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Real Poison
Minmatar Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 10:26:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Real Poison on 05/07/2009 10:34:17 check this video out (at 8:20 they start eve :))
http://www.dperry.com/archives/news/dp_blog/gaikai_-_video/
you don't even need a 3d graphics card. just a hd video capable netbook :)
no more installation issues. no updates needed. no windows needed, makes the game cross platform :)
i'd switch to that service any second when it comes available.
edit: linkified
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.05 10:34:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Real Poison you don't even need a 3d graphics card. just a hd video capable netbook :)
You forgot something. A good enough connection to their servers.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
temponita
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Posted - 2009.07.05 10:36:00 -
[3]
Holy crap batman that's amazing! This could revolutionize multi-character game play!
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Real Poison
Minmatar Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 10:36:00 -
[4]
about 1 Mbit as they say, so with a decent braodband connection you could even "multibox".
(accidentially reported you post :S, damn)
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Real Poison about 1 Mbit as they say, so with a decent braodband connection you could even "multibox".
I'm sure they said 5 MBit in the video while demonstrating EVE.
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Real Poison about 1 Mbit as they say, so with a decent braodband connection you could even "multibox".
I'm sure they said 5 MBit in the video while demonstrating EVE.
You can select Video and Audio Codecs and that way regulate the bandwidth used, the standard setting, which looks pretty good already, uses between 1 and 2 mbit.
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Kayanna Yatos
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Real Poison about 1 Mbit as they say, so with a decent braodband connection you could even "multibox".
I'm sure they said 5 MBit in the video while demonstrating EVE.
It's becoming more common to have 8-10MBit as standard anyway, so that is less of an issue. This service has exactly the same issues as Onlive, how to achieve reliably low latency, and scalability.
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Real Poison
Minmatar Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kayanna Yatos
It's becoming more common to have 8-10MBit as standard anyway, so that is less of an issue. This service has exactly the same issues as Onlive, how to achieve reliably low latency, and scalability.
exactly, i saw onlive when they presented their stuff and was amazed. but after these guys even showed eve i'm blown away.
i hope they find some major player capable of setting up a fat network of serverfarms.
imo soon enough this technology will be changing the pc gaming and console gaming world massively.
i could think of MS and Sony or maybe even nvidia or amd/ati to do so since they have the most at stake with this.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:17:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 05/07/2009 11:18:31
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Real Poison about 1 Mbit as they say, so with a decent braodband connection you could even "multibox".
I'm sure they said 5 MBit in the video while demonstrating EVE.
He said you "DONT" need 5mbit to play.
> The demands are so low, i mean, you don't need 5 megabit to be able to play this game. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:27:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Malcanis on 05/07/2009 11:27:28 Might be good for changing skills, but I think we're a long way from the reliable bandwidth that would be required to fight or even run a mission like this.
They might SAY that you can run it over a 1Mbit line, but then again Microsoft SAY that you can run XP on 64Mb RAM.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:30:00 -
[11]
I can see predatory drm growing to pandemic preportions is this ever takes off to the point its the only distribution method due to how fast it can stream data. Want to play that awesome new twitch shooter online game you just purchased? Oops better pay the monthly $2 master server fee you agreed to in some obscure section of the license agreement or you won't be able to see any servers to connect to. Or you might possibly not be able to start the game at all if you didn't pay the $1 a month patching fee to cover bandwith used to patch. EA will lead the way with the nickle and dime charge plan until every publisher gets on the bandwagon just because EA is getting away with it. You know it will happen if you give the greedy bastages even an inch of control over you being able to play the game you bought from them. However from a less cynical point of view I agree it could be a very handy tech for people with cheap notebooks.
Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Real Poison
Minmatar Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/07/2009 11:27:28 Might be good for changing skills, but I think we're a long way from the reliable bandwidth that would be required to fight or even run a mission like this.
They might SAY that you can run it over a 1Mbit line, but then again Microsoft SAY that you can run XP on 64Mb RAM.
you don't seem to undertsand. the server will have massive 3d processing power, whatver you machine you'll use as client will be able to run maximum details and effects on whatever resolution you may choose and it won't make a difference.
changing skills or being in a 400 ship battle will be the same.
i'd guess that the provider for that a service would bill customers by pure processing power that's required to run a game at specific quality settings.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Blane Xero He said you "DONT" need 5mbit to play.
