ship. its like having to choose between speed to avoid damage and catch up to targets, or cap boosters to keep moving at a snail pace without running out of cap.
Personally, I'd like to see a 4% bonus per level to afterburner speed, with a 1% increase in cap use for afterburner.
you know whats funny is that this ship could have all kinds of different bonuses set on it to make it better, but each bonus, if its related to a module would effectively fitting out the other modules.
like if it had an AB bonus, and a Tracking computer bonus, and a cap battery bonus, and a web bonus. on ships with only 1 or 2 midslots, you can only choose two at most, and if the bonuses weren't to OP, then a particular fight would favor switching out a bonused mod for an unbonused one that would be more helpful in a particular fight.
there's tons of ways to improve ships, not just with buffs to stats but also with new bonuses that, if taken advantage of, take a slot away from being able to use another bonus.
Originally by: Psycros
YES. At least two mid and two low slots for all destroyers. Boost grid to allow for a full complement of any small guns or missiles and all but the hungriest modules. Its a destroyer - it should be almost as fast as a frig, slightly tougher and loaded for bear!
battlecruisers are solo PVP lowsec ships in droves. that doesn't compare to a ship relegated to salvaging for everyone.
There's 1, repeat 1, frigate in the T1 lineup designed to be a suicide tackler. the rest are for COMBAT. so don't tell me to tackle when I'm in a combat T1 frig. OR tell CCP to fix their mess. |
Khorvek
Amarr
Dead Pool Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.23 01:15:00 -
[162]
I got something to say. put in two of the small rigs that increase fire rate 10%. DPS is huge then. these rigs also tend to be pretty cheap. I think the only answer is to tank destroyers because otherwise the frigs they're supposed to kill take them out instead.
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Soapy5
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.06.23 01:25:00 -
[163]
+1
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Syekuda
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.06.23 03:01:00 -
[164]
I agree, more dps, same fragility. At least I could use my cormy with 7 150mm without pen.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.24 15:54:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Khorvek
I got something to say. put in two of the small rigs that increase fire rate 10%. DPS is huge then. these rigs also tend to be pretty cheap. I think the only answer is to tank destroyers because otherwise the frigs they're supposed to kill take them out instead.
Catalyst does not have enough powergrid to fit full-rack of 150 mm rails..
NOw, if i add two rigs that boots their power useage by 10% each, and it stacks, and put a couple plates and an mwd on, i wonder what will happen......
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Patrice Macmahon
Department of Defence
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Posted - 2010.06.25 19:37:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Patrice Macmahon on 25/06/2010 19:38:25
Just gonna take a moment to interject here,
Destroyers are really good T1 ships. I can take a catalyst and wipe the floor of any basic t1 frig and take on most faction level frigs no problem. Hell, I've easily popped the unweary, first assult stealth bomber and intercepter who thought that they were gettting froggy.
So as a T1 hull, as they exist now, are just fine and do a really really good job at what they are supposed to be doing. But thats the problem, its only a t1 hull.
Now, the problem is everyone is trying to make them usable and viable in a world filled with assult ships and cruisers on the battle field. Interdictors are very niche and they do worse at handling frigs than their t1 counterparts.
The solution is not to make these great T1 hulls even stronger, its to finally push over and make dedicated T2 combat hulls for them. Drop the sig radius and give them a bonus to small module rep/boost amount. That would definately make them quite viable on today's battlefield.
=)
The Intakis have an obligation to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf. |
1Ekrid1
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Posted - 2010.06.26 04:56:00 -
[167]
so.. the solution to making a T1 hull viable is to make them T2?
Are T1 hulls supposed to be obselete? Didn't CCP see this coming, that eventually the universe would be filled with the majority of pilots flying HACS and AFs such that there is no room for the newbie in The T1 hull?
Thats what happens when you make the next gen of ships more than 50% stronger than the previous gen. you make gen 1 useless except in very narrow circumstances that happen .0001% of the time.
There's 1, repeat 1, frigate in the T1 lineup designed to be a suicide tackler. the rest are for COMBAT. so don't tell me to tackle when I'm in a combat T1 frig. OR tell CCP to fix their mess. |
Patrice Macmahon
Department of Defence
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Posted - 2010.06.26 23:02:00 -
[168]
Originally by: 1Ekrid1
so.. the solution to making a T1 hull viable is to make them T2?
Are T1 hulls supposed to be obselete? Didn't CCP see this coming, that eventually the universe would be filled with the majority of pilots flying HACS and AFs such that there is no room for the newbie in The T1 hull?
Thats what happens when you make the next gen of ships more than 50% stronger than the previous gen. you make gen 1 useless except in very narrow circumstances that happen .0001% of the time.
Think about what you just said...
Rifter is still used just as much as the wolf.
T1 EW frigs are used just as much as their T2 counterparts. Destroyers are still being used all over the place. Head out to null or low sec and youll get a taste of some really good Destroyer pilots.
The only problem were running into is that where people are trying to use a t1 ship in essentially t2 situations and they arnt doing so well...
The Intakis have an obligation to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf. |
Tir Ona
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Posted - 2010.06.27 12:00:00 -
[169]
Supported. I would love to see buffs to destroyers. As a relatively new player I was quite sad to be told to completely skip the class. I didn't, because I loved the Cormie hull (and the ability to have some salvaging ability on board while doing level 1s and 2s).
In PvP destroyers should be something that frigates are afraid of. Not so much that they can destroy fleets of them solo, but dangerous enough that they could kill frigates better than other frigates can.
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Luminus Mallus
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Posted - 2010.07.01 11:41:00 -
[170]
The original post is from almost exactly a year ago.
