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Ghengis Khan
Minmatar tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.07.14 14:06:00 -
[31]
"its ok... i have a few t2 bpo's left over from way back and thanks to them I rake in about 17 "b"ill a week."
rofl.
even the "good" bpos (logistics, dictors, hacs) maybe yield you 1-1.5 bn isk a month max. sometimes prices spike but not for long. so whoever said that either just wanted to make you jealous or is just full of poo. there are certain t2-power production corps out there for sure but only very few. and not everyone is khatred who has 80+ t2 bpos.
so whoever told you the fairy tales...the "good" days of the t2 bpos are over. however they will not be removed from the game so you better accept it.
just a note: if you check the ROI on the t2 bpos out there and compare them to other sorts of income, you will find out that regular freighter-bpc copying yields you more ROI than a t2 bpo...
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Beldaws
Gallente Maniac Miners
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Posted - 2009.07.14 14:17:00 -
[32]
They all have some ME/PE research but more research would really be a waste of time on most of them. Most of the bpos that are collecting dust are ammo and mods that people don't use much or there isn't much profit in compared to the ones I do build from.
I've been considering locking down the bpos that I don't use and opening up my corp to new recruits that want to use them to make isk.
Originally by: Malcanis
Out of curiousity, which BPOs are gathering dust? Have you considered putting them in for ME/PE improvement rather than just have them lay idle? Or running off BPCs for sale?
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.07.14 14:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Quote: So plz.. everyone give me and CCP your thought... I really want to know whats going on here... and what I really want is for you to Either get rid of the t2 BPO's... or make it realistically possible for me to get them too. I dont care if you turn them into 200 run copies and leave their incredible research on them so long as they do run out and those who want to be t2 builders are all on the same playing field. I dont think its too much to ask for everyone in eve to be playing the same game. And dont kid yourself... right now we are not!
Well we got an Eagle BPO at the weekend that was on open in-game auction free for anyone in Eve to bid on. In the end we won with a bid of 50billion plus. Thats capitalism baby.
You can say its difficult for you to get a tech2 bpo - and that would be fair comment. But it is not (and never has been) "impossible."
I fail to see why your plaintive call to have our 50billion isk radically devalued by having the thing turned into a 200 run or replicated is in any way reasonable.
Save up the money, form an investment cartel - hell, borrow some cash from ebank and get bidding.
50B, holy hell it's worth 50B!?? Mine's just sitting there collecting dust and ME.
If anything there should be more tech II BPOs not less.
Static moons is the problem here, not a few BPOs.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |

voogru
Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.07.14 14:30:00 -
[34]
Most T2 BPO's will be removed from the game all on their own.
Here is how it will happen.
The reason prints are selling for so much is because there are certain players building up large T2 bpo collections. They have disposable ISK and the only thing they can really dispose of it to is T2 BPO's.
Eventually, they acquire significant amounts of T2 bpos. So what's gonna happen now?
They are uber mega wtf rich, what are they going to do?
Make more ISK? What for? They already have more ISK than god. PVP Forever? Even that gets boring too.
So what's left to do?
1. Quit 2. Real-Money Trade
For #1, Players not producing from T2 bpos anymore. For #2, CCP bans them and all of their accounts which hold the said T2 bpos. T2 bpos not re-introduced.
In the event that they hand off the T2 bpos to a friend (doubtful), eventually the T2 bpos will land in the hands that will do RMT.
Tada! T2 bpos removed from game.
Also, if you think removing T2 bpos will increase invention profits, you are mistaken. Look at the items FOR WHICH NO T2 BPOS exist.
I officially rate this thread 2/10.
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Kiri Serrensun
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Malcanis Out of curiousity, which BPOs are gathering dust? Have you considered putting them in for ME/PE improvement rather than just have them lay idle? Or running off BPCs for sale?
They might be for stuff like the Gremlin Javelin Rocket and Omni ECCM II. 
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Yelan Zhou
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:39:00 -
[36]
Well I dont have one but I will never understand all this crying about them.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:51:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kiri Serrensun
Originally by: Malcanis Out of curiousity, which BPOs are gathering dust? Have you considered putting them in for ME/PE improvement rather than just have them lay idle? Or running off BPCs for sale?
They might be for stuff like the Gremlin Javelin Rocket and Omni ECCM II. 
Who knows but that CCP might un-nerf rockets one day!