> The demands are so low, i mean, you don't need 5 megabit to be able to play this game.
I stand corrected
Still, the only time you would need this service would be while on the move (not much point using a netbook at home) so it has to be fast enough to run on mobile broadband/wireless hot spots. Most hot spots has a 2MBit connection or less. My mobile broadband (3G in UK) will do about 1-1.2MBit when benchmarked even though it say connected at 3.6MBit.
Also I'm curious how they will deal with saving your settings as redoing the overview every time you log in isn't my definition of fun.
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Amerilia on 05/07/2009 11:41:45
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Blane Xero He said you "DONT" need 5mbit to play.
> The demands are so low, i mean, you don't need 5 megabit to be able to play this game.
I stand corrected
Still, the only time you would need this service would be while on the move (not much point using a netbook at home) so it has to be fast enough to run on mobile broadband/wireless hot spots. Most hot spots has a 2MBit connection or less. My mobile broadband (3G in UK) will do about 1-1.2MBit when benchmarked even though it say connected at 3.6MBit.
Also I'm curious how they will deal with saving your settings as redoing the overview every time you log in isn't my definition of fun.
People seem to not read my post:
Originally by: Amerilia
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Real Poison about 1 Mbit as they say, so with a decent braodband connection you could even "multibox".
I'm sure they said 5 MBit in the video while demonstrating EVE.
You can select Video and Audio Codecs and that way regulate the bandwidth used, the standard setting, which looks pretty good already, uses between 1 and 2 mbit.
You can run this even at 300 kbps/sec but it looks and sounds like some retro console. And settings and save games created by the programs and games are saved on your account of the website. So overview is saved.
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Fulber
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Posted - 2009.07.05 12:21:00 -
[15]
Have fun reading the EVE Font on a lossy-compressed stream ouput. |
Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.07.05 12:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Some Advisor on 05/07/2009 12:28:59
Originally by: Zeba I can see predatory drm growing to pandemic preportions is this ever takes off to the point its the only distribution method due to how fast it can stream data. Want to play that awesome new twitch shooter online game you just purchased? Oops better pay the monthly $2 master server fee you agreed to in some obscure section of the license agreement or you won't be able to see any servers to connect to. Or you might possibly not be able to start the game at all if you didn't pay the $1 a month patching fee to cover bandwith used to patch. EA will lead the way with the nickle and dime charge plan until every publisher gets on the bandwagon just because EA is getting away with it. You know it will happen if you give the greedy bastages even an inch of control over you being able to play the game you bought from them. However from a less cynical point of view I agree it could be a very handy tech for people with cheap notebooks.
QFT for truth and pointing again to the dangerous Corp out there that is.
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Shinnen
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.05 12:40:00 -
[17]
I wish this was available now, right now I'm paying for a HTTP tunnel that's super-unreliable because the internet company has blocked all ports that aren't HTTP or SSL ... -_-
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2009.07.05 12:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Some Advisor Edited by: Some Advisor on 05/07/2009 12:28:59
Originally by: Zeba I can see predatory drm growing to pandemic preportions is this ever takes off to the point its the only distribution method due to how fast it can stream data. Want to play that awesome new twitch shooter online game you just purchased? Oops better pay the monthly $2 master server fee you agreed to in some obscure section of the license agreement or you won't be able to see any servers to connect to. Or you might possibly not be able to start the game at all if you didn't pay the $1 a month patching fee to cover bandwith used to patch. EA will lead the way with the nickle and dime charge plan until every publisher gets on the bandwagon just because EA is getting away with it. You know it will happen if you give the greedy bastages even an inch of control over you being able to play the game you bought from them. However from a less cynical point of view I agree it could be a very handy tech for people with cheap notebooks.
QFT for truth and pointing again to the dangerous Corp out there that is.
QFT stands for "Quoted for truth" so you said "Quoted for truth for truth" just now...
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Spurty
Caldari Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 13:00:00 -
[19]
This is the ideal future for the games industry really.
