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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.07.14 10:36:00 -
[1]
so there are 4 new implant sets boosting racial sensors. the go into the normal slot sets. grail - amarr jackal - minmatar spur - gallente talon - caldari
the bonuses seem to be (all normal grade bonuses are not cumulative with low grade ones): low-grade alpha to gamma: +1 sensor (uses same slot as normal grade) alpha to gamma: +1% to +5% to sensorstr, +15% to the whole set low-grade omega: +40% to low grade set only omega: +100% to normal grade only
still having problems with ecm eh? imho this set is very specified, perhaps too much. i doubt many ppl can really afford to switch implant sets (jumpclones may be an option). ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Vim
Spook Division
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Posted - 2009.07.14 11:30:00 -
[2]
Sounds very neat, but way to specific to bring 4 different sensor increasing implant groups in. Secondly... Id consider fitting thoose implants if their lp cost is ehm, reasonable, you buy yourself roughly a free midslot eccm. Few will think its worth 2b(aka high grade faction sets with 1.8k isk/lp) or even 600ishm(low grades) If they give +2 to stats and cost between +3/+4s to takeout of lp store. Sure, it might be used abit more commonly. Else, its very specific content few will take advantage of because of to high a ingame cost; as usual.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.14 12:50:00 -
[3]
First i thought it was too much increase, 75%. However it is less than an ECCM mod and only works on ships of one race. Meanwhile the pirate implants are mostly effective (if i am correct) than the module they 'replace'.
They wont be as expensive as HG pirate implants, so i think they end up pretty fine.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.07.14 14:11:00 -
[4]
hg set is +60% strenght 60D GTC - shattared link |
Jameroz
Echoes of Space
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Posted - 2009.07.14 15:51:00 -
[5]
Is it just me or is that rather stupid to bring each race their own set? Not that many players fly only one race ships and with limited amount of jump clones...
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jameroz Is it just me or is that rather stupid to bring each race their own set? Not that many players fly only one race ships and with limited amount of jump clones...
Imo its a good idea. THen one gotta choose what race one wants, so not to make em too strong. Game balance and all ;)
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:16:00 -
[7]
I think it's a good idea to keep them from being too strong, and also rewards people for specializing in one race and making it work, rather than jumping onto whatever the FOTM happens to be.
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Lady Aja
Caldari The White Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:38:00 -
[8]
plugged ina hg grail set and my curse went to 72 radar str, then used two radar str mods and it rocketed to 136....
lol these might be a stealth nerf to jamming.
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Lady Aja
Caldari The White Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kalintos Tyl hg set is +60% strenght
make sure you got ya facts right...
this from dev blog...
Quote: 3. Low-grade navy implant sets (available for all FW militias):
Total set effects: +2 to all character attributes, +7 racial sensor strength
4. High-grade navy implant sets (available for all FW militias):
Total set effects: +3 to all character attributes, +75% racial sensor strength
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iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DevBlog 3. Low-grade navy implant sets (available for all FW militias): Total set effects: +2 to all character attributes, +7 racial sensor strength Total set requirements: 12,000 LP, 12m ISK, 5x +2 implants, 1x hardwiring - zainou 'gypsy' KLB-25
4. High-grade navy implant sets (available for all FW militias): Total set effects: +3 to all character attributes, +75% racial sensor strength Total set requirements: 121,000 LP, 121m ISK, 5x +3 implants, 1x hardwiring - zainou 'gypsy' KLB-50
I estimate the LP value of FW stores at around 2000-3000 isk/lp. According to that, the low grade set will probably cost somewhere around 50 mil., the high grade around 500mil.
My skills Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.11 / Gallente Federation -9.99 |
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Artassaut
Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.07.14 23:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lady Aja plugged ina hg grail set and my curse went to 72 radar str, then used two radar str mods and it rocketed to 136....
lol these might be a stealth nerf to jamming.
