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Evelgrivion
Ignatium. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.07.14 22:13:00 -
[1]
TLDR: Needs more neurovisual input matrix!
Back when Apocrypha 1.3 was about to be deployed, T3 producers got the joyous news of easier blueprint production and increased drop rates. While it has indeed been made simple to acquire large numbers of runs of T3 equipment, several modules are in such low demand that if you get the BPC, money can only be lost if you produce the item thanks to the high cost of one component.
Neurovisual Input Matrixes have theoretically had their drop rates increased, but if you looked at the markets, you would find that hard to believe. Two days after the patch came out, Neurovisual input matrixes dropped to around 2 million ISK. Since then, they have regained all of their previous cost and can now be purchased for the low low price of 7.7 million. Market forces at work or market manipulators at work? Who knows, but it is apparent that these mods are far too uncommon.
47 million ISK of any electronics, offensive, etc subsystem is going to be in Neurovisual Input Matrixes. Everything else put together on an electronics subsystem sits at 3 million ISK.
CCP: Please increase the drop rate of neurovisual input matrixes! Tech 3 will never be affordable unless they become far, far more common than they are now.
PS: it would be nice if we could pick what subsystems we could reverse engineer; some of them are just not worth having.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.14 22:32:00 -
[2]
With respect to producing subsystems that you don't want- is it easier/cheaper to sell them or simply reprocess them and get the materials back for future production attempts?
As for the NIMs, I agree completely. They are horribly out of balance when compared to the rest of the material requirements.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Evelgrivion
Ignatium. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.07.14 22:51:00 -
[3]
Originally by: murder one With respect to producing subsystems that you don't want- is it easier/cheaper to sell them or simply reprocess them and get the materials back for future production attempts?
As for the NIMs, I agree completely. They are horribly out of balance when compared to the rest of the material requirements.
You can't reprocess Tech 3 subsystems or hulls.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.14 23:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: murder one With respect to producing subsystems that you don't want- is it easier/cheaper to sell them or simply reprocess them and get the materials back for future production attempts?
As for the NIMs, I agree completely. They are horribly out of balance when compared to the rest of the material requirements.
You can't reprocess Tech 3 subsystems or hulls.
Allllrighty then! *goes back to pirating and keeps his nose out of industry* lol.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Armoured C
Gallente Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:22:00 -
[5]
sell them ?
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Anslo
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:51:00 -
[6]
Hey atleast all of us aren't jerks about it. I just sell them, never put up sell orders. Buy orders usually sit around 3.5mil to 5mil or so, and i sell then no questions asked...your welcome? >.>
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Larofeticus
Tenacious Tendencies
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Posted - 2009.07.15 05:58:00 -
[7]
Demanding more NIM's is a shortsighted solution; if they get dropped more then a different single piece of salvage will be the bottleneck, and eventually it will be 80% of the cost of every T3 ship.
The main reason why T3 component prices aren't interesting is because regardless of race or variety of subsystem, every single component has identacle construction requirments to every other component in it's class.
When you're market optimization only has one pattern to maximize, then only a fool would be surprised when one bottleneck completely overpowers everything else.
Look at rigs; sure there are a few pieces that are worthless, but then there is a wide variety of stable prices for most salvage. That is because different kinds of rigs use different kinds of salvage! If every single rig had the exact same build requirments (like T3 does) then a single kind of salvage would be the bottleneck (like T3 does) and every other piece of salvage would become worthless (like T3 does).
A simple solution: 1. Allow reverse engineering to choose which subsystem to try for. 2. Different subsystems in the same class have different material requirments, intentionally chosen so a different piece of salvage is the bottleneck for each one when compared to drop rates.
This will produce a market where the demand for specific subsystems with respect to one another is what determines the price of salvage, and that variation in demand/usefulness will translate into an interesting variety of salvage prices. I.E. the most useful subsystem may sell for 200m, and the next one 150m, and the bottom ones could be 20-30m, but relative to supply of salvage and demand for systems, they are all profitable. A consumer will have the option of all the best subsystems for a high price, or to make due with the bargain version for a fraction of the cost.
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Amitious Turkey
Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.15 06:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Larofeticus Demanding more NIM's is a shortsighted solution; if they get dropped more then a different single piece of salvage will be the bottleneck, and eventually it will be 80% of the cost of every T3 ship.
The main reason why T3 component prices aren't interesting is because regardless of race or variety of subsystem, every single component has identacle construction requirments to every other component in it's class.
When you're market optimization only has one pattern to maximize, then only a fool would be surprised when one bottleneck completely overpowers everything else.
Look at rigs; sure there are a few pieces that are worthless, but then there is a wide variety of stable prices for most salvage. That is because different kinds of rigs use different kinds of salvage! If every single rig had the exact same build requirments (like T3 does) then a single kind of salvage would be the bottleneck (like T3 does) and every other piece of salvage would become worthless (like T3 does).
A simple solution: 1. Allow reverse engineering to choose which subsystem to try for. 2. Different subsystems in the same class have different material requirments, intentionally chosen so a different piece of salvage is the bottleneck for each one when compared to drop rates.
This will produce a market where the demand for specific subsystems with respect to one another is what determines the price of salvage, and that variation in demand/usefulness will translate into an interesting variety of salvage prices. I.E. the most useful subsystem may sell for 200m, and the next one 150m, and the bottom ones could be 20-30m, but relative to supply of salvage and demand for systems, they are all profitable. A consumer will have the option of all the best subsystems for a high price, or to make due with the bargain version for a fraction of the cost.
This!
My sig was fail, but now it isn't.
Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3
GO NAVIGATOR <3 |
Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.07.15 06:38:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Arushia on 15/07/2009 06:39:21
Originally by: Larofeticus
A simple solution: 1. Allow reverse engineering to choose which subsystem to try for. 2. Different subsystems in the same class have different material requirments, intentionally chosen so a different piece of salvage is the bottleneck for each one when compared to drop rates.
So say we all!
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.15 07:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Larofeticus Demanding more NIM's is a shortsighted solution; if they get dropped more then a different single piece of salvage will be the bottleneck, and eventually it will be 80% of the cost of every T3 ship.
Except if you *LE GASP* balance the drop rates of all single pieces of salvage to be in line with the NEEDS for that piece of salvage, in which case, none of them would be a bottleneck at all in the first place... salvage itself becomes ONE of the bottlenecks, not any one INDIVIDUAL piece of salvage.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.07.15 08:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T
Except if you *LE GASP* balance the drop rates of all single pieces of salvage to be in line with the NEEDS for that piece of salvage, in which case, none of them would be a bottleneck at all in the first place... salvage itself becomes ONE of the bottlenecks, not any one INDIVIDUAL piece of salvage.
This has issues: 1) Unless all subsystems are perfectly ballanced, it still makes some of them not cheap but useless (including useless waste of dev time). 2) It is still easy to artificially choke the whole production by market manipulation of *any* *single* one of that salvage.
I wonder what CCP economist input was on this and why they decided the way they decided.
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2009.07.15 09:56:00 -
[12]
Moved to " Features and Ideas Discussion".
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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5pinDizzy
Amarr SMS Fleet Services
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:50:00 -
[13]
For saying NIM's had their drop rate increased things are weird, I for one have found a considerable decrease in them and they are gradually getting more expensive, which is good for a seller like myself. :)
So much for the wait and see approach.
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