Look at your cable bill and channel line up, do you have HBO? Do you have the premium service? How BIG is your bill each month?
This is where the games industry wants to go for its cash.
Can already see it with Half-Life 2 : Episodes
You pay per level.
sure, not everyone has a game that can be broken into chunks large enough to warrant this at the moment, but they will learn and modify future releases.
DUST 24/7 servers for example, will be where the cheap seats are at, everyone paying full subs (Probably around $90 a month) will get all the other maps.
This isn't speculation, its just 10~15 years away so sounds crazy and amazing.
Oh and whats the 'hardware' requirement? I couldn't see that, but assume its nothing spectacular. Can't see what the host os for the player needs to be.
Seems to be Linux, Mac or Windows, which is nice (for people like me anyway that own all 3 er and some others lol)!
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here
i was thinking earlier about corpses...
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 13:01:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/07/2009 13:01:44 It has many obvious advantages, also for other games (for example while aimbots would still be possible, wallhacks would be made impossible with this in shooters).
However this isnt exactly new, they arent the first ones doing it, and it is highly unlikely they will succeed. The current technology just wont cut it. The demands on their servers, both for the calculations required for the games + the extremely high demands on whatever codec they use, and the enormous bandwidth requirements, would result in some problems.
Quote: This isn't speculation, its just 10~15 years away so sounds crazy and amazing.
Actually, it is pure speculation.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 13:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Real Poison
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/07/2009 11:27:28 Might be good for changing skills, but I think we're a long way from the reliable bandwidth that would be required to fight or even run a mission like this.
They might SAY that you can run it over a 1Mbit line, but then again Microsoft SAY that you can run XP on 64Mb RAM.
you don't seem to undertsand. the server will have massive 3d processing power, whatver you machine you'll use as client will be able to run maximum details and effects on whatever resolution you may choose and it won't make a difference.
changing skills or being in a 400 ship battle will be the same.
i'd guess that the provider for that a service would bill customers by pure processing power that's required to run a game at specific quality settings.
Mmmm, man that kool-aid must taste good.
PS calculate the bandwidth your DVI cable carries. Just for fun.
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Real Poison
Minmatar Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 13:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Malcanis
Mmmm, man that kool-aid must taste good.
PS calculate the bandwidth your DVI cable carries. Just for fun.
*sigh* what they do is stream the video and audio signal, just like HD IPTV providers.
their key technology is the ubersome near realtime low bandwidth requiring compressing algorithm.
they're showing it in the video how that technology performs and you claim it doesnt work???
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 13:24:00 -
[23]
Reality called, it likes to have a word with you.
They are number OVER 9000 who claims to have an uber compression algorithm which can compress video further than anything realisticly possible (serious just allready look at the compression ratio of XviD and how far exactly they want to go over that). Showing a game on a screen doesnt proof anything. I can also run eve on my comp and say i am streaming it from a secret russian base on the moon, it doesnt make it true.
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Grez
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.07.05 13:27:00 -
[24]
ITT: Malcanis shows he doesn't know how Gaikai works :D --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Celestrias
Gallente Mid Knights Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 13:51:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Celestrias on 05/07/2009 13:55:49 This going to be awesome
I betcha though if this grows well, some crappie company (i.e. Microsoft) is going to buy it and fork it over
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 14:02:00 -
[26]
My only worries are that;
1. Things will lag out spectacularly once a large portion of people use it (World of ****craft). (seriously, millions of people streaming roughly 1-2mb/sec?)
2. Security of log-on data; though this is probably a lesser concern, it is still there.
3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.07.05 14:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shinnen I wish this was available now, right now I'm paying for a HTTP tunnel that's super-unreliable because the internet company has blocked all ports that aren't HTTP or SSL ... -_-
Wait, What?
Are you saying your ISP ONLY allows HTTPS and SSL communication? Soo.. How do you get anywhere on the internet? MOST pages do NOT use HTTPS or SSL.
