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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.01.19 15:36:00 -
[781]
Quote:
Burning away from rats in AE will increase your distance from acc gate = increased mission time
Just got really back to the game, I still have a pre-Dominion fitting and rigs so it's why I did so.
Quote:
I cant see how you cant kill them till they get under your guns
Because an experiment to see how they act is... well... an experiment? I did not fire on them at all to see what they did.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Anatema Anthea
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Posted - 2010.01.31 01:36:00 -
[782]
Edited by: Anatema Anthea on 31/01/2010 01:37:50 A perfect mining hulk costs nearly 1 bi, so all arguments about Hulk vs Golem costs fail. But, yes, its less time consuming train for a perfect hulk than train to a perfect golem, but when you train to a hulk thats the only ship you are going to use, when you train to a golem you get skills to use other ships too, so you can PvP with golem skills.
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Ndauthina
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Posted - 2010.01.31 01:42:00 -
[783]
Originally by: Anatema Anthea Edited by: Anatema Anthea on 31/01/2010 01:37:50 A perfect mining hulk costs nearly 1 bi, so all arguments about Hulk vs Golem costs fail. But, yes, its less time consuming train for a perfect hulk than train to a perfect golem, but when you train to a hulk thats the only ship you are going to use, when you train to a golem you get skills to use other ships too, so you can PvP with golem skills.
WTF? A perfect Golem costs many billions. The ship itself is a bil. Jesus cried when you posted. Confirming Social 5 is a pre-req for Blob 0.0 warfare
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Rob Buie
BlackSite Prophecy 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.01 20:28:00 -
[784]
I'm going to have to give this a try. I'm a couple months from a golem but I can manage a raven until then or jump in a CNR. I had a problem with missile skills for a while but its all taken care of (mostly) to the point where my raven can pull in more ISK/h. I'll run some numbers in a 14.5m sp 2.2m in missiles caldari BS 5 fielding a raven with non T2 launchers. My only current problem with my raven is its tank is not setup fully and some of the missions are ripping through my shields faster then my drake... then I ran some numbers and seen that my worst drake setup has a 80% better tank on it then my best raven fit. After all this is done I'll compare and see how this all turns out.
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Arpad Elo
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Posted - 2010.02.02 02:00:00 -
[785]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 29/12/2009 15:27:17 I have over the last month and a half made detailed records of the earnings I've had from running L4 combat missions. Here are the results if anyone should find them interesting.
Thanks man!
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.02 08:43:00 -
[786]
Edited by: Kerfira on 02/02/2010 08:43:55
Originally by: Arpad Elo
Originally by: Kerfira I have over the last month and a half made detailed records of the earnings I've had from running L4 combat missions. Here are the results if anyone should find them interesting.
Thanks man!
You're welcome
The above numbers are gathered running things inefficiently. Killing/looting/salvaging everything, coming back in a salvage ship is not efficient and lowers your income. I was also using a conservative ship fit with only 3 BCS and 1 painter.
I'm currently gathering data when doing things efficiently, ie. doing missions as fast as possible, only coming back to salvage/loot if worth it, and skipping killing ships that isn't worth killing. I of.c. loot/salvage what I can during the mission (a Golem is good for that), but doesn't let it slow me down. I'm also including non-kill storyline rewards, and using optimal fits for each missions ie. usually 4 BCS and 2 painters. This is still done using only one character...
I don't have data for enough missions yet (29 so far), but once I get to somewhere between 50 and 100 (depends on the spread between missions). I'll make those numbers public as well.
For the 29 missions I've done so far, my average earnings are.... hold on to your hats.... 69.77m ISK/hour!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Anisa Schardl
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Posted - 2010.02.02 11:00:00 -
[787]
I'm not surprised, though I'm sure you'll get tons of people denying such numbers just out of principle.