Don't forget sensor strength also makes you harder to scan down with probes. --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U. |
Lady Aja
Caldari The White Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.15 09:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Artassaut
Originally by: Lady Aja plugged ina hg grail set and my curse went to 72 radar str, then used two radar str mods and it rocketed to 136....
lol these might be a stealth nerf to jamming.
Don't forget sensor strength also makes you harder to scan down with probes.
I think you mean harder to jam. what youre thinking of is sig radius vs scan probe strength, which is what halo's do :)
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Artassaut
Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.07.15 10:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: Artassaut
Originally by: Lady Aja plugged ina hg grail set and my curse went to 72 radar str, then used two radar str mods and it rocketed to 136....
lol these might be a stealth nerf to jamming.
Don't forget sensor strength also makes you harder to scan down with probes.
I think you mean harder to jam. what youre thinking of is sig radius vs scan probe strength, which is what halo's do :)
Weird, I had always remembered it as "Scan = Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength", unless they've changed that with Apocrypha.
I haven't done any tests to see if this is still the case though. --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U. |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:40:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 15/07/2009 15:40:55
Originally by: Artassaut So these implants will make it harder to pinpoint a target down.
correct
never has the unprobe'able scimitar been so easy to achieve or the unprobeable link-legion although that was pretty easy already
oh and halos just got even more useless - putting the gist back into logistics |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider but low-grades adding a flat amount (+7 w/ omega)... not sure if that is a wise thing to do.
I think it's pretty clear that they're intended for the smaller ships. It's a good idea in a way, since part of the problem with ECCMs on smaller ships (apart from the lack of slots anyway) is that doubling a fairly small number is still a fairly small number. Giving an absolute bonus means that the low-grade set is probably about equivalent to a high-grade set for people flying small ships, yet it can be made cheap enough to be feasible for younger players (25-50m isn't bad for the benefits) without being overpowered on larger ships.
Pretty nice move.
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Azuse
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:36:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Azuse on 15/07/2009 19:38:57 As nice as these are to counter jamming, it's already currently possible to make cruisers unprobable* relatively easily, particularly with t3. These open up the possibility for doing the same with bc hulls or at the least increase the proliferation of unprobable ships which i doubt is intended. After all if it were, then why would ccp continually tell us they want to remove afk cloakers, an unprobable ship is essentially the same thing.
For the uninitiated, there is a flaw in the probing formula ccp uses (much like the 0m = 0 hits flaw in the tracking formula) that means if the discrepincy between your signal strength relative to your signature radius becomes great enough then you simply cannot be probed out, as in you physically cannot get a strong enough hit to warp to them. With frigs the values are proportionate but should you increase the sig strength of a cruiser hull high enough... More to the point probes on non-covert ships is currently almost redundant, but actually making dedicated probers useless does make one wonder.
Honestly it would be nice to hear the ccp line one this because if this goes live in its current state then i won't even have to bother putting a cloak on an alt should i choose to harass people. Hello afk eve
*By unprobable i mean assuming a maxed skilled, tii rigged, implant laden character i.e. there is no physical way an ingame character can find you via probes. -------------------------
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 21:54:00 -
[17]
can you make it any more complicated... ^^
<100% is fail, simple as that
eccm works against probes, especially if it's imps - assuming those aren't subject to stacking penalty (is there any imp...?) +75% on a high grade set will thus devide current results by 4 - putting the gist back into logistics |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.16 11:00:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 16/07/2009 11:00:37
Originally by: Azuse ... More to the point probes on non-covert ships is currently almost redundant, but actually making dedicated probers useless does make one wonder.
*By unprobable i mean assuming a maxed skilled, tii rigged, implant laden character i.e. there is no physical way an ingame character can find you via probes.
