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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:32:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Ephemeron Again I have to remind you that I am not seeking to limit game features, but to expand them. I in no way suggest that CCP need to make safety nets for retards, or have some artificial game mechanic for limiting scams. What I propose are NEW ways to hurt people, in particular, an OPTION people can use to hunt down scammers.
After all, why should we even argue for keeping safety nets of alt chars? we want the world to be a harsher place, with more accountability. If you support the general idea of hurting stupid people, you should support new ways of hurting more stupid people - even if they are scammers and thieves
Actualy I am quite content with how things are. Most of eve dont fall for scams and those that do most never fall for another. The people who repeatly fall for them probably counldn't even do anything to the scammer if they found out who it was. I see it as a valuble lesson to be learned in life so realy we should be thanking people like Amareya who put up contracts for 20000 zidrine and advertise it as 200000 for 500 million in local.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:33:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Killer Gandry I am looking for solutions or atleast tools for players to exempt their vengeance onto those who did them wrong.
You see this is where your entire argument falls to the floor and dies whilst having horrible spasms. When you fall for a scam it was all your fault 100% for not paying attention. Wait, now that I think about it there is a punishment for that.
Pod yourself as a reminder to pay closer attention next time.
Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:45:00 -
[93]
It seems it does hurt you a lot to read and understand Zeba, but your socalled bold print explains a lot.
Everyone is calling out that EVE is a cold and harsh place. And if I didn't like it that way then I wouldnt be running closer to my 6th year here.
Yet tell me.
Where is the harshness for scammers and corpthieves in general?
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:48:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Killer Gandry Where is the harshness for scammers and corpthieves in general?
In the same place as for those who blow your ship up. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:50:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Killer Gandry It seems it does hurt you a lot to read and understand Zeba, but your socalled bold print explains a lot.
Everyone is calling out that EVE is a cold and harsh place. And if I didn't like it that way then I wouldnt be running closer to my 6th year here.
Yet tell me.
Where is the harshness for scammers and corpthieves in general?
They run the risk that people wont be idiots and fall for the scams. Thus wasting the contract fees.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.10 21:13:00 -
[96]
I would just like to say that I just sold an Amar Navy Arbitrator for 50 mil this week.
Not only is there no such ship but I also spelled amarr wrong, the contract clearly said it was just an arbi and my selling slogan was:
WTS Amar Navy Arbitrator for 50 mil. More realistic than a pvp Slasher...
For my next trick I shall try to sell a Caldari Navy Badger Mark V.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.10 21:24:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Malcanis
I dont want to train Caldari Industrial V, how much for 2 of those?
I cant let them go for any less than...say...60 million?
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Dan Glebitts
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Posted - 2009.07.10 21:29:00 -
[98]
Take away the ability of pilots in NPC corps to create contracts. That would solve most contract scamming overnight. I can only imagine how many war decs they would then recieve...
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.07.10 21:51:00 -
[99]
Just listen to all these folks.
EVE would be such a better place if nobody trusted anybody. Because, you know, you're stupid for doing so because they don't deserve consequences for abusing your trust.
If nobody made corps, flew in fleets together, or put themselves in any danger of losing assets because, hey, you're just stupid to trust anybody and you deserve to take losses if you do... the game would be a much better experience for everyone.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Zartanic
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Posted - 2009.07.10 22:07:00 -
[100]
The problem is some players trust complete strangers, that's dumb. And I still do not understand how anyone except from a Corp theft can get scammed unless they are very lazy. Most corp thefts seem to be from Officers going emo and not always pre planned, so I understand why that can happen. Even then its not too hard to restrict the damage.
It's very easy to avoid being scammed, anyone would think from some posts here it happens to everyone all the time, it simply does not.
I would like to see some way of getting back at scammers without silly devices that try and replace common sense. Being able to scam on an alt or from station or NPC corp is a fault of those mechanics allowing too much freedom while giving total safety to the scammer. That's not in the spirit of risk/reward this game says it aims for.