One thing that would be important to include when you do post the second study, though, is how long you spent per session. It would seem to me that if you're cherry-picking missions, a little bad luck can definitely lead to 4 hours where you're unable to do anything at all, or have to do 'bad' missions. Logically this would mean that the high-end of isk/hour can only really be attained by people playing in short bursts. The number would be less relevant for someone who, say, plays a lot during the weekend but not at all during the week.
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.02 12:07:00 -
[788]
Edited by: Kerfira on 02/02/2010 12:09:34
Originally by: Anisa Schardl One thing that would be important to include when you do post the second study, though, is how long you spent per session. It would seem to me that if you're cherry-picking missions, a little bad luck can definitely lead to 4 hours where you're unable to do anything at all, or have to do 'bad' missions. Logically this would mean that the high-end of isk/hour can only really be attained by people playing in short bursts. The number would be less relevant for someone who, say, plays a lot during the weekend but not at all during the week.
Good point which I'd better clear up!
I'm not usually playing long sessions, maybe 2-3 hours or a little more on weekends. HOWEVER, I do not cherry-pick missions with one exception: I'll not do faction missions, meaning for me that I on rare occasions have to decline an EA. This happens so rarely that I've never had two of them occur on the same day. It hasn't happened even once in the current batch of 29 missions.
Other than that, I complete the missions I'm given, even courier ones (which drags the average down a bit).
NOTE: While comments on the above number are welcome, be aware that the number is not based on what I deem a sufficient data set! I'll need to get to somewhere between 50 and 100 missions done before I'm happy with it as a reasonable average.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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RenegadeChemist
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.02.02 12:50:00 -
[789]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 02/02/2010 08:43:55
Originally by: Arpad Elo
Originally by: Kerfira I have over the last month and a half made detailed records of the earnings I've had from running L4 combat missions. Here are the results if anyone should find them interesting.
Thanks man!
You're welcome
The above numbers are gathered running things inefficiently. Killing/looting/salvaging everything, coming back in a salvage ship is not efficient and lowers your income. I was also using a conservative ship fit with only 3 BCS and 1 painter.
I'm currently gathering data when doing things efficiently, ie. doing missions as fast as possible, only coming back to salvage/loot if worth it, and skipping killing ships that isn't worth killing. I of.c. loot/salvage what I can during the mission (a Golem is good for that), but doesn't let it slow me down. I'm also including non-kill storyline rewards, and using optimal fits for each missions ie. usually 4 BCS and 2 painters. This is still done using only one character...
I don't have data for enough missions yet (29 so far), but once I get to somewhere between 50 and 100 (depends on the spread between missions). I'll make those numbers public as well.
For the 29 missions I've done so far, my average earnings are.... hold on to your hats.... 69.77m ISK/hour!
That's pure b u l l s h i t and full of it.
One hour has only 60 minutes and you need to count in all your warps, jumps, aligns, refits... Not to mention salvage price levels wich are nearly all time lows, and worth of LP is going down again due increased number of macro CNR's and macro couriers wich are coming slowly back after unholy rage.
This thread is at the same level with the guys saying 'minerals that I mine are free'. Period.
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.02 13:21:00 -
[790]
Originally by: RenegadeChemist That's pure b u l l s h i t and full of it.
Oh dear... Another one of those
Wait until I publish the raw data and THEN argue why they're not correct! You'll not be able to as they ARE correct!
Originally by: RenegadeChemist One hour has only 60 minutes and you need to count in all your warps, jumps, aligns, refits... Not to mention salvage price levels wich are nearly all time lows, and worth of LP is going down again due increased number of macro CNR's and macro couriers wich are coming slowly back after unholy rage.
...which is all taken into account!
Time measured is from mission is accepted until the last loot/salvage is in my hangar. Prices used are lowest Jita sell orders. LP price is what I get at the time. I'm not even counting in the value of meta-4's etc., but just calculating by mineral value.
Originally by: RenegadeChemist This thread is at the same level with the guys saying 'minerals that I mine are free'. Period.