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Panzram
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.14 20:32:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Panzram on 14/07/2009 20:33:00 I'm pleased to announce that GoonSwarm has recently come into possession of the Gravimetric Backup Array II BPO! And it didn't cost a single isk. Oldma, dictator of the former IRC alliance gave it to us gratis along with several capital component and BS BPOs out of the kindness of his heart, and by putting them all in a covops and flying in into a bubblecamp. Anyway you CAN still get them with luck alone, and dumb enemies.
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
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Posted - 2009.07.14 21:09:00 -
[39]
I wonder if anyone buys tech 2 bpos for the explicit purpose of destroying them? Or would it be too tempting to keep a hold of them?
Which ones have been destroyed or as good as?
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Afrodite Etnellag
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Posted - 2009.07.14 21:24:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Afrodite Etnellag on 14/07/2009 21:33:16
we producing 50 tech2 bpos and make 5-6 bils a week, we use 5 spec chars just for the tech2 production, another 5 for the tech1 and comps, 10 chars for just 50 prints, i could build capital ships, with exactly the same profit,
we run 3 empire pos, we haul arround empire every day all day, and we reprice the damn things every day 4-5 times all over empire, just to make maximum profit,
do you think its is easy?? seriously invention is much less profitable, but hey you have not spent 1000s of ours mining to make isks to buy the fricking prints as we did back then, we WERE NOT the lucky ones with the lottery
We are investing with a break even of 4 years thats 25% return of initial investment per YEAR, so lets run the numbers, i spent 20 bils to make 5 in a year or 0.4 per month, thats 0.02% per month hellooooooo!!! I do not even calculate the ammount of isks locked down in materials for the production to run smooth i can make solo 10% profit per month for every isk i invest on just reselling, thats 120% per year, with nowhere near the pain in the ass of the tech2 prints and with 300 orders per character,instead of 11 production slots per character, ARE YOU FRICKING JOKING??????
Tech2 prints make the less money in the game, we just do it because is what we always did for the past 5 years and the only thing that we do good, nomatter if we make less than the average joe that began the game 6-7 months ago and has some brains(those you do not make thread such as this)
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N'tek alar
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Posted - 2009.07.14 21:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Marika Sol
1) T2 BPO's are still in the game. 2) New Players can't get them 3) Old players don't want to give them up 4) Hundreds or thousands of people have a problem with it 5) CCP wont do anything about them because they "supposedly" don't give any advantage over invention 6) If that were true it would not be an issue... they would get rid of them and consider they have done those holding them a favor. 7) Waaa waa whine whine. One guy WHINES because he has no T2 bpo... another guy whines even harder because he has one and doesn't like the first guy bringing it to anyone's attention how he's been ripping them off for years.
1) Yes they are. 2) Yes they can, As has already been stated, you can buy them from other players which is exactly how most of those who have them now got them in the first place. 3) There's actually quite a few t2 bpos getting sold back and forth. 4) "hundreds of thousands" so, you're saying every single eve player have a problem with it then? Err, Sorry but at the very least, that's a huge exaggeration, I don't have a t2 bpo, never did, nor do any of my friends ingame, Guess what? none of us have ever complained about them existing. 5) Guess what? It's true!! I've got a friend who's done invention, I've even done some myself, It's far from impossible to make a profit on it. 6) Except that doing so would basically mean that they stole tens of billions from those who bought them. 7) indeed, how about you start? |

Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn
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Posted - 2009.07.14 22:24:00 -
[42]
The whole t2 bpo thing is actually a lot simpler. Just ask yourself this question:
What is the difference between Eve Online and Wonderboy?
Exactly. One is a persistent game universe, the other is not. Wonderboy reboots the entire universe every time you drop in a quarter, EVE just puts it away into its closet to the other stuff. And like every sufficiently old closet, it piles up the odd skeleton here or there.
This is what the essence of EVE is. If you don't like it, try Wonderboy.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.07.14 22:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: voogru Also, if you think removing T2 bpos will increase invention profits, you are mistaken. Look at the items FOR WHICH NO T2 BPOS exist.
Items for which no T2 BPOs exist have a better invention success rate than items for which a T2 BPO exists. Hyenas are easy to invent. Cheetahs, not so easy; it's about 1/2 the success rate compared to Hyenas.
Maybe they've rebalanced that since last year, but my inventor saw that sort of disparity when he invented EAS, Covert Ops, and Command Ships right after invention was introduced. Command Ships are hard to invent. Really hard.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Josh Silver
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.14 23:04:00 -
[44]
Who cares I just want cheap T2 lasers, heatsinks, tracking and damage controls.