But as already said, who wants to come up with a workable solution that won't immediately be abused and is not a get out of jail free card for the gullible fools that fall for these things.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.07.10 22:15:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Jenny Twotone No.
1.) fiscal darwinism.
2.) common sense (try it, it's fantastic)
3.) keep your wallet where you can see it, seriously, do you hand over $10,000 every single time someone asks?
4.) welcome to EVE, in a year if you're still here, you're going to be ashamed of this post.
God damnit stop stealing my posts you bastard.
Btw, OP, It's the way EVE is, Scammers, thieves and griefers are the way of reality, unfortunately, in real life you can't moan at the 'devs' to change it, face it, if you don't want to deal with a game that allows people/us to operate in this manner, there are friendlier games for you.
In short, welcome to reality, this is how EVE is, and how it should always be.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.10 22:17:00 -
[102]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Malcanis
I dont want to train Caldari Industrial V, how much for 2 of those?
I cant let them go for any less than...say...60 million?
you see legit
hit me up in game, we'll trade in Jita 4-4 k?
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.07.10 22:40:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Zartanic The problem is some players trust complete strangers, that's dumb.
OP painted a pretty clear picture of players being robbed by people who were anything but strangers.
The moral of the story is not to make friends, I guess.
I practice what I preach, though. I have no "friends" in game, I don't fly in fleets with my Alliance. I have a one man corp with my own corp wallet that I keep all my cash in and I will never give anyone an opportunity to get the best of me. I've never been scammed or robbed or caught in a trap and I'm not about to start.
EVE would be so much better if we were all tightwads that didn't trust anybody. Because afterall, if you're stupid enough to trust people you deserve to be betrayed and shat on. And who wants to play with stupid people?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:33:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Ghoest on 10/07/2009 23:34:04
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja
Quote: stuff
Your point being?
The REAL WORLD favors scammers, thieves and griefers. Do you know why?
Because as long as there are stupid people, there will be people to scam, steal from or grief.
In order to be scammed, stolen from or griefed you have to lack that general common sense that would otherwise keep tugging at your ear, explaining to you why you shouldn't do something or why something could turn out bad for you.
Common Sense and Stupid aren't on talking terms tho, last I checked, so you tend to not find them on the same shoulders.
Wrong the real world definitely selects against "griefers."
It could be argued that it favors scammers and thieves but the 2.3 million prisoners in the US might disagree.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen Quarantine Zone
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Posted - 2009.07.10 23:46:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Ghoest It could be argued that it favors scammers and thieves but the 2.3 million prisoners in the US might disagree.
Most of those are people caught smoking pot
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Novus Ordo Mundi
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Posted - 2009.07.11 00:28:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: northwesten umm it's always been that way with EVE so deal with it or leave. If your dumb enough to get scammed then your dumb to play the game! Period!
Well, I play this game since 2004 and if there is one thing I found out is that " it's always been that way with EVE so deal with " ain't really the intelligent answer.
I played since 2004 but so what? If you got scammed then deal with it! It's nothing hard about it because if you were careless then not CCP or anyone else problem but your own. So don't give me the intelligent answer when someone was dumb to get scammed in the first place.
as someone said before Action: being stupid Reaction: losing your iskies Lesson: priceless, hopefully
Trinity Corporate Services |
Shade Millith
International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2009.07.11 01:45:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Merasa Tro 1) Corp theft. How about getting to put a security tag on valuables. Only the person who creates the tag can remove them at time of sale/trade. If they get stolen/lost you can go ask a locator agent (for a fee) who has it. You can then hunt them down.
An interesting idea --------------------------------------------
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.11 01:55:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Zeba on 11/07/2009 01:56:10
Originally by: Killer Gandry It seems it does hurt you a lot to read and understand Zeba, but your socalled bold print explains a lot.
Everyone is calling out that EVE is a cold and harsh place. And if I didn't like it that way then I wouldnt be running closer to my 6th year here.
Yet tell me.