Skills don't improve the sensor strength or decrease the sig radius. Also i don't know any rigs that do this, even if there were some, they'd not be common, since there are much more useful rigs to put in the rig slots. Someone might be unprobable in a artificial and uncommon setup - that has not much other use than being unprobable. Also those implants won't be as common as people think: In environments, where the clone is safe (highsec, lowsec), people will prefer at least 2x +5 clones. And in 0.0, where people get podded frequently because of bubbles, not many will use a 500 million isk implant set. So outside some odd comedy setups and testing ships, hardly anyone will be unprobable, and even 1% of all ships were, dedicated probers are far from being useless. You could also say dedicated jammers are useless, because there might be some ships that they can not jam anymore. Or dedicated missile users are useless, because there are some ships in eve that are faster than missiles.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.07.16 11:54:00 -
[19]
well... a link-damnation can be taken out of the equation by shooting or otherwise penetrating it nastily. unless it's inside a pos ofc, but let's talk about a strictly "offensive" damnation
now tell me how you're gonna get rid of the following, sitting somewhere on a safe spot?
[Legion, New Setup 1] Dread Guristas Co-Processor Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Warded Radar Backup Cluster I
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Command Processor I Command Processor I
Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense Armored Warfare Link - Rapid Repair [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Legion Defensive - Warfare Processor Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Legion Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Legion Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
and that's prior to these imps already - i believe i exaggerated on the eccm even -.-
or may i introduce you to my lvl-4-low-sec-machine:
[Vagabond, New Setup 5] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster Large Peroxide I Capacitor Power Cell Domination 10MN Afterburner Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
True Sansha Medium Nosferatu 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, EMP M
Projectile Ambit Extension II Projectile Ambit Extension II
even the low-grade set will add 50% sensor. all that can probe me then will be a HIGHLY specialized cov-ops or t3-probe-subsystems. to pick up your number: i'm sure even less than 1% of probers come with the virtue set -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.16 14:21:00 -
[20]
As example you take a t3 ship, which still costs over a billion with the subsystem, and which is gimped by losing 2 med-slots to the ECCM modules. Or another expensive fitted expensive cruiser. Make an example with a battleship maybe ? No one says that you deserve to be able to probe everyone 100%, have a "always win" button. If someone fits counter-modules and implants, he deserves to escape your probing. If you fit a warp disruptor and the target fits a warp core stab, it can nullify your warp disruptor effect. Does this make warp disruptors useless ?
Also compare it to other modules. With only 1 cloaking device you can even hide a carrier from probers. Don't bring that extreme expensive stuff with specific eccm modules and implants as a representative for the rest of Eve's ships.
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ollobrains
Aurora Nomads
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Posted - 2009.07.17 11:04:00 -
[21]
yup sounds like some unintended outcomes of these changes good idea but the scan probe formula needs a tweaky
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: Artassaut
Originally by: Lady Aja plugged ina hg grail set and my curse went to 72 radar str, then used two radar str mods and it rocketed to 136....
lol these might be a stealth nerf to jamming.
Don't forget sensor strength also makes you harder to scan down with probes.
I think you mean harder to jam. what youre thinking of is sig radius vs scan probe strength, which is what halo's do :)
HIgher sensor strenght also makes you harder to detect. The comapre is SENSOR strenght/sign radius of target ship versus the probe strenght.
If you put 6 ECCM on a ship it does make it very very hard to probe
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 20:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Don't bring that extreme expensive stuff with specific eccm modules and implants as a representative for the rest of Eve's ships.
the vaga was merely fit for solo lvl4 missions *shrug*
but if you want something pvp'ish-er:
[Scimitar, New Setup 2] Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Shield Extender II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
currently requires _perfect_ prober - can log with agrgo once i get hands on the lg ladar set -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
Lady Aja
Caldari The White Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.18 09:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: Artassaut
Originally by: Lady Aja plugged ina hg grail set and my curse went to 72 radar str, then used two radar str mods and it rocketed to 136....
lol these might be a stealth nerf to jamming.
Don't forget sensor strength also makes you harder to scan down with probes.