Again, wait until the raw data is posted and THEN point out where I'm lying. The data I provide are so detailed it would be easy to point out if I'm making stuff up.... You'll not be able to!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.02 13:44:00 -
[791]
Quote:
Again, wait until the raw data is posted and THEN point out where I'm lying. The data I provide are so detailed it would be easy to point out if I'm making stuff up.... You'll not be able to!
You have no hope, I see WoW all over again.
I'd do something, state how it was possible. Heck I even posted video clips of it. And still people called it impossible and BS. They cannot admit they suck, therefore it's impossible for anyone. - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Elldranga
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Posted - 2010.02.02 15:22:00 -
[792]
I have no beef with the number 69 mill... I know it's possible to earn that in missions, but touching back to the original point of the thread... it still doesnt justify calling for a nerf to level 4 income. It's still not as good as you can do in 0.0 if you bring the same skill set and ships into 0.0 or even into wormholes.
I do also think that when you mention that you're doing things inefficiently, that's a bit misleading. I fully grant there's still things that you could do to boost the income like picking missions and using sell orders for loot, BUT, your also using the best ship in the game for the task on a high skill char, which makes up for quite a bit of "inefficiency".
I'd like to suggest that you gather a set of data using the same methodology that you've already used, but utilizing a CNR. It appears to me that would represent a better "baseline" of what players could expect and would provide numbers where it would actually become possible to discuss whether or not missions earn to much. I dunno if it would make a difference to your time or not since you're not salvaging with the golem, but it would represent something closer to "average".
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ZenSun
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.02.02 17:15:00 -
[793]
I admire your work Kerfira, however, you have not taken in some factors to conclude your 'research'.
Here are a few things in bullet point I think you need to consider;
-Casual gamers do not have the time to log on and prepare a team for wormholes, mining or even clear 0.0 space to rat in. -To achieve the higher tier rats and ore, you have to be part of dominant alliance (in general).. we all know this is not easy unless you bring something worthwhile to the table. Again this affects casual gamers who do not want to log into 0.0 space or alliance politics. -K-space based players need alts to fund their main characters, they might want an available character for pvp at all times. -Missions bring along looters and salvagers, also people looking for deliberate fights.
So why should people be restricted to their earnings?
Please resize sig to a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.02.02 18:36:00 -
[794]
My problem with this thread and the calls for nerfing L4 income is that its using a pretty much max skilled mission runner using the absolute best possible ship in a very efficient manner with probably very ideal agents.
Of course under such circumstances the potential for earnings is huge this should almost be expected considering the isk and time invested in equipment and skills.
how many hours in a raven would it take to afford a Golem? You wuoldn't likely be making the same isk/hr as in a golem that has to be included in any overall analysis of the profession.
Not to mention the isk price for the skills and the hours spent earning at a lower rate while skilling up for the ship.
I'm not making anywhere close to the numbers claimed here and I'm probably a far more typical mission runner. Well I'm probably a bit below the curve since I am kind of weak on offensive skills but 20-30 million a night is more typical over a couple hours play that's with multiple ships typically a Domi, Orca, Huricane and raven.
It doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me that a person who dedicates a year of play time to a carreer should be able to be able to make 60+ mil and hour. How many Level 5 skills are required to earn that rate? 4 for the ship alone and not the little 1X skills either, not to mention support skills and weapon skills nor the social skills to maximize rewards.
Then there is the time investment in finding a good agent hub and grinding the faction to use them, add into that the time to determine the best LP conversion, The oportunity cost of not doing other things that one might find more fun/rewarding. not to mention the time spent transporting goods for sale (unless you are just going with the cheapest buy orders) and if not you need to include the time spent managing sell orders.
Then there is all the logistics crap on people tend to forget when doing this sort of comparison. Time spent hunting down and moving gear and ammo.
These numbers are generated using the best PVE race for the faction with the most agents.
I don't call bull**** on the numbers I call bull**** on the conclusion that these non-typical results should be used to justify changes that Kerfira and the peanut gallery of the Nurf L4 crowd is calling for.