That sounds fishy to me, unless they are forcing all non-encrypted communications to go to their local caching server, which would be pretty crappy as it would essentially cut off all communications except web and VPN traffic. I'd get another ISP if I were you. Fix the Wardec System! Upgrade the Probing System! |
T'Amber
starvald emurlahn
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Posted - 2009.07.05 14:13:00 -
[28]
That is the coolest thing i have seen in ages!!!
Thx for the link
Ships Of Eve Lottery #1 Secured by |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.05 14:16:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/07/2009 14:16:16
Originally by: Bish Ounen MOST pages do NOT use HTTPS or SSL.
head explodes
Edit : Oh, you read "HTTPS" instead of "HTTP".
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 14:26:00 -
[30]
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2009.07.05 14:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Youre pirating the game¦s music! OMG! Burn!
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Xenuchrist
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:56:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Xenuchrist on 05/07/2009 16:58:32 Gahhh... anyone who thinks this will be viable and rolled out in a large scale anytime within this or the next decade, are horribly uninformed or just a raving idiot.
This **** simply wont be able to scale well, neither technological or economical.
For each client connected, they need the equialent of a medium-end gaming rig to crunch trough all the CPU/GPU-cycles. Add to this the overhead of compression.
Further, if they solve the technological scaling problems, it simply won¦t be economical viable. Ever. To minimize lag, they will need to have several server-parks scattered troughout the world (And lag will matter here. While 100ms network latency can be acceptable in a multiplayer game, 100ms mouse lag won¦t be.) Just the bandwith/resource demands alone, will probably enforce this anyway.
This is bad. The only way such a scheme might remotely be anywhere near an operational profit is if they had the server-parks within one time-zone and clients somewhat equally distributed trough the world (and ist timezones.) Since they won¦t be able to, and people wihin a TZ tend to game at the same time (Sunday evening anyone?) I doubt they could even "overbook" it with more than 50%... And if you expect enyone to pay for such a service you can just forget about queues, quotas, assigned play times etc...
The only way we might see something like this rolled out anytime soon, would be as a limited ISP-service/gimmick, which would probalby break horribly if it gets popular. "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy |
Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:58:00 -
[33]
It might work in South Korea :3
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Xenuchrist
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mika Meroko It might work in South Korea :3
Or as a thin client solution for a 24/7, 1000+ employee Chinese RMT sweat shop... "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:14:00 -
[35]
EVE at 820 ----------------- Friends Forever |
DarthCaboose
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:16:00 -
[36]
*mind blown*
Wow... That's awesome!
Of course, with many US ISPs looking to cap bandwidth, this might not kick off as well as planned.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:22:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Companies might see this as a threat as to what pirate organisations could do, and as such add in EVEN MORE protection layers to precent this which shaft the user even more. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:41:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/07/2009 17:42:59
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Companies might see this as a threat as to what pirate organisations could do, and as such add in EVEN MORE protection layers to precent this which shaft the user even more.
Yeah because pirates rather spent a small (or actually large) fortune on an enormous server park with huge bandwidth to let others play pirated games on their computers, than they just use something like bittorrent or usenet for distribution of the games themselves. And obviously it is really worth it to use illegal copies of the games, so they cant be used on the normal multiplayer servers of whoever made it, so you can make it a bit cheaper. It isnt like the servers and bandwidth requirements would be way more expensive than licenses for some games
Sorry but come back when you see realistic problems.
Edit: I realise a realistic problem is that it is basicly impossible to make economic viable, but this isnt a realistic problem.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:46:00 -
[39]
game companies will probably add **** to their eulas like 'you must buy 1 copy of the game for each customer' and the customer will end up paying full price for it... so people will just buy a video card for $100 uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/07/2009 17:42:59
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Companies might see this as a threat as to what pirate organisations could do, and as such add in EVEN MORE protection layers to precent this which shaft the user even more.
Yeah because pirates rather spent a small (or actually large) fortune on an enormous server park with huge bandwidth to let others play pirated games on their computers, than they just use something like bittorrent or usenet for distribution of the games themselves. And obviously it is really worth it to use illegal copies of the games, so they cant be used on the normal multiplayer servers of whoever made it, so you can make it a bit cheaper. It isnt like the servers and bandwidth requirements would be way more expensive than licenses for some games
Sorry but come back when you see realistic problems.
