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Junko Togawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.11 17:01:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Ah but in the Real World...
*slap* EVE isn't the real world. It's a game. That's why people get away with it consequence-free. Deal or unsub. Kthxbai.
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Crais Reiter
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Posted - 2009.07.11 17:33:00 -
[122]
Quote: I practice what I preach, though. I have no "friends" in game, I don't fly in fleets with my Alliance. I have a one man corp with my own corp wallet that I keep all my cash in and I will never give anyone an opportunity to get the best of me. I've never been scammed or robbed or caught in a trap and I'm not about to start.
Thats pretty much why I am loosing interest in EVE after six months. I don't pay 15 a month to play a SMO (solo multi-player online) when I could get a couple used console games for that amount. EVE has no social aspects if you can't get into a big alliance, no one forms "pick up groups" because the bounties suck even for AE4 when split with repeatly bad missions on 4 hour timers or anti-empire missions that pop up more often then courier, and you can't trust anyone: corp theft happens often or other players that wardec your corp for no other reason then the fact they suck in lowsec and mining barges are the toughest target they can handle. I understand the point of EVE, but so much scamming crap out there I just can't stand to deal with people.
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Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.11 18:47:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Junko Togawa
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Ah but in the Real World...
*slap* EVE isn't the real world. It's a game. That's why people get away with it consequence-free. Deal or unsub. Kthxbai.
Quoate the whole thing and you will see you merely slapped yourself. And if we dealt with everything as just a fact that cant be changed then why even bother with CSM and expansions that change things.
If you really want a static game that doesn't evolve then please don't let the door hit you in the bumm on your way out.
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
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Posted - 2009.07.11 19:06:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
This game favours the clever players like scammers, thieves and other evil (though handsome) players. I think CCP should continue to favour such lovable rogues because clearly they have something a lot of other players don't have, mainly brains.
Hear hear.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.07.11 19:09:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Killer Gandry And if we dealt with everything as just a fact that cant be changed then why even bother with CSM and expansions that change things.
There's a difference between interacting with the devs, changing the game and ruining it, you know… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Maxpie
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2009.07.11 19:28:00 -
[126]
Yet another example of how Eve would be more interesting, and a better game if it were 1 character per account and (if it were possible) 1 account per person.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.12 08:32:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Tippia There's a difference between interacting with the devs, changing the game and ruining it, you knowà
So in your opinion if people would atleast vaguely have the tool to hit someone back who scams it's gameruining. Very odd sense of gameruining you have there. Hell yes, everyone should be able to pull off something really nasty to people he or she played together with for a long time with the availability to get away with it carefree by just buying a new well trained char and laugh in the faces of those that worked with him or her and they wouldn't even know who is laughing. Jeez get your head out of your ass cause I think you already sniffed more than enough gas.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.12 08:47:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Crais Reiter
Quote: I practice what I preach, though. I have no "friends" in game, I don't fly in fleets with my Alliance. I have a one man corp with my own corp wallet that I keep all my cash in and I will never give anyone an opportunity to get the best of me. I've never been scammed or robbed or caught in a trap and I'm not about to start.
Thats pretty much why I am loosing interest in EVE after six months. I don't pay 15 a month to play a SMO (solo multi-player online) when I could get a couple used console games for that amount. EVE has no social aspects if you can't get into a big alliance, no one forms "pick up groups" because the bounties suck even for AE4 when split with repeatly bad missions on 4 hour timers or anti-empire missions that pop up more often then courier, and you can't trust anyone: corp theft happens often or other players that wardec your corp for no other reason then the fact they suck in lowsec and mining barges are the toughest target they can handle. I understand the point of EVE, but so much scamming crap out there I just can't stand to deal with people.
Here's a hint: people in this game routinely trust others with millions or even billions worth of assets.
