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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
183
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:29:00 -
[241] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:I dont suicide gank miners What's the matter, afraid you should lose a ship? Caliph Muhammed wrote:Any of those with zero combat skill could have left the war but they chose not to. If they even saw that they were at war to begin with, or even understood what that meant.
None of which matter to the point. Nothing your presenting has any bearing on local being the one feature in EVE that contradicts and makes the whole game a campfest.
You can point to a dead hulk and say that its unfair hulks should never die. Its all just hot air. |
specializt
Angry Angels Constructions The Kadeshi
0
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:30:00 -
[242] - Quote
malcovas Henderson wrote: If remove local, then lets remove locator agents. Make you WORK for your kills. Good luck finding a WT 60 jumps away, and you don't know where they are.
Now lets not exagerrate it - locator agents should be REALLY EXPENSIVE, but not unavailable - the current price is next to inexistent which makes stalking, ganking and being a child in general really easy. Spotting a target should be an effort --- hence, cost a lot of iskies (more than 100M per use i guess) |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
67
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:38:00 -
[243] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Yeah I did forget the Orca. But no hulks, I dont suicide gank miners and any industrials that were targeted were by chance. When you have to camp for hours on end you have to take what you can get. Any of those with zero combat skill could have left the war but they chose not to.
Thomas Kart was a miner that died, but he also started the war and refused to undock in anything but a mining ship. We had a chance to kill him and we did. The greater point is Zim industrialist, save for capital ships, and miners don't provide fun kills. That's our perspective.
I checked the KB's for your Corperation. Over 10% of kills were indies. Take into that, Pods, the figure goes higher than 30%. That said. It's a war. and as such any Indy caught is fair game. It's only the pilots fault for being out in an Indy.
It doesn,t answer how removing local doesn't give you an OP advantage in Hi, and balances everything
o7
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malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
67
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:42:00 -
[244] - Quote
specializt wrote:malcovas Henderson wrote: If remove local, then lets remove locator agents. Make you WORK for your kills. Good luck finding a WT 60 jumps away, and you don't know where they are.
Now lets not exagerrate it - locator agents should be REALLY EXPENSIVE, but not unavailable - the current price is next to inexistent which makes stalking, ganking and being a child in general really easy. Spotting a target should be an effort --- hence, cost a lot of iskies (more than 100M per use i guess)
No let exagerrate it. If OP wants an uncounterable mechanic. Then by christ make him work for it. Remove local, locator agents got to go aswell.
o7
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Lord Zim
712
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:42:00 -
[245] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:None of which matter to the point. Nothing your presenting has any bearing on local being the one feature in EVE that contradicts and makes the whole game a campfest. "makes the whole game a campfest" is your assertation, presumably because it's the only way you can get kills. vOv |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
184
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:43:00 -
[246] - Quote
malcovas Henderson wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Yeah I did forget the Orca. But no hulks, I dont suicide gank miners and any industrials that were targeted were by chance. When you have to camp for hours on end you have to take what you can get. Any of those with zero combat skill could have left the war but they chose not to.
Thomas Kart was a miner that died, but he also started the war and refused to undock in anything but a mining ship. We had a chance to kill him and we did. The greater point is Zim industrialist, save for capital ships, and miners don't provide fun kills. That's our perspective.
I checked the KB's for your Corperation. Over 10% of kills were indies. Take into that, Pods, the figure goes higher than 30%. That said. It's a war. and as such any Indy caught is fair game. It's only the pilots fault for being out in an Indy. It doesn,t answer how removing local doesn't give you an OP advantage in Hi, and balances everything o7
My killboard is 10% industrial? I doubt it. I wont deny that if a war target is in a industrial I won't blast him into oblivion but I don't target industrialist as a primary means of PVP. What my corp members do on their own is just that, their own.
None of which lend a shred of credibility to the argument against the removal of local. |
Selinate
906
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:46:00 -
[247] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote: It would solve cloaky camps people complain about. It would give a point to cloaks people complain about.
Uncloak aliegned, tap bomb, warp to safety. No time to get reinforcements on grid to help or even lock targets. Hurray for 100% Safe uncounterable attacks. This is pretty much how it works now, even with local.
Was about to say. I don't see why people think bombers are going to be WTF powerful with local removed. It will be practically the same as before... |
Selinate
906
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:49:00 -
[248] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:wormholers seem to believe that spamming the dscan button is the height of gameplay in eve online vOv
D-Scan is a horrible click fest mechanic on it's own that needs to be changed to something better and/or different. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
185
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:50:00 -
[249] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:None of which matter to the point. Nothing your presenting has any bearing on local being the one feature in EVE that contradicts and makes the whole game a campfest. "makes the whole game a campfest" is your assertation, presumably because it's the only way you can get kills. vOv
Zim you're a moron. You want so bad to be the guy taken seriously on the forums, in the conversations, making points. But your not up to the job. Thats the truth, it is what it is. Stop spamming my thread with assumptions and irrelevant tripe. |
Lord Zim
712
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:51:00 -
[250] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:My killboard is 10% industrial? I doubt it. I wont deny that if a war target is in a industrial I won't blast him into oblivion but I don't target industrialist as a primary means of PVP. What my corp members do on their own is just that, their own. And you counted PODS as industrial as well? Bias much?