I think you mean harder to jam. what youre thinking of is sig radius vs scan probe strength, which is what halo's do :)
HIgher sensor strenght also makes you harder to detect. The comapre is SENSOR strenght/sign radius of target ship versus the probe strenght.
If you put 6 ECCM on a ship it does make it very very hard to probe
so youre saying the higher the racial sensor strength the hard to probe down???? then why cant a titan hide or a mother ship? they have racial sensor strengths of 150 and 200 or so each...
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Lord Haur
Amarr Cursed Souls
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Posted - 2009.07.18 14:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Seishu Maru so youre saying the higher the racial sensor strength the hard to probe down???? then why cant a titan hide or a mother ship? they have racial sensor strengths of 150 and 200 or so each...
Originally by: Lady Aja The comapre is SENSOR strenght/sign radius of target ship versus the probe strenght.
Yes, the titans etc. have huge sensor strengths, however, they are absolutely MASSIVE. (High sensor strength/high sig radius) = (low sensor strength/low sig radius)
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Azuse
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.18 14:52:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Azuse on 18/07/2009 14:52:44 Well just for the record you can make a mom unprbable if you use a falcon and claymore with their remote eccms, none of them can be probed meaning your mom is basically an invincible fighter hanger. Titans arn't much different, true you don't have fighters but then again, so long as you have the alts in the falcon and claymore, you can't die.
Doesn't seem intended to me and that's before you factor in t3s ability to act as an unprobable command ships with the cov ops and interdiction subsystems to boot i.e. it can go anywhere it's needed then just sit at a safe boosting it's fleet. So not only is the prober so is the fleet command
This thread explains the maths in more detail however it's based on current mechanics, and assumes a maxed, implanted character, and doesn't factor in the new implants meaning it's only going to become easer and more prevalent.
Alliance want to boost fleets it uses and unprobable t3 in place fo an on grid/posed, destructible, command ship. Player want to keep mom safe while ppl use its fighters, 2 alts/gang mebers = unprobable. etc.. -------------------------
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 10:45:00 -
[27]
well.. claymore/loki for sig reduction, eos/proteus for sensor bonus
for the rest indeed remote eccm.
as cheap, both ISK and SP, "remote cloaks" i can throw in the [Griffin, New Setup 1] Capacitor Power Relay I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
[empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
- putting the gist back into logistics |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.19 20:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Azuse Well just for the record you can make a mom unprbable if you use a falcon and claymore with their remote eccms
This doesn't work for motherships or Titans - the calculation was based on incorrect EFT sensor strength values of 1000. The correct values are 150 for motherships and 200 for titans.
However, it should be possible to make it work for standard carriers. I'm running a test to check, and would appreciate people's help:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1122792 --- 34.4:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 04:26:00 -
[29]
so... can we expect a boost to halos then?
numerically par with talisman (e.a.) for example wouldn't be too much; inversion of -38.12% (high-grade) would be +61.6% which is hardly omfg compared to slaves or crystals.
yes, i am aware signature helps both armor and shields (well... and hull) but i have yet to see a ship/fitting that sucessfully employs that theory - ships tank one way and thus halos merely underline that one way - IF the weapon that's hitting you is actually "bigger" than you; cerberus with "small" assault launchers still ****s a scimitar (*hugs gypsio*). so, currently snakes still make more sense on a scimitar.
you wouldn't pick them for low-sec missions either as soon as the eccm sets make it into the game. heck, even those make more sense on a scimitar than halos.
if i was able to at least make you consider how insignificant signature bonuses are these days, despite their rumored versatility, could i direct your attention to x-instinct boosters....? titan/claymore bonus are ok: one is powerful, the other usually comes with extra speed boost. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Muugly
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Posted - 2009.07.21 07:30:00 -
[30]
that really blows having to pick what race to boost. also what else is CCP going to do to nerf falcons??
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