Edit: I realise a realistic problem is that it is basicly impossible to make economic viable, but this isnt a realistic problem.
The realistic problem is that nobody thought this was possible a couple of years ago so who the f'ck knows what technology holds for us in the next 5 years.
This in and of itself is no problem; But its proof of the pudding that as technology advances, its going to get harder and harder for the few to manipulate data and easier and easier for the many to distribute it. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/07/2009 11:27:28 Might be good for changing skills, but I think we're a long way from the reliable bandwidth that would be required to fight or even run a mission like this.
They might SAY that you can run it over a 1Mbit line, but then again Microsoft SAY that you can run XP on 64Mb RAM.
You CAN run xp on 64mb of ram. It will load slow but it does run. With tweaking you can actually make it run fairly good. The lowest spec I ever ran xp on was a 450mhz 64mb ram machine before we did a massive upgrade back in 2003 |
Agent Known
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.07.05 20:54:00 -
[42]
If you noticed, a lot of the games demoed are MMOs, which means that you don't need to buy the game to play, only the actual account...although, he did show a few games that you actually have to buy. I wonder how they would work with publishers...
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:17:00 -
[43]
few months back see something similar to this http://www.onlive.com/service.html
this+user wifi+laptop whit wifiway= lots of fun
EvE FTW |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: rValdez5987
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/07/2009 11:27:28 Might be good for changing skills, but I think we're a long way from the reliable bandwidth that would be required to fight or even run a mission like this.
They might SAY that you can run it over a 1Mbit line, but then again Microsoft SAY that you can run XP on 64Mb RAM.
You CAN run xp on 64mb of ram. It will load slow but it does run. With tweaking you can actually make it run fairly good. The lowest spec I ever ran xp on was a 450mhz 64mb ram machine before we did a massive upgrade back in 2003
Yes it will technically work.
Good luck doing anything more than play minesweeper on it though.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:29:00 -
[45]
Quote: The realistic problem is that nobody thought this was possible a couple of years ago so who the f'ck knows what technology holds for us in the next 5 years.
Everyone realised that with increase in processing power + bandwidth it might become a possibility. That isnt a rocket science. (remote desktop allready existed a coupel of years ago, and this is the same only with bit higher bandwidth and better compression, but it isnt like the idea is so special).
And for any realistic implementation it is still impossible.
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:14:00 -
[46]
♥ ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told.
◕◡◕
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:54:00 -
[47]
It wont work for all of semi-rural North America that uses DSL
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Keeping people from making copies of digital merchandise is only one aspect of DRM and the rally cry whenever it comes up in debate over keeping it or not. So what we are saying is that if a major profiteering company like EA is given the chance to completely control if you can play digital merchandise or not with the shifting about of a few binary numbers then they will do that and eventually make you pay each and every time you decide to play the game be it an ongoing per use fee or a monthly 'master server' or 'patch server' fee. It will be a very small fee in the beginning but once it is accepted as the way things are it will balloon in price just like your atm, cable and wireless communications costs have done steadily over the years after they were deregulated.
Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Ignitious Hellfury
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:42:00 -
[49]
instant pants party.
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Taedrin
Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:47:00 -
[50]
I have doubts about their compression algorithm. It's either going to be incredibly lossy, take up more bandwidth than they claim, or be an incredibly small/poor resolution. Or pick two of the above.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.06 04:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
you seem to be missing the whole you need to log into their servers to play "your" games bit.
and needing ~1mb/s to play eve vs the like 50 kb/s it uses is a bit
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.06 05:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
you seem to be missing the whole you need to log into their servers to play "your" games bit.
and needing ~1mb/s to play eve vs the like 50 kb/s it uses is a bit
1megabit, not megabyte. Thats only about 120kb/sec which considering how much is going on and being streamed; Its not that much. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2009.07.06 05:33:00 -
[53]
I'll never understand DRM. It takes a week, tops, for a pirate to crack it.
-SIG- The true meaning of CCP; Completely Crap Patches. Truth. |
Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:44:00 -
[54]
Every keystroke you make would be transmitted across the interweb..... including youre login:pass. Awsome.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:11:00 -
[55]
I'm curious if EVE EULA allows you to do something like that....