L4 missions are the backbone of the EVE economy. They provide the bulk of the isk that is used to purchase the ships that are used in PVP to get blown up.
They also serve as the primary isk source of new players to pay for the ships and skills to participate in other parts of the game.
Nerf L4 incomes for the high end and you end up nerfing the incomes for the new players which will only serve to delay their entry into other aspects of the game.
L4s serve a valuable role in the game as nice casual activity for those who don't have the time to engage in more involved aspects of the game. Those of us who can't dedicate 5 hour blocks of time to hunt down WH's and manage the logistics of such operations. Those of us who don't yet have the bankrolls to finance such operations.
When you get down to the basics of this game the only way one can actively advance ones character is to earn isk. Since skills are pretty much locked down to playing EVEmon online earning isk becomes the primary grind in the game.
L4s are the basic exping of other MMO's where currency is mostly useless here you have to replace exploded ships you improve your isk earning ability as well as PVP prowess by buing espensive ships and modules.
Finally the argument that the risk/reward is skewed compared to other activities particularly those in nullhave been repeatedly shown to be groundless. Sure if you compare max efficiency missioners to inefficient null seccers it looks imbalanced but that isn't the comparison that matters. Compare to those who invest just as much effort into their efficiency in Null and WH space and you'll find that they blow high sec mission running away.
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.02 18:41:00 -
[795]
Originally by: Elldranga I do also think that when you mention that you're doing things inefficiently, that's a bit misleading.
If you're commenting on the first set of calculations, I'm doing a horrible amount of things inefficiently. If you comment on the 69m/hour in post #786, those missions ARE being done as efficiently as I can. This explains the 52% extra income from them (at current numbers).
If only earning 2/3 of what you CAN, I think you can safely say its being done inefficiently.
Originally by: Elldranga I'd like to suggest that you gather a set of data using the same methodology that you've already used, but utilizing a CNR.
I'd complete the missions FASTER in a CNR, but not be able to loot as much and not salvage anything. Income would probably be in the same ballpark...
However, again.... While comments on the above number are welcome, be aware that the number is not based on what I deem a sufficient data set! I'll need to get to somewhere between 50 and 100 missions done before I'm happy with it as a reasonable average. Before then I don't feel I can confidently defend the number as the statistical base is too thin. So please, wait until I post a firm set of numbers and analysis.
Until I post those figures, I'll not engage in any discussion about whether L4's should be nerfed or not, but my opinion should be pretty clear by now. After I post the figures (I estimate in ~1 months time), bring it on!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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RenegadeChemist
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.02.02 20:57:00 -
[796]
Your problem is that you do overvalue the LP income by a lightyear and you don't take account the time spend on selling the LP's.
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.02 21:12:00 -
[797]
Originally by: RenegadeChemist Your problem is that you do overvalue the LP income by a lightyear and you don't take account the time spend on selling the LP's.
After subtracting the expenses I do earn ~2050 ISK/LP...
Note that you'll not earn as much if you do missions for a 'popular' corp like CN (Motsu) or CPF (Irjunen) as so many people do the same, thus driving down the prices for the items available in their shops. What you need to do is find popular items you can get from non-popular corp. This is not a hard nor difficult task.... According to other people, you can earn 3-4000 ISK/LP on Amarr Navy EANM's if you build them from BPC's (I do Caldari missions)....
Selling the items I get from LP is done in my mission system on contracts...
In total, I spend perhaps 5-10 minutes per ~400k LP.... Compared to the time it took to make those LP, it is not in any way significant....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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RenegadeChemist
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.02.02 21:23:00 -
[798]
Edited by: RenegadeChemist on 02/02/2010 21:25:54
Originally by: Kerfira
Selling the items I get from LP is done in my mission system on contracts...
Basically what you are saying is that you expect to get that much ISK from your LP's.