I wonder who got the 1600mm Armorplate II BPO and how he feels :P
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Herty
The Sexy Carebear Boredom Convention
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Posted - 2009.07.14 23:07:00 -
[45]
I have only been playing for maybe 7 months now and when I try I can easily make over a bill a day in only a couple hours of work. So lets say I want to buy a super expensive t2 bpo for 100bill. So in about 3 months (more or less because I have good and bad days) I'll have my bpo. Now what? Do I get involved in this whole conspiracy and supposedly make more money then I already do? So again why are you complaining when getting a t2 bpo, even an expensive one, isn't impossible for anyone to get?
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HankMurphy
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.07.15 02:47:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Digiball
u can buy my ishtar bpo for say 100 bill.. convo me if interested.,,
why not just offer it to me for a bagillion gazillion isk? 
look, the fact they are in the game doesn't affect much.
that said, i'm against all forms of static income, so, ditch the bpos and replace them with 300run bpcs ---------- Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy mother*****r |

Beldaws
Gallente Maniac Miners
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Posted - 2009.07.15 02:52:00 -
[47]
Actually I do have a full set of T2 rocket bpos that I never build from. 
Originally by: Kiri Serrensun
Originally by: Malcanis Out of curiousity, which BPOs are gathering dust? Have you considered putting them in for ME/PE improvement rather than just have them lay idle? Or running off BPCs for sale?
They might be for stuff like the Gremlin Javelin Rocket and Omni ECCM II. 
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.07.15 03:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Digiball
u can buy my ishtar bpo for say 100 bill.. convo me if interested.,,
why not just offer it to me for a bagillion gazillion isk? 
look, the fact they are in the game doesn't affect much.
that said, i'm against all forms of static income, so, ditch the bpos and replace them with 300run bpcs
We're in luck the Brutor Tribe carries immense political clout.
100B is a price he might actually get, single collectibles with little other value than as eye candy have fetched about that in less inflated times.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.07.15 03:11:00 -
[49]
The reason T2 BPOs haven't been converted to BPCs yet, despite the promises and overwhelming logic supporting such a move, is because CCP is timid.
They don't want to fix a problem which few people understand, only to generate a barrage of whines from both BPO owners and the general populace (following the increase of T2 prices across the board).
And even if they do "want" to fix the problem, its not high on the priority list. When they do, most of the people playing the game wouldn't have been around when T2 BPOs were seeded. They'd be like "What? T2 BPOs exist? NO WAI. GG CCP LOL @ WHINERZ".
And the price wouldn't jump as drastically then, because most of the T2 BPO owners got bored of printing isk and quit the game long ago 
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.07.15 03:12:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 15/07/2009 03:15:29
Originally by: DigitalCommunist The reason T2 BPOs haven't been converted to BPCs yet, despite the promises and overwhelming logic supporting such a move, is because CCP is timid.
They don't want to fix a problem which few people understand, only to generate a barrage of whines from both BPO owners and the general populace (following the increase of T2 prices across the board).
And even if they do "want" to fix the problem, its not high on the priority list. When they do, most of the people playing the game wouldn't have been around when T2 BPOs were seeded. They'd be like "What? T2 BPOs exist? NO WAI. GG CCP LOL @ WHINERZ".
And the price wouldn't jump as drastically then, because most of the T2 BPO owners got bored of printing isk and quit the game long ago 
Oh yes it's printing isk all day long without holding the moons providing the ink. 
What I don't get is people whining about tech II BPOs at all, aren't they supposed to become the norm and readily available once tech III is commonplace, tech IV is on the way and what about when tech V hits, still no more tech II BPOs?
CCP took a wrong turn killing the lottery, it should still be on seeding more and more prints till the market was saturated and only new pilots flew tech I and invention was geared towards tech III only.
Are we expected to grind invention jobs for tech II still as part of making tech V items?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.07.15 03:27:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Oh yes it's printing isk all day long without holding the moons providing the ink. 
What I don't get is people whining about tech II BPOs at all, aren't they supposed to become the norm and readily available once tech III is commonplace, tech IV is on the way and what about when tech V hits, still no more tech II BPOs?
CCP took a wrong turn killing the lottery, it should still be on seeding more and more prints till the market was saturated and only new pilots flew tech I and invention was geared towards tech III only.
Are we expected to grind invention jobs for tech II still as part of making tech V items?
Good god. I'm genuinely confused over whether you're being extremely sarcastic.