You're putting your login and password into a web site basically. And we all know how secure websites are..
Myself, I'll stick to my computers.
Stuff like that may be fine for basic use games for the little kids, but for adults who measure lag in milliseconds, where a milliseconds delay can cost you your ship...
I mean think of it..
The info is sent from the EVE server to this companies server, compressed, then sent to your computer. You view it, then your response goes back to their server, THEN to CCP's server.
That's double the network traffic just in routing hops. Add in the delay on the servers end for compression of the video, I mean you could be talking upwards of a half second delay.. or more.. not for me..
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:14:00 -
[56]
So this is one of them sites that will sell my account info to suspicious maffia members?
Win a Hel mothership for 10M ISK |
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:48:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Joe Every keystroke you make would be transmitted across the interweb..... including youre login:pass. Awsome.
Because obviously piggeons bring your pass to the CCP servers...
(Yes i see the problem that their side would have the logins, but it wont be a problem because it goes across the internet).
Quote: you seem to be missing the whole you need to log into their servers to play "your" games bit.
You seem to be missing the whole point, they wont be your games. It is just like what you do right now with eveonline, you pay a monthly fee to use their servers, to play a game.
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Drykor
Minmatar Reform-Revolt
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:43:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Joe Every keystroke you make would be transmitted across the interweb..... including youre login:pass. Awsome.
Because obviously piggeons bring your pass to the CCP servers...
It's only the same if these guys are also using encryption for their user keyboard/mouse input.
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:52:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Joe Every keystroke you make would be transmitted across the interweb..... including youre login:pass. Awsome.
Because obviously piggeons bring your pass to the CCP servers...
It's only the same if these guys are also using encryption for their user keyboard/mouse input.
Its suprised i have to spell it out specificly.
Your Pass:login has to goto a 3rd party. A server that isn't CCP's or your Own. understand now? when your loose all your stuff how sympathetic do you actually think CCP will be?
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:52:00 -
[60]
It's just the old centralised / distrubted networking arguements of the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and now the new millenium. And just like every time the world switches over to centralised, some bright spark points out the benefits of distributed, and makes a fortune when the world switches over, and then some bright spark points out the benefits of centralised, and makes a fortune when the world switches over, and then some bright spark.... ya know... I don't think this is ever going to end.
(Unless my government finds a way to stick an "anti terror" label on it.)
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:02:00 -
[61]
Quote: Its suprised i have to spell it out specificly.
Your Pass:login has to goto a 3rd party. A server that isn't CCP's or your Own. understand now? when your loose all your stuff how sympathetic do you actually think CCP will be?
You wouldnt have been surprised if you would have said that initially (and btw i pointed you on that in my post). You said that it was a risk because it was transmitted via the internet. You didnt say anything else. And when you now login to eve your pass is also transmitted via the internet.
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Gwendion
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:06:00 -
[62]
I use to work for a Big name Virtualization company.
Let me tell you. This technology is real. It works. There are several players out in the field. In a years time, we will see this happening widespread. (And another 2-3 years before a major game release is "Web Browser Only"). This is the way the world is turning for entertainment. You may hate it, you may love it. Truth is, its coming.
From what I can tell, this is a Flash-based gaming platform. Streaming the video into a compressed stream. (Prerendered of course). This method has the best chance of acceptance by the masses, since everyone can use Flash in an IE browser. (Everyone being not the geeks, but we all know that) Other methods involve RDP. I watched a demo of a 1920x1200 video via RDP on a gigbit lan that to the naked eye (and 7 feet away) looked perfect. I also saw what it would look like over a 2mbit connection. Also extremely good. (Transformers 1 if you'd like to know). I then got to play the movie on my Laptop (Asus EEE, 1000H 2gb ram) via wireless G @ 40%. Also perfect.
Personally, I both love and hate this. As game developers catch on, this will become the only way to play the newest games. DRM for all, monthly charges for all. On the other hand, I love it. Wouldn't it be great to just sit down and play any game for $15/month?
So conflicted...