LP stores doesn't have that much difference, mostly hardwirings. Of course factional differences.
http://www.ellatha.com/eve/corp/Caldari-State
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Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.02.02 22:19:00 -
[799]
Originally by: Kerfira
Time measured is from mission is accepted until the last loot/salvage is in my hangar. Prices used are lowest Jita sell orders. LP price is what I get at the time. I'm not even counting in the value of meta-4's etc., but just calculating by mineral value.
Kerfira I have not done nearly as much mission running as you have but I don't think 70mil/hour is out of line for someone who dedicates huge amounts of skilling time, research, and money into the missioning profession. I do think that is in line with the top end of other money making activites in eve - except for maybe mining which perhaps needs a buff.
I do have some comments/questions about your methodology.
If you are not using the same agent for all missions you should include the time jumping from one agent to another.
For the lp prices are you including the time it takes to round up the tags move the items and confirm the contract is actually sold? Or are you going to just assume they will all sell for what the last one sold for or something? Also do you use lowest jita sell order for the price of the tags? You should of course include the value of the tags you pick up in missions as well. Also how often would you say you check the contracts to determine how much each lp is getting?
I still think if you are not going to include any time to sell the stuff you should not include the value of selling the stuff. Just keep the clock running as you reprocess and dump at the buy price of your mission hub - or include the time to transport your stuff to jita and use its buy prices - whichever you think is better. But either have the timer running until the isk is in your wallet, or start and stop the timer as you need to to readjust your orders in jita. If you have an alt selling your stuff in jita include the log in and log off times to do that.
Also I would be interested in the value of your starting capital - ships, mods etc. If you have hardeners and ships at different stations those too. Of course, you won't lose that stuff - unless rl interferes or something. Or you forget to set your drones to passive and they aggress a can flipper or make some other sort of mistake. But in any event its good to know how much money we need to keep from other eve endeavors in order to get these sorts of returns grinding missions. Maybe we could see what that would cost in terms of real money gtcs to see how much this sort of eve setup would cost. But also let us know if you ever have to warp off to repair. I mean let us know the missions where that happens if possible. If you know all the missions so well that you never require that then let us know that as well. Do you ever get to the missions site and find you have the wrong ammo or hardener? That woudl occassionally happen to me. I would also sometimes not have enough ammo to finish the last room of AE. Doh! Having to warp out and back in the last room of a five room mission really sucked.
The time it takes to train some of the longer skills would also be worth knowing - especially caldari bs 5 and some of the pve ones. Don't get me wrong I'm caldari and the scorpion is a nice battleship for pvp - but the only way I see training Caldari BS 5 in the next year would be to get a golem for pve.
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.02 22:50:00 -
[800]
Originally by: RenegadeChemist
Originally by: Kerfira Selling the items I get from LP is done in my mission system on contracts...
Basically what you are saying is that you expect to get that much ISK from your LP's.
LP stores doesn't have that much difference, mostly hardwirings. Of course factional differences.
http://www.ellatha.com/eve/corp/Caldari-State
Oh, how little you know
You even provide me a link showing the different offers, and STILL can't find the good one(s)......
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.02 23:18:00 -
[801]
Edited by: Kerfira on 02/02/2010 23:18:15 As said, I'll not now go into any discussion about nerf or not nerf... That's for later...
Originally by: Cearain If you are not using the same agent for all missions you should include the time jumping from one agent to another.
I am using only one agent. Whenever I need to go next door for a storyline mission, the travel time to/from the agent is included in any numbers.
Originally by: Cearain For the lp prices are you including the time it takes to round up the tags move the items and confirm the contract is actually sold?
I buy tags from buy orders in my mission system. When I need them, those orders have been filled a long time ago... The item I sell have always sold on the first contract....
Originally by: Cearain Also do you use lowest jita sell order for the price of the tags?
Yes, for any calculations I do, though I actually get them cheaper in my mission system.
Originally by: Cearain You should of course include the value of the tags you pick up in missions as well.
As I don't do missions against Gallente, I don't pick up any tags.