Where is the harshness for scammers and corpthieves in general?
Reputation.
Something they will never ever have in a positive balance unless you are high profile like the ghsc or others who make no bones about what they do. So you say they just use throwaway alts and bypass it? Of course not. I'm sure the mains that hold the scammer characters would never dream of having anything to do with any shennanigans past collecting the isk and the ones who got scammed should have known better. They do want to stay in thier corp after all. So believe it or not sparky just because you think something is not right has absolutely nothing to do with the way things are or will be.
Enjoy your rant as that is all that will ever come of it.
Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Vallista
Gallente Amalgamated Ship Systems
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Posted - 2009.07.11 02:10:00 -
[109]
OP, I understand your point and partially agree with it; however, look at your name. I say, how dare you whine about scammers, thieves, and whatnot when you call yourself Killer Gandry?
You have subscribed to the pathos of the immoral and now you want to cry about the injustice? Talk to the hand, because whether the rest feel willing to listen, I do not.
If you want to sing about a lack of equity in the system, you need a pair of clean hands, not a name that shouts, "Killer!" |
Velvet Sinner
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Posted - 2009.07.11 02:15:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Waci If you get scammed or someone steals from your corp, it's your own fault for being stupid enough to get scammed or giving access to everything the corp has to someone you don't know well enough to be able to trust. If you are stupid, someone who is less stupid will get your precious pixels.
This. +1 |
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Zartanic
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Posted - 2009.07.11 02:24:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Zartanic The problem is some players trust complete strangers, that's dumb.
OP painted a pretty clear picture of players being robbed by people who were anything but strangers.
The moral of the story is not to make friends, I guess.
I practice what I preach, though. I have no "friends" in game, I don't fly in fleets with my Alliance. I have a one man corp with my own corp wallet that I keep all my cash in and I will never give anyone an opportunity to get the best of me. I've never been scammed or robbed or caught in a trap and I'm not about to start.
EVE would be so much better if we were all tightwads that didn't trust anybody. Because afterall, if you're stupid enough to trust people you deserve to be betrayed and shat on. And who wants to play with stupid people?
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Zartanic The problem is some players trust complete strangers, that's dumb.
OP painted a pretty clear picture of players being robbed by people who were anything but strangers.
The moral of the story is not to make friends, I guess.
I practice what I preach, though. I have no "friends" in game, I don't fly in fleets with my Alliance. I have a one man corp with my own corp wallet that I keep all my cash in and I will never give anyone an opportunity to get the best of me. I've never been scammed or robbed or caught in a trap and I'm not about to start.
EVE would be so much better if we were all tightwads that didn't trust anybody. Because afterall, if you're stupid enough to trust people you deserve to be betrayed and shat on. And who wants to play with stupid people?
In my post I differentiated Corp theft and Jita style scamming. And yes if someone is scammed by a contract or a 2 for 1 deal in Jita they really are naive. You can trust anyone but to not take even basic precautions is not smart, that's just as true as real life. This game allows players to take simple precautions but some simply do not, thats their fault and they suffered for it. Like all mistakes in this game its another thing to learn from.
I cannot think of one instance where the person who was scammed was not greedy or gullible, usually both.
The exception for me is Corp theft and for that I think it would be good to be able to somehow get back at the thief although how that would work is another matter. It would certainly require a lot of effort and not give an easy way out.
Also the fact that players can hide in NPC corps etc is an imbalance in the risk/reward aspect of the game and that should be changed I think.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.11 02:33:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Zartanic In my post I differentiated Corp theft and Jita style scamming.
No difference. Both can be avoided with the barest minimum of some common sense. Also the op makes it sound like corp theft is some aweful thing that happens all the time to everyone continuesly. It does not. By and large the vast majority of players in eve are honest towards thier own corp mates or even strangers. Its just the jita style scams and the big ticket corp thefts that show up on the forums make it seem a much larger problem than it really is.
Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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MightyRhinox
Minmatar Rhinox Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.11 03:17:00 -
[113]
Institute a litigation system. You can sue people for a fee (say 10% of your loss), if it's an alt you're suing and you win, you can drive their account balance into the red and the alt can't be deleted until it's in the black again. The CSM could appoint judges to deal with the cases. The judges can examine the case, decide whether the victim was stupid or has a legitimate claim, decide penalties, damages etc.
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.07.11 06:27:00 -
[114]
It's funny that people still think that any "bank" in EVE is not a scam of some sort. Eventually all of the banks will take all of that money and then they will make headlines for the biggest MMO theft of all time. I know because I was one of them and then the goons happened >< So funny how people think. It's almost like real life, except in real life we all but abandoned our space flight goals. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.11 06:44:00 -
[115]
call the Whambulance!!!!
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.11 06:48:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton call the Whambulance!!!!
Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.11 07:13:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Vallista OP, I understand your point and partially agree with it; however, look at your name. I say, how dare you whine about scammers, thieves, and whatnot when you call yourself Killer Gandry?
You have subscribed to the pathos of the immoral and now you want to cry about the injustice? Talk to the hand, because whether the rest feel willing to listen, I do not.
If you want to sing about a lack of equity in the system, you need a pair of clean hands, not a name that shouts, "Killer!"
The rule is: the more ominous and grandiose the name (and corp title), the bigger the carebear.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.11 07:13:00 -
[118]
Originally by: MightyRhinox Institute a litigation system. You can sue people for a fee (say 10% of your loss), if it's an alt you're suing and you win, you can drive their account balance into the red and the alt can't be deleted until it's in the black again. The CSM could appoint judges to deal with the cases. The judges can examine the case, decide whether the victim was stupid or has a legitimate claim, decide penalties, damages etc.
Next up: goons start suing people right and left
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.07.11 07:14:00 -
[119]
Okay OP check this out, k.
In June I lost a billion in personal assets to a corp thief. The guy was vouched for by an established corp member, and I contracted him half a dozen T2 cruisers, a dozen T2 frigs, several Battlecruisers, my Gila, my Firetails, and a couple of rigged T2 ships. This was so he could jump that stuff to our corp/alliance's new staging area. That billion in hard assets was over three times the liquid ISK in my wallet.
SO BE IT.
I'm glad people can do that. Name one other game where such a thing is possible. I know it isn't DAoC or WoW, because personal assets there are available in any personal assets chest in any area, and don't ever have to be physically moved.
Griefing, scamming, war deccing, and so forth are just awesome, tbh. And when someone steals from you, do the following: vigilantly track that person's corp affiliation. Notify every corp they join, with evidence, that the person is not to be trusted. At the very least the guy will have to spend even more RL cash on new alts so he can appear innocent. We've blocked our thief's induction into multiple new corps in just the last few weeks. The point I'm trying to make is that even if you can't catch the guy in space, you can still blam the characters he's spent $100+ on developing and prevent those characters from joining new corps.
Vengeance is always within your grasp.
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JoDan Troikian
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Posted - 2009.07.11 16:37:00 -
[120]
It seems that there are two schools of thought on this...Killer and a few others are asking for the ability or means to seek retribution/justice for being scammed. Others are stating that if you get scammed in EVE, it's your fault. I can understand the frustration from the OP's side in that some of our fine posters have not engaged their reading comprehension skills.
I have to agree with Akita that if you introduce a system to exact revenge/justice for your loss, that very system would somehow or someway be exploited.
I also agree that scamming specifically is a self limiting problem. If you get scammed, hopefully you are a new character, so your losses in the long run would be small. It's a small price to pay for an invaluable lesson.
Corp theft, and all other forms of misfit behavior should remain to include suicide ganking, all of it.
Security tagging high-isk items is an interesting proposition. At the end of the day, I feel CCP could care less if you lose stuff, like Dirk Magnum did. Having a form of finding alts would be good, but probably unfeasible as well. A complete revamp of the NPC corps is long overdue imo. It would go a long way to resolving many different thread topics.
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