In case you are, then you got me. I R TROLLD.
In case you're not.. what? Anyone who participates in the forums for a long time should know the arguments clearly by now. A person who doesn't buy into them is either clouded by personal interest or not very good with economics.
My guess is you own T2 BPOs. Which is like Bell telling the CRTC that introducing DPI, low caps and high overage is all in the interests of competition/consumers :VVVVVVVVV
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Spurty
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 03:31:00 -
[52]
CCP really needs to remove T1 named gear (not faction).
When I started this game, I ran all sorts of numbers on the time and effort of production.
All I can say is I take my hat off to anyone that does it, its so bleeding tedious.
Oh and many people are undercutting prices on the markets not so much because they don't know how much it cost them to create, but because those people got the modules for free (PVP, rawr, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle), they just want a quick buck.
While ships that explode drop anything but salvage, you will be hard pressed to see anything but ship prices stay high.
Eagle BPO for 50bill was good to read, someone thinks they have value.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here
i was thinking earlier about corpses...
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.07.15 03:44:00 -
[53]
When I got a BPO I got a BPO, I'm not interested in downgrading my service. It's like telling everyone all the BPOs in game are now limited run BPCs. Will that go over well, probably not. Will everyone be interested in grinding for each base item, I think not.
Do I think the market should be flooded with tech II BPOs by now, hell yes. Do I have tech II BPOs that theoretically would suffer from this, yes sure but not the best ones but that's not really the issue here nor is the non-impact of the existing BPOs on the market.
The issue is do we want to be grinding forevermore for tech II copies or will we progress to the next stage and seed tech II again for it to become the norm?
I for one am against the grind, not only as a holder but as someone who has seen the boredom of invention, you must have already offloaded your prints and shifted into the popular vote fold out of convenience, or a longstanding forum poster such as yourself would see by now that the supposed ill effect of the tech II BPOs are all whines of newer pilots, who think the BPOs are what stands between them and untold riches as they seem to lack information in the department of static moon income.
That is what needs to be made finite, moon caches, not tech II BPOs. Full seed ahead on those, turn faucet off on the reactions tap.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |

Terrigal
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Posted - 2009.07.15 04:16:00 -
[54]
Any one seen a COVETOR BPO on the market lately ? or procurer I cant find one. so it seems the T1 BPO markets broken too.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.15 04:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Terrigal Any one seen a COVETOR BPO on the market lately ? or procurer I cant find one. so it seems the T1 BPO markets broken too.
go to ore space
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.15 04:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: voogru Also, if you think removing T2 bpos will increase invention profits, you are mistaken. Look at the items FOR WHICH NO T2 BPOS exist.
Items for which no T2 BPOs exist have a better invention success rate than items for which a T2 BPO exists. Hyenas are easy to invent. Cheetahs, not so easy; it's about 1/2 the success rate compared to Hyenas.
Actually, they have exactly the same invention chance. I don't know where you got that wrong idea from.
Quote: Maybe they've rebalanced that since last year, but my inventor saw that sort of disparity when he invented EAS, Covert Ops, and Command Ships right after invention was introduced. Command Ships are hard to invent. Really hard.
There are only THREE sets of SHIP invention chances. All ships in those categories have exactly the same base invention chances (i.e. before decryptors and assuming same relevant skill levels).
With all L1 skills Frigates & Destroyers & Freighters & Skiff : ~32% Cruisers & Industrials & Mackinaw & Hulk : ~26% Battlecruisers & Battleships : ~21%
With all L4 skills Frigates & Destroyers & Freighters & Skiff : ~36% Cruisers & Industrials & Mackinaw & Hulk : ~30% Battlecruisers & Battleships : ~24%
With all L5 skills Frigates & Destroyers & Freighters & Skiff : ~38% Cruisers & Industrials & Mackinaw & Hulk : ~32% Battlecruisers & Battleships : ~25%
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.15 05:02:00 -
[57]
Also, you don't need to remove T2 BPOs nor convert T2 BPOs into limited-run copies. All you have to do is radically boost invention effectiveness.
Imagine what if base invention chance with the best chance-boosting decryptor and all L5 skills would be 100% for battlecruisers and battleships. Imagine what if equivalent "above 100%" invention chance would translate into additional runs on invented blueprints. Imagine what if T1 BPC ME/PE levels would affect T2 BPC ME/PE levels.