It should be said that any pirate tags I pick up are only valued in my calculations by their refine value, like all other loot, incl. arbalests etc...
Originally by: Cearain Also how often would you say you check the contracts to determine how much each lp is getting?
When I could be bothered producing. I've used the same LP item for years now and don't check often.
Originally by: Cearain I still think if you are not going to include any time to sell the stuff you should not include the value of selling the stuff.
It takes the time of setting up 8 sell orders to sell loot... I MAY do this once per half year... That is negligible time and I've never seen (4+ years) it not sell in 90 days.... It's only if you want fast profit you need to spend time selling.
Originally by: Cearain Also I would be interested in the value of your starting capital - ships, mods etc.
Started with a Raven... Bought faction stuff to equip it with LP, went on to a CNR = rolled in money... Bought a Golem.... That's pretty much it....
Originally by: Cearain If you have hardeners and ships at different stations those too.
I have loads of ships all over the galaxy, and other mission chars, but no double set of anything mission related.
Originally by: Cearain Or you forget to set your drones to passive and they aggress a can flipper or make some other sort of mistake.
Drones on active and I've never seen a ninja in my mission space... You really only see that in the major mission hubs.
Originally by: Cearain But also let us know if you ever have to warp off to repair. I mean let us know the missions where that happens if possible.
Nope. The only missions that sort of challenge my tank are Assault and Pirate Invasion (ie. the only missions where I don't agro everything).
Originally by: Cearain Do you ever get to the missions site and find you have the wrong ammo or hardener? That would occassionally happen to me.
Nope. Just have a set of fittings saved for different opponents.
Originally by: Cearain I would also sometimes not have enough ammo to finish the last room of AE. Doh! Having to warp out and back in the last room of a five room mission really sucked.
Nah, I load 1000 normal torps and 500 T2... It's always more than enough... The bonus stage of AE is not worth doing btw. (you earn more blitzing)...
Originally by: Cearain The time it takes to train some of the longer skills would also be worth knowing - especially caldari bs 5 and some of the pve ones.
Should be easy to figure out in EVEmon.... Remember, the last level of skills aren't that efficient. Yes, I get 5% extra RoF with BS5, but that doesn't really change my mission time much...
I am, however, mostly out of stuff to train for Caldari, but mission related skills are a minor part (got all T2 sub-battleship and all EW skills to 5 for example).
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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RenegadeChemist
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.02.03 05:25:00 -
[802]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: RenegadeChemist
Originally by: Kerfira Selling the items I get from LP is done in my mission system on contracts...
Basically what you are saying is that you expect to get that much ISK from your LP's.
LP stores doesn't have that much difference, mostly hardwirings. Of course factional differences.
http://www.ellatha.com/eve/corp/Caldari-State
Oh, how little you know
You even provide me a link showing the different offers, and STILL can't find the good one(s)......
Wich point I said how much I do earn with my LP's?
Only difference between corporations in same faction are hardwirings, skillbooks and nexus chips, rest are the same in every LP store. FW & pirate faction corporations are different story.
Everyone knows what is in the LP stores...
You said that you are buying the tags from your local mission running system, that means that you need buy orders. If you are buying them from sell orders and still claiming that you get 3000 ISK/LP.... Just stop it...absolutely nobody will bite that...
And even if you would get 3000 ISK/LP, 99% of mission runners don't even third of that. You don't also take account the time between missions. You know that not all of us are like macros, running missions 4 hours straight, no breaks what so ever.
ISK/hour numbers like you are claiming, aren't the state of missioning.
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.03 08:14:00 -
[803]
Originally by: RenegadeChemist Only difference between corporations in same faction are hardwirings, skillbooks and nexus chips, rest are the same in every LP store.
Look .... Again ....
Seriously, you're just making yourself look more and more foolish....