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Trathen
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.07.12 08:50:00 -
[129]
I just had a great idea for a Game Show. I'm going to call it Troll or Idiot? and contestants will have to read and respond to threads like these for big bucks! _ |
Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.12 16:06:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Trathen I just had a great idea for a Game Show. I'm going to call it Troll or Idiot? and contestants will have to read and respond to threads like these for big bucks!
Great then we need a troll next to you.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.07.12 16:25:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Tippia There's a difference between interacting with the devs, changing the game and ruining it, you know…
So in your opinion if people would atleast vaguely have the tool to hit someone back who scams it's gameruining.
No, the point is that EVE is still EVE, and that their presence does not mean that we should change the game into something else just because the tools (dev interaction and CSM) are there — if anything, they're there to keep the spirit of the game the way it is.
You're asking why we have these tools if we can't question how things work. My answer is: mu. Some things can't be questioned — and that's a good thing — the tools are there for everything else.
You are asking for measures that will frighten off scammers and theives — measures that aren't needed and which would put a damper on one of the most unique characteristics of the game.
Quote: Hell yes, everyone should be able to pull off something really nasty to people he or she played together with for a long time with the availability to get away with it carefree
Yes. Why not? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.13 08:29:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Tippia Yes. Why not?
Simply because every single whiner here continues to support the fact that EVE is a harsh world.
Everything you do else bares consequences, yet one of the most annoying things encountered by people can be done consequence free.
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lisacurie
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Posted - 2009.07.13 10:35:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Okay OP check this out, k. In June I lost a billion in personal assets to a corp thief. At the very least the guy will have to spend even more RL cash on new alts so he can appear innocent. Vengeance is always within your grasp.
The trouble is if some established character is in your corp for example and the scam a bunch of stuff to jf/jc to nullsec/empire if they get enough in assets they can buy a new toon in game with taht isk and be completely untraceable. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SCAMMING / THEIVING BEING IN THE GAME. Its just the whole Risk vs Reward - for scammers there is no RISK for them if they can simple switch to a new character. I'm not sure how that can be fixed, but im pretty sure that it should be addressed. Most scams are very obvious - its some of the thefts that are unable to be punished whatsoever - there is no mechanic fo punishing someone who steals enough to buy another character.
For a long time i've hated that you can buy characters in eve - it amounts to cheating in my opinion. I could get my friend to join eve buy a hundred gtc's and sell them legitimately ingame and then buy a character. The only real way to stop the big corp thefts or to punnish them it is to stop the selling/buying of toons ingame - something that wont happen.
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Tychus
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Posted - 2009.07.13 10:56:00 -
[134]
I sir, would like to welcome you to 2003. Perhaps you would like to peruse a fine selection of scamming history in Eve? Open your browser and type " Eve scamming" in the google box. No suprises.
Invest isk in yourself: buy BPOs, faction gear/tags for resale, become a merchant/trader type. Don't expect CCP to provide a SEC for you. And if they did, don't trust them anyway. A healthy (ahem) dose of self motivation and paranoia will take you a lot farther in Eve than expecting someone to bust their ass for your benefit.
T
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Foulque
Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.07.13 11:13:00 -
[135]
Quote: CCP favors scammers, thieves and griefers
It's one of the things makes Eve iteresting, without it Eve would just be a terrible version of WoW with pretty space backgrounds. ________
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.13 11:29:00 -
[136]
Originally by: lisacurie
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Okay OP check this out, k. In June I lost a billion in personal assets to a corp thief. At the very least the guy will have to spend even more RL cash on new alts so he can appear innocent. Vengeance is always within your grasp.
The trouble is if some established character is in your corp for example and the scam a bunch of stuff to jf/jc to nullsec/empire if they get enough in assets they can buy a new toon in game with taht isk and be completely untraceable. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SCAMMING / THEIVING BEING IN THE GAME. Its just the whole Risk vs Reward - for scammers there is no RISK for them if they can simple switch to a new character. I'm not sure how that can be fixed, but im pretty sure that it should be addressed. Most scams are very obvious - its some of the thefts that are unable to be punished whatsoever - there is no mechanic fo punishing someone who steals enough to buy another character.