None of which lend a shred of credibility to the argument against the removal of local. Actually, I'd say none of this is lending a shred of credibility to the argument for the removal of local. |
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Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
185
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:53:00 -
[251] - Quote
Thats because no matter what is said the only counter you ever present is "blah blah no it isn't."
Seriously go find a new thread, stop spamming this one. |
Selinate
906
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:53:00 -
[252] - Quote
FFS, if local was removed then maybe, JUST MAYBE, the cov ops cloak subsystem for the Legion might be half-decent in K-space...
It's useable now, but only under certain cirumstances and barely at that, mostly just for running through camps... |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
67
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:57:00 -
[253] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
My killboard is 10% industrial? I doubt it. I wont deny that if a war target is in a industrial I won't blast him into oblivion but I don't target industrialist as a primary means of PVP. What my corp members do on their own is just that, their own. And you counted PODS as industrial as well? Bias much?
None of which lend a shred of credibility to the argument against the removal of local.
I didn't say your KB's. I said your Corps. Pods were not counted as indies, but as non combat ships. Making the total for your Corps kills of "non combat ships" at about 1 in 3.
Reguardless as to whether or not, you personally shoot indies, your corp do. Removing local gives your Corp, and others like them, that same advantage as you are looking for.
As for creditability for argueing against the removal of local. Balance is the only reason for not removing it. It gives the agressor to much, and takes away much more from the prey.
o7 |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
185
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:01:00 -
[254] - Quote
malcovas Henderson wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:
My killboard is 10% industrial? I doubt it. I wont deny that if a war target is in a industrial I won't blast him into oblivion but I don't target industrialist as a primary means of PVP. What my corp members do on their own is just that, their own. And you counted PODS as industrial as well? Bias much?
None of which lend a shred of credibility to the argument against the removal of local.
I didn't say your KB's. I said your Corps. Pods were not counted as indies, but as non combat ships. Making the total for your Corps kills of "non combat ships" at about 1 in 3. Reguardless as to whether or not, you personally shoot indies, your corp do. Removing local gives your Corp, that same advantage as you are looking for. As for creditability for argueing against the removal of local. Balance is the only reason for not removing it. It gives the agressor to much, and takes away much more from the prey. o7
It makes nonconsentual targeted pvp an impossibility. **** the victim. It makes EVE suck. Having a mechanism that completely removes stealth and scouting from the game, suprise attacks and endless other often hyped features isnt balance. Its ******* weak. |
Selinate
906
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:01:00 -
[255] - Quote
malcovas Henderson wrote:
As for creditability for argueing against the removal of local. Balance is the only reason for not removing it. It gives the agressor to much, and takes away much more from the prey.
o7
No it doesn't. Roaming gangs and pirates have to find the miners/plexers/etc. just as well as the miners/plexers/etc. have to be on active lookout for the gangs and such.
FFS this is how it happens in wormholes and it really just does not give the "aggressor" an advantage at all... |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:04:00 -
[256] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
It makes nonconsentual targeted pvp an impossibility. **** the victim. It makes EVE suck. Having a mechanism that completely removes stealth and scouting from the game, suprise attacks and endless other often hyped features isnt balance. Its ******* weak.
Here is an Idea for you. Why dont you WD, other WD'ing Corps. With the new Combat UI, it shouldn't be to hard to find agressors.
o7 |
Lord Zim
712
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:06:00 -
[257] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:It makes nonconsentual targeted pvp an impossibility. Odd, killboards all over the eve universe seems to prove that it's very possible right now.
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Having a mechanism that completely removes stealth and scouting from the game, suprise attacks and endless other often hyped features isnt balance. Its ******* ********. As usual, you've absolutely no idea (or rather, you completely ignore) the end result on "the other guy", because you're so focused on making your own game too easy. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
185
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:08:00 -
[258] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:It makes nonconsentual targeted pvp an impossibility. Odd, killboards all over the eve universe seems to prove that it's very possible right now. Caliph Muhammed wrote:Having a mechanism that completely removes stealth and scouting from the game, suprise attacks and endless other often hyped features isnt balance. Its ******* ********. As usual, you've absolutely no idea (or rather, you completely ignore) the end result on "the other guy", because you're so focused on making your own game too easy.