Yeah, T2 BPOs would basically become next to worthless without having to bother removing them. Oh, and T2 prices would fall across the board from BOTH significantly decreased invention "overhead" costs, but also from (initially, at least) lower T2 component demand levels (since, hey, better ME means less materials needed). Sure, the demand for T2 components would rise as T2 gets cheaper and more people use it, but final T2 prices would be noticeably lower (then they'll start climbing again because more and more people become capable of using more and more T2).
The next step would be (obviously) to also improve alchemy heavily, so that it uses currently "useless" materials (think atmospheric gasses and evaporite deposits) to generate the "in-demand" T2 components.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |

Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 05:16:00 -
[58]
Guess what: Without these bpo's, I have to pay more for my ships. I don't want the market to rise. **** off. --
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.07.15 05:27:00 -
[59]
Back in the good old days, the lottery was indeed a static income, but now the t2 market is so dynamic that its a genuine skill just to make any damn money from it at all.
My hats off to everyone who works invention and makes iskies out of it. I lack the patience.
If T2 BPOs were a problem, then the market would have happily screwed invention into the ground. The BPO holders would have cut prices to below where invention was profitable, then kept making their money. As it stands, BPOs are just another way to make t2, and unless your a raving psychotic or have VERY expensive tastes in toilet tissue, you just wouldn't bother buying them.
The same as with the t1 market, just about everything slowly grinds its way down to a tiny profit margin, with the obvious moon-mini bottleneck.
Anyone remember when t2 cap chargers fetched a healthy 20mil each ?
As things stand, all is well. At least compared to that.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.07.15 05:47:00 -
[60]
Edited by: voogru on 15/07/2009 05:54:43
Originally by: Akita T Also, you don't need to remove T2 BPOs nor convert T2 BPOs into limited-run copies. All you have to do is radically boost invention effectiveness.
Imagine what if base invention chance with the best chance-boosting decryptor and all L5 skills would be 100% for battlecruisers and battleships. Imagine what if equivalent "above 100%" invention chance would translate into additional runs on invented blueprints. Imagine what if T1 BPC ME/PE levels would affect T2 BPC ME/PE levels.
I think you had something funny in your lunch.
Let me take a quick look at the T2 market history...
2007: Cap Recharger II's cost 20,000,000 ISK roughly. 2009: Cap Recharger II's cost 750,000 ISK roughly. Price reduction: 96.25%
And this happened across the board with every T2 item.
This just in, INVENTION WORKS.
You want more profitable invention? Restrict it to low-sec POS only. Then it'll be more profitable. And it would improve low-sec as well.
Before invention we had:
Wah wah, T2 prices are too high!!! We're spending too much ISK to fit our ships! Wah Wah. Nerf T2 BPO owners!
And now...
Wah wah, T2 invention isn't profitable, we're not making any money competing with T2 BPO owners! Wah Wah. Nerf T2 BPO owners!
The only way to make invention more profitable is more risk. If it's easy to do and anybody can do it, guess what, everybody does it. And the only people who can move their stock are the people who sell their wares for less than what it cost them to build it. Then they kind of wonder why they need to buy ISK with GTC's every week, so they blame it on the T2 BPO owners undercutting them when chances are it's other inventers undercutting them.
Removing T2 BPO's won't accomplish anything but making everybody who actually worked for their T2 BPO's to quit. Invention nerfed the prices to where they are down to earth and no longer does it cost 350 million ISK to outfit a ship with Tech 2 toys.
T2 BPO's are a very small amount of T2 production and as the owners of these BPO's either sell them to the highest bidder or quit, eventually the BPO's will be out of the game or at the very least have little impact on the market.
The illusion that all of a sudden invention would be profitable if there wasnÆt these big bad T2 BPO owners around undercutting inventers is so stupid I don't know what to think other than the fact that these players are just absolutely plain jealous. I got TWO BPOÆs via lottery, 200mm Reinforced Armor Plates II, and a precision cruise missile BPO. The rest of the BPOÆs I have, I had to work for and raise the ISK to buy them at outrageous prices. ItÆll be years before I break even on the prints by producing off of them and people still want me to be nerfed even more because THEY canÆt figure out how to use their head to profit from T2.
The only thing they can think of doing is inventing stuff and then trying to sell the stuff in Jita and if they fail itÆs all because of those damn T2 BPO owners!!!
You want to whine about something thatÆs actually broken, whine about R64 moons never running out of resources and being held by one or two groups of people.
Edit: Can someone please tell me where I can find some whines that Tech 2 items are still too expensive?
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