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Roger Dailly
Gallente New Eden Network Solutions
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Posted - 2009.07.19 02:37:00 -
[1]
I'm wondering about getting both of these ships. My questions are:
1. Are they capable of completing lvl 3 missions with relative ease?
2. If so, could they even be pushed to lvl 4?
3. Do they count as cruisers for the purposes of acceleration gates?
4. Would I be better off spending my isk on something else?
Thanks in advance
-Rog
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.19 02:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 19/07/2009 02:40:55
- Yes
- Probably
- Yes, because they are cruisers
- Yes, a battlecruiser or battleship
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Yoinkerman
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Posted - 2009.07.19 02:42:00 -
[3]
I'd only really use a navy caracal if you wanted to do the top cruiser only exploration sites.
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Citlalli
Malus Factum
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Posted - 2009.07.19 03:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Citlalli on 19/07/2009 03:05:59 I hate to just give this kind of response, but in almost all circumstances a Tech 2 cruiser is going to perform better than a faction cruiser.
An Ishtar can easily run any level 3, or 4, or exploration site you can throw at it - especially if you fit it to tank against a specific rat's damage type.
Same thing goes for a Zealot/Sac, a Cerberus or an Onyx, or a Vagabond.
And, honestly, Tech 2 cruisers cost only marginally more than most faction cruisers (take the Navy Omen versus the Zealot, for example).
EDIT: One more point -- HAC's (and all Tech 2 cruisers) don't necessarily fit into acceleration gates that allow only cruisers. But, honestly, in my experience, if a given acceleration gate only allows Tech 1 cruisers, you can fairly easily complete it without having to buy a faction cruiser, assuming you have a decent fit.
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abrasive soap
Caldari Corporation 12345 Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Citlalli Edited by: Citlalli on 19/07/2009 03:05:59 I hate to just give this kind of response, but in almost all circumstances a Tech 2 cruiser is going to perform better than a faction cruiser.
An Ishtar can easily run any level 3, or 4, or exploration site you can throw at it - especially if you fit it to tank against a specific rat's damage type.
Same thing goes for a Zealot/Sac, a Cerberus or an Onyx, or a Vagabond.
And, honestly, Tech 2 cruisers cost only marginally more than most faction cruisers (take the Navy Omen versus the Zealot, for example).
EDIT: One more point -- HAC's (and all Tech 2 cruisers) don't necessarily fit into acceleration gates that allow only cruisers. But, honestly, in my experience, if a given acceleration gate only allows Tech 1 cruisers, you can fairly easily complete it without having to buy a faction cruiser, assuming you have a decent fit.
the navy omen is so different from the zealot that this doesn't apply
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.07.19 04:53:00 -
[6]
1. Yes. I have used both the Navy Omen and the Navy Caracal to do Level 3s. The Navy Omen is a very nice ship. With that said, the Harbinger and Drake are better and cheaper.
2. I would use the Navy Caracal for DPS support (and have), but the range on turret-based cruisers is too short to be very effective in most Level 4s.
3. Yes.
4. Yes. Get a tier 2 BC for Level 3s. Or a BS for Level 4s.
Only reason to use a faction cruiser is if you are doing cosmos missions or exploration where you want a premium T1 cruiser to get through the gates. They are substantially better than their normal T1 counterpart.
...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.07.19 08:01:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 19/07/2009 08:01:32
Originally by: Roger Dailly I'm wondering about getting both of these ships. My questions are:
1. Are they capable of completing lvl 3 missions with relative ease?
2. If so, could they even be pushed to lvl 4?
3. Do they count as cruisers for the purposes of acceleration gates?
4. Would I be better off spending my isk on something else?
Thanks in advance
-Rog
1) quite possibly.
2) probably, but not cheaply. They don't tank that well (unlike HACs in general), so to do them solo you'd probably need to fit a deadspace tank.
3) they're technically T1, so I assume they count as normal T1 cruisers.
4) Yes, a BC will do the job cheaper in L3s, and a BS is more suitable for L4s.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.19 09:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 19/07/2009 09:44:31
Can only speak for the navy caracal but:
1) yes 2) yes 3) yes 4) depends
The main advantage of the navy ships is speed and agility so if you're running high sec missions there's not much point. I use mine for low sec because it's hard to catch on gates and the speed / range tank means you are hard for a cov ops to get a warpin on as you should be constantly moving and using all of your 100 km range if you want to do lvl 4's.