Welcome to ignore idiot. |
Lord Zim
712
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:11:00 -
[259] - Quote
I guess the truth hurts. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
460
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:12:00 -
[260] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:It makes nonconsentual targeted pvp an impossibility. **** the victim. It makes EVE suck. Having a mechanism that completely removes stealth and scouting from the game, suprise attacks and endless other often hyped features isnt balance. Its ******* weak.
you still don't understand balance and you only want easy-mode PvP
I think we've already established this conclusion several times in this discussion and it's a fact you're not willing to accept. eh |
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Lord Zim
712
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:13:00 -
[261] - Quote
Careful, he'll "ignore" you too. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
185
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:14:00 -
[262] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:It makes nonconsentual targeted pvp an impossibility. **** the victim. It makes EVE suck. Having a mechanism that completely removes stealth and scouting from the game, suprise attacks and endless other often hyped features isnt balance. Its ******* weak. you still don't understand balance and you only want easy-mode PvP I think we've already established this conclusion several times in this discussion and it's a fact you're not willing to accept.
We havent established anything other than local removes everything listed in the original post and that goonswarm has slipped up and recruited some seriously carebear players.
Your premise that because local exists its therefore balanced is silly. But it isn't worth in depth discussion. Lets just say under that logic a change was never needed in EVE in its entire existence.
Notice the OP is in double digit likes, growing everyday. The rest of the posts? Nothing worth mentioning. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
460
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:15:00 -
[263] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:We havent established anything other than local removes everything listed in the original post and that goonswarm has slipped up and recruited some seriously carebear players.
People who only want easy-mode killmails are worse than the carebears. eh |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
185
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:17:00 -
[264] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:We havent established anything other than local removes everything listed in the original post and that goonswarm has slipped up and recruited some seriously carebear players. People who only want easy-mode killmails are worse than the carebears.
Calling something easymode doesn't win the argument.
Also, if you're big on challenges leave the 8000 man alliance and help the lessers fight against it.
And having to camp for hours-months to kill a specific person doesn't equate to challenge. It equates to bad design and implementation of which the devs have already made clear. |
Malachi256
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:20:00 -
[265] - Quote
As someone who only plays occasionally, and who avoids pvp entirely, I think local is one of the most immersion breaking features of this game.
Default player listings in local absolutely need to be removed. Give us something else to act as an early warning system, but good grief, get rid of local. Nothing like watching a chat channel to remind me that this is a sub-par space MMORPG. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
185
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:22:00 -
[266] - Quote
Malachi256 wrote:As someone who only plays occasionally, and who avoids pvp entirely, I think local is one of the most immersion breaking features of this game.
Default player listings in local absolutely need to be removed. Give us something else to act as an early warning system, but good grief, get rid of local. Nothing like watching a chat channel to remind me that this is a sub-par space MMORPG.
Kudos to you good sir. Someone able to see past self interest and make a clear and concise point. |
Lord Zim
712
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:22:00 -
[267] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:We havent established anything other than local removes everything listed in the original post Except we've established that it also unbalances everything in favor of the attacker and puts an extraordinary burden on the shoulders of the victim to have one cloaked scout hanging out on each gate and wormhole going into a system, and he'd still have to hope someone didn't log out a few hours or days prior.
Caliph Muhammed wrote:and that goonswarm has slipped up and recruited some seriously carebear players. You heard it here first: having a grasp on "game balance" means "carebear", regardless of the fact I've killed more ships on this char than he has on his, and I haven't used this char offensively for 3 years. |
Lord Zim
712
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:23:00 -
[268] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:the 8000 man alliance Psst: it's over 9000. |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:23:00 -
[269] - Quote
Selinate wrote:
No it doesn't. Roaming gangs and pirates have to find the miners/plexers/etc. just as well as the miners/plexers/etc. have to be on active lookout for the gangs and such.
FFS this is how it happens in wormholes and it really just does not give the "aggressor" an advantage at all...
I don't do WH's as a rule, But I have watched personally, Corperations completely annihilate WH dwellers. The mechanics for the WH is far different to Null/lo or Hi. It has less Hostile trafic for a start. You can control the exits, by closing them down, A proper run WH, can have no Hostiles indefinately. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
153
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:29:00 -
[270] - Quote
CCP has already claimed local is going to be replaced by another kind of function, though I haven't read anything about it in a year or more. Local as we know it is going away, but what replaces it will probably have some of the same functions. This might have gotten scrapped when Walking in Stations was abandoned, though.
As for breaking the immersion, there's no immersion in this game to speak of.
I wouldn't care about losing local chat, that's for sure. Nothing more annoying in the game. I don't think getting rid of local is the solution to a lot of problems, though. It will hurt PVP as much as it helps. It's already hard enough to find fights, especially with null sec and low sec empty most of the time.
Of course, OP has taken the position that he knows best and certainly knows more than all the rest of us put together. That makes him perfect for Eve. |
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