There are 3 different stores for each faction (with each corp using one). For Caldari, the one NOT used by CN (Motsu) and CPF (Irjunen) has at least one very good item....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Ryan Starwing
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Posted - 2010.02.03 12:30:00 -
[804]
I only make about 7mill per hour from level 4s? What are you guys doing to get that much isk per hour? Do you use an army of alts?
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Orvy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.03 13:17:00 -
[805]
You should try harder and use even more pretty colors to convince CPP to nerf level 4 missions. Basically you are lying. I can only make about 10mil per hour in faction fitted Vargur. I'm not hardcore, so the average player will be doing just like me.
Whatever you are lying to force carebears give up their high sec missions and come out to your low sec eye-bleeding 24/7 gate camping marathon or to your zero sec blobbing activity this will not happen. This is not our game. Mission running in high sec is OUR game.
______________________________________________ Fighting for perfection of sweets recepies
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.03 13:53:00 -
[806]
Originally by: Orvy You should try harder and use even more pretty colors to convince CPP to nerf level 4 missions. Basically you are lying. I can only make about 10mil per hour in faction fitted Vargur. I'm not hardcore, so the average player will be doing just like me.
Whatever you are lying to force carebears give up their high sec missions and come out to your low sec eye-bleeding 24/7 gate camping marathon or to your zero sec blobbing activity this will not happen. This is not our game. Mission running in high sec is OUR game.
I cannot for sure do Kerfira's numbers, but 10M per hour is HORRIBLY low, I did more when I had a not faction fitted Maelstrom with 1400 arties and I don't even pretend to be a L4 genius - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2010.02.03 14:46:00 -
[807]
Kerfira, I think renagade must be trolling you. At least I sure hope so.....
5 minutes at the link he provided and I found 2 separate faction items where the LP store you choose would allow one to spend significantly less LP on a specific item. All I did was run searches for the items that I actually use. Not one of them was an implant. Both were modules.
If he's not trolling, then I weep for him.
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Sinchai N'Bien
Caldari Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.02.03 22:09:00 -
[808]
Originally by: Tom Peeping Kerfira, I think renagade must be trolling you. At least I sure hope so.....
5 minutes at the link he provided and I found 2 separate faction items where the LP store you choose would allow one to spend significantly less LP on a specific item. All I did was run searches for the items that I actually use. Not one of them was an implant. Both were modules.
If he's not trolling, then I weep for him.
As I read this, I decided to go check on all modules I could find in the Caldari Navy LP-store, and I couldn't find any of them at a "discount" anywhere else... I can find the gallente counterpart (sometimes cheaper, sometimes more expensive), but Caldari Navy items seem consistent with itself.
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Kerfira
Audaces Fortuna Iuvat
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Posted - 2010.02.04 00:36:00 -
[809]
Originally by: Sinchai N'Bien As I read this, I decided to go check on all modules I could find in the Caldari Navy LP-store, and I couldn't find any of them at a "discount" anywhere else...
None of the Caldari Navy store items will ever fetch a good price. The price for the items are the same in all stores afaik (except in the FW stores), and the mindless masses solely goes for high LP (ie. high-Q agents) and doesn't think further than that.
What you want to do is look for items that are NOT available in the popular corp, which for Caldari is CPF (Irjunen) and CN (Motsu). Other factions are supposedly even better for this....
Tom... I agree.... Either he's a relatively incompetent troll, or he's way too impressed with his own (in)ability to figure things out
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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IbanezLaney
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Posted - 2010.02.04 03:32:00 -
[810]
Only people who already have 1 bill isk ships fitted out with t2 gear seem to cry 'NERF LEV 4's'.
We know it's just cause you want an advantage over newer players. I wish long term/ rich players could just be honest and start these threads saying that. An accurate title for this thread is: A noob/carebear/miner is bothering me and I would like ccp to remove his income so he can't fight back and Itll make me look more uber cause I already have good ships that he will never afford if you hurry up and nerf it now.
Perspective is everything.
If you think we earn too much isk running lev 4's - take the moral high ground and stop running lev 4's yourself.
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