As always in low sec use the d-scanner, keep moving and clutter up the warp in point as much as possible (drop a can when you first enter to mark the right spot).
[Caracal Navy Issue, pve] Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Invulnerability Field II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Hobgoblin II x3 _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.19 09:56:00 -
[9]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 19/07/2009 09:57:10
Originally by: abrasive soap
Originally by: Citlalli Edited by: Citlalli on 19/07/2009 03:05:59 I hate to just give this kind of response, but in almost all circumstances a Tech 2 cruiser is going to perform better than a faction cruiser.
An Ishtar can easily run any level 3, or 4, or exploration site you can throw at it - especially if you fit it to tank against a specific rat's damage type.
Same thing goes for a Zealot/Sac, a Cerberus or an Onyx, or a Vagabond.
And, honestly, Tech 2 cruisers cost only marginally more than most faction cruisers (take the Navy Omen versus the Zealot, for example).
EDIT: One more point -- HAC's (and all Tech 2 cruisers) don't necessarily fit into acceleration gates that allow only cruisers. But, honestly, in my experience, if a given acceleration gate only allows Tech 1 cruisers, you can fairly easily complete it without having to buy a faction cruiser, assuming you have a decent fit.
the navy omen is so different from the zealot that this doesn't apply
Same is true of the Navy Caracal. I fly both that and the Cerb on different occasions. The Navy Caracal is a very credible ship.
And to answer the op - you can do level 3s in a T1 cruiser, so it's fine in a faction cruiser. I wouldn't say L4s would be viable - there's just too much DPS flying around.
They count as T1 for purposes of acceleration gates (e.g. in factional warfare).
Your money would probably be better spend on a BC.
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steveid
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.07.19 10:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: yani dumyat Edited by: yani dumyat on 19/07/2009 09:44:31
Can only speak for the navy caracal but:
1) yes 2) yes 3) yes 4) depends
The main advantage of the navy ships is speed and agility so if you're running high sec missions there's not much point. I use mine for low sec because it's hard to catch on gates and the speed / range tank means you are hard for a cov ops to get a warpin on as you should be constantly moving and using all of your 100 km range if you want to do lvl 4's.
As always in low sec use the d-scanner, keep moving and clutter up the warp in point as much as possible (drop a can when you first enter to mark the right spot).
[Caracal Navy Issue, pve] Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Invulnerability Field II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Hobgoblin II x3
the question tho is why in gods name would you spend this amount of money on a damn caracal.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Lollipops for Rancors
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Posted - 2009.07.19 11:37:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 19/07/2009 11:38:46 Because you have the isk and the ship is pretty expensive to start off with so deserves some pimping :D
I have a Navy Omen which I picked up for grinding my way up to but not including L4s.
a) Can do pretty well in L1s due to 5 T2 light scout drones, if your impatient you can drop a Cap Recharger for a sensor booster to speed up lock times. b) Melts L2s. c) A touch less DPS than a Harbie but shortened travelling times and greater agility make up for this for in L3s.
I wouldn't bother with it in L4s though.
The convenience of being able to move a single ship with all the tools needed from agent to agent is really nice.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.19 14:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: steveid
the question tho is why in gods name would you spend this amount of money on a damn caracal.
It does does 456 DPS at 100km and has the align time of a kestrel. Unless you've trained HAC's 5 then the CNI does more DPS than a cerb (which incidentally handles like a brick).
If you are an outlaw or simply want the higher rewards of low sec agents then a high DPS ship that's hard to catch in gate camps will save you a lot of money.
Originally by: James Lyrus
I wouldn't say L4s would be viable - there's just too much DPS flying around.
Only true for missions with lots of small ships like buzz kill. The trick is to have enough buffer to get out to range and then rep up while spamming missiles from 100km or more, if you try and use a fully active tank or switch your afterburner off then yes you will die. _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.07.19 14:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: yani dumyat Only true for missions with lots of small ships like buzz kill. The trick is to have enough buffer to get out to range and then rep up while spamming missiles from 100km or more, if you try and use a fully active tank or switch your afterburner off then yes you will die.
This is, quite possibly, the least efficient way to run L 4 missions.
...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
RavenPaine
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Posted - 2009.07.19 20:12:00 -
[14]
For the price of those twp ships: you can buy 5 drakes and fit them out :) and have a fleet of lvl 3/4 mission runners
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