For a long time i've hated that you can buy characters in eve - it amounts to cheating in my opinion. I could get my friend to join eve buy a hundred gtc's and sell them legitimately ingame and then buy a character. The only real way to stop the big corp thefts or to punnish them it is to stop the selling/buying of toons ingame - something that wont happen.
It is necessary to have those big corp thefts you speak of. They are the risk that a corp runs in becoming overly large and powerful.
Also: please dont lump corp thefts in with scamming. They're two seperate phenomenae.
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Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.13 12:14:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Malcanis Also: please dont lump corp thefts in with scamming. They're two seperate phenomenae.
It's not that I lump them into the same categorie overall. I lump the fact that, after scams or large corptheft, it's so darn easy to avoid every bit of crap that could happen to you.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.07.13 12:43:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Killer Gandry Simply because every single whiner here continues to support the fact that EVE is a harsh world.
Yes. The scammers and theives are the embodiment of that harshness.
Quote: Everything you do else bares consequences, yet one of the most annoying things encountered by people can be done consequence free.
What you're complaining about bares consequences too, it's just that you either don't see them or don't consider them harsh enough. In addition, everything else can also be done consequence-free as long as you plan it well.
Does this mean that the whiners are wrong? No. It simply means that when they harp on about how "EVE is a harsh world", they leave out an important corollary: "…if you're stupid." ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Malfournis
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Posted - 2009.07.13 13:43:00 -
[139]
Just as a reply to the OP:
It's a game. Get over yourself, and treat it as such. If somebody scams within the game and gets away with it... so what? Is it fundamentally changing how you're going to be able to play it?
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Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.13 16:12:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Malfournis Is it fundamentally changing how you're going to be able to play it?
It would change quit a bit in the game, not just for me.
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Vertinox
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Posted - 2009.07.13 17:20:00 -
[141]
Although I personally don't mind the wild west nature of Eve. If would be interesting if CCP could mark bills so a player with the skill "Fraud Investigation" could track where money went.
On a second related note, high sec players who give money or trade with low sec standing players so take a hit themselves.
So if you have an alt who money launders to his pirate buddy, he'll loose standing until he is a pirate himself.
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Vicky Somers
Caldari Rusty Anchor
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Posted - 2009.07.13 18:24:00 -
[142]
Expecting to not get blown up in EVE is like going to a bar full of bikers and expecting not to get into a fight. One way to avoid being grieved is to stop playing EVE. Another way is to get yourself over it. You've lost a ship, better luck next time. Take it like a man and be a good sport about it. Fun for hire! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.13 19:35:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Malcanis Also: please dont lump corp thefts in with scamming. They're two seperate phenomenae.
It's not that I lump them into the same categorie overall. I lump the fact that, after scams or large corptheft, it's so darn easy to avoid every bit of crap that could happen to you.
Yeah, and an untanked Iteron V will die in a couple of seconds to a gank-fit battlecruiser.
OMG!
ALL BATTLECRUISERS MUST THEREFORE BE OVERPOWERED! CCP MUST ADD A MODULE CAPABLE OF DESTROYING A BATTLECRUISER TO INDUSTRIALS OR THE GAME IS UNBALANCED! RUINED! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!
Of course, you could just decline to put your indy in front of a battlecruiser, just like you could actually read a contract before accepting it or you could do a background check on someone before letting him light a cyno for your carrier when he's only been in corp 3 days, or giving him hangar access, or lending him your Nightmare, just like you could decide not to AFK haul 25,000m^2 of T2 mods in an untanked hauler.
Scammers, corp thieves and indeed suicide gankers dont face much risk because they prey on careless, foolish people. They are the risk for bad players. The "risk" they run is that people will stop being careless, lazy or just plain dumb. The fact that that isn't a very high risk isn't a design flaw in EvE. It's not unbalanced because all you have to do to counter them is not be dumb.