It received pretty major support, is well thought out, and reasonable, however if I'm not wrong, there's no CCP contribution to it? How much approvals does one good idea need to achieve before it attracts attention?
We're mainly talking about balance here. Takes no genius to see that catalyst and cormorant are sub par.
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Rhok Relztem
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.01 16:50:00 -
[171]
+1 wholeheartedly
Destroyers are the forgotten ship class. They are underpowered and slow, and even within the class the desparities between the racial ships is ridiculous. They certainly do not live up to their billing as frigate killers, at least not anymore. And why are there no T2s or variations from the militia or various outlaw groups? I love flying my destroyers (all of my characters have at least one of their racial design) but they are mainly used for salvaging purposes instead of frigate hunting which is a real shame. The class has potential if it got some attention by the devs.
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Elisa Fir
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Posted - 2010.08.20 14:18:00 -
[172]
signed
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Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.20 14:49:00 -
[173]
This is an old thread posted before apoc 1.5 and the rig changes. Now destroyers can fit 3 cheap small rigs. They get more of a boost from this % increase than t1 frigates because they started out with better stats. They get more of a boost from this than tech 2 frigs because tech 2 frigs only has 2 rig slots. The high alpha of destroyers make them extremely dangerous for all frigates. Going from memory, I think a thrasher can do about like 240 dps (that may include overheat not sure) and have about 7k ehp! With its tracking bonus its hard to say how this doesn't destroy properly destroy frigates. Those small guns are doing close to full damage.
The hull is essentially the same cost as a t1 frigate so why would anyone ever fly a t1 frig if the signature of destroyers is reduced? Boosting destroyers even further just makes t1 frigates (one of the funnest ships in the game) obsolete.
In low sec I see *plenty* of destroyers. I don't see any need for a general boost.
That said I do think a coercer should have 2 mids.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Astroka
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Posted - 2010.08.20 19:14:00 -
[174]
I would love it if CCP could bring some value to this relatively worthless ship class.
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Erik Legant
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Posted - 2010.08.20 20:42:00 -
[175]
signed |
Mongo Edwards
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:59:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Cearain
This is an old thread posted before apoc 1.5 and the rig changes. Now destroyers can fit 3 cheap small rigs. They get more of a boost from this % increase than t1 frigates because they started out with better stats. They get more of a boost from this than tech 2 frigs because tech 2 frigs only has 2 rig slots. The high alpha of destroyers make them extremely dangerous for all frigates. Going from memory, I think a thrasher can do about like 240 dps (that may include overheat not sure) and have about 7k ehp! With its tracking bonus its hard to say how this doesn't destroy properly destroy frigates. Those small guns are doing close to full damage.
There are 3 other T1 ships in that class and a Cormorant needs either an implant or a rig to fit T2 150mm rails if you are using the low slot for a magstab. I'm not really sure what awesome dps you are talking about the cormorant with T2 rails does with maxed skills 136 dps with 1 weapon rig at 25km with CN antimatter. Even then you need to 2 ancillary current routers to make it happen. In long range sniper mode its optimal is 90km +11 falloff and does an amazing 79 dps you might as well be tickling the enemy to death.
Blaster cormorants are pretty much fail since even with Null a frig can still be in point range and recieve no damage from a cormorant no matter what you use in the low and mid slots. Not to mention that with the hybrid rig you don't have the pg for a speed mod so a frig can either kite you or disengage at will.
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Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.21 02:41:00 -
[177]
I agree the corm isn't great. But since many frigs in low sec have an ab a corm with a mwd and rails can be quite effective at killing them.
[Cormorant, New Setup 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Medium Shield Extender II
Faint Warp Disruptor I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
This ship will go 1500ms (overheat over 2098) 140 dps with 15k optimal and 6k falloff! (165 dps overheated) and has 5k ehp. Yes if you can drop a scram on it then its dead but thatÆs true of any kiter and this is one of the weakest destroyers.
But the catalyst and thrasher are good and the coercer would be *very* good also if given a midslot. If the proposal was to do that I would support it. But again when combined with a decent tackler the coercer can really spit out dps. But whatever 50% of the ships in the class are quite good. Thrasher is bordering on op IMO.
There are 16 t1 frigs only about 30% are good. There are 8 t2 frigates 3 are good. There are 8 interceptors 4 are good. There are 4 faction frigates and 2 are good. There are 4 pirate frigates and only one is good. :)
But here is the most important thing. Of all these ships you will see just as many thrashers out in low sec as any other frigate class ships except drams and rifters. Destroyers are very common and very useful. They certainly do not need a boost. You would see more catalysts if it werenÆt for all the thrashers. The thrashers are borderline oped so why bother with a catalyst?
Instead of a ôboost destroyersö at most we really just need a thread to give coercers a second mid and possibly some more fitting room for the corm. But even there I donÆt see any urgency that *every* ship in eve be perfectly equal. T1 destroyers really do a good job destroying T1 frigates. I donÆt think anyone denies that after the rig changes. Distancing them even further from the already hurting t1 and t2 frigates just doesnÆt make sense.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.08.21 15:00:00 -
[178]
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 21/08/2010 15:00:43
I don't remember if I've supported this...
Edit: I hadn't.  Must've been horrendously drunk when I read it last, or something.
Ye'llo? |
Bronya Boga
Black Eagle SocieTy
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Posted - 2010.08.21 16:13:00 -
[179]
/signed
The catalyst needs a boost and the coercer needs it too....this is a good solution
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Ramon Wilco
Caldari
Psycho Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.21 17:27:00 -
[180]
My destroyer... i use it only to salvage ^^
Fear your incomprehension, but love the differences. Ramon Wilco |
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