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:17:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Gwendion
As game developers catch on, this will become the only way to play the newest games. DRM for all, monthly charges for all. On the other hand,
Techno sucker. Much of the US and probably Europe doesnt have the physical infrastructure to handle the bandwidth. Additionally providers are trying to find ways to charge for band-width.
I agree the tech exists to make it work, but you wont see this technology become a standard because it would be exculding much of the customer base.
The transition from broad band to extreme broad band is going to go much slower than the transition from dial-up to to broad band went.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:21:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 06/07/2009 11:24:22
Quote: DRM for all
Randomly writing drm in topics doesnt make it relevant. DRM has nothing to do with this.
And considering a single MMO allready costs 15 dollar/euro a month, you wont get to play every game for that price. And since my computer can handle games without problems + I dont switch that often what i play, it would be way more expensive for me.
Also if you do something besides cleaning the offices or working at sales for that company, you would know it is impossible to do this with the current technology (to make it economicaly viable). And in a year nothing will have changed about that, also not within two years.
And a video is something completely different from gaming. With 2 mbit/s you have twice the bandwidth that is used for sharing series/movies using XviDs in non-HD format. That looks decent on a normal TV from a distance, with double the bandwidth it probably indeed looks good (not very good). However for gaming the demands are way higher.
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Shinnen
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.06 11:59:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Shinnen on 06/07/2009 12:00:33
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 05/07/2009 14:18:30
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Shinnen blocked all ports that aren't HTTP or SSL ... -_-
How do you get anywhere on the internet? MOST pages do NOT use HTTPS or SSL.
head explodes
Edit : Oh, you read/wrote "HTTPS" instead of "HTTP".
yes :P
I meant they blocked everything that's either not HTTP, HTTPS (or SSL) :) , which is pretty much everything that's not in a web browser. Eve included...
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Delencia Lakat
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Posted - 2009.07.06 13:16:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Delencia Lakat on 06/07/2009 13:23:53 Edited by: Delencia Lakat on 06/07/2009 13:22:53 This kind of technology has been around for a long time and I'll tell you how it works.
A company has the idea to implement it, so they do.
Someone posts it on a forum and people go nuts.
Then they get to the point where they realize that having a server do high-res real time rendering of games in such a quantity requires an absolutely insane setup, and the lag is nearly impossible.
And, VIDEOS ARE PRERENDERED. You can NEVER compare video streaming capability to that of rendering something and then displaying it to the user. You will never, ever, have good results. Imagine if your video card was connected through ethernet. That's what this is. Except that it's also your mouse and keyboard that are connected through the same connection. Oh and it's flooded at every moment with UDP traffic for displaying the 60 frames/second required to play the game. Thousands of packets even when you're not doing anything.
Imagine on your computer, your input is going in and the output is being shown to you. When you do something, you see an immediate change. The problem with these setups is that output is on its way before your input gets there (or vice-versa). You may click to fire and by the time it actually "draws" for you, the target has moved on the server. This is why so many mmorpgs are (for lack of a better word) deterministic. You can simply do some maths on one end and show the result to the client. It's completely "reversible" and can be predictably drawn *on the client*. (this is the issue with FPS games rendered on a server) This is why you see your ship "hitting" that interceptor when you're sure as hell not.
This isn't like taking a screenshot every second and then sending a single mouse event to the server (VNC and etc).
If you want to do this on your own, set up some kind of remote desktop system on your computer, then turn on your laptop (on your connection - or for more realism, another person's connection), and then try to play EVE through it. Then think about how it'd feel to do this with all games AND in a situation where the computer you're connected to will scale your display quality up/down depending on network latency.
These projects last until they try to scale them up.
Edit: yes, I know that "deterministic" in this case is not 100% correct, as almost MMOs do use random number generators, however, very little of that generation is left up to the user (as is in for example, an FPS, where the server has no idea where the user will shoot). This is why few MMOs really offer "aiming" in the traditional sense. My point being that when you try to make a system that handles that much data going in and out, it's a hell of a lot easier to say "the user is attacking X" instead of performing the math to find out if the user's shot (from the client) actually hits X.
And if you've ever played a fast-paced FPS like quake or UT, you'll know how horrible it is even with the smallest amounts of lag.
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