Why should the game be balanced to protect lazy, careless or dumb people? How would you do this. Please make a suggestion.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.13 19:37:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Vicky Somers Expecting to not get blown up in EVE is like going to a bar full of bikers and expecting not to get into a fight. One way to avoid being grieved is to stop playing EVE. Another way is to get yourself over it. You've lost a ship, better luck next time. Take it like a man and be a good sport about it.
A lot of people- probably the majority- never get "grieved" in EvE.
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BoBoZoBo
Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.07.13 20:41:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Babel
Originally by: Killer Gandry CCP clearly sort of says,
I like this phrase :)
UBER WIN
=========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9 |
Malfournis
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Posted - 2009.07.13 21:57:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Malfournis Is it fundamentally changing how you're going to be able to play it?
It would change quit a bit in the game, not just for me.
How so? I assume you've been the direct target or victim of scams and such, yes? Can you give an estimate of how much you've lost in such a manner, vs. how much you've actually made? I've the opinion that the amount made while scamming is actually quite low against what it is that people 'make' in this game. I'd have a real hard time seeing how scamming, etc., would even begin to make a dent in the macro and micro economies of EVE- whether this be at the player/corporation/alliance/item/market/trade hub/whatever else level.
So, if scamming and it's friends were against the EULA, what would this really change, and why and how?
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MightyRhinox
Minmatar Rhinox Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.14 06:03:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: MightyRhinox Institute a litigation system. You can sue people for a fee (say 10% of your loss), if it's an alt you're suing and you win, you can drive their account balance into the red and the alt can't be deleted until it's in the black again. The CSM could appoint judges to deal with the cases. The judges can examine the case, decide whether the victim was stupid or has a legitimate claim, decide penalties, damages etc.
Next up: goons start suing people right and left
Well yeah, this works both ways, it introduces a new way to take action against thieves and scammers but also gives the corrupt a new tool to play with. There's no reason you couldn't simply bribe the judge...
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.14 06:07:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Malcanis on 14/07/2009 06:09:34
Originally by: MightyRhinox
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: MightyRhinox Institute a litigation system. You can sue people for a fee (say 10% of your loss), if it's an alt you're suing and you win, you can drive their account balance into the red and the alt can't be deleted until it's in the black again. The CSM could appoint judges to deal with the cases. The judges can examine the case, decide whether the victim was stupid or has a legitimate claim, decide penalties, damages etc.
Next up: goons start suing people right and left
Well yeah, this works both ways, it introduces a new way to take action against thieves and scammers but also gives the corrupt a new tool to play with. There's no reason you couldn't simply bribe the judge...
Exactly. The only way to make a game like EvE "fair" for stupid people is for them to stop being stupid. Otherwise it's like trying to rewrite the rules of american football so that a guy in a wheelchair has a "fair" chance.
The whole point of EvE is that the sneaky, clever, treacherous guys come out on top (or at least that they have a huge advantage). That's what the game is about; CCP does not legislate any advantages for being nice. Or dumb.
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Killer Gandry
Caldari Red Horizon Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.14 07:17:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Malfournis
How so? I assume you've been the direct target or victim of scams and such, yes? Can you give an estimate of how much you've lost in such a manner, vs. how much you've actually made? I've the opinion that the amount made while scamming is actually quite low against what it is that people 'make' in this game. I'd have a real hard time seeing how scamming, etc., would even begin to make a dent in the macro and micro economies of EVE- whether this be at the player/corporation/alliance/item/market/trade hub/whatever else level.
So, if scamming and it's friends were against the EULA, what would this really change, and why and how?
Reading your reply makes clear that you are too stupid to give a real reply to. You canŠt even read so why bother.
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Ardetia
Caldari The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.14 07:24:00 -
[150]
can someone please just lock this
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